...which ECU is the best choice for NOW (2017)...?
12-29-16, 09:17 AM
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...which ECU is the best choice for NOW (2017)...?
Well, don't know how to name the thread correctly, but i think over time the best choice is changing, so i'm unsure which way to go NOW.
Years ago, there was the Apexi PFC, inexpensive compared to the other option, plug in to the oem harness, easy to understand (but limited at the same time plus the necessity of a DL). Even then, there were more professional and better options out there, for increased cost.
So i have done some research based on the follwing engine specs:
- single turbo
- 4 to 6 or 8 injectors
- later addition of a DBW throttle
- rotary-suitable, of course (in best case for a 3 or 4 rotor too, you never know...)
- controllable fuel-pump, electric water pump, fans, water spray
- boost control
- IGN-1A coils
- built-in map sensor, 4 bar (i want to go as high as 2 bar with a fully studded, dowelled engine)
- option to add an aftermarket dash (options: AIM MXS strada, racepak/Haltech iq3 street, Race Technologies Dash2)
I will some up the options i found and what i think about them:
- Adaptronic Modular PNP: brand new, a lot people seems to go with that, support i called very good and fast (despite i'm still waiting for my adaptronic forum confirmation after nearly 2 weeks, lol), built in 4bar map sensor, DBW throllte seems possible, control of water pump etc. seems no problem with pwm (only minus is necessity of a solid state relay which is a bit expensive at 80 dollars), plug and play to the oem harness, one big minus (otherwise that would be my clear choice) is the impossibilty to integrate a dash easily. Yes, the Dash2 is an (fairly cheap) option, but i don't like how it looks. Some tried to impement the Haltech/racepak but it seems you cant use the usb-port then, all around no easy plug in, and i couldn't even find anything about the AIM MXS, which is by far the one i would opt for - thats not just horrible, but total bullshit...
So i was looking for options...
- Link Fury/Extreme at least, perhaps even the Storm (or the Link G4+ plug in, too)
- Haltech Elite 1500/ Platinum Sport 1000
- Wolf v550
- Motec M130 (a bit over the top given its very high price)
are what i found ECUs that have about the same funtions as the Modular, plus, all of these have either CAN or any output to communicate with any of the mentioned dashes.
The only main difference is some are not plug-and play, so you need to go with a separate loom or a flying loom and finish it by yourself.
As my engine harness ('94 fd) is brittle and now has many unused wires in it, make or buy a new one is also on my list. I checked priced, the, what i found out, cheapest option is a rywire mil-spec loom at $649.
- Haltech Platinum 1000 with terminated harness/flying loom $1779/1449
- Haltech Elite 1500 with basic/premium harness kit $1679/1779
- Link G4 Extreme with flying loom and 4bar MAP sensor for approx. $1700
...despite the costs for finishing the harness by a professional if you can't do it yourself plus costs for connectors, i think some of these offer the better bang for the buck than the adaptronic.
If you think about renew your electrics and simplify that with a Motec PDM/Haltech Smartwire, the one or another is WAY better than the adaptronic, i guess.
Even if it sounds different, i'm not looking for drawbacks of the Modular, it just looks some of the other parties have better solutions if you want the best bang for the buck...
Years ago, there was the Apexi PFC, inexpensive compared to the other option, plug in to the oem harness, easy to understand (but limited at the same time plus the necessity of a DL). Even then, there were more professional and better options out there, for increased cost.
So i have done some research based on the follwing engine specs:
- single turbo
- 4 to 6 or 8 injectors
- later addition of a DBW throttle
- rotary-suitable, of course (in best case for a 3 or 4 rotor too, you never know...)
- controllable fuel-pump, electric water pump, fans, water spray
- boost control
- IGN-1A coils
- built-in map sensor, 4 bar (i want to go as high as 2 bar with a fully studded, dowelled engine)
- option to add an aftermarket dash (options: AIM MXS strada, racepak/Haltech iq3 street, Race Technologies Dash2)
I will some up the options i found and what i think about them:
- Adaptronic Modular PNP: brand new, a lot people seems to go with that, support i called very good and fast (despite i'm still waiting for my adaptronic forum confirmation after nearly 2 weeks, lol), built in 4bar map sensor, DBW throllte seems possible, control of water pump etc. seems no problem with pwm (only minus is necessity of a solid state relay which is a bit expensive at 80 dollars), plug and play to the oem harness, one big minus (otherwise that would be my clear choice) is the impossibilty to integrate a dash easily. Yes, the Dash2 is an (fairly cheap) option, but i don't like how it looks. Some tried to impement the Haltech/racepak but it seems you cant use the usb-port then, all around no easy plug in, and i couldn't even find anything about the AIM MXS, which is by far the one i would opt for - thats not just horrible, but total bullshit...
So i was looking for options...
- Link Fury/Extreme at least, perhaps even the Storm (or the Link G4+ plug in, too)
- Haltech Elite 1500/ Platinum Sport 1000
- Wolf v550
- Motec M130 (a bit over the top given its very high price)
are what i found ECUs that have about the same funtions as the Modular, plus, all of these have either CAN or any output to communicate with any of the mentioned dashes.
The only main difference is some are not plug-and play, so you need to go with a separate loom or a flying loom and finish it by yourself.
As my engine harness ('94 fd) is brittle and now has many unused wires in it, make or buy a new one is also on my list. I checked priced, the, what i found out, cheapest option is a rywire mil-spec loom at $649.
- Haltech Platinum 1000 with terminated harness/flying loom $1779/1449
- Haltech Elite 1500 with basic/premium harness kit $1679/1779
- Link G4 Extreme with flying loom and 4bar MAP sensor for approx. $1700
...despite the costs for finishing the harness by a professional if you can't do it yourself plus costs for connectors, i think some of these offer the better bang for the buck than the adaptronic.
If you think about renew your electrics and simplify that with a Motec PDM/Haltech Smartwire, the one or another is WAY better than the adaptronic, i guess.
Even if it sounds different, i'm not looking for drawbacks of the Modular, it just looks some of the other parties have better solutions if you want the best bang for the buck...
12-29-16, 11:33 AM
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...i have just mentioned that in the text.
Lets be honest: If you are want a PNP, you DEFINTELY will come to the point when you have to repair/replace your harness...spending approx. thousand dollars or more on the brittle oem one is not an option. So you will have to spend $650 for the Rywire or even more...i've heard from a friend who paid just over $1080 for a mil spec harness for his adaptronic.
I haven't checked prices for compete a flying loom but not afraid doing it by myself, and given the prices the other parties asking for these looms, it wouldn't be much more (i guess i could be much less), as example MicroTech is asking fo just $185 for the loom. Add connectors, some new sensors, of course.
So is Rewiring such a big deal you have to completely separate it? I don*t think so.
And, as explained, its also not much difference in price.
Lets be honest: If you are want a PNP, you DEFINTELY will come to the point when you have to repair/replace your harness...spending approx. thousand dollars or more on the brittle oem one is not an option. So you will have to spend $650 for the Rywire or even more...i've heard from a friend who paid just over $1080 for a mil spec harness for his adaptronic.
I haven't checked prices for compete a flying loom but not afraid doing it by myself, and given the prices the other parties asking for these looms, it wouldn't be much more (i guess i could be much less), as example MicroTech is asking fo just $185 for the loom. Add connectors, some new sensors, of course.
So is Rewiring such a big deal you have to completely separate it? I don*t think so.
And, as explained, its also not much difference in price.
12-30-16, 12:50 AM
#4
Unless you're tuning the ECU yourself I recommend contacting the tuner who you're planning to work with, tell them your goals and ask their recommendation. Another good idea might be to check the 'dyno results' section to see which ECUs have been proven to make the power you want to make. I would be very cautious about the Wolf v550... have you seen dyno charts or race results from anyone actually running one?
Regarding the engine wiring harness, building one from scratch of simply terminating the sensor-side connections of a loom is not easy. The components aren't cheap, the tools aren't cheap, plus the hours involved in planning and building a motorsports-quality harness means most of them will cost much more than the Rywire harness. Rywire harnesses often leave many sections unsealed, the lengths are usually close-but-not-correct, and the transitions are done in a way that is easy to manufacture but not-quite-right compared to what an experienced professional would do if you gave them your car and a better budget.
Building a good harness requires some knowledge of electronics (which gauge wire to use for the various circuits, which sensor wires need to be shielded), some knowledge of physics and mechanics (how to design to tolerate heat, vibration) and also some experience (what level of components and tools are needed to meet your budget and goals, or how to tell if the crimp you just made is good enough to avoid causing problems in the future). I'm not saying it can't be done, but an honest beginner's mistake or lack of knowledge in one of the multiple disciplines involved could destroy your engine. Whether you are going to do it yourself or just want to better understand what's involved, this site is a good resource for wiring materials, tools, and techniques: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
Regarding the engine wiring harness, building one from scratch of simply terminating the sensor-side connections of a loom is not easy. The components aren't cheap, the tools aren't cheap, plus the hours involved in planning and building a motorsports-quality harness means most of them will cost much more than the Rywire harness. Rywire harnesses often leave many sections unsealed, the lengths are usually close-but-not-correct, and the transitions are done in a way that is easy to manufacture but not-quite-right compared to what an experienced professional would do if you gave them your car and a better budget.
Building a good harness requires some knowledge of electronics (which gauge wire to use for the various circuits, which sensor wires need to be shielded), some knowledge of physics and mechanics (how to design to tolerate heat, vibration) and also some experience (what level of components and tools are needed to meet your budget and goals, or how to tell if the crimp you just made is good enough to avoid causing problems in the future). I'm not saying it can't be done, but an honest beginner's mistake or lack of knowledge in one of the multiple disciplines involved could destroy your engine. Whether you are going to do it yourself or just want to better understand what's involved, this site is a good resource for wiring materials, tools, and techniques: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
12-30-16, 06:43 AM
#5
My car has about 20k miles on it, so I'm not going to be spending 100 hours removing everything just to replace the perfectly good factory harness. As compared to the 10 minutes to swap out a PnP ECU and then start tuning immediately.
12-30-16, 07:23 AM
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Unless you're tuning the ECU yourself I recommend contacting the tuner who you're planning to work with, tell them your goals and ask their recommendation. Another good idea might be to check the 'dyno results' section to see which ECUs have been proven to make the power you want to make. I would be very cautious about the Wolf v550... have you seen dyno charts or race results from anyone actually running one
I have some knowlegde, but far from what i would call professional. The guy i would gave my car is basically an AEM guy tuning 2JZs...he will do one or another Adaptronic in the next time, but its not that he is suggesting them...
From what i know and see, if the software is good, the hardware is right, its just depends on the tuner and the tune... i think some recommend specific ECUs just for the reason they know exactly what to do and are firm with...and not that another ECU isn't equally good - i never heard of a pro who changed their preferred ECU from one moment to another...
Its hard to see (thats why i also wrote this thread) which ECU is preferred the most actually...i think its the Adaptronic modular, but i might be wrong...its just that from my research there are other equally good options like the Elite 1500 and the Link if you don't mind some costs for the harness...
And after i'm rebuilding my engine and go with a EFR9180, the last thing i want to save money is the ECU and the setup of that stuff...
Regarding the engine wiring harness, building one from scratch of simply terminating the sensor-side connections of a loom is not easy. The components aren't cheap, the tools aren't cheap, plus the hours involved in planning and building a motorsports-quality harness means most of them will cost much more than the Rywire harness. Rywire harnesses often leave many sections unsealed, the lengths are usually close-but-not-correct, and the transitions are done in a way that is easy to manufacture but not-quite-right compared to what an experienced professional would do if you gave them your car and a better budget.
Building a good harness requires some knowledge of electronics (which gauge wire to use for the various circuits, which sensor wires need to be shielded), some knowledge of physics and mechanics (how to design to tolerate heat, vibration) and also some experience (what level of components and tools are needed to meet your budget and goals, or how to tell if the crimp you just made is good enough to avoid causing problems in the future). I'm not saying it can't be done, but an honest beginner's mistake or lack of knowledge in one of the multiple disciplines involved could destroy your engine. Whether you are going to do it yourself or just want to better understand what's involved, this site is a good resource for wiring materials, tools, and techniques: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
What i don't know is choosing the right gauge and circuit, but one thing that would simplify that is i think the SmartWire or PDM...so you don't have to care about going around and calculation wich relay, circuit, fuse or whatever is needed. That would save some time and money, for the one who is doing the job. Thats one reason i want to choose the ECU wisely, so it will communicate without hiccups with that and the dash.
12-30-16, 07:26 AM
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) brittle and fragile harness...?
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12-31-16, 10:53 AM
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i went ECU hunting a couple of weeks ago, and i made a simple spreadsheet.
my car is an FC with an REW in it, so there is a row of the hardware i want to use, CAS, 6 injectors, FD metering pump, egt, etc
there are a few rows of additional stuff needed, cables, harnesses, wide band controllers, etc, with costs.
oh and having built a few harnesses, 100 hours is much more realistic than 50, it is a LOT of work.
my car is an FC with an REW in it, so there is a row of the hardware i want to use, CAS, 6 injectors, FD metering pump, egt, etc
there are a few rows of additional stuff needed, cables, harnesses, wide band controllers, etc, with costs.
oh and having built a few harnesses, 100 hours is much more realistic than 50, it is a LOT of work.
01-04-17, 03:52 AM
#9
I always ask customers to make a list of wants and needs. If you just want an ECU to reliably run the engine, there are many choices that work. If you need motorsport levels of traction control, for instance, the choices get pretty narrow. The obvious choices to me, with what you have listed as wants, would be Haltech Elite, AEM Infinity, or Syvecs. I don't have any experience with Link, but have always heard good things, so I can't say avoid them. Wolf I wouldn't touch with a 10ft stick. Motec is great, but prepare to pay the Motec tax.
As far as harnesses, you can do better than the Rywire harness. They're very limited in scope and don't offer any options for additional sensors or ECU connection. You'd basically spend money on their harness and then have to cut it apart to make it fit your application. There are better choices to make on that end.
Being in Germany, I'd recommend a good look at Syvecs. I can recommend a very good tuner over there as well.
As far as harnesses, you can do better than the Rywire harness. They're very limited in scope and don't offer any options for additional sensors or ECU connection. You'd basically spend money on their harness and then have to cut it apart to make it fit your application. There are better choices to make on that end.
Being in Germany, I'd recommend a good look at Syvecs. I can recommend a very good tuner over there as well.
01-06-17, 10:26 AM
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...thanks for the info, that is some input i was looking for...
right now, i have the Haltech 1500 and the Link Fury/Extreme (very similar, but some more options than the cheaper storm) in mind, couldn't pass on the Link, need some more info....
I had a look at syvecs. Didn't look bad, they also deliver a pdm i'm looking for, but it isn't easy to get prices...and from what i read, thats a heavy price tag...2500 pounds, thats more than $3000, and i'm not not if that even included a flying harness...thats definitely out of my range....
As you correctly noticed, i live in germany, so theres a general problem finding tuners...if you look for any tuner with experiences with one of the mentioned systems and RX-7, forget it. I know one guy in Berlin who is perhaps the no. 1 tuner for Supras (with AEM) in germany, and he had some experience with Adaptronic, so i will ask him at first...
right now, i have the Haltech 1500 and the Link Fury/Extreme (very similar, but some more options than the cheaper storm) in mind, couldn't pass on the Link, need some more info....
I had a look at syvecs. Didn't look bad, they also deliver a pdm i'm looking for, but it isn't easy to get prices...and from what i read, thats a heavy price tag...2500 pounds, thats more than $3000, and i'm not not if that even included a flying harness...thats definitely out of my range....
As you correctly noticed, i live in germany, so theres a general problem finding tuners...if you look for any tuner with experiences with one of the mentioned systems and RX-7, forget it. I know one guy in Berlin who is perhaps the no. 1 tuner for Supras (with AEM) in germany, and he had some experience with Adaptronic, so i will ask him at first...
01-11-17, 01:48 PM
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i had a chat with my tuner, he is fine with Haltech and Link, i'm tending a bit more to Link, because the Fury has not only a wideband-controller but also some more inputs and outputs to a lower price...i'll need to check which one does the better job with the implemented options like traction control and that stuff, before i make my choice.
also important is the integration of a dash and pdm...
also important is the integration of a dash and pdm...
05-14-19, 06:21 AM
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i had a chat with my tuner, he is fine with Haltech and Link, i'm tending a bit more to Link, because the Fury has not only a wideband-controller but also some more inputs and outputs to a lower price...i'll need to check which one does the better job with the implemented options like traction control and that stuff, before i make my choice.
also important is the integration of a dash and pdm...
also important is the integration of a dash and pdm...
My tuner seems to prefer LINK and PFC (a lot of the imported cars already have PFC installed so it's a cost-saving option), but says that they can also work with Haltech and Adaptronic.
I'm looking for something milder than you... keeping twins for now, but will eventually move on to a single turbo.
Advice/suggestions? Or any new entrants to the ECU market??
Thanks in advance!!
05-14-19, 09:44 PM
#13
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
BUMP... I am facing the exact same question that you faced 3 years ago... what did you end up with, if I may ask?
My tuner seems to prefer LINK and PFC (a lot of the imported cars already have PFC installed so it's a cost-saving option), but says that they can also work with Haltech and Adaptronic.
I'm looking for something milder than you... keeping twins for now, but will eventually move on to a single turbo.
Advice/suggestions? Or any new entrants to the ECU market??
Thanks in advance!!
My tuner seems to prefer LINK and PFC (a lot of the imported cars already have PFC installed so it's a cost-saving option), but says that they can also work with Haltech and Adaptronic.
I'm looking for something milder than you... keeping twins for now, but will eventually move on to a single turbo.
Advice/suggestions? Or any new entrants to the ECU market??
Thanks in advance!!
You're going to see more Haltech guys on here than anything. Fueltech is becoming very popular for drag racing applications. There's an Emtron thread I started on here ages ago that has a bunch of useful information in it for ECU configuration and capabilities.
Ideally though, you want to spend more in this department for the protection features and accuracy of the fuel/air models. PFC simply isn't up to modern standards since there aren't protections anywhere and these motors are incredibly fragile.
05-19-19, 11:58 AM
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Thanks, @RGHTBrainDesign and @mrselfdestruct1994 , super appreciate it!
Is there really any important difference between the Link and Haltech (at a similar price point) for an application like mine?
I am leaning toward those to, which seem to have the most support out here (in Hong Kong)... def. less support for the others. (besides PFC lol)
Is there really any important difference between the Link and Haltech (at a similar price point) for an application like mine?
I am leaning toward those to, which seem to have the most support out here (in Hong Kong)... def. less support for the others. (besides PFC lol)
05-19-19, 12:38 PM
#16
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thanks, @RGHTBrainDesign and @mrselfdestruct1994 , super appreciate it!
Is there really any important difference between the Link and Haltech (at a similar price point) for an application like mine?
I am leaning toward those to, which seem to have the most support out here (in Hong Kong)... def. less support for the others. (besides PFC lol)
Is there really any important difference between the Link and Haltech (at a similar price point) for an application like mine?
I am leaning toward those to, which seem to have the most support out here (in Hong Kong)... def. less support for the others. (besides PFC lol)
Enjoy. You'll find what works best for you that way.