How can I make my N/A fc to 200 hp without porting and adding a turbo, NOS, and supercharge?

Thanks

 

you can't really get that type of power out of an NA without bridgeporting, turbo, supercharging or NOS... at least not that I know of. a bridgeport/carborated set up will easily get u 200+HP reliably. I've also heard that NA 13b's can handle NOS like nobody's business (as long as your motor isn't totally screwed).

my NA has straight exhaust, removed air pump and AC, 2in header, intake, 5th and 6th ports wired open (which will only help you in top end- not in bottom end). I'm sitting at roughly 150-160WHP right now with all that.

you can get lightweight flywheel/clutch setup that'll give you some gains by freeing up some resistance in your drivetrain- also u can do an electric fan conversion- which I'm told will give you a 12HP gain, but some peope dispute that. that still won't put you at 200.

anyone let me know if I'm missing anything...

 

IT cars (stock ports, stock intake manifold) are putting down 180-185whp at the upper limit.

EP cars (streetports, modded stock intake manifolds or 38mm? chock carbs) are doing 220+whp spinning 10k+ RPMs.

These both have exhaust that are not street legal. They are both limited on power due to rules, with completely free intake more power could be had. It's hard to give exact numbers since really the only ones pushing these limits are racers governed by class rules and most don't like to give out power numbers.

 

Not much of this is correct.

There are streetported NAs making 200 wheel HP. It's not often it happens, but it does happen. It requires significant attention to detail, careful port work, and a well tuned standalone.

If you are willing to ditch the entire stock intake setup and go with a set of ITBs, short runners and a healthy port then over 200 wheel HP can be achieved. It's going to be at the loss of a lot of low end though, and the mods I mentioned require a standalone.

A carburetor is a step backwards. Always. It's crazy to swap the vehicle to carb unless you are in a racing class that commands it.

Now, would I recommend any of this to the original poster? Probably not. It's a good $3000 project to make a 200 RWHP 13B NA when you include the rebuild and porting, full exhaust, standalone and tuning time. It's going to cost more if you have to pay for some of the work.

Wiring open the aux ports will only hurt you, never help. Wiring them open reduces low end torque by a ridiculous amount and offers no gain up top compared to properly working ports.

 

i had estimated about the same HP number for a bridgeport...
even though i didn't specifically say so, it's assuming that the job was done properly.


This is only something that I heard (at a local [reputable] rotary speed shop here in NC, actually)- i haven't attempted on my own vehicle. they specifically said bridgeporting/caborating a 13b would produce that level of gains. they had a vehicle they set up that way at their shop and it was successful from what they had told me.

i'll have to disagree with you on this one. my 5th and 6th ports are half wired open. i have lost some bottom end, but definately have seen some improvement in top end, which is where my motor ususally stays when drifting, (versus before when the 5th and 6th ports were not opening at all)... I drive/drift this car regularly and at every step of it's tuning and it reacts exactly as i have described. it may not be worth the trouble for some, but for my vehicle this was effective tuning...

 

^^^ Maybe your ports weren't opening at all before?

As far as making 200 without porting/nitrous/forced-induction: Open exhaust with tuned header, super-duper intake setup, standalone ECU, accessories and anything else dragging down the engine removed, custom high compression rotors with race fuel, magic, etc

 

i made 213 all motor with a half bridge terrible tune etc

 

What tune shop?

The one in rock hill? Kannapolis?

I know of one shop that's high as hell and has questionable advice and was told to stay away from them if i can help it. I wish i could remember the name but if i need anything rotary wise in NC, i'd talk to Zac from intense motorsports.

 

this shop is right outside W-S...

they've always done right by me so I have no reason to doubt them, but again, that's why i said "this is what I was told" not "this is the ABSOLUTE truth".

i've pretty much learned that most rotary people still tune their cars a little different. you'll hear people say that the 5th and 6th ports matter- you'll hear some say it doesn't. The same thing with electric fans- some say you get great HP gains, some call bullshit. i just try stuff and if it works for me, I keep it. if not, move onto the next.

 

Porting makes it quite a bit easier to break two hundred. I was stemming off of Mr. Threadstarter's question when I mentioned ye olde magicks.

 

imposible

 

Possibly going with an ITB setup will get you there, depending on what supporting mods you have to the car. But by that time, you've spent so much you should have just turbo'd the car in the first place because you need a full standalone, the ITBs, etc.

 

Wrong. Please quit misleading people.

The auxiliary ports on an NA engine DO matter. The difference between properly working ports, and non-functional ports is definitely more than noticeable.

You will experience NO gains between properly working ports and ports that are wired open. Oh wait, nevermind, you'll lose a lot of low end power. The sleeves are there for a reason. They remain closed when the engine doesn't need the extra oxygen. Upon load, and at a certain rpm range, the sleeves rotate open, allowing the engine to breathe easier, and in turn, produce more power than it would without the auxiliary ports. The only reason you would have ever noticed a difference is if your ports were never opening in the first place. Fix things the right way.

(Also, on the topic of electric fans, they serve little purpose over a functioning stock fan clutch other than to reduce load on the pulley [which the extra strain on the alternator nills out anyway] and to reduce clutter in the engine bay.)

Wiring your auxiliary ports open isn't "tuning."

 

^ again, thanks for your input, but i wasn't misleading anyone by saying what I did to MY CAR. I implore you to come work on it for free if you don't appreciate my methods.

 

There is no question that wiring the aux ports open is a massive low end loss and no top end gain when compared to a set of properly working ports. It was dyno proven, more then 20 years ago. It's now fallen into the category of "common knowledge".

Any any rate, I think everyone would agree that getting to 200 RWHP NA is going to cost about the same as performing a TII swap and making 250 RWHP. The NA route is just going to be a lot more difficult to achieve and won't have nearly the nice torque curve the TII swap would.

 

i don't have an air pump- hence the port wiring. i didn't specify before, so i guess thats why everyone was confused about it.

 

You would be better off pulling the sleeves and actuators all together.

 

200 HP? it can be done. do a search and use the username Kahren.

in all likelihood, you will need a streetport, but if you get the right intake setup and a halfway decent EMS, it can be done using mostly stock ware. of course, it will need tuning.

 

sounds like an initial d question

 

Hmm. I dont have an air pump either. P/O deleted it. So that would mean my 5th and 6th ports are useless?

I was told by an s5 owner that the aux ports work of exhaust backpressure. I'm still new to the re and haven't really wrenched on it much vs taking one apart to get rid of.

 

S4 5th and 6th Ports are actuated by back pressure from the exhaust, and S5 are by the air pump. And you have S4s so you're good bro.

 

Thank you for clearing that up!

That helps me get to the root of some of my "issues".......