rotorbeetle

Hi all
I have a 13bt in a beetle stock standard with a microtec mtx8 running things
I currently have a problem. When I run .3bar boost she only revs 6k but wait it gets worse when I up the boost from .3 to .6 I only get 5k max revs
Now I have tested the compression with a normal tester and both front and rear rotors test the same compression at 90PSI estimate because it happens so damn quick
I have had people telling me that my apex’s seals are moving away ?? and this causes the boost to leak and that why etc
But I need some more info on this because I live in RSA rebuilding a 13BT is very much expensive and if I can avoid this exercise I will trust me
SO this is a question to all
Any advise welcome
TIA

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

wow. please use sentence structure as that is hard to read.

i think you are having the knock sensor shutting everything down. i would make sure you are running rich slightly. what is your a/f gauge telling you?

i'm not familiar with that ecu but you cold have some default safety settings on.

rotorbeetle

Engine is 13BT in 1972 Beetle
ECU is a microtec mtx8
Program default to changed (can load default again )
Stock turbo &intercooler
Stock plugs with 4 coils supplying spark (managed by MTx8 ECU
1x TPS
1x Air temp sensor
1x map sensor for boost in MTx8

I think that’s about it

Now

1:knock sensor I don’t have

2:played with fueling and timing no luck yet

3:A/F = air into engine?? Or please explain

4: safety = what I set and as far as i understand

a: no rev limit

b: no boost cut

c: no timing problem

d: no fueling problem

5:been on the dyno for hours and conclusion is

a: loss of RPM when Boost pressure from turbo is increased

b: compression is +-90 PSI for both rotors

c: fuel pressure/flow is tested and was given the all OK

d: timing was set at 20 degrees from 2.5kto 8k rpm and according to the so called pro's this is also OK

e: the same computer that is on my car with same settings was tested on a identical setup (another beetle) and tested OK rpms right up and over 8K
with .6 bar boost

f: but with mine nothing more than 6k on low boost

6:i am a bit nervous with swapping components and would not know where to start anyways

Hope this makes more sense than previous mail

HeffBoost

Whatcha got for exhaust? I wouldn't think you're problem has anything to do with the compression. But I'm trying to think of what would be proportional to boost like that.

A/F, referring to air/fuel ratio.

Where's RSA? Do you have any pics of the engine bay? I've heard about people doing it, but never seen one. Very interesting. What's the thing weigh?

Pretty darn cool

rotorbeetle

I think it is a 63mm or inch or something with one free flow box all in all about .8meters long
.3 bar is std boost on the series 4 engines something like 6 or 8psi or something
Where do i C my A/F on the hand set ??
All i know is she is a bit rich on fuel because she idles like a Bridgeport with some black smoke hanging around the exhaust on idle
South Africa
Not yet but should have soon
I will have to guess and say less than 900kg
Why would she loose revs when I put the boost to .6 bar though ??
Some people here is South Africa reckon its compression / apex seals that causes by pass or something ?Is this possible on a 13bt ?
How can you be sure that it is or isn’t compression ?
I have tried many changes to the ECU etc but JA no success
I even tried a new ECU with a new program with no luck
SO I think its either apex seals (hope not they cost R4000)
Or some sender unit like ……………who knows
Any input welcome
Maybe something else I have not tried ???

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

you need to get an a/f gauge. this will tell you if the engine is running lean or rich and a very important tool. DO NOT keep tuning it until you can see this. with a haltech, it can record all this and then can be printed or viewed on the laptop. i'm not familiar with microtek though.

rotorbeetle

Stupid Q but is this that thing they stick up the Zorst when on the dyno that goes like well over the normal piston car reading and shows you the carbons etc
Or am i missing the mark again ?

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

zorst? i take it you are talking about the muffler. the dyno should have a wideband o2 sensor that you are probably refering to. this is the same as an a/f guage. an air/fuel gauge takes reading off the o2 sensor to tell you the ratio. what do you mean by goes well over the normal piston reading?

rotorbeetle

well the way it was explained is that this wide band o2 sensor thing they put at the back of the exhaust
should read at worse 1.5 something and 700 something
i think the 700 is carbons ?? the 1.5 maybe then a/f sorry can remeber just now my car went of the scale of this o2 thing and he told me the car is set rich on idle etc but then she comes into scale when you take a run but alway richer than leaner
so alway well over 4 and 900

Where can i get a A/f meter and where will i put it
Is it like a lamda that sits just behind the turbo ?
Because i think a lamda sensor also tells the ECU wat mix its runnig except on WOT
Does this make sense ???

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

o2 sensor? i have no clue what a lamda sensor is. generally you put another bung on the exhaust and install a second o2 sensor. the a/f gauge will read from that o2 sensor. rich is good but you need to know how rich. without knowing what the car is doing other then it stops at those rpm's doen't give me much to work with. i'm still saying its you a/f ratio or ecu.

madas7

the lamda sensor is an a/f metre in simple terms, do you have a hand set for mtx is it 4 or 2 line hand set.
if it is the 4 line handset and if the sensor is plugged in and the handset plugged in while the car is running the handset should scroll through 2 screens i believe.

on 1 of the screens on the lower left i think( could be the right? never can remember) there should be the a/r ratio if it rich the number will be low like 10-12 or even lower and lean 15-17 or higher for cruising the number should be around 14.7 i believe.

by what your saying i believe your a/r will be around 12 or lower at idle. the micro tech systems come with a base map standard ( made 2 run the standard engine on standard 550cc injectors) if you still have this then set it back 2 this and leave it at this till you get some dyno time and some one who knows how 2 tune it.

HeffBoost

Yeah, I guess you could be going way too rich under boost. Are you still on the stock fuel pressure reg.? Sounds like something that could happen with a rising rate unit.

rotorbeetle

Ok so its like a lamda and a MTX 4line handset should have this just need to locate the sending unit part hmm
I will have a look and C
As for not much to work with maybe you need to ask the questions and i will try and answer instead of me giving useless data ?? how about it ?
I really cant C feel know of any other way of explaining
All i know is she is rich by how much ??? well not a clue but am going to find out
as for just loosing all power i will put it back on the dyno and get that o2 thing to tell me what happens at 5.5 k rpms i will also hook up a fuel presure guage and have a look at what happens with fuel at 5.5 k and what else can i check whiles on the dyno ??


How about a list ??
1: ......
2:......
3:......
etc

rotorbeetle

Ok so i am looking for A/R not A/F anymore ?
Scroll up down or left or right ?
I guess i am blind went though all the screens but no A/R this damn car ....... HELP
i put tit back to that base map even worse i think still 5.5k at .6 bar and 6.5 at .3 bar lot less power now lots less
100kw = 60kw now not nice i am getting #*! by uno's now
O well any good tuners you know off in Sout Africa i can try been to rest might as well try the best
Thanks for input will go hunting on the hand set tonight again
Qhow can i print out my current config so i can mail it to the group so someone can take a look at it ???

rotorbeetle

To rich under boost with a 8-9 kms on 1 liter NO cant be ?? can it ??
The exhaust still burns dark grey cant be to rich i hope
Ok let me put it this way STD rx 13bt with .3 bar boost at 120kph should give how many kms on a liter ??
I spoke to people localy about that and they recon 6-8 kms on a liter is fair to good and mine is 8-9 kms per liter ??

Yes still the stock 2
1 per rail I C the top rail reg has a little screw thing and the bottom one not ??Whats up with that ?
What is this rising rate unit
Down here in South Africa we dont have all those fancy things you have in the USA or Aus

Thanks

rotorbeetle

one more thing what sending unit can i should i get for the A/R or A/f option i C that there is a Lamda in the exhaust but dont know if it will work ?? or wat type it is

Any suggestions welcome

madas7

sorry should be A/F, when you start the car the screen should scroll by its self, dont touch the left, right, up, down buttons just sit and watch the screen scroll by its self between the 2.

as for the lamda there are 2 options, 1 wire(the easiest to wire up,the wire is your signal wire) and a 4 wire( you need 2 wire this one up 2 wires are the heater wire, 1 for ground and the last is the signal) just read the instructions on how 2 wire it up if not already done.

as for the fuel rails there are 2, the lower 1 with the 2 inj in the block, those are your primary injectors.
the other fuel rail that is connected to the manifold are your secondary inj. The primary inj always work, the secondary inj only come on under certain loads or higher in the revs.

the one with the screw is a pulsation dampner its job is to smooth out the fuel delivery from the pump. The one with the nipple or vac hose connected to it, that is your fuel pressure regulator.

Why dont you ask the person who sold you the unit, they should be able 2 help you????

maxcooper

My guess is ignition trouble, perhaps made worse with too much fuel. How new are the plugs & wires? What plug are you using?

rotorbeetle

Ok i will have to take out the lamda solder in a wire because the clones cut it of like in the lamda
And ones this is done i will refer to da manual for hooking it up to the ECU
Good I think I understand now

SO don’t touch just look got it
How do I know this lamda works ?? any test’s I can do

Ok and where do i find these load setting to C when how with what amount etc
(I know stupid Q)RTFM got it
And to test the injectors ??

O ok so the one on the bottom with the pipe back to the tank is the presure regulator interesting thanks

Because he is just to “Busy”to help
Been there tried that no luck
Some history
In South Africa people don’t like to help others because they are 2 scared that you will open a shop next door and take their business (like i want to be a mechanic and deal with this **** every day NOT) no offense to mechanic's you guys are good at what you do and well me lets not go there just yet

I don’t earn $ but SA Rands and because of this I don’t have lots of bucks to pay someone to do this stuff I feel I can master with a bit of help

Shies that is a mouth full damn

rotorbeetle

Bougi cord for wires
plugs brand new STD 13BT plug NGK 9 something and NGK 7 something Sorry not at the car

What can i do to test this ignition for problems ?

rotorbeetle

Ok found the a/f reading its stuck on 18.5
On idle and when I drive why ????
now if i read correctly this is lean ???
I also C the ECU is in TPS mode ????
And i just read TPS BAD
and MAP GOOD
But now how do i change from TPS to MAP
and all the little changes that goes with it ????
I am getting a bit nervous about this so called STD map that is on my ECU
i do not think this is the basic map supplied with the ECU
but some modified one

So now where can i get a basic microtec map from and how will i put this in / on to the ECU so that i have the basic un touched map back

So that i can get back to default
and if there is changes to be made i can do this and save it in the second MEM slot

HELP

rotorbeetle

She is back to her old self 8K all the way
only have 95kw on the wheels but hey this is on 93 ron and 4psi so i am happy for now
next mission is to build a charge cooler to get my a/t down to 10 DEG and not 80 DEG
There is always something

SO thanks for all your advise and input

There is many happy miles still to come