joegallo13b

hey guys, i have an 87 s4 n/a and i need to install a new clutch with a jack jackstands and basic tools also have a friend to help. is this a very difficult job? does the drive shaft have to come out? is the pilot bearing hard to get out and in? does the tranny have to be lowerd? anything that has to be taken out like exhaust drive shaft?

joegallo13b

is this job a piece of cake? basicly just remove the tranny cross member, slave, clutch fork, unbolt the tranny and lower it? i have the FSM

lduley

iTrader: (1)

first off, give us time to respond, not 15 minutes after your first post, SOME of us have lives :P

now, yes driveshaft has to come out, along with your exhaust (depending on how its set up) but most generally to remove your driveshaft, your exhaust needs to be removed, and it makes it 1 less thing that is out of your way.

The transmission does need to be removed, I do not believe there is enough room underneath the car to slide it out've the way enough to service the clutch. Also, if your going to put a clutch kit into it, take the flywheel off and get it resurfaced, now if you only have basic tools, that one will be quite a challenge, now if you have access to air tools, taking the flywheel off should be a breeze...if you have a good set of air tools and a good air compressor lol

invinciblejets

You will need a special tool to remove the pilot bearing tho I've seen people on here improvise.....basic hand tools is a stretch...

scotty R

iTrader: (13)

its pretty simple job that can be done in a days time, youll need a clutch alignment tool for the clutch if you dont want to improvise you can probably rent a pilot bearing removal kit. you might want to go with some new bolts from mazda for the clutch and flywheel, as well a new pilot bearing and seal.

when i did my auto-5 spd swap last year i places a couple 2x10 pieces of wood under my jacks to have the car higher, that was my cheap way of getting the car higher without spending money on new jack stands, that gave me the clearance to drop the tranny down and out of the way and put the new one in. try your best to have a jack ready to drop your tranny down tho.

hope some of this is useful, good luck

joegallo13b

yea very helpful and gave me confidence. want about resurfacing the flywheel, i hope the flywheel wont have to come off.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

The exhaust does NOT need to be removed.

1. Disconnect the battery negative cable.
2. Disconnect the shift surround and the rubber boots.
3. Remove all the engine to trans bolts on the top side
4. Disconnect the slave cylinder soft line from the hard line.
5. Put the car on jack stands as high as you can. Don't use the cheap ones either.
6. Support the flat portion of the trans with a floor jack (i always use a block of wood on the jack)
7. Remove the starter and the hidden engine to trans bolt
8. Remove all the rest of the engine to trans bolts on the bottom side
9. Disconnect the 4 drive shaft bolts from the rear end.
10. You should be able to remove the drive shaft. Have something available for any trans fluid that might come out.
11. Now the harder part - disconnect the trans from the engine. It might take some wiggling.
12. Remove old clutch disc/plate/throwout bearing.
13. Inspect flywheel. If it needs to be removed, use an impact gun with a 54mm socket.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

I should note on #4 that it's easier for me to disconnect the slave cylinder soft line from the hard line, but you must bleed the line after it's put back together. You can also just remove the slave cylinder from the trans and not have to bleed it. I have a hard time removing the two bolts but you might find it easier.

4. Disconnect the slave cylinder soft line from the hard line.

kagoostin

iTrader: (1)

Make sure you lube the pilot bearing and get the oem rubber to cover the bearing. I missed this step and a few weeks later, the bearing seized and basically bypassed the xlutch

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

I hate to revive an old thread, and I've removed push and pull type clutches. I want to focus on #12.

My transmission is still in my car but the engine is out. Am I going to have to pull my transmission down and pull the slave and fork to remove the throwout bearing? That's all that's keeping me from replacing my now freshly rebuilt engine.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

If the trans is still in the car then you can do this:
Disconnect the slave from the Trans,so that the fork will move freely on the input shaft.
You should be able to grab the throw out bearing(from under the car/inside trans front bell housing) and pull it while on the shaft.Then you can take the Throw out OFF and replace it.

One More thing.
You may want to rethink trying to put the Engine in with the trans intact.
**** has to line up "specifically" and putting the input shaft of the trans into the back of the Eshaft (into the pilot bearing) is a Total snot bag.
Really it is not all that more work to pull the trans off,mate the trans.engine/clutch etc all tgether then install as ONE unit.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

NOTE: the reason why I said Disconnect the Slave is so that the Slave doesn't overextend the plunger on it.
If you try to just push the clutch pedal in,you may do just that.So for that reason I suggest you do NOT use the Clutch pedal to move the Clutch fork to get the Throw out bearing off.

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

Thank you styx! I already have the hydraulics apart for that very reason. If mating it in the bay is REALLY that much more work then I'll go ahead with the transmission service I had in the back of my mind. The oil is of unknown age and if I'm in, I'll need to see about a pilot bearing seal since I didn't get one in my Exedy kit. My pilot bearing is good and had nice clean grease on it when I stuck a finger in there. Should I go through the trouble to replace it too?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

generally I like to replace **** ONCE.
If you feel the bearing is in good shape then it's your call.

By the way,this will be the BEST word of advice I can give you.
Get one of those CHEAP fluid transfer Pumps.
Reason being is that you need to put Gear oil in the trans when it is installed.If you try to pump it in without the driveshaft it will be quite the mess.(putting the Driveshaft on the trans will be a bit combersome,so do it after the whole thing is in)
Having the Trans IN and ON the car(driveshaft ON) you can use this pump and transfer from a 4 quart jug to the Tranny case rather easily.I put the hose in the jug,set the jug at the trailing coils,ran a hose to the filler plug and Pump,pump,pump..
I used one like THIS:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIPHON-PUMP-KIT-TRANSFER-WATER-OIL-FUEL-KEROSENE-GAS-FLUID-SYPHON-CHANGE-HOSE-/380792685671?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item58a9034467
for 8 bucks you will thank me!

Just be careful when pumping it as the hoses like to "detach" at the pump..so slow and steady and you are cookin'..

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

I have a hand pump that screws onto the top of the bottle/gallon jug.

I do have a blind hole puller I can try and ****** that pilot bearing with. I'm sure I won't even need to modify it since it has pretty deep teeth on the ends.

Thank you for the clarification Styx. I'll go ahead with my service. I'll drain the transmission first before I pull the driveshaft to minimise the mess. Can I use Lucas Red n Tacky as a grease to put it back together with?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Not sure what you are getting at,.So here is what I do.
I just skim the input shaft for the throw out ,and put a little finger tip load in the pilot bearing,enough to lube the needle bearings on it..
Check the Pivot ball on the trans if you can.(clutch fork balancing point)..dab with grease too.
Remember do not go overboard with grease as you need to keep the clutch clean.

My pilot bearing tool consists of a dremel and a Screwdriver that I honed to get in between the Bearing and shaft.
After trips to Ottawa to borrow one I finally said enough is enough and my success rate IS 100%.
I use a Bit that will make a nice mark lengthwise down the inside of the bearing(after you get the needle assembly out) and then with the screwdriver you put it betweeen the bearing and shaft and Tap,tap...The Bearing is hardened so it will eventually start to fatigue and fold into itself.Needle nose pliers finish it off..Yank..DONE.
skim the hole with grease,put the bearing in and lightly tap..then use a Deep socket the size of the bearing to finish the job.
Remember it is a bearing so don't bash the **** out of it!

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

I was getting that I have an expandable tool that attached to a 5lb slide hammer I have that I can use. Thanks for all the help Styx. I wish guys with your knowledge weren't always 2500mi away from me. Hahah.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I wish all the guys with PARTS were not 2500 miles away!

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

You and me both, brother! I need a 20B in my life.

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

Okay, so I got the engine attached to the transmission but only on the clutch disc splines. It won't go intk the pilot bearing slot. If it goes into the splines and not the pilot then the disc must be out of alignment. I don't understand how the alignment tool doesn't align. Is the skinny part of the tool too long? Do I need to cut some of it off to really get it to sit perfectly straight? I was literally right up against the dowel pins on the engine almost. Felt the splines slide in and hit a wall there. I don't get it.

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

I do want to update and let you guys know that the alignment tool worked out the second try and I nailed it witbout a hitch with the tranny in.

Styx, on an NA transmission, there is no top inspection plate, for future reference.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

BUT you gotta remember ..I am REAL good with a Dremel..lol..so there "could be one"....

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

Hahahah that there could!