D Walker

iTrader: (1)

This motor ran this weekend- specs are:

FD core housings
Ported irons and housings, medium port
Multi-window bearings (pre-run)
FD e-shaft
FD rotors milled for 3mm apex seals
Mix of new/used side seals
new side seal springs
Goopy 3MM apex seals
Goopy corner seals
Goopy O-Ring kit
Goopy resurfaced rotor housings
FD front cover

Supporting the engine are:
stock FD LIM/UIM and TB with Greddy elbow
Stock FD 550cc primaries
Bosch 1600cc secondaries (white connector)
AEM ECU
FD coils

Engine runs on E-85 and Redline performance 2-stroke oil.Base fuel pressure set to 40psi.

Assembled the engine last Tuesday from parts I had laying around the shop and the new Goopy parts. Used Redline assembly lube, Torco assembly lube, and Vaseline as needed. Side seals set to "zero" clearance per L Hanover. Oil pump sealed to the front iron with Loctite 572 flange sealant. Did not crush oil pressure regulator for more pressure. Used RX-8 front housing gasket (metal gasket) Hylomar used on dowel pin o-rings, small amounts of silicone used on coolant o-rings. Everything went together well. Installed the engine Thurday/Friday. Finished up around 8:30 pm Friday night. After building oil pressure and fixing minor fuel leak at regulator engine fired right up but required a little adjustment of the throttle screw to idle. Small amount of smoke from the vaseline burning off, little to no oil smoke. Let car idle for about 15 minutes, put it back in the shop and went home.
Next morning drove the car around the block twice before loading onto the trailer and heading to a local auto-cross. No leaks, response to throttle very good, boos onset typically eary at 3k rpm.
Got to the autocross, unloaded it and again, no issues starting or driving. No oil smoke, but some white smoke typical of overly rich e-85 on a cold (30deg) morning. fairly rich at idle but I did not bother to adjust.
1st run- stupid me forgot to make sure the "secondary" throttle blade for the FD UIM was wired shut, engine very pissed off and breaking up at higher RPM. Brake pads (PFC 91's) cold, had no brakes to speak of which made life exciting. When in grid the car was idling at 3K rpm, no time to check it so pulled around for run 2
2nd run- Between runs fixed stupid throttle blade, found that several vacumn caps had blown off, replaced them and idle returned to normal. Also found that the boost control hoses had been swapped, so bypassed the controller and ran on wastegate pressure. On course car extremely overpowered, very easy to lose traction on throttle at any point on course.
3rd run- Cold weather +street tires+ horsepower= lots of wheelspin. Virtually no traction but finally some heat inthe brakes.
4th run- best run of the day because I only used full throttle maybe three times. Still spun the tires but much more controllable.
5th run- last run of day felt good despite the wheelspin and sliding.

Loaded the car in the trailer and went home. Engine has less than an hours time on it with at least two periods of overboost conditions and several seconds hanging on the rev limiter. Starts idles and runs just fine. Compression test later today when I have a few minutes.

Overall I am extemely impressed. Using RA or OEM etc seals I would never have done this, as I would have wanted to break the seals into the housings for 500 to 100 miles before really leaning on it, and I would NEVER have taken them to any kind of track or event without having checked the tune on a dyno. Jonathan told me his seals break in in an hour or less, and since he makes them I believed him. I am now a firm believer, as exactly what he said would happened happened the way he said it would.
Despite the limited break in period, the e-85, overly rich fueling, overboost, and lack of tuning the engine held up the the beating I gave it just fine.
As I said, compression numbers coming later today as I have time to do them.

Cheers!
Don

rotaryB-2000

..

cool news..related to these new seals
*******************************/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=13179

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

sounds like you had a good time. can't wait to see the compression numbers on this. what condition were the rotor housings in before the resurface? also, are you planning a teardown just for inspection at a chosen interval? i'm just curious.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

I did have a good time! First autocross in ten years and overall I was fairly happy. The car is too stiff, a bit overpowered, and of course on street tires which just really do not work for autocross. I "may" take the car up to HPR for an open track day next month if time allows for a more definitive shakedown run.


Was considering tearing the motor down before the next event, and still might, however it might be better to get it on the dyno before pulling the motor and tearing it down. We will have to see what time allows. Would be nice to have time to do it all, but given the choice dyno wins over teardown.

The housings were pretty scored before resurfacing, in fact I was fairly certian they were trash. Pictures of the before and after can be seen the Good Business section in the thread I made there.

I use a Vantage with the pressure sensor for doing my compression tests and the sensor has decided to crap out, hopefully Snap-on has one on the truck or can get me one without much trouble.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

for what it's worth, that's what i'd do. it makes the most sense to get a baseline if possible. keep at it.

peejay

I'd have never taken a car out the day after putting a fresh assembled engine in... then again I don't have a trailer and my paranoia factor is high

Glad to see the RX-8 gasket being used more and more. It's an awesome solution to the oil O-ring problem.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

To be honest, a year ago I would not have done it either, but Jonathan said I could and since he makes the seals he should know.

AlexG13B

iTrader: (7)

any compression numbers yet? ha

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, Snap-on guy was by yeasterday, the sensor kit is $300+ but all we need is the sensor, not the kit, so he had to "check on it" which means I might hear something in a week or two. No hurry for me as the next event is not until the 20th and I might not even be able to make it. Was thinking about dynoing the car, just need to get a little free time.

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

L Hanover says to break the motor in for 1000 miles when setting the side seal clearance to zero.

Glad things are working out. What did you seal the legs of the housings with? Hylomar or silicone?

FDWarrior

iTrader: (6)

Jonathan stopped by the shop, and showed us all of there product. Goopy has been around for a long time, just not a big presence on the internet. Goopy's products are top notch, and there housing resurfacing is a work of art.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I know about the 1000m break-in, but unfortunately for me the timing just did not allow it.

I sealed the legs with silicone.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well, i do like the idea of oversized seals but i wouldn't discount the idea that the oversized seals should all be identically matched in oversize. basically saying i wouldn't run 2 stock size seals with 1 that is .15mm oversized. in short, the seals will all have different mass and wear at different rates.

it may not be an issue ever, but the more horsepower cranked through it the more it should be noted.

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

If your talking about the oversized apex seals they do come as a set and I would think you would use them as a set rather than just use one or two per engine. However the weight difference is less than negligible so I see no reason why you could not do just that to save a rotor.

indio84

iTrader: (7)

compression numbers? with pic please

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

Compression today at 5830ft elevation is 60psi on the bounce front, 65psi on the bounce rear, using the little tiny (PC680) battery that starts the car. Kindof amazing an E85 rotary actually starts on that little pissant battery, but it does.

My wideband is being all weird so am fixing that and adding in a knock sensor, then probably dynoing this or next Saturday if I have time and the weather doesnt suck. I have to use another dyno as the software/data ack for ours is way old and no longer supported, so until we get it sorted no dyno for us! Anywho this means trailering the car about 25minutes to the closest dyno, which I wont be able to do until Sat. Really thinking I should drain the fuel in the car now, as it is half new and about half old, which is naggging at my mind a little.
The problem with a race car is that other than starting and idling it it is pretty damned hard to put actual time on it. Maybe a couple trips around the block on the weekend when the industrial park we are in is deserted, but thats about it. If I had to guess I would say that the motor has *maybe) an hour total run time on it. What really needs to happen after the dyno is to take it out to HPR for a lapping day and just run the **** out of it for about half a day.

AlexG13B

iTrader: (7)

60psi bouncing? wat about holding compression?
i got 30 psi bouncing on last motor and 98-100 total

i just got my housings done as well and bought their apex seals. might get their oversized bolt kit and solid corner sells as well

D Walker

iTrader: (1)

I am using my Vantage for compression testing and it doesnt really do cumulative readings. To do a cumulative reading I would have to put a bigger battery in it and track down one of the standard compression testers. Kind of holding out for one of those spiffy Twisted Rotor rotary compression testers, but he has not released v2.0 yet (that I know of).
If I have time this afternoon after close I will pop the plugs back out of it and borrow one of the guys standard comp testers, but honestly I am more interested in getting it to the dyno at this point.

Oh and FWIW I have not had an engine give 60psi on the bounce at this altitude ever.

eff_three_see_es

iTrader: (11)

60 psi at that elevation is pretty damn good, I have had good motors barely make 70 at 2300ft on a battery charger.