mikey13b

Hi guys, I'm looking to buy a wideband and trying to find out which will be the best choice. I'll be using the new adaptronic modular ecu.
My tuner suggests the mtx-l, but sounds like innovates don't seem to last too long, so hoping to hear what you guys think.
Thanks

Mrmatt3465

iTrader: (10)

I'm actually looking into this as well currently. AEM and Innovate both use the Bosch 4.9LSU sensor. So really its a difference in controllers at that point. The AEM X-series is the one that I'm currently looking at.

cr-rex

iTrader: (114)

pretty much what matt said... they all use the same sensor. its just down to the gauge preference. there have been reports of some gauges reading a little high or a little low, being slow to respond, ect. ive been using the AEM UEGO as my first choice. in my cars i have the innovative, the zeitronix, UEGO 4.2 and 4.9. of the 4 cars they all have different gauges in them. im happy with them all. they all have the option for 0-5v so i can hook them up to the ecu for datalogging. its really just preference. youll be fine with whatever gauge you go with so long as its one of the major brands.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

...and a lesser known brand

14Point7 | High Performance Tuning Tools for High Performance Engines

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Still the best thing going in budget AFR meters. Order with any of the NTK sensors and enjoy.

https://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pr...oducts_id/2337

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

ok.. i couldnt possiblely see why you would want to spend twice on that unit over the AEM.. then you throw in that you would go on and spend another $50 to 50% more even @450? lab grade??
what the hell??
why?
how can it be better?
is my aem with 4.9LSU lying to me???
the reason for AEM over the innovate is the AEM instantly displays AFR while the LC-1 had to warm up for 10-15 seconds before trying to display anything..

peejay

I've nothing to add other than having used an LC-1 for a long time, then using an LC-2 in a few installs, the LC-2 has a lot of lag relative to the LC-1 which makes tuning transients maddening.

I'm not up on the alphanumerics, I think the LC-1 used the 4.2 sensor and the LC-2 uses the 4.9.

Of course, the LC-1 is discontinued...

The Innovates aren't unreliable. I've never had a controller failure. The SENSORS don't like it if you overheat them, but if you RTFM and install the sensor correctly, there's no issue. Threading it directly into the factory O2 hole will quickly result in a dead sensor.

peejay

That the sensor that FAST XFI uses, with an internal controller. I'm fairly well impressed by them, actually. Very quick response and they aren't fazed by leaded fuel.

mikey13b

What about the innovate MTX-L? Is it superior to the LC-2?

cr-rex

iTrader: (114)

the aem also goes through a warm up procedure. all widebands do. the only difference is that the aem doesnt display to you thats what its doing.

RGHTBrainDesign

This is exactly what I'll be using with the NTK Calibration Grade Sensor. Best bang for the buck.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Because I've used most all of them and know more than you've read on the internetz. AEM eats sensors like a fat kid eats Oreos. Anything Innovate O2 meter is a flaming pile of dog poop. You want something that is actually made by a company that specializes is O2 meters, produces lab grade meters for the OEs, and lasts longer than one tune? Go with an ECM product, like the Ballenger AFM. The money you save in replacement sensors for your AEM will quickly pay for a better overall sensor package.

The 4.9 sensor is nothing special. It's main update over the 4.2 is accuracy on the lean side of Lambda 1. Of no use to a performance tuner. The NTK sensors are still the gold standard and tolerate heat and leaded fuels much, much better than anything from Bosch. Quite simply they last and produce reliable results longer.

Or buy cheap **** and think you're saving a buck.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Bingo. Im doing the same thing too. I dont understand people who will spend thousands and thousands of dollars on motor/turbo setups and then cheap out on the single most important sensor for extended turbo engine health

RGHTBrainDesign

Most of those people have hack and slash builds too... Or eBay Intercoolers with baller *** JDM body kits. Bahahaha.

cstone94

iTrader: (3)

I use a PLX Devices wideband. Uses the BOSCH LSU4.9 sensor and you can piggyback off the control box to other sensors if you desire.

Wideband O2 Touch Screen Multi Guage | Vacuum & Boost

rogan

iTrader: (7)

Mr. Ludwig. What about the ntk afrm gen2 as an alternative to the ballenger motorsports afr500? It is $100 cheaper and also uses an NTK sensor, but I assume a lower end one.

Home » Shop » Wideband O2 » O2 Controller » NTK AFRM GEN2 - Air Fuel Ratio Monitor Kit - Wideband O2 - PN 90067 - w/ NTK Sensor

ninesixtwo

iTrader: (9)

Since when did spending an extra one or two hundred dollars on a budget wideband justify such elitism? The real test is not being able to open your wallet slightly further, but the ability to verify the accuracy of the data you are relying on to calibrate your engine. My personal NTK AFX as well as 2 others I know of read significantly richer than true AFR. I'm now running a cheaper LSU4.9 and my build is hardly "hack and slash."

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

​​​​​​What do you know is "true" AFR?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

They had some issues with the early versions. Forget what the deal was. Scared me off and we never went back.

ninesixtwo

iTrader: (9)

That's kinda the point I'm trying to make. In my experience, spending a slightly greater sum doesn't guarantee good data. We are still talking sub 400 dollar widebands here.

It's funny, a friend offered to lend me his Horiba when I mentioned to him that I suspected my wideband was off. I asked why he didn't need it. He said after checking all the available budget widebands to his, he just uses an Innovate now. No need to bust out the big Horiba for most stuff when the Innovate reads the exact same. Since then, I've come up with my own methodology for satisfying my concerns. I imagine you have your own as well, just as you have your own wbo2 controller preferences. I just don't understand the self-gratifying comments about "hack and slash" builds.

RGHTBrainDesign

If you read the quoted comment, you shouldn't have a problem following what I'm referring to.

**** it, I'll reiterate because I'm a nice guy:

People spend money on stupid ****. The recent fad of rattle can/plasti-dip junk builds with #NoFucksGiven stickers is a ******* crime in the automotive community. To zero in, THIS THREAD was about finding the BEST Wideband Lambda Sensor/Configuration to monitor the other aspects of a properly built car. We all came to the same conclusion.

My self-gratification is so warm though... Ugh, it's hard to see you down there.

mikey13b

I too would like to know if the NTK AFRM GEN2 is a good choice...

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If any of you guys are curious, Chrysler and many other OEMs use the ECM/Ballengar units in their labs. The other lab grade controller is by ETAS, which is a Bosch brand. It's very expensive. Horiba is known for their emissions analyzers rather than wideband controllers. Emissions benches can calculate AFR based on sampling the gas. It usually measures a little different than a wideband, but within about 0.3:1

All the wideband sensors are pretty close in reading, including the Denso sensors found on mass production vehicles. I've got a bunch of lab data that compares them. It mostly comes down to the controllers. I've never overheated a wideband with a lab grade controller (ECM or Bosch) using the same sensors everyone else here is using. And that's running up to almost 1000C temperatures.

Mrmatt3465

iTrader: (10)

To add to this thread, I got the AEM X-series wideband. I installed the sensor at an angle and 18" from my turbo exit. It read perfect with no issues for about 3-4 weeks. Now it will hang on heat up, intermittently read at 8.06 (full rich), and is just 30% of the time unreliable. My advice, skip the AEM for sure. Not sure if it's a sensor issue, or an overall issue. But if I had to buy again, I'd spend a bit more and get something a bit better.

matt

mikey13b

Probably will bite the bullet and get the afr500. Is there much benefit in getting the calibration grade sensor over the production grade? Or is production grade already good enough for a street car?