Climate control and idiot lights on when OFF?
06-21-14, 01:54 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Climate control and idiot lights on when OFF?
Im in the process of swapping an s5 usdm TII engine with s4 externals into my 87 GXL. The engines in place and everything in the engine bay has been reattached. The engine will crank but i haven't got it running yet but that is not the point of this thread.
As soon as I hook up the battery, and the key is still out of the ignition my climate control is functioning. Also the turn signals work. As well, my idiot lights:
Wiper fluid (makes sense because there is a leak)
Handbrake (don't know why this is on when the handbrake is down)
Are both on? I'm not saying why do I have those lit up but why are they on when the car is off?
I don't think is the issue with failed alternator because the coolant warning was on and now that I have filled it it's gone away. The only reason I'm pointing that out is because prior to doing the swap some lights never came on such as the seatbelt warning. At first I thought it was failed alternator because as far as I know the could all be lit up but now that coolant is gone I don't think that is it.
So what could have been hooked up wrong while hooking up the engine to cause my warning lights and climate to be running as though the key is in the ON position? I don't understand since everything just plugged into the same ports as before.
The only other things I can say are that when I first hooked up the battery the very first time the starter motor started whirring and the battery was shorting. I soon realized that the power cable going to the starter motor was hooked on the wrong side since it was flipped upside down in this engine compared to my old engine. Once I moved that to the other side both symptoms went away.
The other thing is that the in between this first time and the next time I hooked up that battery I noticed that a a large green connector I believe hooked to the CPU in the drivers footwell had been unplugged so I reattached it. When I hooked up the battery the next time it appeared to be shorting again and since the only electrical thing that had been changed was that plug, I unplugged it and reattached it again and the shorting went away.
That's really all the extra info I can add.
Thanks In advance
As soon as I hook up the battery, and the key is still out of the ignition my climate control is functioning. Also the turn signals work. As well, my idiot lights:
Wiper fluid (makes sense because there is a leak)
Handbrake (don't know why this is on when the handbrake is down)
Are both on? I'm not saying why do I have those lit up but why are they on when the car is off?
I don't think is the issue with failed alternator because the coolant warning was on and now that I have filled it it's gone away. The only reason I'm pointing that out is because prior to doing the swap some lights never came on such as the seatbelt warning. At first I thought it was failed alternator because as far as I know the could all be lit up but now that coolant is gone I don't think that is it.
So what could have been hooked up wrong while hooking up the engine to cause my warning lights and climate to be running as though the key is in the ON position? I don't understand since everything just plugged into the same ports as before.
The only other things I can say are that when I first hooked up the battery the very first time the starter motor started whirring and the battery was shorting. I soon realized that the power cable going to the starter motor was hooked on the wrong side since it was flipped upside down in this engine compared to my old engine. Once I moved that to the other side both symptoms went away.
The other thing is that the in between this first time and the next time I hooked up that battery I noticed that a a large green connector I believe hooked to the CPU in the drivers footwell had been unplugged so I reattached it. When I hooked up the battery the next time it appeared to be shorting again and since the only electrical thing that had been changed was that plug, I unplugged it and reattached it again and the shorting went away.
That's really all the extra info I can add.
Thanks In advance
06-26-14, 09:55 AM
#4
The other thing is that the in between this first time and the next time I hooked up that battery I noticed that a a large green connector I believe hooked to the CPU in the drivers footwell had been unplugged so I reattached it. When I hooked up the battery the next time it appeared to be shorting again and since the only electrical thing that had been changed was that plug, I unplugged it and reattached it again and the shorting went away.
That's really all the extra info I can add.
Thanks In advance
That's really all the extra info I can add.
Thanks In advance
06-26-14, 12:08 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
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06-28-14, 01:54 PM
#8
Not having a starter is not related to your idiot lights or turn signals or logicon working w/o the key in the ignition. Did you touch the wires to the ignition switch? How did you wire the alternator? The wires on an NA for the alternator are not found on the same harness for a turbo as they are part of different harnesses. NA alternator wires are part of the emission and engine harness. Alternator on a turbo car uses the engine harness only.
06-29-14, 02:13 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Not having a starter is not related to your idiot lights or turn signals or logicon working w/o the key in the ignition. Did you touch the wires to the ignition switch? How did you wire the alternator? The wires on an NA for the alternator are not found on the same harness for a turbo as they are part of different harnesses. NA alternator wires are part of the emission and engine harness. Alternator on a turbo car uses the engine harness only.
06-29-14, 05:26 PM
#10
Things like the turn signals and idiot lights are powered by the IG1 fuses. These fuses are the engine fuse, meter fuse,steering fuse,window fuse and the turn fuse. All these fuses found in the interior fuse box and are powered by the Black/White wire w/key to on. If any or all of the accessories work w/no key then one or more of these fuses are being backfed voltage from a constant source which is incorrect. I would start by pulling the 15 amp engine fuse and see if the turn signals and idiot lights work w/no key.
06-29-14, 11:09 PM
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Things like the turn signals and idiot lights are powered by the IG1 fuses. These fuses are the engine fuse, meter fuse,steering fuse,window fuse and the turn fuse. All these fuses found in the interior fuse box and are powered by the Black/White wire w/key to on. If any or all of the accessories work w/no key then one or more of these fuses are being backfed voltage from a constant source which is incorrect. I would start by pulling the 15 amp engine fuse and see if the turn signals and idiot lights work w/no key.
07-19-14, 09:38 PM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Just want to update on this problem. The symptoms are slightly different than what I said before in that when the battery is first hooked up all the climate control and turn signals are off. When the key is turned to the ON position they are then able to function as usual. But then when you turn the key to the OFF position or even take the key out all those features continue to function until the battery is disconnected.
What would cause them to not realize the key has been switched back off and even removed?
Thanks
What would cause them to not realize the key has been switched back off and even removed?
Thanks
07-20-14, 10:14 AM
#13
Just want to update on this problem. The symptoms are slightly different than what I said before in that when the battery is first hooked up all the climate control and turn signals are off. When the key is turned to the ON position they are then able to function as usual. But then when you turn the key to the OFF position or even take the key out all those features continue to function until the battery is disconnected.
What would cause them to not realize the key has been switched back off and even removed?
Thanks
What would cause them to not realize the key has been switched back off and even removed?
Thanks
07-21-14, 11:25 AM
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Likely a faulty ignition switch. W/the key in the off position the only wire on the front harness side which connects to the ignition switch that should have voltage is the solid Black wire. If any of the other wires such as B/W, Blue, or either B/R have voltage then the switch is problematic.
07-21-14, 06:16 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
08-04-14, 02:04 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Pulling the IG1 fuse turns off the interior items that are on after the key is turned to OFF and reinserting it keeps them off until ignition is turned to ON once again. Also, I noticed yesterday that the engine didn't turn off when I turned the key to OFF until it died on its own. Are there any compatibility problems with the ignition switch from NA to turbo engine? Or is it simply broken coincidentally. As I said before this never happened before i started the swap.
08-04-14, 03:19 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
Just to add to that last post, when turning the key to ACC then to OFF, every item that turns on for ACC does in fact then off.
And when turning the key to ON then back to OFF the accessory items turn off. But all those interior items stay on.
And when turning the key to ON then back to OFF the accessory items turn off. But all those interior items stay on.
08-04-14, 10:11 AM
#20
The engine fuse, meter fuse, steering fuse, window fuse and turn fuse are all IG1 fuses. Which one fuse did you pull? Lets say it was the turn fuse, then look at the ignition switch plug which has two wires w/one being solid Black and the other is Black/White. When certain items are on after turning the key to off then check the B/W wire for power. This wire should not have power w/the key to off. This was already touched on earlier.
Last edited by satch; 08-04-14 at 10:14 AM.
08-04-14, 12:47 PM
#21
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Thread Starter
Right yeah I didn't have time to get get a puller get to remove the steering wheel to get at the ignition switch. I pulled the 30 A IG1 fuse in the engine bay above the EGI fuse
08-04-14, 01:59 PM
#22
The plugs to the ignition switch are under the dash and removing the steering wheel will accomplish nothing.
There are two EGI fuses in the engine fuse box. One is for the Comp(uter) and the other is for the injector/coils. The 30 amp EGI fuse is the Comp fuse. Both of these EGI fuses power the main relay and should have no bearing on the wipers or dash lights working or not. You evidently messed up your wiring connections when doing the swap.
First things first. It was mentioned previously how you wired the alternator. If done wrong the net result would be a car which does not like to turn off when the key is switched to off plus there will be additional backfeeding to fuses which will power items when they are not supposed to.
Starting w/the two wires to the alternator, you need to verify whether this is your problem. The easiest thing to do would be just to unplug the two wire plug from said alternator and see if the option items such as wipers, turn signals, interior lights behave themselves, as well as the car turning off when it is supposed to, though w/the plug disconnected from the alternator you will obviously not want to run the car w/o charging the battery.
Another thing you could do is a simple continuity test at the alternator's two wire plug. The wire on top of the plug should be the B/W wire and the wire below it is W/B. The largest plug of the CPU has a W/B wire which is the very same wire at the alternator. Make sure there is no voltage on this wire and then w/no key conduct a continuity test w/one meter lead to the W/B wire in the CPU's largest plug and the other meter lead to the bottom positioned wire in the two wire plug from the alternator. If it rings out then the connection to that wire is proper but if not then you likely have the wires crossed to the alternator plug.
Lastly, if you did any wiring under the dash make sure the plug to the cruise control, if equipped, is connected to the proper plug as there are two plugs under the dash which are the very same size and if mixed up it can cause various electric circuits to operate wildly.
There are two EGI fuses in the engine fuse box. One is for the Comp(uter) and the other is for the injector/coils. The 30 amp EGI fuse is the Comp fuse. Both of these EGI fuses power the main relay and should have no bearing on the wipers or dash lights working or not. You evidently messed up your wiring connections when doing the swap.
First things first. It was mentioned previously how you wired the alternator. If done wrong the net result would be a car which does not like to turn off when the key is switched to off plus there will be additional backfeeding to fuses which will power items when they are not supposed to.
Starting w/the two wires to the alternator, you need to verify whether this is your problem. The easiest thing to do would be just to unplug the two wire plug from said alternator and see if the option items such as wipers, turn signals, interior lights behave themselves, as well as the car turning off when it is supposed to, though w/the plug disconnected from the alternator you will obviously not want to run the car w/o charging the battery.
Another thing you could do is a simple continuity test at the alternator's two wire plug. The wire on top of the plug should be the B/W wire and the wire below it is W/B. The largest plug of the CPU has a W/B wire which is the very same wire at the alternator. Make sure there is no voltage on this wire and then w/no key conduct a continuity test w/one meter lead to the W/B wire in the CPU's largest plug and the other meter lead to the bottom positioned wire in the two wire plug from the alternator. If it rings out then the connection to that wire is proper but if not then you likely have the wires crossed to the alternator plug.
Lastly, if you did any wiring under the dash make sure the plug to the cruise control, if equipped, is connected to the proper plug as there are two plugs under the dash which are the very same size and if mixed up it can cause various electric circuits to operate wildly.
Last edited by satch; 08-04-14 at 02:02 PM.
08-05-14, 12:20 AM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The plugs to the ignition switch are under the dash and removing the steering wheel will accomplish nothing.
There are two EGI fuses in the engine fuse box. One is for the Comp(uter) and the other is for the injector/coils. The 30 amp EGI fuse is the Comp fuse. Both of these EGI fuses power the main relay and should have no bearing on the wipers or dash lights working or not. You evidently messed up your wiring connections when doing the swap.
First things first. It was mentioned previously how you wired the alternator. If done wrong the net result would be a car which does not like to turn off when the key is switched to off plus there will be additional backfeeding to fuses which will power items when they are not supposed to.
Starting w/the two wires to the alternator, you need to verify whether this is your problem. The easiest thing to do would be just to unplug the two wire plug from said alternator and see if the option items such as wipers, turn signals, interior lights behave themselves, as well as the car turning off when it is supposed to, though w/the plug disconnected from the alternator you will obviously not want to run the car w/o charging the battery.
Another thing you could do is a simple continuity test at the alternator's two wire plug. The wire on top of the plug should be the B/W wire and the wire below it is W/B. The largest plug of the CPU has a W/B wire which is the very same wire at the alternator. Make sure there is no voltage on this wire and then w/no key conduct a continuity test w/one meter lead to the W/B wire in the CPU's largest plug and the other meter lead to the bottom positioned wire in the two wire plug from the alternator. If it rings out then the connection to that wire is proper but if not then you likely have the wires crossed to the alternator plug.
Lastly, if you did any wiring under the dash make sure the plug to the cruise control, if equipped, is connected to the proper plug as there are two plugs under the dash which are the very same size and if mixed up it can cause various electric circuits to operate wildly.
There are two EGI fuses in the engine fuse box. One is for the Comp(uter) and the other is for the injector/coils. The 30 amp EGI fuse is the Comp fuse. Both of these EGI fuses power the main relay and should have no bearing on the wipers or dash lights working or not. You evidently messed up your wiring connections when doing the swap.
First things first. It was mentioned previously how you wired the alternator. If done wrong the net result would be a car which does not like to turn off when the key is switched to off plus there will be additional backfeeding to fuses which will power items when they are not supposed to.
Starting w/the two wires to the alternator, you need to verify whether this is your problem. The easiest thing to do would be just to unplug the two wire plug from said alternator and see if the option items such as wipers, turn signals, interior lights behave themselves, as well as the car turning off when it is supposed to, though w/the plug disconnected from the alternator you will obviously not want to run the car w/o charging the battery.
Another thing you could do is a simple continuity test at the alternator's two wire plug. The wire on top of the plug should be the B/W wire and the wire below it is W/B. The largest plug of the CPU has a W/B wire which is the very same wire at the alternator. Make sure there is no voltage on this wire and then w/no key conduct a continuity test w/one meter lead to the W/B wire in the CPU's largest plug and the other meter lead to the bottom positioned wire in the two wire plug from the alternator. If it rings out then the connection to that wire is proper but if not then you likely have the wires crossed to the alternator plug.
Lastly, if you did any wiring under the dash make sure the plug to the cruise control, if equipped, is connected to the proper plug as there are two plugs under the dash which are the very same size and if mixed up it can cause various electric circuits to operate wildly.
I dont have the cover for the fuse panel in the engine so I guess I was mixing it up with the wrong image when I google searched it. The fuse I am pulling to turn everything off is the EGI comp fuse as you said.
As for the alternator wiring all I did was extend the wiring about 5 inches because for some reason the way I got the harness with the engine it was too short and when I tried to plug it into the alternator I ripped the wiring. I extended it with the same colors but I can check the continuity with the CPU in the footwell ask you said and see if maybe it was already wrong and I just extended it the wrong way again.
Just to be sure, if wired incorrectly would the alternator still be able to backfeed the CPU even if the engine never began cranking and was just turned to ON? With the engine not turning the alternator I mean.
I also noticed that when turning the key to ON (and seeing the warning lights and climate switch on) then removing the EGI COMP fuse, the warning lights and climate stay on with the key still in the ON position, and then all switch off when the key is turned to OFF.
I received the engine with the full engine harness already attached and just began to plug in the body harness connectors to the various locations on the engine as I had removed them from my previous engine. I never actually did any wiring other than extending the alternator wiring, extending the transmission sensor wiring, and installing my gauge. The problems had occurred before installing the gauge.
I am away again now for the week so I will have to check the alternator wiring continuity and the ignition switch connectors when I get back. I really hope it's the alternator wiring just being crossed.
08-05-14, 01:09 AM
#24
Pulling the EGI fuse would have no affect on the warning lights although that they turn on w/key to on suggests you have the wiring to the alternator hooked up correctly.
Also, if the main relay would to stick in the closed position w/the car running then the car could continue to run w/the key to off. If you wanted to check this notion of the car continues to run w/the key being off and it perhaps being caused by a sticking relay all you would need o do is to unplug the two wire plug from the relay and if the car continues to run then there is a good chance that the relay is sticking. In the relay plug which has but two wires one of these wires is B/W and is powered by the 15 amp engine fuse. This wire should have voltage w/key to on but never w/key to off.
Also, if the main relay would to stick in the closed position w/the car running then the car could continue to run w/the key to off. If you wanted to check this notion of the car continues to run w/the key being off and it perhaps being caused by a sticking relay all you would need o do is to unplug the two wire plug from the relay and if the car continues to run then there is a good chance that the relay is sticking. In the relay plug which has but two wires one of these wires is B/W and is powered by the 15 amp engine fuse. This wire should have voltage w/key to on but never w/key to off.
08-05-14, 02:34 AM
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Pulling the EGI fuse would have no affect on the warning lights although that they turn on w/key to on suggests you have the wiring to the alternator hooked up correctly.
Also, if the main relay would to stick in the closed position w/the car running then the car could continue to run w/the key to off. If you wanted to check this notion of the car continues to run w/the key being off and it perhaps being caused by a sticking relay all you would need o do is to unplug the two wire plug from the relay and if the car continues to run then there is a good chance that the relay is sticking. In the relay plug which has but two wires one of these wires is B/W and is powered by the 15 amp engine fuse. This wire should have voltage w/key to on but never w/key to off.
Also, if the main relay would to stick in the closed position w/the car running then the car could continue to run w/the key to off. If you wanted to check this notion of the car continues to run w/the key being off and it perhaps being caused by a sticking relay all you would need o do is to unplug the two wire plug from the relay and if the car continues to run then there is a good chance that the relay is sticking. In the relay plug which has but two wires one of these wires is B/W and is powered by the 15 amp engine fuse. This wire should have voltage w/key to on but never w/key to off.
Where can I find the main relay