The OFFICIAL drift setup thread
08-20-10, 04:57 PM
#476
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I will once again bring up the FC vs. S13 cool factor. Stick with the FC. just get stiffer shocks or coilovers. these cars are bias in the middle rather then an S13 which is biased towards the front. you need to control them differently. general noob rule around here is don't get knuckles for more angle until you can drift maxed out with the stock angle. take some time and learn the car and remember that your shocks are old! first thing you need to do, your cut springs aren't doing that much good if your shocks are stock. if your car has pwr steering then yes fix it. if it's manual steering from factory then just run it.
ok first of all ive done plenty of full lock drifts i was just wondering if the car was whipping around because of sloppy suspension or some magical fc B.S.
ok first of all ive done plenty of full lock drifts i was just wondering if the car was whipping around because of sloppy suspension or some magical fc B.S.
08-20-10, 06:48 PM
#477
Sideways is the only way
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^little of both as I read your current mods. the 50/50 weight distribution means the car will initiate faster then a S13 simply because the rotating length is shorter. you got me? but just get some kyb agx shocks or some coilovers and it should help a little. also, I heard 10k F, 8K R coilovers are a good way to go.
If you can lock while drifting now then ya, get knuckles. You will be able to keep the car at bigger angle with them obviously. Go to a track and try removing your rear sway bar to calm down your whipping. You should probably be running aftermarket shocks or coils when trying this as your suspension then becomes your sway bar in a sense but I don't think it would hurt the car trying it the way it is now. LOTS of people drift with no rear sway bar in FC's.fact. It is proven to calm down whip as it takes a little bit longer for the weight to transfer on initiation. But its an old car, quite possible that plenty of bushings are worn out. just make sure your wheel bearings,ball joints, tie rod ends,etc are in check as well and you should be good. the DTSS is what hurts the most when the are worn but you've already got the eliminators.
btw, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know what you were doing or didn't know how to drift. just some general knowledge I have been told be people who know what they're doing.
If you can lock while drifting now then ya, get knuckles. You will be able to keep the car at bigger angle with them obviously. Go to a track and try removing your rear sway bar to calm down your whipping. You should probably be running aftermarket shocks or coils when trying this as your suspension then becomes your sway bar in a sense but I don't think it would hurt the car trying it the way it is now. LOTS of people drift with no rear sway bar in FC's.fact. It is proven to calm down whip as it takes a little bit longer for the weight to transfer on initiation. But its an old car, quite possible that plenty of bushings are worn out. just make sure your wheel bearings,ball joints, tie rod ends,etc are in check as well and you should be good. the DTSS is what hurts the most when the are worn but you've already got the eliminators.
btw, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know what you were doing or didn't know how to drift. just some general knowledge I have been told be people who know what they're doing.
08-21-10, 12:39 AM
#478
slip angle, slip angle, slip angle body roll, body roll, body roll.
Center of the car is the point of rotation.
Chassis is fairly light (and it's ******* flexy...not super flexy but when i have the car jacked up in the front or in the rear, the doors never want to close without an angry slam...which is ok. I love the angry slam.)
Rear suspension is archaic swing arm multi link and the way it's designed, your wheel base changes based on ride height, travel.....etc....
Know thy weapon. Learn to wield it. Upgrade when it fails to kill the way you like to.
Center of the car is the point of rotation.
Chassis is fairly light (and it's ******* flexy...not super flexy but when i have the car jacked up in the front or in the rear, the doors never want to close without an angry slam...which is ok. I love the angry slam.)
Rear suspension is archaic swing arm multi link and the way it's designed, your wheel base changes based on ride height, travel.....etc....
Know thy weapon. Learn to wield it. Upgrade when it fails to kill the way you like to.
08-22-10, 12:25 PM
#479
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btw, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know what you were doing or didn't know how to drift. just some general knowledge I have been told be people who know what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
alright i didnt mean to be an *** about it i was making a point and how would removing the rear sway bar help isnt it to reduce spin?
alright i didnt mean to be an *** about it i was making a point and how would removing the rear sway bar help isnt it to reduce spin?
08-24-10, 05:58 PM
#480
Sideways is the only way
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rear sway bar makes your chassis stiffer in the back so taking it out makes it so the weight transfer goes through your springs and suspension setup and makes the transition of inertial force slightly slower. the sway bars purpose is to transfer your inertial force quickly as to keep the chassis stiff BUT since our cars already have quick whip as you've noticed, the sway bar can be removed when drifting. put it back on for normal driving on streets though because it does reduce sway in a straight line. Just try it out and if you don't like it or it doesn't help then put it back on. Keep in mind that most people that do this do run coilovers so I hope someone will chime in here. I think this was stated earlier in this thread somewhere, read the whole thing if you haven't yet. 
08-24-10, 06:02 PM
#481
Sideways is the only way
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main thing too, just learn the car. if you start counter steering a little sooner or faster then that might help. you might have to try initiating slower if that makes sense to you. if you're clutch kicking then try giving it a little less throttle right after the initial kick maybe, same thing for e-braking. I also know it is hard to keep them tires spinning so just practice and mess around with it. Like I said, this car is a lot different then an s13.
08-27-10, 04:21 PM
#482
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Sway Bars are more complicated than that - kind of. Im pretty sure you know what your talking about FC fan (please dont shoot me, not intending to sound like an ****) but i dont think you explained it very well.
The sway bar essentially ties to the two sides of the car together. Easiest analogy is to say we have a sway bar with Zero flex or twist. In this case, if for example the left side rear would raise say 2 inch, the sway bar would then transfer this IMMEDIATELY and make the right raise two inches also.
The Sway bar was invented to keep cars flat under cornering. Basically as the car loads up on the outside tyre, the tyre effectively raises using the chassis of the car as the reference plane. So in order to keep the car flat, if we could transfer this, then the inside of the car would also take some of the load as transfered by a sway bar.
As FC Fan has stated, a sway bar, or increasing the sway bar stiffness is similar to increasing suspension stiffness (but not chassis stifness, a bit different) but its how it interacts with the two sides that is the problem.
I think the issue here is that the stock sway bars have a fair amount of torsional twist in them, and during the drift (before transition) you have the weighted outside tyre and then the sway bar transfering this weight and effectively trying to lift in the side tyre (not unweighting it, gravity is a constant bitch!). When you transition, its usually a violet and instand thing, which doesnt alloy the (previously) inside tyre to react fast enough from its previously 'lifted' position to its now weighted and high position.
So effectively, the tyre doesn't have the correct weight or downforce on it for the instant that we violently transfer, making the tranfer that much more freaking harder to control.
Now if we were smart enough, i think that if we could increase the spring and shock rates to be exactly the same overall stiffness without the sway as with it, that this would be far better as you are allowing each individual side to move completely independant of eachother and thus remove the bitch of a phenominon that i discussed above...
I hope this all makes sense
The sway bar essentially ties to the two sides of the car together. Easiest analogy is to say we have a sway bar with Zero flex or twist. In this case, if for example the left side rear would raise say 2 inch, the sway bar would then transfer this IMMEDIATELY and make the right raise two inches also.
The Sway bar was invented to keep cars flat under cornering. Basically as the car loads up on the outside tyre, the tyre effectively raises using the chassis of the car as the reference plane. So in order to keep the car flat, if we could transfer this, then the inside of the car would also take some of the load as transfered by a sway bar.
As FC Fan has stated, a sway bar, or increasing the sway bar stiffness is similar to increasing suspension stiffness (but not chassis stifness, a bit different) but its how it interacts with the two sides that is the problem.
I think the issue here is that the stock sway bars have a fair amount of torsional twist in them, and during the drift (before transition) you have the weighted outside tyre and then the sway bar transfering this weight and effectively trying to lift in the side tyre (not unweighting it, gravity is a constant bitch!). When you transition, its usually a violet and instand thing, which doesnt alloy the (previously) inside tyre to react fast enough from its previously 'lifted' position to its now weighted and high position.
So effectively, the tyre doesn't have the correct weight or downforce on it for the instant that we violently transfer, making the tranfer that much more freaking harder to control.
Now if we were smart enough, i think that if we could increase the spring and shock rates to be exactly the same overall stiffness without the sway as with it, that this would be far better as you are allowing each individual side to move completely independant of eachother and thus remove the bitch of a phenominon that i discussed above...
I hope this all makes sense
08-27-10, 08:27 PM
#483
Sideways is the only way
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drifthacks1-The way you stated it may be more accurate but it is a little harder to follow (for me anyway). I am no pro by far and have said that I am only relaying info given to me by "pro's" based on my conversations, experience, and research. The main thing to know is that removing the rear sway bar slows down the rotation of the car on initiation a little, it's not a huge difference but enough to help. you basically said the same thing I did in a more complicated and detailed way (not a bad thing). the inertial weight is moved through the sway bar. if you take it out, the inertial weight is then only moved through the chassis and suspension making it more indirect and therefore slowing the process of weight transfer down.lol, I think this is getting way too complicated.
he should just try it with rear sway and without and see if it makes a difference. I know some of the good FC drifters do it so it has to do something good. personally though, his suspension is making it harder. chopped springs lower the center of gravity but they are still stock spring rates and shocks. that is going to effect your car the most for drifting other then wheels/tires and power to a lesser degree. but you can drift anything with practice.
bump up the tire pressure to around 50 psi in the rear to get the rear end a little happier too if you are not yet. its all subjective though, these are just things to try. you decide for yourself if you like the effects or not.
he should just try it with rear sway and without and see if it makes a difference. I know some of the good FC drifters do it so it has to do something good. personally though, his suspension is making it harder. chopped springs lower the center of gravity but they are still stock spring rates and shocks. that is going to effect your car the most for drifting other then wheels/tires and power to a lesser degree. but you can drift anything with practice.
bump up the tire pressure to around 50 psi in the rear to get the rear end a little happier too if you are not yet. its all subjective though, these are just things to try. you decide for yourself if you like the effects or not.
08-30-10, 12:44 AM
#484
Grabbin My Wankel
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Has Anyone had any transmission problems other than what you would normally get from 20yr old transmissions? I was wondering if any of the experienced guys (especially with powerful cars) find themselves going through transmissions or have you done a swap to something stronger (Supra R154, GTO T56, Mustang T5, Built Gearboxes etc..)
Thanks
Thanks
08-30-10, 06:22 PM
#485
Has Anyone had any transmission problems other than what you would normally get from 20yr old transmissions? I was wondering if any of the experienced guys (especially with powerful cars) find themselves going through transmissions or have you done a swap to something stronger (Supra R154, GTO T56, Mustang T5, Built Gearboxes etc..)
Thanks
Thanks
09-03-10, 07:43 AM
#486
Sideways is the only way
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t2 tranny's are stronger then na trannys and I have been told that if you get the turbo driveline that it will bolt up to the na motor. so the t2 tranny can handle a little more but drifting is hell on trannys, especially if you're an avid clutch kicker. I haven't heard of too many swaps being done other then andrew (sunburn user name) and his 4 spd nascar tranny. if you go v8 then there are lots of swaps people do for tranny.
09-03-10, 08:37 AM
#487
Grabbin My Wankel
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I'm afraid that I'm going to see transmission problems in the 350+ hp range. Mine is from 1987. I'm just looking for a future solution. The jerico does seem like a great solution.
How do people mount the Jerico? Custom adapter plate between the tranny and bell housing?
09-08-10, 03:02 AM
#490
No idea. My translator broke.....
I do know their ano purple parts give me a ******* crazy woody. I mean, even though you wont see half of that ****, just knowing it's there is awesome.
My welded diff annoys me. I want all their control arm/motor mount/deco/subframe ****. ALL OF IT! That has nothing to do with my diff or your post but damn. Gotta admit it looks GOOD.
I"ve yet to slide or initiate with the roll bars in yet. I drove my car around the block, to the gas station, to work, back home from work for my 30 minute break, back to work, home again and didn't do a single clutch kick. I suppose it's different when you're OBLIGATED to not break stuff KNOWING you dont have money for replacement parts on hand anymore.
I do know their ano purple parts give me a ******* crazy woody. I mean, even though you wont see half of that ****, just knowing it's there is awesome.
My welded diff annoys me. I want all their control arm/motor mount/deco/subframe ****. ALL OF IT! That has nothing to do with my diff or your post but damn. Gotta admit it looks GOOD.
I"ve yet to slide or initiate with the roll bars in yet. I drove my car around the block, to the gas station, to work, back home from work for my 30 minute break, back to work, home again and didn't do a single clutch kick. I suppose it's different when you're OBLIGATED to not break stuff KNOWING you dont have money for replacement parts on hand anymore.
09-08-10, 03:14 AM
#491
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Starting off
Finally I am able to post
Soooo, I suppose I had better be useful... or at least ask a decent question.
I have owned 8 Rx-7's (81',86',94',88',88',92',88', and finally my 88.') and finally I have something worth completing. It is only because of the number of cars I've owned that I have any knowledge at all. I am not a mechanic or a racer. I am, however a very quick learner and an able "tinkerer." I have experience drifting only on the street (mall parking lots) and none in any technical sense. I know in a general way what I am doing behind the wheel and under the hood - I'm confident and cautious. All of that being said, I need some help. I don't know where to go from my current set up mechanically and I need technical advice as far as drifting. I don't want to just start clutch kicking, heel-toeing and ripping on my e-brake. I have spent too much time and money (blood, sweat and tears) on this current car to go out and break something.
So, in a couple sentences my question is this; My goal is to compete in drift events, so am I on the right track with my current set up? And; Where do I go from here - both under the hood (so to speak) and behind the wheel?
Here is my current vehicle;
1988 GTU
Suspension:
Megan coilovers with 8kg front and 6kg rear springs
mazdaspeed front and rear strut brace bars
Brakes:
stock
Engine:
rebuilt, street ported s4 13b-T
3mm apex seals
Complete emissions delete
Proper eg, etc. block offs
Bnr stage 3 turbo
Corksport front mount intercooler
Corksport full 3in exhaust with 2.5in dp
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Stock injectors
Stock TII ECU
Set @ 5.5psi
Stock everything else
Drivetrain:
Exedy stage 2 clutch
Stock everything else
Wheel/tire:
S MR7s
17x8.5 front, 17x9.5 rear
Michelin Pilot
215/40/r17 front 255/40/zr17 rear
Interior/Monitoring:
Blitz turbo timer
ProSport Boost, Tach, Water Temp Gauges
N/A Gauges
Soooo, I suppose I had better be useful... or at least ask a decent question.I have owned 8 Rx-7's (81',86',94',88',88',92',88', and finally my 88.') and finally I have something worth completing. It is only because of the number of cars I've owned that I have any knowledge at all. I am not a mechanic or a racer. I am, however a very quick learner and an able "tinkerer." I have experience drifting only on the street (mall parking lots) and none in any technical sense. I know in a general way what I am doing behind the wheel and under the hood - I'm confident and cautious. All of that being said, I need some help. I don't know where to go from my current set up mechanically and I need technical advice as far as drifting. I don't want to just start clutch kicking, heel-toeing and ripping on my e-brake. I have spent too much time and money (blood, sweat and tears) on this current car to go out and break something.
So, in a couple sentences my question is this; My goal is to compete in drift events, so am I on the right track with my current set up? And; Where do I go from here - both under the hood (so to speak) and behind the wheel?
Here is my current vehicle;
1988 GTU
Suspension:
Megan coilovers with 8kg front and 6kg rear springs
mazdaspeed front and rear strut brace bars
Brakes:
stock
Engine:
rebuilt, street ported s4 13b-T
3mm apex seals
Complete emissions delete
Proper eg, etc. block offs
Bnr stage 3 turbo
Corksport front mount intercooler
Corksport full 3in exhaust with 2.5in dp
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Stock injectors
Stock TII ECU
Set @ 5.5psi
Stock everything else
Drivetrain:
Exedy stage 2 clutch
Stock everything else
Wheel/tire:
S MR7s
17x8.5 front, 17x9.5 rear
Michelin Pilot
215/40/r17 front 255/40/zr17 rear
Interior/Monitoring:
Blitz turbo timer
ProSport Boost, Tach, Water Temp Gauges
N/A Gauges
09-08-10, 03:48 PM
#492
Grabbin My Wankel
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Random Question.... What LSD gear oil do people use. I put a Kaaz in my car, so I use the Kaaz oil, but are there better/worse options out there? If so, what makes them better or worse?
Thanks
Thanks
09-08-10, 09:27 PM
#493
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Chassis is fairly light (and it's ******* flexy...not super flexy but when i have the car jacked up in the front or in the rear, the doors never want to close without an angry slam...which is ok. I love the angry slam.)
haha i think we all kno how u feel. i have to convince my dad everytime i jack the car up that nothing is wrong.
Know thy weapon. Learn to wield it. Upgrade when it fails to kill the way you like to.
haha i think we all kno how u feel. i have to convince my dad everytime i jack the car up that nothing is wrong.
Know thy weapon. Learn to wield it. Upgrade when it fails to kill the way you like to.
09-08-10, 10:02 PM
#494
Grabbin My Wankel
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My 87 TII.
Suspension:
Tein Super Drift coilovers with 8kg front and 6kg rear springs
Mazdatrix DTSS eliminator kit
Tein EDFC
Depowered 15.2 Steering rack
Efni Strut bar
Secret Element Tie rods
Brakes:
T2 Calipers
EBC Red Stuff Pads
Spin Turn ****
Brembo Rotors
SS brake lines
Engine:
Stockport jspec 13b-t
650 pri and 1000 sec
Microtech LT-10
GT35R Turbo
HKS Cast Manifold
HKS 40mm wastegate
Stealth mounted FMIC
Apexi WS II Muffler
HKS BOV
Koyo Radiator
Lincoln VIII Electric fan
FD Alternator
Drivetrain:
Southbend OFE Clutch
Kaaz 1.5 LSD
Mazdatrix short shifter
S5 T2 Transmission
Wheel/tire:
XXR 552
17x8 +35 Front and rear
Nexen N3000 225/45/17
Interior:
Recaro Seats
NRG Harness Bar
Sparco Harness
Nardi Steering Wheel
RX8 Shift ****
Defi Gauges
Greddy Gauges
Defi Link
The next things I want to upgrade are the cooling components. I want to go V-mount and upgrade to dual oil coolers from the stock single. I'm not sure where to go after that. Probably going to the suspension and steering with adjustable arms.
Suspension:
Tein Super Drift coilovers with 8kg front and 6kg rear springs
Mazdatrix DTSS eliminator kit
Tein EDFC
Depowered 15.2 Steering rack
Efni Strut bar
Secret Element Tie rods
Brakes:
T2 Calipers
EBC Red Stuff Pads
Spin Turn ****
Brembo Rotors
SS brake lines
Engine:
Stockport jspec 13b-t
650 pri and 1000 sec
Microtech LT-10
GT35R Turbo
HKS Cast Manifold
HKS 40mm wastegate
Stealth mounted FMIC
Apexi WS II Muffler
HKS BOV
Koyo Radiator
Lincoln VIII Electric fan
FD Alternator
Drivetrain:
Southbend OFE Clutch
Kaaz 1.5 LSD
Mazdatrix short shifter
S5 T2 Transmission
Wheel/tire:
XXR 552
17x8 +35 Front and rear
Nexen N3000 225/45/17
Interior:
Recaro Seats
NRG Harness Bar
Sparco Harness
Nardi Steering Wheel
RX8 Shift ****
Defi Gauges
Greddy Gauges
Defi Link
The next things I want to upgrade are the cooling components. I want to go V-mount and upgrade to dual oil coolers from the stock single. I'm not sure where to go after that. Probably going to the suspension and steering with adjustable arms.
09-11-10, 01:45 AM
#495
Bumpstops.
I have none. I know i've bottomed out my drivers side front shock atleast 3 times now. It's the same ******* dip and i'm an idiot because i keep hitting it.
Need something cheap and fast. Skateboard bushings do the trick?
Also, my car is making me hate life. Everything ******* rattles being this low. It's not from engine vibration (my exhaust issue is but that's a different post) but i really feel like i need to upgrade some ****.
Open to suggestions.
My idea was this:
Buy some tubing, make an exhaust that doesn't ******* hit everything
Run bump stops on my coils so i dont bottom out (one way adjustable/ride height only beat to **** jic's)
Solid motor mounts and trans mounts
Sound like a plan?
I have none. I know i've bottomed out my drivers side front shock atleast 3 times now. It's the same ******* dip and i'm an idiot because i keep hitting it.
Need something cheap and fast. Skateboard bushings do the trick?
Also, my car is making me hate life. Everything ******* rattles being this low. It's not from engine vibration (my exhaust issue is but that's a different post) but i really feel like i need to upgrade some ****.
Open to suggestions.
My idea was this:
Buy some tubing, make an exhaust that doesn't ******* hit everything
Run bump stops on my coils so i dont bottom out (one way adjustable/ride height only beat to **** jic's)
Solid motor mounts and trans mounts
Sound like a plan?
09-11-10, 08:07 AM
#497
Grabbin My Wankel
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I have heard that solid motor mounts make a car vibrate like crazy. I use urethane on my FD with no problems and as far as a cheap solution goes I have heard of people using hockey pucks as motor mounts.
09-11-10, 11:44 AM
#498
its supposed to do that
+1 on hockey pucks. They will transmit quite a bit more vibration, but way less than a solid mount. I have been using them for years. If you go this route use a long through-bolt to hold the stack(engine mount-washer-puck-washer-body mount) together with a nylock nut on the end. I am unfamiliar with 2nd gen motor mounts, but I assume they are similar enough.