EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

It really doesn't matter what your experience is. We are comparing ecus not tuners

The AEM you are talking about has nothing to do with Adavnced Engine Management here in California. They have only two variations of their ECU, the Series I and the Series II. So all of what you are saying about AEM has nothing to do with the AEM I am referring to. AEM Electronics - Wideband O2 UEGO, Water/Methanol, Stand Alone Engine Management, Piggyback F/IC, Tru Boost Controller, Gauges, Automotive Performance Electronics 93'-95' RX-7 AEM Series II PnP EMS (MT Only)

No body, well I am the person telling you that your statements in this thread saying that the adaptronic is the best bang for the buck ECU in this market is completely FALSE.

The AEM does not need development for the RX7 Application. Everything was sorted out 10years ago when the first AEM RX7 ECU was released.

I don't need to make changes. They are not needed. If I am not here in 3years the 50+ employees from AEM will still be. If the one person from adaptronic is not here who else will be?

Yes. One owns a 94' FD RX7 the other used to work for Star Race cars(renesis powered formula cars) and owns a FC RX7. One of them even posts here from time to time.

The AEM does not need any engineering to make it work. It has already been sorted out. If you want to work directly with an engineer to sort out their issues that is your time wasted. Working with an individual to sort out your issue is a whole different story. I will be very happy driving my car while you are still on the forum dealing with your engineer sorting out hardware issues.

Neither are MoTeC, APEXi, Haltech, Microtech, or anything else. Are they supposed to be? Usually you go to the manufacture for support. They don't follow you until you need help.


How many rx7 select ECU sales do you think he would have if he wasn't here? Not many... I didn't say he won't be here in three years. I am just pointing out the fact that you relying on one individual many thousands of miles away via a forum. Is he on the Nissan, rx8, Toyota and whatever other platform he supports forums as well? What do those customers say about his support?

It is telling me AEM customers don't need help where all of the adaptronic people do.

I am unhappy with the answer. Why should someone buy an inferior ECU and have to help development via a forum just to sort out the bugs? I am not a vendor. I am not allowed to do what Andy does. That will change soon.

At no point did you address the hardware and software comparisons between the ecus. All you did was trash talk a different ECU. When the BMI crew needed an ECU for their 4rotor drift car they used an AEM series II. They used the same ECU that comes in the Tri-Point PnP kits. The ECU did not require any custom modifications to make work. It did not need special help, it worked. What would it take to get a 4 rotor tun run on the Select ECU?

EB Turbo

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

I agree that bumpstart is referring to the wrong AEM and it is unfortunate that people in Australia will automatically dismiss the AEM Series I or II because of this.

EB Turbo, can you send me your basemap for the AEM Series 2 PnP so that I can play with the software?

The fact that AEM does not make a RX7 specific model of the Series II (but they do for both the turbo and non-turbo Supra, 300ZX TT, 3000GT VR-4, R32/R33 GT-R's, Evo's, S2000, etc, etc) and the fact that I can't find a single RX-7 basemap anywhere on the internet does not help the "AEM supports the RX-7" argument.

It seems like they did the work to make a Series I ecu...they didn't sell as well as expected (probably because of tuners not knowing both rotaries and the AEM EMS)...so they said F it this time around.

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

I cannot give out our base maps but I can provide an RX7 workspace with a generic basemap for you to play with. The customer will receive a basemap with specifics for their car when they purchase a kit. We don't just post them online.

AEM supports is platform. The RX7 has already been figured out and the only issues you may in counter will be software bugs or customer learning questions. These are common for all of the AEM ecus. Almost all of your questions will not be rx7 specific.

EB Turbo

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Thanks, a generic basemap with the RX7 work space is all I need. I just want to mess with the software setup for the RX7 specifically. If you can email it to gen3_rx7@hotmail.com, that would be awesome.

Also, I understand why you don't just post specific mod maps online...but why not one that will run a bone stock RX7 like what most plug and play ecu's come with?

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

I will send the info when I get into the shop tomorrow. If anyone else wants the same info you can pm me.

The adapter harness and base maps were all developed by Tri-Point. We don't just give out our proprietary info unless you buy a kit. We have no problem giving out testing info for you check out the software.

EB Turbo

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Sent, Where did bumpstart go?

EB Turbo

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Thanks...I'll check it out.

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Have you had a chance to go through it?

EB Turbo

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Been a busy week. I got it installed, opened the RX-7 workspace, and have familiarized myself with the interface, but not much more. I'm going to check it out more thoroughly this weekend.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Might I add that the PFC is still the most popular out of all of these because of

1) Inertia... it's been around a long time and Rx-7's are out of production. There's lots of info for it.
2) It operates the rats nest, sequential turbo, and staged injection stuff in a mostly stock fashion right out of the box

People aren't buying it because of its software adjustability, low price (when you include the needed Datalogit), or hardware features (usable inputs and outputs). In that regard, basically all the other options in this thread have it beaten.

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

I like adaptronic, a person with very little tuning experience can tune it and save lots of tuner money, aem more complicated, I only use series 1 aem,

adaptronic advantage over series 1 aem
owner that's active and forum vendor, handles threads very fast and professionally,
he does not attach his ecu brand to topics with other ecu's that pick up momentum in sales and popularity for marketing
on adaptronic I hook headphones and listen for knock, I can tune with ignition off even with ecu unplugged from harness, ve great and very fast self tuning, serial input for wideband and more,

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo...-fd3s-1029382/

I also think adaptronic is great bang for the buck

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

The adaptronic is just as complicated. Once you understand what needs to happen the AEM is really straight forward. This is the same for the adaptronic. If you do not understand the menus or how things need to work you will have trouble.

These are the statements that bug me. You are making a subjective statement with no facts to back it up. The AEM support on here, The AEM forums and directly through AEM's tech supprt phone line is the same as what adaptronic has to offer. Does Adaptronic have a Tech line?

He cant. He would need a better product to be able to do that. I am not trying to gain momentum for the AEM. I am just trying to shed light on the fact that the adaptronic is not as good as it is lead to be. I am always comparing apples to apples and the adaptronic is always at the bottom of the barrel.

I am not going to take away from the adaptronics features. Some of them are nice. In the entire package its strengths are not enough to really hold the ECU above the rest.

It is easy to take someone with little experience and have them give the best or worst feedback on a given product. For the experienced tuner reading this thread doesnt really mean much. What about the things that didnt work? does the owner know of them? Even further down the thread one of the Adaptronic vendors said you still need to take it to the dyno and have it tuned. Where is the thread from a real professional tuner praising the adaptronic for all of it control and ability?

Here is another subjective statement. If you compare it to the other ecus in its market and take into consideration the issues that it has it will definitely not be on top. You can say "it is good for its money" but you will also need to accompany that statement with "but there are a few more that are better".

I welcome you to provide as many facts that will disprove any of my statements in any of these threads.

EB Turbo

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

Also on aem if you decide to change to ffe hall or back to reluctor trigger wheel setup, u need to open the aem box to change jumpers on board,

if you want to change ignition coil trigger setups you also need to open the ecu box and split the fragile circuit board to move jumpers around.

You can do this with few clicks on adaptronic software

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

On aem you don't have built in map sensor, so extra expense to buy the sensor, harness plug and configure it in the software,

Adaptronic comes with 4 bar map sensor that is very well filtered and already set up in the software

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

This is 12 screws and about 10min max. If that is too complicated then you might as well run an Adaptronic.

This is not true. The FD PnP kit comes with 6 coil drivers ready to be used. Also the board is not fragile. I have never know someone to damage a board when servicing it. When purchasing a kit you have the option to request these modifications to be done for you.

The stock MAP goes to 17psi. Lets say you want to run 25psi of boost. On a 4 bar MAP sensor you are only using 46% of the map sensor range. You do not have the ability to scale your own load breakpoints. So you are reducing your load resolution significantly. You will now have load breakpoints every 4.6psi. You will loose the top 7 rows of your fuel map. That is a 43% reduction in fuel table resolution.

In the AEM you have more load resolution in the fuel table to begin with. you can use a 3bar sensor. You can you 57% of the sensor range. Changing the map sensor in the Series II is as easy as Wizard > map sensor > then select from the 22 available calibrated sensors. Once selected the ecu automatically recalculates the load breakpoints and auto scales all of the tables that have load as a variable. If I want I can scale my load breakpoints. I can set my max manifold pressure to 30psi. Ican also change the scale to give myself more resolution in specific areas arouns boost targets or driveability areas. with a linear scale I will have load breakpoints every 2.3psi. That is a lot better that every 4.6psi? now lets do the load scaling into your 5x4 split timing table and your 5x4 lambda target table. LOL good luck with that. You can get a GM 3bar map sensor and a PnP adapter for the FD for less than $100.

Any thing else?

EB Turbo

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

Yep 10 min splitting the circuit board and warranty is gone lol,

So u are telling me if you get different coils and switch between rising and falling you don't need to move jumpers inside the circuit boards?

Dont get me wrong I love aem have it on my turbo integra, have couple 1050 boxes, tried running it long time ago on my rx7 tech support told me they can't help and its your own science project, tried again recently with the 60 trigger wheel could not get help to set it up,

So I went with adaptronic and I am glad I did,
Worked with few ecu's and this was the easiest and fastest to get a clean cruise and load tune

Also before you comment on adaptronic get one and work with it first, you can scale the fuel table on adaptronic map sensor at 30 psi every 3psi and 300rpm wich is more than enough

JhnRx7

iTrader: (12)

I have a series II unit on my FD. When I had issues getting my new FFE Hall effect sensor to read I contacted AEM Tech support. Beau from AEM went above and beyond to help me diagnose the issue... Issue ended up being a broken pin inside the connector. Works flawlessly now.

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

Well i am glad they stepped up their support for plug and play ecu's on different engine and and car setups, I guess loosing sales to proefi, haltech and now adaptronic hurts lol,
As you can see they show their feelings on forums by bashing other products,
How professional

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

If you call tech support and they document you opening the board to move a jumper your warranty will not get void. If you have an authorized AEM dealer do it you will not get voided. When you buy the FD series II the warranty is not void. You can even send the ECU in and it will not be voided.

If switching between rising and falling edge triggers you do need to switch the jumpers. In the case of the FD PNP kit all of the jumpers are already switched to falling edge. If adding a coil you will not need to move any jumpers.

When have you ever seen anyone use dumb coils in an FD application? the common coils are LSX and AEM Smart coils. Both have built in igniters. The only time you see dumb coils used is when some changes to a different standalone that is not PnP and that is what the manufacture recommends. and even then they still have you use an igniter.

Key word "long time ago". Within the past 3 years they had fixed all of the issues with the original Series I ecus and they Have two people on staff who are very competent with the FD platform. If you call and ask for rotary support that they cannot provide, they will give you my phone number. This stuff isn't rocket science.

Now when switching to a different trigger wheel the manufacture of the wheel will provide you with all of the documentation needed to set it up correctly.

This is probably because don't know how to tune in the first place. Anyone that relies on an auto tune feature to tune must not understand how tuning works.

I have seen it work. I am not impressed. I would have to spend way more time figuring things out just to get the car to a proper working condition before I would tune the car and consider my work satisfactory.

Please enlighten me how to do this. There is no table to define breakpoints. You can only select which map sensor you want to reference. There is not even a help file to explain anything.

Are those your only things to pick at? You weren't even comparing apples to apples. You are talking about 1 generation older ecu that you used years ago. and that ecu has been discontinued for almost 2 years. Please come up with something good next time. I will wait...

EB Turbo

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

Honestly AEM Sales could care less about the RX7 application. They sell more Honda ecus in one month then they did the entire RX7 line. That is why there is no PnP FD ECU. If you go and add up all of the Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Toyota sales it is way more than any of those other ECU companies could ever hope for. The new generation of AEM ECU will be the best in the market only rivaled by MoTeC M1 line, Pectel, and a few other one off EMS companies. and it will be done at almost half of the cost of the other ECUs.

How am I bashing the Adaptronic ECU. All I am doing is stating the fact that adaptronic and its customers claim "We offer the highest performance, most powerful ECUs in their price range.". This so far off it is not even funny. I think you just need to admit to yourself you could have had a Ferrari for your Honda price tag.

EB Turbo

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

Well iv tuned my own cars for many years with few different ecus that didnt have auto tune feature, i still managed to get better time (consistent times in high 6 seconds 1/8 mile races) tuning on street and track and cleaner drivebility than a reputable tuner tuning it on the dyno couple of times, lol

But any how you know I dont know how to tune, maybe you should change your shop to palm reading lol

I am not in tuning cars or mechanic business and I am not promoting one ecu over the other, I have had both aem and a adaptronic, also had ferrari and honda lol

In my line of work i never bashed my competitors i always complimented them and used other marketing strategies,

How ever best of luck on your business
And hope you expend to other ecu's also and not limit your self to a discontinued product

Peace

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

All you are telling me is that you have no faith in the people around you. Its hard to fly like an eagle when you are surrounded by turkey's, am I right??

I am only making observations based on things I have seen you say. I stand behind my previous comments.

That's not what it looks like to me..

I want to thank Adaptronic on making such an amazing product that they can come into a dieing market and get a bunch of people to go from one piece of junk(PFC) to the Adaptronic without actually looking at what they were buying. I wish I could offer a sub par product and get a bunch of people to buy it.

It is like the blind leading the blind here. I am just trying to show you the light..

My product is far from being discontinued. and Your welcome..

EB Turbo

Asalam o alikum

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

tony94s4

iTrader: (1)

Waalaikum salam

0110-M-P

iTrader: (10)

Let me clarify a few things based on my observations...

AEM
- Hands down the more powerful and capable ecu, if you don't believe this then you are kidding yourself. The extra inputs/outputs and the complex logic that you can configure using them, the ability to control staged injection fully, all of the safety features that you can implement, the ability to fully control auxilary injection, etc.
- The software is MUCH better. You can actually use CTRL+Z to undo a recently changed cell, you can use the "=" and "-" keys to increase and decrease the values in each cell. You can resize, move, add/delete windows as you please which is very helpful. It actually runs faster on my slow *** netbook than WARI does.
- It is CAN capable, not just serial.
- All the bugs are already worked out.

Adaptronic
- It does come with a 4-bar map sensor internally and yes you can scale it to get better resolution on you maps (can do the same with rpm). But you cannot scale it infinitely...you set the max boost you want to see in the map tables and it scales it based off that number. (Also, as far as I know, you have to manually scale the maps when you make this kind of change).
- It has a headphone input to listen to knock sensor directly
- The serial input for connecting wideband o2 and egt sensors is VERY convenient and allows extra inputs
- The product is being continually developed, so more input from the rotary community can go into the product to make it better for this application.

As far as cost goes...they are very competitive ($1350 vs $1450) if you are ok using your stock MAP sensor (which most people are). If you are sure you need a "bigger" MAP sensor, then add $60-$100 to the AEM cost to pick up a GM 3-bar. Configuring it should be a non-issue as EB Turbo said.

Other than that. It is annoying that you have to call and document the opening of your ecu case as to avoid voiding your warranty with the AEM, but opening up a case and switching a jumper around is a complete non-issue considering the amount of work it takes to swap out the trigger wheel on the engine.

This is all coming from someone who purchased an Adaptronic Select unit, but is currently on the fence about that decision because of how much more capable the AEM unit can be.