Atkins Rotary Bad rebuild
03-15-07, 02:01 PM
#26
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by quickseven
What are you talking about? The motor was just rebuilt....how is that considered a bad motor?
Originally Posted by quickseven
I noticed that when the car got hot it did not want to start. He said that it had always done that...I didn't have any idea back then of what that could possibly be and thought it would probably be an easy fix. I ended up buying the car...
03-15-07, 02:05 PM
#27
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by Mahjik
Unfortunately, there's no real way for the customer to prove it either.
Originally Posted by Mahjik
Since the engines aren't stamped and/or tracked, the customer is always going to get the short end of the stick in these situations.
03-15-07, 02:06 PM
#29
Lives on the Forum
Originally Posted by quickseven
Alright....could have been numerous things...that's not what its about...the point is that the rotor in the engine was bad end of story
03-15-07, 02:25 PM
#31
Originally Posted by quickseven
Alright....could have been numerous things...that's not what its about...the point is that the rotor in the engine was bad end of story
Anything else pertaining to whether it is a Atkins motor or anything else for that matter is not a fact.
In a court of law everything else would not be admissible and would be thrown out.
The same thing to be said of the rules of posting here in this section.
You do not have facts other than the rotor is bad, correct?
This is something that took place over 2 years ago. That is a fact.
Do you know for a "Fact" that the shop you bought it off of actually put the motor in the vehicle in the first place? You do not! For all we know the shop sold the engine off to recoup costs and then decided to sell the vehicle.
We don't know, do we?
What The whole point of this is that you cannot make unfounded non-factual statements about anyone. Whether it be Atkins or a individual.
You must have proof as the forum rules state. And also as a Court of law would state.
Anything said in a public forum about anyone that is not supported by cold hard facts can be deemed as Slander.
It's unfortunate that you had to have a engine rebuilt in a used vehicle that you have purchased. But you knew this right up front.
Whether Atkins wants to give you an explanation on this or not is their business. It is no one elses.
03-15-07, 02:43 PM
#32
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Well did the motor have all the items described in the reciept from atkins? It said it was ported, and had ceramic apex seals. Does atkins use a specific port that could be identified?
03-15-07, 03:46 PM
#36
I didn't even read the whole thing....but let me just say this.
When you buy a house from some one and the roof falls in. You don't go after the roof builder...you go after the person that sold you the house.
You can't expect to claim damages from the builder...after 2 years when the car was purchase from the seller..
Crappy fuel filter.
Gunky injectors.
Poor coolant.
Different motor!
All could have been factors.
If the motor was running with the rotor in it and wasn't the cause for the failure of the motor. What are you trying to claim? You bought the car As-Is and not in agreement or contract with Atkins.
When you buy a house from some one and the roof falls in. You don't go after the roof builder...you go after the person that sold you the house.
You can't expect to claim damages from the builder...after 2 years when the car was purchase from the seller..
Crappy fuel filter.
Gunky injectors.
Poor coolant.
Different motor!
All could have been factors.
If the motor was running with the rotor in it and wasn't the cause for the failure of the motor. What are you trying to claim? You bought the car As-Is and not in agreement or contract with Atkins.
03-15-07, 04:09 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by rogrx7
I didn't even read the whole thing....but let me just say this.
When you buy a house from some one and the roof falls in. You don't go after the roof builder...you go after the person that sold you the house.
You can't expect to claim damages from the builder...after 2 years when the car was purchase from the seller..
Crappy fuel filter.
Gunky injectors.
Poor coolant.
Different motor!
All could have been factors.
If the motor was running with the rotor in it and wasn't the cause for the failure of the motor. What are you trying to claim? You bought the car As-Is and not in agreement or contract with Atkins.
When you buy a house from some one and the roof falls in. You don't go after the roof builder...you go after the person that sold you the house.
You can't expect to claim damages from the builder...after 2 years when the car was purchase from the seller..
Crappy fuel filter.
Gunky injectors.
Poor coolant.
Different motor!
All could have been factors.
If the motor was running with the rotor in it and wasn't the cause for the failure of the motor. What are you trying to claim? You bought the car As-Is and not in agreement or contract with Atkins.
03-16-07, 07:36 PM
#39
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I questioned whether or not my motor was rebuilt a couple years ago. Dan Atkins looked at it and told me it was, but not by them. The housings had numbers stamped on them that he said were mazda reman numbers, and that they stamp thiers with an (I believe) ar... number. That would tell you if it was an atkins motor or not, but.... as has been stated here, it doesn't really matter at this point. The only thing that really matters is you need a new motor, and that sucks.
The lesson to be learned here is this: If you're going to purchase a new motor, DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!! Not just on this forum, but others too. Also search the internet for info on companies. I've seen SEVERAL complaints about Atkins all over every rotary forum I've been on. I can't confirm them, but it's given me enough knowledge to say that I wouldn't buy, or trust one of thier motors. (this is just my personal preference) I've had amazing results from my factory rebuild.
The lesson to be learned here is this: If you're going to purchase a new motor, DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!! Not just on this forum, but others too. Also search the internet for info on companies. I've seen SEVERAL complaints about Atkins all over every rotary forum I've been on. I can't confirm them, but it's given me enough knowledge to say that I wouldn't buy, or trust one of thier motors. (this is just my personal preference) I've had amazing results from my factory rebuild.
03-16-07, 08:47 PM
#40
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For one I totally agree with Brian. The smart thing to do is to do the reasearch on the motor builder that your considering, or who you might consider having do the build. This seems to have come up in the past more than one time, and im probably going to get banned for posting this, or this deleted, but it seems ever since Mikey (minnesota Mike) stopped working on Atkins motors, that the motor building went to ****.
I my self personally wouldnt have them build me a garbage can because of warrantee issues, of course if the lid was out of round and didnt seal right, it would be my fault if something were to go wrong, atkins taking no blame what so ever, even if it was their fault. (I drive like a mad man), is what they would say, and for that, the warranty would of course be no blame on their part. INVALD!!! INVALD!!! INVALD!!! WARRANTY.
I would buy parts from them (Only certain parts), but they dislike me because of this same issue thats been brought up in the past.
Just cause Atkins is a sponsor on this forum, shouldnt give them a full pardon on not allowing comments and critisiums about some of their bad motors, or bad business that they seem to muster up from time to time. (As in Kettlmans win on his court case) and numerous other customers. Repeated bad business, bad buisness, bad business, should be allowed to be posted. Even the good.
Come on people get a clue. This shop has messed up, but they wont step up.
Thanks for reading this
Love David
I my self personally wouldnt have them build me a garbage can because of warrantee issues, of course if the lid was out of round and didnt seal right, it would be my fault if something were to go wrong, atkins taking no blame what so ever, even if it was their fault. (I drive like a mad man), is what they would say, and for that, the warranty would of course be no blame on their part. INVALD!!! INVALD!!! INVALD!!! WARRANTY.
I would buy parts from them (Only certain parts), but they dislike me because of this same issue thats been brought up in the past.
Just cause Atkins is a sponsor on this forum, shouldnt give them a full pardon on not allowing comments and critisiums about some of their bad motors, or bad business that they seem to muster up from time to time. (As in Kettlmans win on his court case) and numerous other customers. Repeated bad business, bad buisness, bad business, should be allowed to be posted. Even the good.
Come on people get a clue. This shop has messed up, but they wont step up.
Thanks for reading this
Love David
03-16-07, 11:56 PM
#41
well, after reading this, i'm trying to figure out how everybody got so side tracked. poor quickseven just wanted to know why somebody would put that rotor into a rebuild. didn't seem to me like he blamed atkins for the bad coolant failure, nor did he want any money from them. yet everybody got so defensive that they changed things around on him. how does he know this is an akins motor? well, there motors have a stamp on on the rotor housing. the parts inside the motor matched the invoice. how about the front pulley? did it have one of there "void if removed" stickers over the bolt?? well, sounds like an atkins motor to me! but the truth is right, atkins have no reason to answer the questions quickseven asked. sad to see a rotor like that in an engine. hell, i think my 6 year old wouldn't put that in an engine.
so wether or not it's an atkins built engine. i'm glad quickseven got the problem fixed properly and was able to get a potential problem fixed at the same time.
so wether or not it's an atkins built engine. i'm glad quickseven got the problem fixed properly and was able to get a potential problem fixed at the same time.
03-17-07, 02:14 AM
#42
Quote from quickseven.
"Moral of the story is I'm bitter and just wanted to let everyone know".
I'm going to sum this up for everyone.
1). He bought a "Used" vehicle with a known Bad motor. (Coolant seal).
2). The motor would have to be torn down to fix this problem.
3). Cause of bad coolant seal unknown
4). Found bad rotor upon needed disassembly of motor to repair bad known coolant seals.
5). Have receipt provided by shop owner from Atkins rotary from 2 years ago from previous owners request for new motor
6). quickseven contacts Atkins Rotary about findings of bad rotor.
7). Atkins states that they cannot do anything without pictures.
8). This indicates some sort of a intent to research the matter so that a decision can be made if they(Atkins) can do something for quickseven
9) quickseven who has not paid anything for this rebuilt motor
10)quickseven knows that he is going to have to pay for the rebuilding of this motor by the shop that he has taken it to.
I would have to say those above statements are what we know as facts.
What we don't know.
1). The conversation between Atkins and quickseven as far as the context.
obviously he did not contact them to just tell him that he had a bad rotor from a motor that he said was one of theirs.
2)This is evident by quicksevens statement that Atkins could not do anything without pictures. Meaning there must have been something said that indicated that he would like to see what they could do about it. That is asking for something.
My theory on this and only my theory is that quickseven has been advised from someone(unknown) that he should contact Atkins Rotary and see if they were willing to do something to help out.
And after doing this did not get the results that he had hoped for left the above beginning quote.
Is this normal, Yes.
Do I believe that it is correct, No.
But that is my opinion based on the fact that quickseven never paid for a rebuild from Atkins in the first place.
Is it unfortunate that this particular engine was rebuilt with a questionable part
that cannot be confirmed was indeed installed by Atkins. Yes.
Meaning unless the engine had been returned to Atkins for disassembly or another witness (outside) had viewed the actual disassembly of the motor.
After verifying that all stamps, etc absolutly without a doubt showed that it was originally rebuilt by Atkins.
And Atkins or this outside witness saw the rotor being removed from the motor
could it be stated 100% that the rotor in the presented picture was the one that came out of the motor.
Now in no way am I stating that the disassembler of this motor in anyway substituted the rotor pictured from anyother removed from the engine.
All this has to be taken on faith. But is not a 100% known fact unless Atkins had a opportunity to witness the teardown of the motor.
What does this whole book I have written mean?
It means that the accused party, Atkins was never contacted before the teardown of the engine in question.
Therefore not giving them an opportunity to be involved from the start as to what the new shop was intending to do concerning this Atkins motor.
What they did receive was info after the fact informing that they must have installed a unsatisfactory part in their engine 2 years previously. Then (assuming) that the contact person was asking what are they going to do for him.
For the record. I am not defending Atkins. They have to handle this as they see fit.
What I was pointing out from the beginning is that quickseven never purchased this engine from them. Therfore he should of never contacted Atkins about this issue. Because the good guy / bad guy section states to list "Your" experience, good or bad about what "You" bought.
If he felt that he was treatly poorly when he contacted Atkins the more accurate thread would of been along this lines.
Atkins-Bad experience
Contacted them about a issue I had and was treated poorly.
But there still was no admissable purchase involved.
quickseven, The only thing that matters here is that you get your vehicle repaired and back on the road so you can enjoy it.
"Moral of the story is I'm bitter and just wanted to let everyone know".
I'm going to sum this up for everyone.
1). He bought a "Used" vehicle with a known Bad motor. (Coolant seal).
2). The motor would have to be torn down to fix this problem.
3). Cause of bad coolant seal unknown
4). Found bad rotor upon needed disassembly of motor to repair bad known coolant seals.
5). Have receipt provided by shop owner from Atkins rotary from 2 years ago from previous owners request for new motor
6). quickseven contacts Atkins Rotary about findings of bad rotor.
7). Atkins states that they cannot do anything without pictures.
8). This indicates some sort of a intent to research the matter so that a decision can be made if they(Atkins) can do something for quickseven
9) quickseven who has not paid anything for this rebuilt motor
10)quickseven knows that he is going to have to pay for the rebuilding of this motor by the shop that he has taken it to.
I would have to say those above statements are what we know as facts.
What we don't know.
1). The conversation between Atkins and quickseven as far as the context.
obviously he did not contact them to just tell him that he had a bad rotor from a motor that he said was one of theirs.
2)This is evident by quicksevens statement that Atkins could not do anything without pictures. Meaning there must have been something said that indicated that he would like to see what they could do about it. That is asking for something.
My theory on this and only my theory is that quickseven has been advised from someone(unknown) that he should contact Atkins Rotary and see if they were willing to do something to help out.
And after doing this did not get the results that he had hoped for left the above beginning quote.
Is this normal, Yes.
Do I believe that it is correct, No.
But that is my opinion based on the fact that quickseven never paid for a rebuild from Atkins in the first place.
Is it unfortunate that this particular engine was rebuilt with a questionable part
that cannot be confirmed was indeed installed by Atkins. Yes.
Meaning unless the engine had been returned to Atkins for disassembly or another witness (outside) had viewed the actual disassembly of the motor.
After verifying that all stamps, etc absolutly without a doubt showed that it was originally rebuilt by Atkins.
And Atkins or this outside witness saw the rotor being removed from the motor
could it be stated 100% that the rotor in the presented picture was the one that came out of the motor.
Now in no way am I stating that the disassembler of this motor in anyway substituted the rotor pictured from anyother removed from the engine.
All this has to be taken on faith. But is not a 100% known fact unless Atkins had a opportunity to witness the teardown of the motor.
What does this whole book I have written mean?
It means that the accused party, Atkins was never contacted before the teardown of the engine in question.
Therefore not giving them an opportunity to be involved from the start as to what the new shop was intending to do concerning this Atkins motor.
What they did receive was info after the fact informing that they must have installed a unsatisfactory part in their engine 2 years previously. Then (assuming) that the contact person was asking what are they going to do for him.
For the record. I am not defending Atkins. They have to handle this as they see fit.
What I was pointing out from the beginning is that quickseven never purchased this engine from them. Therfore he should of never contacted Atkins about this issue. Because the good guy / bad guy section states to list "Your" experience, good or bad about what "You" bought.
If he felt that he was treatly poorly when he contacted Atkins the more accurate thread would of been along this lines.
Atkins-Bad experience
Contacted them about a issue I had and was treated poorly.
But there still was no admissable purchase involved.
quickseven, The only thing that matters here is that you get your vehicle repaired and back on the road so you can enjoy it.
03-17-07, 06:21 AM
#43
Savanna Rx-7
What a bunch of retards
after reading the entire thread...twice... i do not even know whay the moderators have not removed it... not locked, not stopped.... removed it.
this guy did not even buy the engine from them, so how can he even post in the good guy/bad guy forum about it?
who gives a **** what is in the motor, who cares how much he might or might not have to pay whomever to rebuild it?
[SIZE=4]HE DID NOT BUY IT FORM THEM, HENCE HE HAS NO RIGHT TO CLAIM GOOD OR BAD ABOUT THEM [/SIZE]
this is just a case of being a full blown whiner/emo type who did not get what he wanted, a free ride
kenn
this guy did not even buy the engine from them, so how can he even post in the good guy/bad guy forum about it?
who gives a **** what is in the motor, who cares how much he might or might not have to pay whomever to rebuild it?
[SIZE=4]HE DID NOT BUY IT FORM THEM, HENCE HE HAS NO RIGHT TO CLAIM GOOD OR BAD ABOUT THEM [/SIZE]
this is just a case of being a full blown whiner/emo type who did not get what he wanted, a free ride
kenn
03-17-07, 06:33 AM
#44
Back to the DrawingBoard.
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a 2004 engine.....is 2007, a lot of things can happen, do some research before start some bad threats about people, i have a 1993 fd, a few engines so far....i should blame Mazda for
03-17-07, 08:05 AM
#45
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FACT Atkins is known for building some crappy engines
FACT atkins would NEVER fess up to this weather it is 1 day or 1 year old
FACT atkins does not have to respond to the thread poster
FACT this still does not mean that this is NOT an atkins motor
FACT just because atkins is a vendor he should still have to live up to the expectations of any vendor or sales guy and can still receive good OR BAD feedback
FACT this guy has a legit story just its hard to prove... that does not mean his story is NOT legit.
FACT if one builder says it is a atkins motor, says it is bad, then it is mostlikley bad
FACT that rotor did NOT get that way in 1000 miles no matter what caused the engine to blow that rotor should have NEVER been put in any rebuild!
FACT if I was a rebuilder I would not install the rotor into any engine even if the owner said to thats the integrity of the business u have there.
FACT this will NEVER be agreed upon so lets just close this thread and go our seperate ways.
FACT atkins would NEVER fess up to this weather it is 1 day or 1 year old
FACT atkins does not have to respond to the thread poster
FACT this still does not mean that this is NOT an atkins motor
FACT just because atkins is a vendor he should still have to live up to the expectations of any vendor or sales guy and can still receive good OR BAD feedback
FACT this guy has a legit story just its hard to prove... that does not mean his story is NOT legit.
FACT if one builder says it is a atkins motor, says it is bad, then it is mostlikley bad
FACT that rotor did NOT get that way in 1000 miles no matter what caused the engine to blow that rotor should have NEVER been put in any rebuild!
FACT if I was a rebuilder I would not install the rotor into any engine even if the owner said to thats the integrity of the business u have there.
FACT this will NEVER be agreed upon so lets just close this thread and go our seperate ways.
03-17-07, 10:06 AM
#46
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by kenn_chan
after reading the entire thread...twice... i do not even know whay the moderators have not removed it... not locked, not stopped.... removed it.
this guy did not even buy the engine from them, so how can he even post in the good guy/bad guy forum about it?
who gives a **** what is in the motor, who cares how much he might or might not have to pay whomever to rebuild it?
[SIZE=4]HE DID NOT BUY IT FORM THEM, HENCE HE HAS NO RIGHT TO CLAIM GOOD OR BAD ABOUT THEM [/SIZE]
this is just a case of being a full blown whiner/emo type who did not get what he wanted, a free ride
kenn
this guy did not even buy the engine from them, so how can he even post in the good guy/bad guy forum about it?
who gives a **** what is in the motor, who cares how much he might or might not have to pay whomever to rebuild it?
[SIZE=4]HE DID NOT BUY IT FORM THEM, HENCE HE HAS NO RIGHT TO CLAIM GOOD OR BAD ABOUT THEM [/SIZE]
this is just a case of being a full blown whiner/emo type who did not get what he wanted, a free ride
kenn
+1 !!!!
please delete this useless thread!!!!
i think we need an emo section!
03-17-07, 08:36 PM
#47
Fact Atkins has a 2 year warrenty on motors. So no matter what went down, it is not resposible for it!
Originally Posted by SpooledupRacing
FACT Atkins is known for building some crappy engines
FACT atkins would NEVER fess up to this weather it is 1 day or 1 year old
FACT atkins does not have to respond to the thread poster
FACT this still does not mean that this is NOT an atkins motor
FACT just because atkins is a vendor he should still have to live up to the expectations of any vendor or sales guy and can still receive good OR BAD feedback
FACT this guy has a legit story just its hard to prove... that does not mean his story is NOT legit.
FACT if one builder says it is a atkins motor, says it is bad, then it is mostlikley bad
FACT that rotor did NOT get that way in 1000 miles no matter what caused the engine to blow that rotor should have NEVER been put in any rebuild!
FACT if I was a rebuilder I would not install the rotor into any engine even if the owner said to thats the integrity of the business u have there.
FACT this will NEVER be agreed upon so lets just close this thread and go our seperate ways.
FACT atkins would NEVER fess up to this weather it is 1 day or 1 year old
FACT atkins does not have to respond to the thread poster
FACT this still does not mean that this is NOT an atkins motor
FACT just because atkins is a vendor he should still have to live up to the expectations of any vendor or sales guy and can still receive good OR BAD feedback
FACT this guy has a legit story just its hard to prove... that does not mean his story is NOT legit.
FACT if one builder says it is a atkins motor, says it is bad, then it is mostlikley bad
FACT that rotor did NOT get that way in 1000 miles no matter what caused the engine to blow that rotor should have NEVER been put in any rebuild!
FACT if I was a rebuilder I would not install the rotor into any engine even if the owner said to thats the integrity of the business u have there.
FACT this will NEVER be agreed upon so lets just close this thread and go our seperate ways.
03-17-07, 10:42 PM
#48
Savanna Rx-7
Originally Posted by John64
Fact Atkins has a 2 year warrenty on motors. So no matter what went down, it is not resposible for it!
+1
and the only fact of all that have been listed is that the man did not buy it from atkins, so he has no warranty claim, and ne reason to do good guy/bad guy comments on it.
kenn
03-18-07, 12:05 AM
#49
Back to the bitching about the rotor. Again, nobody wants to open their engine and find a rough looking part. But, from a structural standpoint, the face of that rotor touches NOTHING in the engine. It does not even have to be precise. All the rotor does is house the seals. I will say it again. If all the seal slots have proper clearance, and the rotor doesnt have any cracks that let oil leak through the face, then it doesnt really matter how it looks. It's no different than modern piston engines with dishes and notched tops (for non-interference DOHC motors). The cutouts in the pistons look funny but have no bearing on performance, with the exception of compression ratio. This is a low compression ratio engine, so that's not a valid argument either.
The fact that this engine made good compression prior to teardown and none of the seals were warped or broken tells me that the rotor slots (and therefore the rotor itself) was fine.
I hold the opinion that if budget comes into play or there is no cleaner replacement rotor available when needed, such a rotor can be used with no ill consequences. No, it certainly wouldnt be my first choice, and I'd do what I could to avoid using one like that, but if it came down to it from a cost/time/supply standpoint, I could make a perfectly good running engine out of a rotor like that.
The fact that this engine made good compression prior to teardown and none of the seals were warped or broken tells me that the rotor slots (and therefore the rotor itself) was fine.
I hold the opinion that if budget comes into play or there is no cleaner replacement rotor available when needed, such a rotor can be used with no ill consequences. No, it certainly wouldnt be my first choice, and I'd do what I could to avoid using one like that, but if it came down to it from a cost/time/supply standpoint, I could make a perfectly good running engine out of a rotor like that.
03-18-07, 01:42 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
Back to the bitching about the rotor. Again, nobody wants to open their engine and find a rough looking part. But, from a structural standpoint, the face of that rotor touches NOTHING in the engine. It does not even have to be precise. All the rotor does is house the seals. I will say it again. If all the seal slots have proper clearance, and the rotor doesnt have any cracks that let oil leak through the face, then it doesnt really matter how it looks. It's no different than modern piston engines with dishes and notched tops (for non-interference DOHC motors). The cutouts in the pistons look funny but have no bearing on performance, with the exception of compression ratio. This is a low compression ratio engine, so that's not a valid argument either.
The fact that this engine made good compression prior to teardown and none of the seals were warped or broken tells me that the rotor slots (and therefore the rotor itself) was fine.
I hold the opinion that if budget comes into play or there is no cleaner replacement rotor available when needed, such a rotor can be used with no ill consequences. No, it certainly wouldnt be my first choice, and I'd do what I could to avoid using one like that, but if it came down to it from a cost/time/supply standpoint, I could make a perfectly good running engine out of a rotor like that.
The fact that this engine made good compression prior to teardown and none of the seals were warped or broken tells me that the rotor slots (and therefore the rotor itself) was fine.
I hold the opinion that if budget comes into play or there is no cleaner replacement rotor available when needed, such a rotor can be used with no ill consequences. No, it certainly wouldnt be my first choice, and I'd do what I could to avoid using one like that, but if it came down to it from a cost/time/supply standpoint, I could make a perfectly good running engine out of a rotor like that.
Happy st Patrick everybody