nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

Quick little background, FD with a TD06 turbo kit. Had approx. 10,000km on it and was sold to someone that didn't know any better. Driving the car, this person decided to see what kind of performance it had not knowing that a vacuum line came off the wastegate. Long story short, lots of boost and engine go boom.

Well, I had bought the car and decided to redo the engine. Had to replace both housings and one rotor. I also had it full bridgeported. Reassembled and tried to get it running today. It started... once... and it became very hard to start after that. Now when I'm cranking it, I get this compression sound back through the intake, when I do get it running, it won't idle and sounds like complete ***. I was wondering what that sound could be??? Could that be the reason why it won't start? I'm also getting alot of black smoke from the exhaust. I'm running stock injector until after I get the engine broke in and a Power FC.

Any thoughts?

zeaone

Fresh motor sounds like no compresson add 1/8 cup of oil down leading plugs also if it starts dont let it idle rev it to 3000 for 1 min or so until everthing seats keep an eye on temp guage give that a whirl let me know how it goes

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

How long did you let it run the first time it started?

Pull and check your spark plugs. If they weren't new when you first started the car, they could be fouled or just coated in assembly lube.

7dust

iTrader: (14)

Sooooo you are running a full bridge on a stock or untuned ecu and wonder why it runs like ***?

Anyhoo - compression back through the intake sounds like a leaky seal.

turbo_dave

iTrader: (50)

if its the stock ecu,maybe the map sensor hose came of somehow,and makes it smoke and rev like ****.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

sorry, i guess i said that wrong. it is stock injectors coupled with a Power FC. not a stock ECU.

yeah, i'm thinking it is a leaky or stuck APEX seal. not sure why it would be stuck, but for trying to get it to run, two sides leaking on the compression "stroke" side would make it run like A$$. i thought about it all night and that is the only thing i can come up with. at first, i thought it just a poor port job, but then it would do it all the time, and not on certain compression stages. well, i'll know soon enough, but it might be a week or two before i know for sure.

thanks for all the inputs. i'll let you know how it turns out.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

does this work? i mean, what are the chances that one seal out of all of them just decides not to seat?

anyway, here is what i did: i had/have the problem narrowed down to the rear rotor. it takes a couple cranks before you can start hearing the noise come back through the intake. i pulled the engine out, removed the rear plate and made sure everything was in it's place and all is well. reassembled the engine and i can crank it over by hand and the noise comes back. while on the stand, i further narrowed it down to the exact seal that it is coming from. but when you rotate the rotors around, i can go through the exhaust port and see that i have plenty of spring pressure on all the seals. with my LIM off, (remember full bridgeport) i can inspect the side seals along with the corner seals and see that they have enough spring pressure. so i'm stumped.

this rotor is used and it came from someone online. now is it possible that a rotor can be "warped or twisted" in that specific area causing my problems? or how about the apex seals. i got these from Atkins rotary and i really liked the design of them. they are the two piece but the nice part is, they didn't have to be glued on the initial installation. installation was a piece of cake.

if anyone knows of or experienced this, please let me know what's up. i'm about fed up with it and ready to go and buy another used engine just to get the car running. any inputs would be very helpful.

-Steve

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Did you check the clearance on the sides of the seal and the corner seal? I had an issue where there wasn't enough clearance and the seal could not move freely. I've also seen rotors get slightly damaged where the corner gets slightly bent in. It doesn't cause the corner seal to have a problem but it can cause the apex seal to get pinched and not have free movement.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

yeah, all the seals were new from Atkins and the side seals had to be sized for their current location. i measured them according to DIY 13b and the maintenance manual i have a copy of.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

i just tore down my engine for a third time and here is what i found:

the rear rotor i used was the one that i bought online from some dude. upon today's inspection, i noticed a fairly good sized gap next to the apex seal. i am guessing that this rotor was originally used in the #1 position and spun the other direction cause the area where the apex seal goes was shaped like a "V". not all the way across, just where all the seals meet up. a feeler gauge inspection went up to .008 inch between the apex seal and the rotor, so i figure that is probably where my issue is. i guess that teaches me to double check used parts.... hehe...

so, needless to say, i'll be searching for a "servicable" FD C-weight rotor.

joeylyrech

iTrader: (11)

motors with a lot of overlap or bridgeported motors have a different sound when turn by hand.You can hear noise coming out of the intake ports

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

yeah, but this is diffinately a compression noise coming from the rear. not all the time, so i figured it wasn't the port job. when cranking the engine, it would sound similar to a piston engine with a valve not seating.

FelixIsGod29X

iTrader: (50)

Always inspect your parts while assembling. Cant always trust others from other states. This is why i prefer waiting till local deals come around. Saves a lot of headaches.

13bhavoc

Hey bro,

Just got your message on facebook (I know I dont check it enough lol), and read your thread. Ill be rebuilding my engine soon, If I have a space "C" weight or suitable weighted rotor, Ill sell it to you. Let me know if you have found a solution by then. Also he is not running stock injectors as well, hard to tell since Japanese tune these things alot more differently than we do, but definately not stock.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

yeah man, they were stock. purple 550 in the pri and red 850 in the sec. that doesn't matter now. i have since went with 850s in the pri and 1300 in the sec. also, since my last post here, i have bought a new rotor from one of the guys here and still ended up with the same issue. this thing is pissen me off. that is why, when i talked to you, i may end up haveing to pull it all apart and put Mazda apex seals in it and not the Atkins. which suxs, cause the Atkins one went in sooo easy. i just can't believe that i have one seal causing me sooo much problems...

right now, i'm just too lazy to even mess with it. it's cold and it has got me disgusted. oh well... i'll figure something out.

urquhartglen

even with one leaking seal shouldnt it still start up???? mine did

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

oh it tries, but with one rotor hitting on all 3 sides and the second only hittin on 1, that gives me reason to believe that this one seal isn't helping much.

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

Well, some good news. I finally ripped it completely down, inspected, double, triple and multiple checked everything. I went ahead and installed some Mazda apex and 2 piece corner seals. Reassembled the engine and it is now running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHQEZap8flM

Now here is what I'm having. I have reset the PFC, entered in my injector sizes (850/1300) and let it run to try and learn. At first, it ran extremely rich, so i cut down the duty cycle to the point where it runs without killing itself and me in the process. It seems to be doing ok to the point where the idle is very irratic. (not the brap brap) monitoring the injector duty cycle, it will go from 5 or more ms (idle up) to 0.0 (idle down), constantly. i've read around and see that people have different settings for their setup, but right now, i just want it to run without the worries of detonating it. i will be driving it for 1000km and switching over to a bigger turbo and getting it tuned.

i guess what i need to know is, what is a good safe setting for injectors and timing so that i can safely drive it. if anyone has an idea or good information for me, please let me know. thanks and i appreciate the help.

-Steve

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

This is how a first start up should go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY1NuGmDm5Y

nipponichi_2000

iTrader: (6)

what is your injector and timing setup? i don't have a Datalogit, but have access to one, so i'll be making changes to get ol girl to run right...

Rx7_Nut13B

iTrader: (1)

I am running 850Pri and 1600sec, Timing at idle 34 advanced @ 1400rpms 0 degrees split around idle

Send me a PM and I will send you the map from my car

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

Why in gods name are you running that engine with no water pump!!!!!? Is there at least water in the engine?