DGRR Car Show Issues
05-10-11, 10:14 AM
#76
You get my vote for no car show.
I enjoyed wandering around and looking at all the setups in ALL of the vehicles. Some were to my tastes and some were not. I'd argue that the meet and greet is enough on its own and frankly, for me, after seeing that it goes on for 4 hours or so, I'd rather look around for an hour and get on the Dragon. I saw enough of everyone's cars at Fontana Dam!
Edit: I'd like it mentioned that Goodfella is a Micro Fiber cloth thief! I need to neg feedback him! =D
I enjoyed wandering around and looking at all the setups in ALL of the vehicles. Some were to my tastes and some were not. I'd argue that the meet and greet is enough on its own and frankly, for me, after seeing that it goes on for 4 hours or so, I'd rather look around for an hour and get on the Dragon. I saw enough of everyone's cars at Fontana Dam!
Edit: I'd like it mentioned that Goodfella is a Micro Fiber cloth thief! I need to neg feedback him! =D
05-10-11, 10:16 AM
#77
hey phil... more driving and hanging out... no trophies... no judges... if people want to see a certain car, they can track down the owner and check it out... i do like the dam pictures...
i do like the pics of all the cars in different curves of the dragon... different over looks... maybe people post up their sky way drives next year... or get groups for rafting...
i do like the pics of all the cars in different curves of the dragon... different over looks... maybe people post up their sky way drives next year... or get groups for rafting...
05-10-11, 11:03 AM
#81
You guys do understand, No car show, No Jaro Sisters 
My ultimate goal for DGRR is to turn it into "Hot Import on the Dragon" (HID).
Joking aside, I know people keep saying 'Driving'... but reality is that (like the first 2 years), you can only drive so much... I know 1st year people complained to me about how they only made 8 round trip passes on the dragon and it wasn't enough.. Well, I could tell you, I'm good for maybe 2 round trip and I'm done for the day.
What I really like is hanging out and 'some' driving. But not getting to drive for the past 4 years isn't good either.
I'm hoping to have a good balance so you are not doing just one thing all the time... If you want just driving, then track day is for you. The event is already pretty fast going event from Friday morning til Saturday night... This is about showing off what you have done to your car, helping and talking to people, and building a community. It sucks that the car show thing this year is pulling the community apart.. and hence I'm 90% that I'm just going to eliminate car show.
BUT, I hope people will still show up at the Saturday gathering and hang out instead of going out to the dragon.. I know more newb DGRR attendees go out and drive vs. hanging out and checking out the cars.. But its only 3-4 hours of it. If you want to drive, get to the area couple of days in advance and drive.
My ultimate goal for DGRR is to turn it into "Hot Import on the Dragon" (HID).
Joking aside, I know people keep saying 'Driving'... but reality is that (like the first 2 years), you can only drive so much... I know 1st year people complained to me about how they only made 8 round trip passes on the dragon and it wasn't enough.. Well, I could tell you, I'm good for maybe 2 round trip and I'm done for the day.
What I really like is hanging out and 'some' driving. But not getting to drive for the past 4 years isn't good either.
I'm hoping to have a good balance so you are not doing just one thing all the time... If you want just driving, then track day is for you. The event is already pretty fast going event from Friday morning til Saturday night... This is about showing off what you have done to your car, helping and talking to people, and building a community. It sucks that the car show thing this year is pulling the community apart.. and hence I'm 90% that I'm just going to eliminate car show.
BUT, I hope people will still show up at the Saturday gathering and hang out instead of going out to the dragon.. I know more newb DGRR attendees go out and drive vs. hanging out and checking out the cars.. But its only 3-4 hours of it. If you want to drive, get to the area couple of days in advance and drive.
05-10-11, 11:19 AM
#82
plus one on gordons response..
for those who insist drivin... set up a track date...
no offense to phil but these cruises are nice but lets bring back the old rotary meets when they were track.. autocross.. drag events..
although marred by controversy.. the best rotary event ive ever been with was the midohio gathering in the late 90s..
if folks want to win something.. set it up as a time trial for the road course event... autocross and drag can be done through classifications..
use the show portion as points towards their race results.. im partial to a car that can both show and go..
my two pennies..
for those who insist drivin... set up a track date...
no offense to phil but these cruises are nice but lets bring back the old rotary meets when they were track.. autocross.. drag events..
although marred by controversy.. the best rotary event ive ever been with was the midohio gathering in the late 90s..
if folks want to win something.. set it up as a time trial for the road course event... autocross and drag can be done through classifications..
use the show portion as points towards their race results.. im partial to a car that can both show and go..
my two pennies..
05-10-11, 12:16 PM
#83
No offense taken here...
You are right, if you want to drive and push your car, I say spend 150-400 and do a weekend at a track. Or start doing a time trial events.
I've always said, DGRR is a cheap event for rotary guys to hang out and drive on some very unique roads. Its like this... I used to be a runner back in the days and some of the best runs I had was through the hill sides of TN with friends (best was after a winter storm 1993, jumping over fallen trees). Running on the track or treadmill became tiresome and boring. I consider DGRR to be similar thing.. Its not really about 'competing' to see who's the fastest but more so of enjoying the 'run'. Just as running on the oval 1/4 mile track is safer because no cars that could hit you vs. on the street. Public roads such as US129 has its own danger associated with it vs. closed track like Mid Ohio or Road ATL.
Bottom line, track vs. mountain side of TN/NC is different. You come to the event such as DGRR for what it is.. like I said, running around your local high school track or do your run through scenic roads with some amazing views. Realize what you want to do it do it... or do both if you have time.
You are right, if you want to drive and push your car, I say spend 150-400 and do a weekend at a track. Or start doing a time trial events.
I've always said, DGRR is a cheap event for rotary guys to hang out and drive on some very unique roads. Its like this... I used to be a runner back in the days and some of the best runs I had was through the hill sides of TN with friends (best was after a winter storm 1993, jumping over fallen trees). Running on the track or treadmill became tiresome and boring. I consider DGRR to be similar thing.. Its not really about 'competing' to see who's the fastest but more so of enjoying the 'run'. Just as running on the oval 1/4 mile track is safer because no cars that could hit you vs. on the street. Public roads such as US129 has its own danger associated with it vs. closed track like Mid Ohio or Road ATL.
Bottom line, track vs. mountain side of TN/NC is different. You come to the event such as DGRR for what it is.. like I said, running around your local high school track or do your run through scenic roads with some amazing views. Realize what you want to do it do it... or do both if you have time.
05-10-11, 01:57 PM
#85
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DGRR isn't about trophys or who won what. DGRR is about people who love rotarys and maybe even ex-rotarys....(sometimes) talking and being able to appericiate each others hard work and love on/for there car. For me DGRR is like my christmas and for people to complain they didn't get a trophy or that their car is nicer than his/hers is just disappointing to me everyone of us are grown and need to act like it. Rich hands down had the best car this year. This event can't be easy to put together and I appericiate phil and everyone else who has a part in it doing what they do for us. I have been the last 3 years and will return every year it exists because its nice to talk to someone about my car without explainin how it works and why it floods so easy lol and I learn things from the older guys every year. It is a great event phil I'm already planning for next year! Also I apologize to anyone caught behind the integra during the weekend (he won't be returning with us in the future)
05-10-11, 02:15 PM
#86
I think David, Eddie, and Kevin had the brake scare lol. Good thing David moved to the left anticipating my hard braking and I moved to the right andticipating Kevin's hard braking and despite the noise and dust cloud, Kevin stopped in time to not hit me.
Brakes in working order? CHECK
Heads up driving? CHECK
Brakes in working order? CHECK
Heads up driving? CHECK
05-10-11, 02:54 PM
#87
Phil, my advise to you is that you don't change a thing, its your event and you run it like you want to! If people have an issue with it, they have the option of not attending.
if i were to vote, i vote for no car show. the friday morning/afternoon drive could be repeated on saturday. that drive was incredibly fun with the exception of what Kevin (Gringo Grande) refered to in a previous post.
i must admit i am guilty of passing in the "no passing zone" but i could no help it, the cars in front of me were going like 15mph? That white FB was awesome, the only time i pulled away from him was in the straights and that's only cause i have more power than him. once we got back into the twisties, he was right back on my ***! real cool guys too.
if i were to vote, i vote for no car show. the friday morning/afternoon drive could be repeated on saturday. that drive was incredibly fun with the exception of what Kevin (Gringo Grande) refered to in a previous post.
i must admit i am guilty of passing in the "no passing zone" but i could no help it, the cars in front of me were going like 15mph? That white FB was awesome, the only time i pulled away from him was in the straights and that's only cause i have more power than him. once we got back into the twisties, he was right back on my ***! real cool guys too.
05-10-11, 04:50 PM
#90
Phil, my advice to you is that you don't change a thing, its your event and you run it like you want to! If people have an issue with it, they have the option of not attending but I'll bet everyone had such a good time DGRR will continue to grow.
I am not into the whole show scene nor have a show car but the community showing its appreciation for the hard work and attention to detail is something I would hate to lose.
I know I always have a blast and meet new people each year and will continue to do so with or without the show.
I am not into the whole show scene nor have a show car but the community showing its appreciation for the hard work and attention to detail is something I would hate to lose.
I know I always have a blast and meet new people each year and will continue to do so with or without the show.
05-13-11, 10:13 AM
#91
That white FB was awesome, the only time i pulled away from him was in the straights and that's only cause i have more power than him. once we got back into the twisties, he was right back on my ***! real cool guys too
I certainly would not want to impede anyone from a day of fun on the Dragon!
As for myself I want to give a big Thank You to Phil and I hope it continues next year. This was my first time and I had an absolute ball, no complaints from me at all. Everyone was great and I will be back car show or no. (It does give a break from the stresses of driving though.)
Anyway
Thank You Phill, and all the volunteers, thanks to you guys, I had a ball!!!!!!
05-13-11, 03:58 PM
#92
Hi Robert this is M.C. it was good meeting you and talking to you about how you set up your rack kit and used the 20:1 ratio rack I am interested in how your car works out with more ackerman if you can get it better maybe RE-Speed will develop some new outer arms to perfect the kits out there now.
05-16-11, 10:52 PM
#94
I have honestly had enough of this Car Show issue.
Although lots of valid points have been made, the FINAL decision lies with Phil since it's HIS event and only HE can control how he wants to run it.
It is up to ONE person and ONE person only if they want to attend and be a part of the Car Show and that is YOURSELF...
As I have stated before, I have made MY OWN decision to NOT attend the car show portion anymore because I sincerely enjoy driving the mountain roads over being in the parking lot for 4 hours. Being that I am from Florida, roads like that are NOT the norm for me.
I built my FD, YES... I built my FD.... and the reason I built it was to drive the **** out of it. I did ALL the wrenching on it and I want to enjoy what I built. I take it to the 1/4 mile track at least 2 times a month and drive it hard everytime I take it out. I decided years ago that I would no longer have a TRAILER QUEEN. I've been there and done that and to be 100% honest it was NOT fun owning a Show Car that was never driven due to the fear of something happening to it..
So in closing..... I want to say THANKS to Phil for hosting a GREAT event.... I will support it as long as I can.
I am stepping off my soap box now...
Joe
Although lots of valid points have been made, the FINAL decision lies with Phil since it's HIS event and only HE can control how he wants to run it.
It is up to ONE person and ONE person only if they want to attend and be a part of the Car Show and that is YOURSELF...
As I have stated before, I have made MY OWN decision to NOT attend the car show portion anymore because I sincerely enjoy driving the mountain roads over being in the parking lot for 4 hours. Being that I am from Florida, roads like that are NOT the norm for me.
I built my FD, YES... I built my FD.... and the reason I built it was to drive the **** out of it. I did ALL the wrenching on it and I want to enjoy what I built. I take it to the 1/4 mile track at least 2 times a month and drive it hard everytime I take it out. I decided years ago that I would no longer have a TRAILER QUEEN. I've been there and done that and to be 100% honest it was NOT fun owning a Show Car that was never driven due to the fear of something happening to it..
So in closing..... I want to say THANKS to Phil for hosting a GREAT event.... I will support it as long as I can.
I am stepping off my soap box now...
Joe
05-19-11, 01:12 PM
#96
As a first timer to DGRR, here is my perspective…
The Tail of the Dragon is great to drive on. The road to the resort is good too. Fontana Resort is almost too close to the Dragon, for me. And we’re close to Bryson City, too.
As much as the Dragon is fun, I don’t think I could drive it all day, back and forth. It’s nice to break it up with other events, like the Mitty, the Skyway cruise and the car show. Plus, having other activities going on allows people to do other things at other times so the Dragon doesn’t turn into a traffic jam.
Let’s keep the car show. Let’s improve it. Don’t give up. That’s the rotary way.
Some have commented that the parking lot was too small or the car show took too long. Can I suggest a way to address both these issues? Let’s have the various Rotary Generations staged and judged at different times. Example, FB assemble across the road from 7-8am; At 8am, move the FBs to the main parking lot for judging, while the FC’s get staged across the road until 9am. This way the FBs are only tied up for two hours and then they can enjoy the rest of the day. And spectators interested in a certain gen can schedule to be there during that time frame. If people get there just before the hour, they can see two gens at once, one being judged and one being staged.
My RX7 is my summer car. It’s my hobby. I’m proud of it and I like to show it off. But after driving the day before in the rain, it was dirty. I wasn’t going to spend half a day washing and detailing it. I gave it a 10 minute rinse and wipe, but still opted out of the car show.
Like any rotary event, it’s nice to meet various people and their cars and see what direction they are going as their car mature. ‘This guy is staying completely stock, that guy has got the biggest turbo, he is doing something different that I’ve never seen before’. And then I ask the owner WHY; ‘why a 3 rotor or a V8 conversion, where did you get that thingie; I want one’. ‘Oh, I made it, I bought it, it’s JDM.’ These people are friendly, knowledgeable and willing to share info. And I would not have met them if they didn’t pop their hood and show off their car. I look forward to the car show for these reasons; to see the cars up close and talk to the owner.
Because cars tend to evolve in different directions and I, for one, like to see this variety, can I make another suggestion? Let’s encourage this diversity and inspire people to move in those directions. Let’s have judging criteria and offer trophies to reflect modifications. Example, within the FC group, offer three awards: most upgraded engine bay (Power), most upgraded interior and exterior (Style) , most true to stock (OEM). Where would Pebble Beach Concours be if we don’t honour OEM?
Unfortunately, the nature of judging and trophies make it competitive and then people’s feelings get hurt. But we also should encourage people who have done some wild and impressive things to come out and share at this event. Offering a trophy could add to the incentive to participate.
Lastly, by publishing the judging criteria before the event, people can anticipate their chances of winning in a specific category. And judges bias can hopefully be minimized by quantifying the score.
This is what Phil has done. Good Job, Phil.
The Tail of the Dragon is great to drive on. The road to the resort is good too. Fontana Resort is almost too close to the Dragon, for me. And we’re close to Bryson City, too.
As much as the Dragon is fun, I don’t think I could drive it all day, back and forth. It’s nice to break it up with other events, like the Mitty, the Skyway cruise and the car show. Plus, having other activities going on allows people to do other things at other times so the Dragon doesn’t turn into a traffic jam.
Let’s keep the car show. Let’s improve it. Don’t give up. That’s the rotary way.
Some have commented that the parking lot was too small or the car show took too long. Can I suggest a way to address both these issues? Let’s have the various Rotary Generations staged and judged at different times. Example, FB assemble across the road from 7-8am; At 8am, move the FBs to the main parking lot for judging, while the FC’s get staged across the road until 9am. This way the FBs are only tied up for two hours and then they can enjoy the rest of the day. And spectators interested in a certain gen can schedule to be there during that time frame. If people get there just before the hour, they can see two gens at once, one being judged and one being staged.
My RX7 is my summer car. It’s my hobby. I’m proud of it and I like to show it off. But after driving the day before in the rain, it was dirty. I wasn’t going to spend half a day washing and detailing it. I gave it a 10 minute rinse and wipe, but still opted out of the car show.
Like any rotary event, it’s nice to meet various people and their cars and see what direction they are going as their car mature. ‘This guy is staying completely stock, that guy has got the biggest turbo, he is doing something different that I’ve never seen before’. And then I ask the owner WHY; ‘why a 3 rotor or a V8 conversion, where did you get that thingie; I want one’. ‘Oh, I made it, I bought it, it’s JDM.’ These people are friendly, knowledgeable and willing to share info. And I would not have met them if they didn’t pop their hood and show off their car. I look forward to the car show for these reasons; to see the cars up close and talk to the owner.
Because cars tend to evolve in different directions and I, for one, like to see this variety, can I make another suggestion? Let’s encourage this diversity and inspire people to move in those directions. Let’s have judging criteria and offer trophies to reflect modifications. Example, within the FC group, offer three awards: most upgraded engine bay (Power), most upgraded interior and exterior (Style) , most true to stock (OEM). Where would Pebble Beach Concours be if we don’t honour OEM?
Unfortunately, the nature of judging and trophies make it competitive and then people’s feelings get hurt. But we also should encourage people who have done some wild and impressive things to come out and share at this event. Offering a trophy could add to the incentive to participate.
Lastly, by publishing the judging criteria before the event, people can anticipate their chances of winning in a specific category. And judges bias can hopefully be minimized by quantifying the score.
This is what Phil has done. Good Job, Phil.
05-20-11, 07:37 AM
#97
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[I built my FD, YES... I built my FD.... and the reason I built it was to drive the **** out of it. I did ALL the wrenching on it and I want to enjoy what I built. I take it to the 1/4 mile track at least 2 times a month and drive it hard everytime I take it out. I decided years ago that I would no longer have a TRAILER QUEEN. I've been there and done that and to be 100% honest it was NOT fun owning a Show Car that was never driven due to the fear of something happening to it..
Joe, you have a fantastic car!! Keep up the good work and as a previous MB owner, I love your FD, it was one of the cleanest MB I have seen along side with Phils!!
I would also encourage having a "car show". It is part of the DGRR culture and since inception, the car show is what brings all the people together as a whole. It is what separates the "rotary group" from the rest of the other groups like "Porsche, Minis, etc." Although winning trophies/awards are second in nature, the car show is a time for people to gather in groups to reflect on each others' hard work and pride & job; this is where bondings between fellow rotaryheads take place. It is where people who is foreign to the rotary world feels welcomed and accepted and learn about rotary cars such as my friend Mike (yellow porsche guy) who has nothing but good to tell the rest of the world what a wonderful event DGRR has becoming, and will be selling his 911 for an FD!! (LOL)
I vote for the car show and strongly encourage Phil to continue to improve it and refine it. It should not be a mandatory event, people can still choose to run the dragon/skyway etc. But the "car show" for the lack of better terms serves a much bigger purpose and what DGRR is all about!! This is "Where all the rotaries reunit!!"
Marco
Joe, you have a fantastic car!! Keep up the good work and as a previous MB owner, I love your FD, it was one of the cleanest MB I have seen along side with Phils!!
I would also encourage having a "car show". It is part of the DGRR culture and since inception, the car show is what brings all the people together as a whole. It is what separates the "rotary group" from the rest of the other groups like "Porsche, Minis, etc." Although winning trophies/awards are second in nature, the car show is a time for people to gather in groups to reflect on each others' hard work and pride & job; this is where bondings between fellow rotaryheads take place. It is where people who is foreign to the rotary world feels welcomed and accepted and learn about rotary cars such as my friend Mike (yellow porsche guy) who has nothing but good to tell the rest of the world what a wonderful event DGRR has becoming, and will be selling his 911 for an FD!! (LOL)
I vote for the car show and strongly encourage Phil to continue to improve it and refine it. It should not be a mandatory event, people can still choose to run the dragon/skyway etc. But the "car show" for the lack of better terms serves a much bigger purpose and what DGRR is all about!! This is "Where all the rotaries reunit!!"
Marco
05-20-11, 08:19 PM
#98
My name has been thrown around a lot on this thread. Just to clear some things up - For those of you that were first timers at DGRR -i.e Gordon - since you seem to be the one having the biggest issue of me being a car show judge - I have been a car show judge every year that I have gone (4-5 I believe) - even when I had my own FD last year. So I guess the past 4-5 years were biased then, huh? Far from it. You know why I have been a car show judge? B/c I know how much time and hard work Phil and others put into this event and I offer to help them out. I go out of my way to help them out. And b/c Phil and the organizers respect my opinion, as they do with all the car show judges they choose. Also on a side note I voiced my opinion serval times to Phil and others that there should have been a 20B category, but at that point it was too late. You live and you learn.
Brother or no brother Rich's car is more than deserving to win best of show and get featured in modified - and so were so many other cars - that's what people are missing here. I didn't have time to eat all day b/c the judging was so intense and competitive - there were so many nice cars it made judging very difficult.
I personally didn't agree with some of the winning FDs and I had my own opinion and choices written down of who I believed deserved to win, but at the end of the day so did every other judge. We came together to make what we all felt as a group to be the right decision.
As for the best of show, when the time came I did step down and shut my mouth. The 2 individuals from modified mag had the final word - and they looked at multiple cars.
A big thank you to Phil and everyone who help make this event possible and I am looking forward to next years!
Ryan
Brother or no brother Rich's car is more than deserving to win best of show and get featured in modified - and so were so many other cars - that's what people are missing here. I didn't have time to eat all day b/c the judging was so intense and competitive - there were so many nice cars it made judging very difficult.
I personally didn't agree with some of the winning FDs and I had my own opinion and choices written down of who I believed deserved to win, but at the end of the day so did every other judge. We came together to make what we all felt as a group to be the right decision.
As for the best of show, when the time came I did step down and shut my mouth. The 2 individuals from modified mag had the final word - and they looked at multiple cars.
A big thank you to Phil and everyone who help make this event possible and I am looking forward to next years!
Ryan
