My dad thinks rotaries are crap: How to convince him otherwise?
11-18-04, 04:30 AM
#51
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
My parents are at the point where they don't care about what kind of engine the car I buy has any more.
They just want me to stop bugging them about cars, since I won't be home for 8 months.
Doh.
And I'll probably have to pay for it myself, which isn't that big of a deal as long as I have a job.
When the time comes I think the choice between FC and Hachiroku will be a tough one...
The Hachiroku has a back seat plus good gas mileage, while the FC is... hella-fast.
And getting big horsepower is no problem for a car with that comes with a turbo, which I think is sort of like a modular pallete to work with when it comes to upgrades.
(How many people do you think I could carry in the hatchback of an FC? Probably as many as the Hachiroku's rear seat... LOL. I'm from Alabama, so I guess carrying people in parts of cars meant for cargo isn't really that strange... hehe)
They just want me to stop bugging them about cars, since I won't be home for 8 months.
Doh.
And I'll probably have to pay for it myself, which isn't that big of a deal as long as I have a job.
When the time comes I think the choice between FC and Hachiroku will be a tough one...
The Hachiroku has a back seat plus good gas mileage, while the FC is... hella-fast.
And getting big horsepower is no problem for a car with that comes with a turbo, which I think is sort of like a modular pallete to work with when it comes to upgrades.
(How many people do you think I could carry in the hatchback of an FC? Probably as many as the Hachiroku's rear seat... LOL. I'm from Alabama, so I guess carrying people in parts of cars meant for cargo isn't really that strange... hehe)
11-24-04, 02:15 PM
#52
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rotary engiens are bader than normal once, and a rx7 with 140 000km has a lot more unreabilty than a 4 banger with 140 000, and as some one said above all 15 years old cars has unreability and the answare is yeas but the think is how bad and how mutch and ghow long it will be screwed if somthing happens (sry for bad english)
12-07-04, 09:27 AM
#53
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Hmm...
Now it seems that rather than thinking that rotaries are crap, my dad just doesn't like how it takes special mechanics and that there's no rotary mechanics around.
I assume the local Mazda dealers work on rotaries, seeing as how they sell the RX-8 (my dad didn't know they had a new rotary-powered car until a while ago).
I tell him I'd work on it myself, and then he brings up that I've never worked on a car, and that I never helped him work on cars when I was a kid.
But that's because I didn't care abouts cars until like two years ago! (Wait, I didn't already say that, did I? Or am I just confusing what I've already said on the phone with what I've said on the MB... lol)
I'm fairly mechanically inclined...just no experience working on cars.
All of his friends who know I want a 7 think that his son is crazy for wanting a rotary... eheheh...
Now it seems that rather than thinking that rotaries are crap, my dad just doesn't like how it takes special mechanics and that there's no rotary mechanics around.
I assume the local Mazda dealers work on rotaries, seeing as how they sell the RX-8 (my dad didn't know they had a new rotary-powered car until a while ago).
I tell him I'd work on it myself, and then he brings up that I've never worked on a car, and that I never helped him work on cars when I was a kid.
But that's because I didn't care abouts cars until like two years ago! (Wait, I didn't already say that, did I? Or am I just confusing what I've already said on the phone with what I've said on the MB... lol)
I'm fairly mechanically inclined...just no experience working on cars.
All of his friends who know I want a 7 think that his son is crazy for wanting a rotary... eheheh...
Last edited by Valkyrie; 12-07-04 at 09:29 AM.
12-07-04, 04:48 PM
#54
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If you want first hand experience with an FC, find someone who has one, and if they are modding it, or maintaining it, offer to help. This is how I got started on the FC. I worked on my friend's 10th ae, helped him put the TO4S on, make oil lines. I offered to change the oil on that car, and did just about everything he did on it. I really liked the car not because it was fast, and at one time I thought it was ugly as sin. The more time I spent working with it, I grew to love it and wanted one of my own.
I also enjoyed the ease of working on it. Once you simplify the vacuum hoses, and some other things, the car is easy to tear apart in a matter of minutes, to a couple of hours for most things you need to do to it. (as long as you have the proper tools, and patience). I don't know of too many other cars that seem laid out as simplistically as the FC. Other than maybe some huge *** muscle car like a 69 charger.
Its your decision, and if your using your own money, get whatever floats your boat. Just expect I told you so, as soon as something goes wrong on it, or as soon as you start sinking cash into it. I get that a lot from my dad, but I don't care, its what I wanted.
I also enjoyed the ease of working on it. Once you simplify the vacuum hoses, and some other things, the car is easy to tear apart in a matter of minutes, to a couple of hours for most things you need to do to it. (as long as you have the proper tools, and patience). I don't know of too many other cars that seem laid out as simplistically as the FC. Other than maybe some huge *** muscle car like a 69 charger.
Its your decision, and if your using your own money, get whatever floats your boat. Just expect I told you so, as soon as something goes wrong on it, or as soon as you start sinking cash into it. I get that a lot from my dad, but I don't care, its what I wanted.
12-07-04, 06:05 PM
#55
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Don't know anyone with an FC.
One more question: I keep reading that RX-7 parts in general are expensive since they don't make them any more...
Or are they just plain expensive?
Does Mazda still make the things that commonly need to be replaced (ie, TPS, etc...), do they cost more than they would for a newer car still in production?
Are they available at autoparts store or dealerships (Mazda ones naturally), even if they rarely see RX-7 owners?
And for things like interior parts, etc, do they make them, or do I have to get lucky with a wrecker?
One more question: I keep reading that RX-7 parts in general are expensive since they don't make them any more...
Or are they just plain expensive?
Does Mazda still make the things that commonly need to be replaced (ie, TPS, etc...), do they cost more than they would for a newer car still in production?
Are they available at autoparts store or dealerships (Mazda ones naturally), even if they rarely see RX-7 owners?
And for things like interior parts, etc, do they make them, or do I have to get lucky with a wrecker?
rx7s are the Bomb no matter what they say
12-07-04, 08:45 PM
#57
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I have an 86 GXL with 192,000 miles. I bought it at 185,000 miles for $500. She had a water pump problem. I had one in the garage. I fixed it, now I have a running beater car. 7,000 miles in two months is a damn good best bang for your buck for reliability out of $500.
12-08-04, 01:23 AM
#59
King of the Loop
Next time your father tells you someone told him rotarys were pieces of ****, ask them if the person ever owned or drove a rotary. I laugh my insides off every day when my group of friends (honda owners) joke on my car. Not one of them saw a rotary engine till last week when I showed them and they still havent seen it run. All they talk about is reliability, and the fact that my fresh rebuild isnt running right (normal) is their evidence. When ti comes to rotary you have to have some strong will, because absolutely everyone is gonna look to bring you down on it. I have had several mechanics laugh in my face when i told them I had a rotary yet not one of them ever drove one, my favorite response was "theyre crap, why would i want to drive one". Most people are completely ignorant when it comes to rotary and think just because its not widely implimented it must be a bad design. Stick to your guns and youll be glad you did.
12-08-04, 04:22 AM
#60
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
It's not just the rotary getting the hate, it's the RX-7 all together. I don't think the guy ever owned one, but he is still very experienced in the car business (he owned a Toyota dealership for decades). I'm pretty sure that overall, he thinks they're bad cars.
Either they'll crack and help me buy one or I'll just have to save up the money after I get back. I was sorta hoping for one to be in the driveway by the time I got home... lol. I'd probably be so anxious to see it and drive it that I wouldn't be able to concentrate on studying (as if I did anyway) if I they actually got it for me.
I'd prefer to buy it myself, except I don't have that kind of money right now (all the money I earned this summer will be gone within a few more months). I also won't have a summer vacation long enough to earn any money this year since I had a 4-month vacation last summer...
I need to get a job here... ehehe... If only the gas station next door was looking for help. Although I know the convenience store across the street is hiring, they probably wouldn't hire me anyway. I wouldn't want to work there since I shop there too much... lol. Feh, if I had a part time job, I could afford to buy a Japanese FC, although it would probably cost me twice as much as it cost to buy to actually own/drive it for a year.
Either they'll crack and help me buy one or I'll just have to save up the money after I get back. I was sorta hoping for one to be in the driveway by the time I got home... lol. I'd probably be so anxious to see it and drive it that I wouldn't be able to concentrate on studying (as if I did anyway) if I they actually got it for me.
I'd prefer to buy it myself, except I don't have that kind of money right now (all the money I earned this summer will be gone within a few more months). I also won't have a summer vacation long enough to earn any money this year since I had a 4-month vacation last summer...
I need to get a job here... ehehe... If only the gas station next door was looking for help. Although I know the convenience store across the street is hiring, they probably wouldn't hire me anyway. I wouldn't want to work there since I shop there too much... lol. Feh, if I had a part time job, I could afford to buy a Japanese FC, although it would probably cost me twice as much as it cost to buy to actually own/drive it for a year.
12-16-04, 02:12 AM
#63
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Ok... more questions.
I seem to read a lot about rotaries taking a apex seal dump or having coolant seals go, etc, long before 100,000 miles, and without overheating, etc...
I'm just curious about how common is it that you would have to rebuild a rotary before it reaches at least 100,000 miles... assuming you don't overheat or break it yourself. Maybe it's just that so many people's problems are concentrated on the board that it makes them seem more unreliable than they are...
I don't want my parents telling me "I told you so" if I buy an FC and it ends up turning into a money pit because of rebuilds or engine replacements.
I seem to read a lot about rotaries taking a apex seal dump or having coolant seals go, etc, long before 100,000 miles, and without overheating, etc...
I'm just curious about how common is it that you would have to rebuild a rotary before it reaches at least 100,000 miles... assuming you don't overheat or break it yourself. Maybe it's just that so many people's problems are concentrated on the board that it makes them seem more unreliable than they are...
I don't want my parents telling me "I told you so" if I buy an FC and it ends up turning into a money pit because of rebuilds or engine replacements.
Last edited by Valkyrie; 12-16-04 at 02:19 AM.
12-16-04, 02:26 AM
#64
The engine can go longer then a piston engine if well maintened. Plus there is nothing wrong with getting a rebuild, you lose some cash, but make the car more valuable and the longer you can have it. That or just take care of the engine in it and make it last as long as possible.
12-16-04, 02:33 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by JagerII
The engine can go longer then a piston engine if well maintened. Plus there is nothing wrong with getting a rebuild, you lose some cash, but make the car more valuable and the longer you can have it. That or just take care of the engine in it and make it last as long as possible.
More factors carry into this theory than this. I have 192,000 miles on a neglected motor. I have proof because I have all the receipts on it from day 1. And I beat the **** out of this NA motor, after a proper warm up.
Oil changes after 8,000 miles.... That's negligence. I just make sure the oil level is full.It's proven in racing that rotaries last longer. The rotary is a high endurance motor. It's design is genious! How is it not reliable?
Last edited by ReZ311; 12-16-04 at 02:36 AM.
12-16-04, 02:37 AM
#66
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Hmm... I still wonder what causes mid-mileage rebuilt engines to go out, though.
I'm not worried about rebuilding an engine. I'm worried about rebuilding it more than every 100,000 miles or so.
And when an apex seal goes, you USUALLY have to replace that rotor housing since it gets shredded, right? Unless you're lucky and the seal doesn't do any damage, that is.
I'm not worried about rebuilding an engine. I'm worried about rebuilding it more than every 100,000 miles or so.
And when an apex seal goes, you USUALLY have to replace that rotor housing since it gets shredded, right? Unless you're lucky and the seal doesn't do any damage, that is.
12-16-04, 02:41 AM
#67
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie
Ok... more questions.
I seem to read a lot about rotaries taking a apex seal dump or having coolant seals go, etc, long before 100,000 miles, and without overheating, etc...
I'm just curious about how common is it that you would have to rebuild a rotary before it reaches at least 100,000 miles... assuming you don't overheat or break it yourself. Maybe it's just that so many people's problems are concentrated on the board that it makes them seem more unreliable than they are...
I don't want my parents telling me "I told you so" if I buy an FC and it ends up turning into a money pit because of rebuilds or engine replacements.
I seem to read a lot about rotaries taking a apex seal dump or having coolant seals go, etc, long before 100,000 miles, and without overheating, etc...
I'm just curious about how common is it that you would have to rebuild a rotary before it reaches at least 100,000 miles... assuming you don't overheat or break it yourself. Maybe it's just that so many people's problems are concentrated on the board that it makes them seem more unreliable than they are...
I don't want my parents telling me "I told you so" if I buy an FC and it ends up turning into a money pit because of rebuilds or engine replacements.
It's uncommon to rebuilt a STOCK rotary under 100K, let alon a GOOD upgraded setup! Jerry rigging modifications, cutting corners, and negligent tuners with inexperience or don't know what they are doing blow these engines.
Your parents will tell you that just to cut you down. A well maintained FC will not let you down. Good luck.
12-16-04, 02:46 AM
#68
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
Thanks. I was just sorta worried since I've heard of apex seals going during normal traffic, with normal boost.
I don't think I'd plan on any higher than 250 HP (rwhp I guess) or so... until I can afford the gas... hehehe (although watching that video with RE Amemiya building a 466 BHP FC, I'm seriously impressed with those kind of numbers).
Now I just have to worry about being able to get one at all... heh.
I don't think I'd plan on any higher than 250 HP (rwhp I guess) or so... until I can afford the gas... hehehe (although watching that video with RE Amemiya building a 466 BHP FC, I'm seriously impressed with those kind of numbers).
Now I just have to worry about being able to get one at all... heh.
12-16-04, 02:47 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie
Hmm... I still wonder what causes mid-mileage rebuilt engines to go out, though.
I'm not worried about rebuilding an engine. I'm worried about rebuilding it more than every 100,000 miles or so.
And when an apex seal goes, you USUALLY have to replace that rotor housing since it gets shredded, right? Unless you're lucky and the seal doesn't do any damage, that is.
I'm not worried about rebuilding an engine. I'm worried about rebuilding it more than every 100,000 miles or so.
And when an apex seal goes, you USUALLY have to replace that rotor housing since it gets shredded, right? Unless you're lucky and the seal doesn't do any damage, that is.
This added will Surely maxx out stock TII injectors at some point. Not upgrading to 680-720cc secondary injectors on a TII will blow your engine on a COLD night. Stock 550s all the way around is simply not enough. Wastegate spike is another, but I won't talk about that.
A FD will die because the motor is under boost ALOT! Unless the FD sees alot of freeway miles. The stock FD radiator should be upgraded if you perform the above mods, and the SMIC heat soaks.. Oh that's great on a modified engine!
If it works, don't **** with it. If it breaks, fix it. Not, if it breaks, **** with it. Then it stays broken!
Leave it stock, maintain it, and it won't break.
12-16-04, 02:49 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by Valkyrie
Thanks. I was just sorta worried since I've heard of apex seals going during normal traffic, with normal boost.
I don't think I'd plan on any higher than 250 HP (rwhp I guess) or so... until I can afford the gas... hehehe (although watching that video with RE Amemiya building a 466 BHP FC, I'm seriously impressed with those kind of numbers).
Now I just have to worry about being able to get one at all... heh.
I don't think I'd plan on any higher than 250 HP (rwhp I guess) or so... until I can afford the gas... hehehe (although watching that video with RE Amemiya building a 466 BHP FC, I'm seriously impressed with those kind of numbers).
Now I just have to worry about being able to get one at all... heh.
466 HP won't see 100K without a problem. Neither will a Turbocharged 450HP V8.
12-16-04, 02:58 AM
#72
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Thread Starter
There's something I've wanted to know about upgraded fuel systems.
If you upgrade the injectors and fuel pump, will it run rich (unless you lean it out with a computer or something, or just have the right amount of boost to keep it in the right AFR) or would the ECU compensate for the higher fuel delivery capacity when the extra fuel is not needed... I figure it would be rich and I think I read that as well... and rich to me = less mileage. heh.
If you upgrade the injectors and fuel pump, will it run rich (unless you lean it out with a computer or something, or just have the right amount of boost to keep it in the right AFR) or would the ECU compensate for the higher fuel delivery capacity when the extra fuel is not needed... I figure it would be rich and I think I read that as well... and rich to me = less mileage. heh.
12-16-04, 11:08 AM
#73
Originally Posted by Valkyrie
There's something I've wanted to know about upgraded fuel systems.
If you upgrade the injectors and fuel pump, will it run rich (unless you lean it out with a computer or something, or just have the right amount of boost to keep it in the right AFR) or would the ECU compensate for the higher fuel delivery capacity when the extra fuel is not needed... I figure it would be rich and I think I read that as well... and rich to me = less mileage. heh.
If you upgrade the injectors and fuel pump, will it run rich (unless you lean it out with a computer or something, or just have the right amount of boost to keep it in the right AFR) or would the ECU compensate for the higher fuel delivery capacity when the extra fuel is not needed... I figure it would be rich and I think I read that as well... and rich to me = less mileage. heh.
2. The problem is that the tock ECU assumes that the car has 4x550cc injectors. The ECU's program is designed to deliver fuel with those injectors in mind. The same pulsewidth on a 720cc injector is quite a bit more fuel.
Generally, people who are doing mild mods that just involve more fuel under boost, just upgrade their secondaries because that is when they need the extra fuel.
12-16-04, 12:01 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by riceH8ter
I'm in the same position as Valkyrie. I live in Oklahoma which is possibly the most barren place to look for a decent deal on an FC and I finally found one that I have a chance to get. But my dad, now realizing that i'm extremely close to getting one has just stated that he's not helping me out at all. Thank god my mom supports my decision to get an FC. I mean Jesus christ I've been debating to myself wether or not to get one for months until I found this board and the vast knowledge available and immediately made up my mind about 2 months ago.
What pisses me off is that he doesn't support the one major decision I've ever made on my own, I've always been like "sure", "I guess", all my life, never really making up my mind on anything and now I am 100% trying to do something and hes against me! What surprises me is his reasons for not wanting me to get the car are the same exact ones Valkyrie's father's are. He even told me that I should get something thats the easiest to work on and he told me about his first car wich was a '60 somthing Chevy and that he could work on almost anything on it, I tried telling him how simple the rotary is but he wouldn't listen.
What pisses me off is that he doesn't support the one major decision I've ever made on my own, I've always been like "sure", "I guess", all my life, never really making up my mind on anything and now I am 100% trying to do something and hes against me! What surprises me is his reasons for not wanting me to get the car are the same exact ones Valkyrie's father's are. He even told me that I should get something thats the easiest to work on and he told me about his first car wich was a '60 somthing Chevy and that he could work on almost anything on it, I tried telling him how simple the rotary is but he wouldn't listen.
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