DGRR Car Show Issues
05-07-11, 07:39 PM
#52
Hey Phil! This was my first DGRR and I can't wait to go back. I'm sorry you've had some negative feedback on the car show, something I could care less about, but no one is ever going to be 100% satisfied and you are handling it in the best way possible.
I didn't want to clutter up the DGRR page with a new thread and due to your illness didn't want to mention it at the event. However I'm hoping you will consider this as part of the general "etiquette introduction" for the future.
<Begin Rant>
1) This is a rotary event. I don't believe anyone REALLY cares if someone brings their buddy in another car. However when that buddy has no tail lights and has one of the slowest cars there and insists on jumping into the first couple of cars in the lead...yea that's bad. You may not have heard but the closest thing we had to a wreck to the best of my knowledge was the dipshit in the integra leading everyone over a hill and then hitting his brakes...with no brake lights...and almost called a massive pile up at a stop sign. All I saw was David Hayes braking to his left into the empty incoming traffic lane, Eddie braking to the right out of our lane and me locking them up as we came over a hill...all because of the cluster **** caused by the inconsiderate *** hat in the integra. Whomever brought this kid as your buddy, I'm sorry to be rude, but he needs to be bitch slapped.
2) Slow cars. With the possible exception of Barry(?) the guy with the immaculate white 1st gen that he was the original owner on and has more track experience than 99% of us with the car...if your car is slower or handles worse than the cars behind you...pull over. There was one car, that I will not identify, that people were doing everything they could to not get behind after stops...because it meant you were not going anywhere. There would be 10 or 12 cars backed up behind this guy and people passing him dangerously on double yellows because they were so frustrated. Everyone wants to have a good time...if your idea of a good time is a slower rate of speed and you see 10 or 15 cars behind you...PULL OVER. You are ruining the fun of others.
</End Rant>
Thanks! =)
I didn't want to clutter up the DGRR page with a new thread and due to your illness didn't want to mention it at the event. However I'm hoping you will consider this as part of the general "etiquette introduction" for the future.
<Begin Rant>
1) This is a rotary event. I don't believe anyone REALLY cares if someone brings their buddy in another car. However when that buddy has no tail lights and has one of the slowest cars there and insists on jumping into the first couple of cars in the lead...yea that's bad. You may not have heard but the closest thing we had to a wreck to the best of my knowledge was the dipshit in the integra leading everyone over a hill and then hitting his brakes...with no brake lights...and almost called a massive pile up at a stop sign. All I saw was David Hayes braking to his left into the empty incoming traffic lane, Eddie braking to the right out of our lane and me locking them up as we came over a hill...all because of the cluster **** caused by the inconsiderate *** hat in the integra. Whomever brought this kid as your buddy, I'm sorry to be rude, but he needs to be bitch slapped.
2) Slow cars. With the possible exception of Barry(?) the guy with the immaculate white 1st gen that he was the original owner on and has more track experience than 99% of us with the car...if your car is slower or handles worse than the cars behind you...pull over. There was one car, that I will not identify, that people were doing everything they could to not get behind after stops...because it meant you were not going anywhere. There would be 10 or 12 cars backed up behind this guy and people passing him dangerously on double yellows because they were so frustrated. Everyone wants to have a good time...if your idea of a good time is a slower rate of speed and you see 10 or 15 cars behind you...PULL OVER. You are ruining the fun of others.
</End Rant>
Thanks! =)
Awesome
05-08-11, 12:00 PM
#54
silver ghost
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Its really amazing that there is negative feedback about this. I believe the event is about driving the roads, hanging with fellow rotorheads and being around great people in general. The car show is an added bonus to share and reflect knowledge and info. that we all can learn from to better help our own builds, etc. If somebody(ies) really have their panties in a wad about not deseving a trophy or best of show thats pretty selfish in my opinion. In fact DGRR doent need people like that in attendance. Go to N.O.P.I. and enter if you really are seeking to be the center of attention. Phil, John and others put in tons of time to make this the best rotary event in the country. Its held in an area of the country that offers some of the best roads in the world. Come to the event with that in mind. These cars were built from the factory to do so. G
__________________
Its really amazing that there is negative feedback about this. I believe the event is about driving the roads, hanging with fellow rotorheads and being around great people in general. The car show is an added bonus to share and reflect knowledge and info. that we all can learn from to better help our own builds, etc. If somebody(ies) really have their panties in a wad about not deseving a trophy or best of show thats pretty selfish in my opinion. In fact DGRR doent need people like that in attendance. Go to N.O.P.I. and enter if you really are seeking to be the center of attention. Phil, John and others put in tons of time to make this the best rotary event in the country. Its held in an area of the country that offers some of the best roads in the world. Come to the event with that in mind. These cars were built from the factory to do so. G
__________________
05-08-11, 12:52 PM
#55
Rotary Freak
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Its really amazing that there is negative feedback about this. I believe the event is about driving the roads, hanging with fellow rotorheads and being around great people in general. The car show is an added bonus to share and reflect knowledge and info. that we all can learn from to better help our own builds, etc. If somebody(ies) really have their panties in a wad about not deseving a trophy or best of show thats pretty selfish in my opinion. In fact DGRR doent need people like that in attendance. Go to N.O.P.I. and enter if you really are seeking to be the center of attention. Phil, John and others put in tons of time to make this the best rotary event in the country. Its held in an area of the country that offers some of the best roads in the world. Come to the event with that in mind. These cars were built from the factory to do so. G
__________________
Its really amazing that there is negative feedback about this. I believe the event is about driving the roads, hanging with fellow rotorheads and being around great people in general. The car show is an added bonus to share and reflect knowledge and info. that we all can learn from to better help our own builds, etc. If somebody(ies) really have their panties in a wad about not deseving a trophy or best of show thats pretty selfish in my opinion. In fact DGRR doent need people like that in attendance. Go to N.O.P.I. and enter if you really are seeking to be the center of attention. Phil, John and others put in tons of time to make this the best rotary event in the country. Its held in an area of the country that offers some of the best roads in the world. Come to the event with that in mind. These cars were built from the factory to do so. G
__________________
05-08-11, 04:28 PM
#57
死*神*
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If I would have gone this year I am sure I would have gotten furthest distance at 6000 miles away, lol. Seriously I was sad to miss the event at all. I generally make it to some kind of rally there every year either for the Saturn nerds or the bike clubs.
I do like the direction you are headed and want you to keep it going so I can at lest come meet you guys next year. And since I will officially be out of the Army (finally) I can truthfully say that I will be there for once in my life. I for one will be attending the show as I plan on showing off my wonderful build. At the same time my crazy hot girlfriend (who I NO have pictures of since I am so far away from her) will be modeling along with all those hot girls you plan on hiring
It takes alot to pull something like this off and as I hear it you are doing an outstanding job. I agree with the fontana thing actually. Last year they threatened legal action against us for the traditional slow race (push off and coast down the hill on our bikes) when we never even made it to the speed limits.
anyway just saying I am looking forward to seeing you all there next year. If you see my car just say hi, I will be in the Series 1 with a LS1 and rocking the full respeed product line on rota grids (color undetermined as of yet)
I do like the direction you are headed and want you to keep it going so I can at lest come meet you guys next year. And since I will officially be out of the Army (finally) I can truthfully say that I will be there for once in my life. I for one will be attending the show as I plan on showing off my wonderful build. At the same time my crazy hot girlfriend (who I NO have pictures of since I am so far away from her) will be modeling along with all those hot girls you plan on hiring
It takes alot to pull something like this off and as I hear it you are doing an outstanding job. I agree with the fontana thing actually. Last year they threatened legal action against us for the traditional slow race (push off and coast down the hill on our bikes) when we never even made it to the speed limits.
anyway just saying I am looking forward to seeing you all there next year. If you see my car just say hi, I will be in the Series 1 with a LS1 and rocking the full respeed product line on rota grids (color undetermined as of yet)
05-08-11, 06:21 PM
#58
I enjoyed myself this year as well. Great event, but I did have my concerns about the car show and judging. Last year I registered for the car show and thought nothing of it. One comment from one of u guys posting in this thread opened my eyes a lot. He said "I'm not gonna put my car in the show because its not fair, I'm gonna win regardless". Wow. Stuck with me all year. This year I didn't bother to sign up for that part of the event.
There were some really bad *** rides at the event this year. I think the car show/judging should be tossed to the side. Last year I met and made friends, this year I played the ******* role and stayed with my friends. Shame on me. But again ban the judging and just enjoy each car for what it is. From Gordons 100k beast to my buddys fc I think we are all winners. Even tho I think we are participating in the special Olympics.
There were some really bad *** rides at the event this year. I think the car show/judging should be tossed to the side. Last year I met and made friends, this year I played the ******* role and stayed with my friends. Shame on me. But again ban the judging and just enjoy each car for what it is. From Gordons 100k beast to my buddys fc I think we are all winners. Even tho I think we are participating in the special Olympics.
05-08-11, 10:36 PM
#60
Some people just feel that they deserved to win the no-entry fee car show that sounds like was not a normal car show. I saw it mentioned in here that "Modified Mag" did the primary judging? To me that says one thing: They are looking for what they would want in their magazine. That means whomever they chose would be a vehicle that fits in with what is selling magazines today. That also means that some cars are going to be excluded from the running if the car just doesn't fit in with what sells their magazine in their eyes. If my car were finished and in the show today.... I honestly wouldn't expect to win based on those criteria alone... let alone against so many nice vehicles that it seems were there.
The thing to remember about building a car is to build it for you. If it wins a show in the eyes of others, great, if not, oh well. The whole point of being car enthusiasts as a whole is to build our vehicles to the point they make us happy for ourselves. And then to support each other as enthusiasts when someone builds a great car to their goals.
I for one never even thought of dgrr as a car show haven. i thought it was a group of rotary enthusiasts getting together to meet up, talk shop, drive the tail, and help each other forward their vehicular goals. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think dgrr should focus on a car show like a rotary specific version of sema.
I just hope all this car show stuff doesn't get in the way of enjoying dgrr once I get my fd finished. I would hate to drive across the country to find that the whole point of "Driving" has been lost to the vanity of "Showing Off."
Just my .02
The thing to remember about building a car is to build it for you. If it wins a show in the eyes of others, great, if not, oh well. The whole point of being car enthusiasts as a whole is to build our vehicles to the point they make us happy for ourselves. And then to support each other as enthusiasts when someone builds a great car to their goals.
I for one never even thought of dgrr as a car show haven. i thought it was a group of rotary enthusiasts getting together to meet up, talk shop, drive the tail, and help each other forward their vehicular goals. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think dgrr should focus on a car show like a rotary specific version of sema.
I just hope all this car show stuff doesn't get in the way of enjoying dgrr once I get my fd finished. I would hate to drive across the country to find that the whole point of "Driving" has been lost to the vanity of "Showing Off."
Just my .02
05-09-11, 05:40 AM
#61
The thing to remember about building a car is to build it for you. If it wins a show in the eyes of others, great, if not, oh well. The whole point of being car enthusiasts as a whole is to build our vehicles to the point they make us happy for ourselves. And then to support each other as enthusiasts when someone builds a great car to their goals.
Well said! I think you will find that most of us are in it for the driving.
05-09-11, 06:26 AM
#62
So Phil is doing the right thing here by reviewing the process and making it as fair as possible.
It's interesting because I don't care if I win anything and like Monkman33 posted, I have built my car to please me. It better after all the crap I've taken and money I have spent
But there are others that do wish to win and there is nothing wrong with that either. So, having a car show that is transparent is the way to go and will lead to everyone being pleased.Finally, DGRR is about getting together with the rotary community and it is most certainly about the driving. Phil's idea of a Friday morning drive was a great one, even though he couldn't do it. It's become a permanent part of my itineray.
05-09-11, 08:17 AM
#63
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
David, just want to clarify a few of your points:
I wasn't comfortable with Ryan being a judge, but it wasn't my decision. Also, there were at least 5 other judges, and towards the end of the process more people were brought in to share their opinions, so you're talking about approximately a dozen people involved in the decision-making process.
It was to everyone's benefit with him being involved, because he was familiar with all the cars and what exactly went on with each build and the 'story' behind each car..... ie, all the adversity you overcame with your car for example. I'm also told that Ryan being a judge hurt my chances because the Modified guys viewed him as biased, so they were pretty cool towards my car in the beginning.
Lastly, I've never auto-crossed my car in all the years I've owned it. They were looking for a car that was raced, I believe that to mean drag or road race.
I wasn't comfortable with Ryan being a judge, but it wasn't my decision. Also, there were at least 5 other judges, and towards the end of the process more people were brought in to share their opinions, so you're talking about approximately a dozen people involved in the decision-making process.
It was to everyone's benefit with him being involved, because he was familiar with all the cars and what exactly went on with each build and the 'story' behind each car..... ie, all the adversity you overcame with your car for example
. I'm also told that Ryan being a judge hurt my chances because the Modified guys viewed him as biased, so they were pretty cool towards my car in the beginning.Lastly, I've never auto-crossed my car in all the years I've owned it
. They were looking for a car that was raced, I believe that to mean drag or road race.
Last edited by GoodfellaFD3S; 05-09-11 at 08:26 AM.
05-09-11, 08:50 AM
#64
Rich I think the point that most of us still don't know what went down and who/how things were judged is exactly why Phil has taken the steps to ensure that future shows will be transparant and fair. Kudos to him for listening and fixing the issues.
Not everyone will win when they expect to but at least the criteria are now known and there will be no perception of bias.
Not everyone will win when they expect to but at least the criteria are now known and there will be no perception of bias.
05-09-11, 01:33 PM
#67
I sent a picture of Andrew modeling with your car in his matching Osaka shirt. Ask him for it. Make him post it up hahaha. Your GF is in the pic to.
05-10-11, 06:21 AM
#68
Rotor or no motor
iTrader: (24)
So, while it is clear that we all really think the event is largely about the driving and camaraderie among rotorheads, there was a car show and people complained about it. One of the reasons for the complaints was that Ryan was a judge and his brother's car won. We are told that Ryan being a judge really hurt Rich, rather than helped him? The only thing clear to me regarding Ryan being a judge is that everyone, including Rich and Ryan, should have had the good judgement to have realized that having Ryan as a judge in a car show where his brother's car was being judged would create the appearance of impropriety. If nothing else, realizing that people would think that should have been an issue at least after the selections were made...
We are also told that Modified Magazine wanted the best of show to be a car that the owner had built and that the car was tracked. That would seem to go a long way in explaining why Rich's car was chosen over cars that might have been chosen as best of show, but were not owner built and tracked. But, the criteria being disclosed raises the question of when they decided that they wanted an owner-built car that was tracked: before or after the judging?
If Modified wanted a car that was owner built and tracked and this was known going into the show, you would have thought someone would have said so before the judging, rather than afterwards. After all, those criteria eliminated most of the cars and owners from consideration. More importantly, if the criteria were known before the judging, how would the judges have known that a car they were looking at was built by the owner and tracked or not? They would have to ask the owners and they didn't.
Since the criteria was obviously not used while the judges were looking at the cars, we are left to conclude that this rationale of owner built and tracked was established at the last minute as a way of justifying the selection they had already made based on some other criteria.
The simple answer here is that the judges wanted Rich's car to win and there's no need to justify it. Those of us who like the idea of a car show talked to Phil about running it in an objective and professional way going forward and that seems to be what he plans to do.
When I shave in the morning, I only use Occam's Brand Razors...
Gordon
We are also told that Modified Magazine wanted the best of show to be a car that the owner had built and that the car was tracked. That would seem to go a long way in explaining why Rich's car was chosen over cars that might have been chosen as best of show, but were not owner built and tracked. But, the criteria being disclosed raises the question of when they decided that they wanted an owner-built car that was tracked: before or after the judging?
If Modified wanted a car that was owner built and tracked and this was known going into the show, you would have thought someone would have said so before the judging, rather than afterwards. After all, those criteria eliminated most of the cars and owners from consideration. More importantly, if the criteria were known before the judging, how would the judges have known that a car they were looking at was built by the owner and tracked or not? They would have to ask the owners and they didn't.
Since the criteria was obviously not used while the judges were looking at the cars, we are left to conclude that this rationale of owner built and tracked was established at the last minute as a way of justifying the selection they had already made based on some other criteria.
The simple answer here is that the judges wanted Rich's car to win and there's no need to justify it. Those of us who like the idea of a car show talked to Phil about running it in an objective and professional way going forward and that seems to be what he plans to do.
When I shave in the morning, I only use Occam's Brand Razors...
Gordon
or are you referring about other cars other than yours??
05-10-11, 06:46 AM
#69
^^Honestly, this is flat out embarrassing. I wasnt even at the show, so maybe i should keep my 2 cents to myself, but to sit here a squable over the criteria like a 5 year old is rediculous. I think some of you guys need to take a good look at what your complaining about and realize its really not that important. Rich's car is more than deserving and some of you are just coming off as sore losers.
-Austin
-Austin
05-10-11, 07:10 AM
#70
Car show at DGRR has been some what informal in the past.. Mainly we had some vendors and enthusiasts judge and look at some cars during traditional Saturday morning gathering... which was just people parking and hanging out (and some people just wanted to do that vs. going on the dragon).
I understand more now than before that when some of you show up Saturday morning gathering, you might be coming to win the car show. I know couple of people in the past 7 years were upset over the car show (because they didn't win) and they stop coming to DGRR... which I kind of brushed it off as being petty and continued not caring much about the show.
This year however we had much bigger stake at hand and I do see that there was some issues. I also realized more people were upset and better guideline should be in place. Hence starting of this thread.
I know a lot of things were said on this thread and some of you are disappointed how all have unfolded. Ultimately, its my event and I will take blame for it and will correct this issue in the future.
I understand more now than before that when some of you show up Saturday morning gathering, you might be coming to win the car show. I know couple of people in the past 7 years were upset over the car show (because they didn't win) and they stop coming to DGRR... which I kind of brushed it off as being petty and continued not caring much about the show.
This year however we had much bigger stake at hand and I do see that there was some issues. I also realized more people were upset and better guideline should be in place. Hence starting of this thread.
I know a lot of things were said on this thread and some of you are disappointed how all have unfolded. Ultimately, its my event and I will take blame for it and will correct this issue in the future.
05-10-11, 08:19 AM
#71
^^Honestly, this is flat out embarrassing. I wasnt even at the show, so maybe i should keep my 2 cents to myself, but to sit here a squable over the criteria like a 5 year old is rediculous. I think some of you guys need to take a good look at what your complaining about and realize its really not that important. Rich's car is more than deserving and some of you are just coming off as sore losers.
-Austin
-Austin
Phil has already taken steps to make that happen for next year taking feedback from everyone's point of view into account.
I don't see anywhere that people said Rich's car wasn't deserving and I think Rich has been more than humble about winning and had even said that his own car wasn't deserving of such an honor.
Again, open and honest adult conversation and feedback will only serve to make next years show better all around. No one is pointing fingers and no one should be taking blame. We discuss and make it better. simple...right? lol
05-10-11, 08:47 AM
#72
^^Honestly, this is flat out embarrassing. I wasnt even at the show, so maybe i should keep my 2 cents to myself, but to sit here a squable over the criteria like a 5 year old is rediculous. I think some of you guys need to take a good look at what your complaining about and realize its really not that important. Rich's car is more than deserving and some of you are just coming off as sore losers.
-Austin
-Austin
To be honest, from what I've seen it's been more of a headache then an honor. Build your car for yourself, enjoy it, track it. Screw the car show, just have a Saturday meet and greet, showoff and shine. Last year there were hurt feelings over the car show too, it's going to happen no matter what...unless you give trophies to everyone upset they didn't win anything.
But even then they'd find something to complain about "My trophy isn't big enough"
Phil, keep up the good work buddy. This years event was a blast! The focus of DGRR is hanging with fellow rotorheads and enjoying your car on the fantastic NC roads, people seem to lose sight of that when trophies are involved.
05-10-11, 09:41 AM
#73
Dan,
I am considering NO DGRR Car show from now on also... I think at the end, the spirit of us all just hanging out and chilling goes out the door when $50 trophy is at hand.. Also, if Modified Mag comes out again, I'll just let them pick vs. ME or 'car show' getting involved.
What do you guys think?? Car show (w/ new rules) or No Car Show??
I am considering NO DGRR Car show from now on also... I think at the end, the spirit of us all just hanging out and chilling goes out the door when $50 trophy is at hand.. Also, if Modified Mag comes out again, I'll just let them pick vs. ME or 'car show' getting involved.
What do you guys think?? Car show (w/ new rules) or No Car Show??
05-10-11, 10:06 AM
#75
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Less car show, more driving
Phil, a bunch of us longtime DGRR people should brainstorm about what the 'spirit' of the event is and what activities we can do that keeps with that theme.
These recent developments have really been a bummer and for the first time in my five years of attending the event there has been a negative blanket cast over it for me. This morning a buddy sent me a link to a folder of DGRR 2011 pictures of people having a blast---- beautiful weather, awesome cars in action, friends laughing. That definitely picked me up a lot, and I really needed it.
Btw, if anyone strongly believes that they deserved Best in Show and essentially got robbed of their glory, I'll personally forward their car to modified as a submission to be featured in the mag
Phil, a bunch of us longtime DGRR people should brainstorm about what the 'spirit' of the event is and what activities we can do that keeps with that theme.
These recent developments have really been a bummer and for the first time in my five years of attending the event there has been a negative blanket cast over it for me. This morning a buddy sent me a link to a folder of DGRR 2011 pictures of people having a blast---- beautiful weather, awesome cars in action, friends laughing. That definitely picked me up a lot, and I really needed it.
Btw, if anyone strongly believes that they deserved Best in Show and essentially got robbed of their glory, I'll personally forward their car to modified as a submission to be featured in the mag