Possible iron housing combo?
12-29-11, 12:45 AM
#1
Possible iron housing combo?
The reason behind this question is to find a use for S4-S5 N/A irons..If I crack an iron they are plentiful...
The end result will be a doweled, studded and forced induction engine via Rotrex, scalloped rotors with Goopy apex seals, ramped sleeves with sides cut down, MS, Full Function Engineering Crank Trigger, E85, light flywheel.....With a thick plate bottom for strength with possible dry sump...and other go fast things.
Parts to be used in question.
S4 or S5 N/A front and rear irons
70's 13B tall port center iron
70's 13B rotor housings.
Only because the housings I already have are mint. I can machine groves in other housing if needed.
1-What im looking for is to see if someone has ever doubled up coolant seals with any success?
2-Do the the seals line up pre86 post86?
3-Do you think or know if the coolant will spew between them even with hylomar?
4-Do you think it's possible to get a double thick seal?
5-The other thing i was thinking and have seen talked about was using something like JB weld to fill the coolant grove in the S4-S5 irons. Then have them lapped....Then if the seal lip in the iron breaks away as some do, it shouldn't effect it....... because we already know seals in the rotor housings is the best route.
Im sure this has been talked about before but i couldn't find anything. Just looking to see if anyone has ever tried these things.
It's going into my RX-4 with a dog box.
The end result will be a doweled, studded and forced induction engine via Rotrex, scalloped rotors with Goopy apex seals, ramped sleeves with sides cut down, MS, Full Function Engineering Crank Trigger, E85, light flywheel.....With a thick plate bottom for strength with possible dry sump...and other go fast things.
Parts to be used in question.
S4 or S5 N/A front and rear irons
70's 13B tall port center iron
70's 13B rotor housings.
Only because the housings I already have are mint. I can machine groves in other housing if needed.
1-What im looking for is to see if someone has ever doubled up coolant seals with any success?
2-Do the the seals line up pre86 post86?
3-Do you think or know if the coolant will spew between them even with hylomar?
4-Do you think it's possible to get a double thick seal?
5-The other thing i was thinking and have seen talked about was using something like JB weld to fill the coolant grove in the S4-S5 irons. Then have them lapped....Then if the seal lip in the iron breaks away as some do, it shouldn't effect it....... because we already know seals in the rotor housings is the best route.
Im sure this has been talked about before but i couldn't find anything. Just looking to see if anyone has ever tried these things.
It's going into my RX-4 with a dog box.
12-29-11, 02:38 AM
#2
Not sure how helpful this will be, but I briefly looked into doubling up seals and decided not to. Some racers do it, and due to typical racing, the engines are torn down often so no long term data is available as far as I know.
One option I considered was to use some devcon in the iron grooves and go with 85 and older coolant seals in the rotor housings. However I never figured out how well such a small amount would hold up over time as most times devcon is used, it's used to fill intake ports when going peripheral, which is a pretty large slug of the stuff. Not sure how well a long sliver of it would work out as putties like that tend to be strong only when there's a lot of it. A small piece can easily be snapped as easy as dry spaghetti or old hard OMP lines.
One option I considered was to use some devcon in the iron grooves and go with 85 and older coolant seals in the rotor housings. However I never figured out how well such a small amount would hold up over time as most times devcon is used, it's used to fill intake ports when going peripheral, which is a pretty large slug of the stuff. Not sure how well a long sliver of it would work out as putties like that tend to be strong only when there's a lot of it. A small piece can easily be snapped as easy as dry spaghetti or old hard OMP lines.
12-30-11, 02:13 PM
#4
If you get a GSL-SE front plate, you'll need an 85 or older oil pump + two sprockets and chain set. Your stuff from the 70s will suffice.
Don't use the 70s oil pump. Get one from any beehive 12A or any GSL-SE (there is also RE-SI and late model R5 which had the big pump). Take out a gear and measure it. Should be 17 or 17.5mm. The one to avoid is the 12mm.
There is also the rare 74-75 pump that is 15mm, but they're still kinda small and the 17.5 is easier to find. You can get a hardened 17.5 from Mazdatrix.
Don't use the 70s oil pump. Get one from any beehive 12A or any GSL-SE (there is also RE-SI and late model R5 which had the big pump). Take out a gear and measure it. Should be 17 or 17.5mm. The one to avoid is the 12mm.
There is also the rare 74-75 pump that is 15mm, but they're still kinda small and the 17.5 is easier to find. You can get a hardened 17.5 from Mazdatrix.
12-30-11, 02:21 PM
#5
BTW:
I have GSLSE front and rear sideplate
Both $206.00 shipped
Can even lap them 1st if you desire..
Both sideplates sre in excellent condition
pulled from a low mile JSpec Cosmo Super injection longblock..
Could also include the Oil pump from that same engine for free with the sideplates..
I have GSLSE front and rear sideplate
Both $206.00 shipped
Can even lap them 1st if you desire..
Both sideplates sre in excellent condition
pulled from a low mile JSpec Cosmo Super injection longblock..
Could also include the Oil pump from that same engine for free with the sideplates..
12-30-11, 02:44 PM
#6
I guess you missed the point of my question.
Yes I know GSL-SE irons do not have the coolant groove in them,but they are not plentiful.
If I use S4 S5 irons that would give me a upgraded oil pump also...I said also im thinking of doing a dry sump setup so oil flow is not really my concern in this thread.
Im not new to the game. Iv been reading this site since 2002 and have been into RX-7's before that.
I looking for someone that may have tried this combo.
Jeff I agree with about the devcon idea that stuff is kind of like a fiberglass resin. JB weld would actually give a solid base but in not sure how well it would hold with constant heating cooling...would it crumble?
On a side note Japan2LA can you source some fender mount mirrors for a RX4?
Japan2LA I will keep you in mind about the GSL-SE irons.^^^
Yes I know GSL-SE irons do not have the coolant groove in them,but they are not plentiful.
If I use S4 S5 irons that would give me a upgraded oil pump also...I said also im thinking of doing a dry sump setup so oil flow is not really my concern in this thread.
Im not new to the game. Iv been reading this site since 2002 and have been into RX-7's before that.
I looking for someone that may have tried this combo.
Jeff I agree with about the devcon idea that stuff is kind of like a fiberglass resin. JB weld would actually give a solid base but in not sure how well it would hold with constant heating cooling...would it crumble?
On a side note Japan2LA can you source some fender mount mirrors for a RX4?
Japan2LA I will keep you in mind about the GSL-SE irons.^^^
12-30-11, 03:00 PM
#7
OEM JDM RX4 mirrors can be had but they are VERY exspensive.
Last NOS set I sway sold for About $600.00 USD
Other option on the S4/S5 front rear sideplate.
Surface grind them down until the O- ring groove is gone..
I have already done this^
Last NOS set I sway sold for About $600.00 USD
Other option on the S4/S5 front rear sideplate.
Surface grind them down until the O- ring groove is gone..
I have already done this^
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12-30-11, 03:23 PM
#8
$600..! I just about spit coffee on my screen...That's ok, I don't really like to look a hondas anyway.
How did that turn out? Not sure if that would be good, it would make the walls thinner and I would have to make a custom spacer. Im not sure if I would go that route just to use the irons but curious...
Can you find the bullet style fender mirrors?
How did that turn out? Not sure if that would be good, it would make the walls thinner and I would have to make a custom spacer. Im not sure if I would go that route just to use the irons but curious...
Can you find the bullet style fender mirrors?
12-31-11, 12:22 PM
#9
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...It's a starting point, the ones in the picture ^^^ have a tall base....
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