I have seen links and/or references to Arizona Rotary Rockets, Gotham Racing, and Pettit in signatures. I'm sure that it could be argued that ACT, FEED, and Tial have also been referenced in signatures. I've seen threads dedicated to Steve Kan tuning. Some have been posted with in the past few days. Some are in threads that have been brought back to the top in the past few days. Based on RX7club's FAQ, no vendors are allowed unless they are

Also, based on the definition given in the FAQ, youtube is also a vendor because it provides a service, since "vendors" are not limited to a specific type of service.

If you are going to remove references to the "other" forum without warning (and without it showing which admin/mod edited the post) then I think that all these other references need to be removed as well.

If going through all posts/signatures looking for these references that are in violation of the regulations is too much work for the current staff, then I would like to volunteer to do it myself. I have plenty of time in which I could performed this cleaning up of the violations.

Why am i making a thread about this? I was answering someone's question and it did include a reference to the "other" forum BECAUSE that is where the information the person asked for can be found. I was not spamming, simply directing the other member where to find the information their self. My post was edited and it doesn't even have it listed who edited it.

I have asked Icemark what it will take to end the censorship of the "other" forum, now I'm going to ask here for all who see this what it will take to end this childish feud? If you are going to selectively enforce the rules, then can we please get better admin/mods? A group that will not let their personal feelings effect their ability to carry out their roles and enforce the regulations they have set forth.

If you are truly here to help the rotary community, then you know the "other" forum is just another resource for the community. You have also said (and I have seen) how little IB is involved in the daily running of this forum. I have yet to figure out how you are helping by limiting the information available to everyone. As you all have said already, you do not get paid for the time you put into your duties.

Let me work through some of my logic here. People come to this forum, you don't get paid anything. People go to theforumlounge, you don't get paid anything. People go to mr2oc, you don't get paid anything. People go to rx8club, you don't get paid. So, since it is not monetary compensation you get from this forum, how do you personally benefit from trying to prevent links/references to other forums? Again, please tell me how the selective removal of references help the community?

 

I try to just go with the flow. I try not to cause problems or bring up this issue. But when I'm trying to provide the best information I can to someone and someone else decides that the information I'm providing isn't allowed, then I have a problem. I do not blatantly look for openings to mention other forums, but when I know that they contain the information someone is looking for, I will reference it.

And who ever it is that edited my post didn't even say it was edited (like in my thread about the event I hosted - look in SE section, B3R) nor does it say it was edited at all at the bottom. If you are going to filter the information here, at least own up to it.

 

the mods must be getting paid by IB, because it is just stupid to censor other forums. why would they care so much about IB making money over helping the rotary community? there is another word for that.. being a sellout

 

I'm sorry, I should have linked this in my original post. Here is the thread with my reply that was edited without any indication it was edited:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=8689847

 

The other forum's members spammed this forum repeatedly. Censoring that boards name was the only solution when they refused to stop. Many members were warned multiple times and yet they still posted in a blatant attempt to overwhelm the staff here with spam. Blocking the text referring to their site was the only option left when they refused to stop.

Spam is not tolerated at all here, and there have been some substantial efforts made by the moderators and admins here to remove all spam; all together. This is not selective. This is standard policy enforced by all moderators. The new member sections and requirements to post 5 times there before posting in other sections is also mainly to reduce or eliminate spam. Will some other board member be calling foul on that as well?

Let me give you an example of another case... the R C C digizine had multiple threads started on it by a single member from there (and even after being warned not to do multiple threads on it) and no less than 12 posts advertising it in the middle of technical threads. Unrelated at all to what was being discussed in that thread.

Sure smells like spam to me. But to help the community I did offer (and still do) to post any articles that did not have advertising in them here so the rotary world can benefit without being forced to read advertisings. Any Rotary magazine or Digizine writers are welcome to post their full articles here as long as they do not contain formal advertising or I will be happy to even host full pages without advertising on my personal website... free of charge.. simply to help the community...not to make a profit on it. Heck, we can even create a magazine section here for such articles.

And just so it is clear: No moderator or admin is paid here. In fact even a former perk of allowing admins or moderators even post advertising for their own businesses has been dropped due to the issues brought up by R C C members calling foul. So again, not even that perk is allowed any longer to staff here, all due to R C C and people like Phil/Herb.

You of course can see how that would rub moderators and admin the wrong way if the only monetary perk they had was lost because of R C C owners/members. I think it is great that most have not attempted to attack back (in the same way members and admins of that board did) in some sort of retaliation. In fact you don't see calls to spam that board here, like there have been there. I guess the staff and members here are bigger than that.

Now lt1_rx7 seems to want to remove that members can post about their regional clubs or about a company that a member is unrelated too mentioning that they got a good deal from.

Does this seem smart? But that is what he is asking??? Why???

Does he want the moderators to come down on members here in a hope to drive others to another website?

Does he want to send people to a site that continues to post on how evil I am (even though I am only one of the 5+ admins here) or how evil this forum is???

Maybe he wants to drive away vendors here??? Some pay for just a signature and he wants to take that away??? What would be the point in that?

So what he is calling a selective enforcement of the rules is far from the truth. The rules are being followed.. the rules created by the previous owner of this board.

This is not an IB issue. This is not a us vs them. This is an issue of stopping Spammers. AS I told lt1_rx7 in PM, lets see members there not spam here and I am sure the restrictions will disappear. I personally would also like to see them not attack moderators or admins here, and not push some agenda to drive away members here, but that may be asking for more than they have the ability to do.

This board has a open relationship with many other boards, such as nopistons and teamfc3s as well as many others. These boards are not blocked or even thought of in a bad way. It is a live and let live relationship as we would like with all boards.

It is strictly the behavior of several of the R C C admins, moderators, and a few of its members that have ruined their name here. Lets hope with them behaving as adults (as it appears they have been for the last month); that it is a start towards an open relationship with that forum as well.

lt1_rx7 suggests there is a feud between the two boards. Any feud that may still exist was started by the other board (and if so, continues to be maintained by the admins there with threads attacking staff here, and even calls for further spamming). As long as there are such Spam attacks, that board will be considered no different than the people from russia and china spamming **** links into the 3nd gen technical section here.

To put in another way, I think many people here think of that board as Iran, and this board as the USA. Can there ever be peace if Iran wants to bring down this country. We all hope here, that there can be peace, and they will behave, and become a productive member of the world. But until then... well... we are checking and blocking Iranian passports.

 

Icemark, I do believe his complaint is that the R C C link was removed from his thread, even though he was not spamming, or doing anything wrong. Just providing a link to information.

I don't know the whole story, but if that is what happened, then that would seem as though a mod here is trying to prevent anyone from even seeing a link to R C C.

But also to point out, I've seen many members from teamfc3s and nopistons call this forum evil. It's not just a R C C thing

 

Links to R C C are not permitted at this time due to their hostile actions towards this forum. That was previously discussed in the post above.

If they want to populate the DGRR forum with proper information that is fine, we aren't going to operate the DGRR section as a linkback section to the R C C forum.

I think we are being fairly lenient in allowing the links to the DGRR website which in itself is blatantly anti-rx7club as it is.

 

I guess I dont see the whole problem with the R C C D, I mean seriously is this going to be that damn CHILDISH here..

that magazine is COMPLETELY FREE, no marketing, no money, no nothing.. it is a ROTARY magazine, BUILT by enthusiasts with one thing in mind... to SHARE it with the rotary community..
The fact that this forum wants to ban/censor that magazine shows the DIRECT disregad for other members getting the joy in viewing such a great magazine with LOTS of info and lots of very nice reads.

Why should that mag be broken down in order to post articles here? that makes no since. SOMEBODY took alot of time to put that together and well it should be seen in a whole... I think it is time that all this bullshit gets dropped..
If this is NOT about IB then GROW UP EVERYONE...

All this is doing is taring apart a community of ENTHUSIASTS...

Admins you need to put yourself aside and quit thinking about your poor egos or how someone may have said something about you etc... THINK ABOUT THE COMMUNITY.. because remember that is why u are here.. without the members there would be no forum..

R C C is not trying to convert all the members to be ONLY R C C members..

Sure it would be nice for everyone to go to R C C and join and share the knowledge. It would be nice for them to go to others as well..

www.rx7city.com
www.nopistons.com
www.mirotaryclub.net
etc

I mean seriously this is a JOKE... this has gone on for to long and over to much little pittly *** ****.

Why cant everyone just GROW UP, put your ego aside and do whats best for the community..


this has gone TOO damn far for to damn long..

 

Icemark, that is a weak excuse for censoring a whole forum. there are thousands of members there, and hundreds of thousands of people that can benefit from both these forums. censoring a whole forum because of the actions of a few rogue spammers that claim to be a member there? how does that make sense? why not simply ban the individual offenders?

 

Yes, it can be taken that I am saying that. Do the "regional" forums have any method of preventing people from outside of their region from joining? Can I join a North Cali rx forum? Can I join HoustonRx7Club? If I am able to, then what defines these forums as "regional" forums?

Are regional forums based on content or location of members? If I have a handful of NC and SC people join either of the previously mentioned "regional" forums, and we are well received, then I'm sure we would get our own subsection on that forum for NC and SC, and moving it towards a multi-regional forum.

As for vendors in signatures, by listing them in my signature, isn't that a form of free advertisement for them? If I list that I have a particular manufacturers part,
then I am referencing that company. I am simply saying, based on the definition given in the FAQ, that these references need to be removed as well. These vendors (Tial, Gotham Racing, Veilside, ACT, etc) do not pay for advertisement on this forum, but they get it in peoples signatures. When, at the same time, I am sure that if I list that Kevin Landers at RotaryResurrection did my rebuild, it would be removed because "he is not a paying vendor". That to me is "selective" editing.

Please define "smart". Removing all of these "violations" is fair. It doesn't show any bias. It strictly adheres to the regulations set forth by the admins/mods. As with the title of this forum, if you remove one, you need to remove all. You can't be selective in your enforcing of the rules and regulations.

Do I think that removing these things is "smart" in the sense of helping the rotary community? No I do not think that is "smart", but I see it as fair.

Do I think that removing these things is "smart" in the sense that it shows that admins/mods enforce the rules and regulations of this forum? Yes, I do see it as "smart", but it does not help things grow.

My goal is to allow fairness to everyone here. For rx7club to stick to the rules and regulations it has set forth. I am not trying to drive members to other forums. If they make their way there, then that is what happens because they made the choice to find other forums.

I know in the "Private Forum", there is a list of paying vendors. Can this list please be made public so people know what vendors they can reference in their signatures? If any vendor, by definition in the FAQ, is in a signature and is not on the list of paying vendors, then they need to be removed. As I have offered, I will take it upon myself to remove these.

I would like to see the admins/mods of RX7Club have a "show of faith" and end the censorship of R C C, but that may be asking more than they have the ability to do. My goal here is to help the relations between R C C and RX7Club, I am asking the admins/mods here to do the same, instead of "just give it time".


If this is truly your feelings, then please start that policy now with R C C. Do not remove informational links to them.

gxl90rx7 has already commented on this matter and I agree with him.

If a feud does not still exist, then why was my informational reference to R C C removed from my post? I was not spamming.

DKJ, you have said to me yourself you want to see R C C D and R C C to grow. You wish R C C to do well. And we all know that Phil, the organizer of DGRR is also the co-founder of R C C. Yes, we all know that they are anti-rx7club at this time.

SpooledupRacing, Icemark has already said that the problem with R C C D is that it contains ads for "non-paying vendors". He has also said this in another thread with regards to a link to the R C C D at the top of the forum in the ads:
That was posted 10-31-08, 04:10 PM. Now I ask, if this forum has no problem with R C C D and the forum that make the digizine, why are they still censored?

 

on R C C we even have a referance link to rx7club....wait if you scroll down to the bottom of the home page there is a link.... WE DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM with yall at all or those links would not exist.

 

Yeah we are just trying to find a medium. someway to keep the community together.

 

The link at the bottom of the R C C pages that says "RX7 Club" is just a link back to R C C.

 

Actually when you register for the houstonrx7club forums you are required to enter your zip code as part of registration. Any user who registers outside of our zip code is reviewed and in some cases referred to contact their local forums if one is known of or in some cases directed to a national club forum. Some users are allowed to stay, especially if they are considering moving to the region or are regular visitors to the area. Some users have been allowed access including our freindly DGRR promoter.

I would never open up sections of the forum for users of other regions, not even other state regions. There are other clubs for that and we aren't focused on taking in their users.

 

Sounds like even the old turbo_turtle was fooled by the old "bait and switch"

 

Regardless of my good wishes towards them, I won't allow them to ride our backs to success they can get out there and earn it one user at a time.

 

(This is in referece to the R C C D ad that appeared on the rx7club forums.)

It was observed that R C C D purchased a Google Adwords ad that appeared on our website. The Google Adwords are an automated process and are not specifcally rx7club approved vendors. They are just random ads targed by keywords that appear on the participating website. The appearance of that ad on our website at that time in no way indicated they had actually paid for advertising with IB.

 

For the last time, we don't get paid. Problems occur when people start spreading lies.




I saw Steve Kan mentioned. He is a registered vendor on this forum. I don't see the problem when people post about tuning session interest.

 

I really wish that the two of these forums could just work out their differences. I can understand the vendors complaining about pricing over here. I can understand the complaints on both sides of this spectrum. I've been there, and I've been here. I'm still in both places. It just sucks to see the community split.

I completely understand the ban on R C C and the use of the forums name. When they first started in on that forum they were attacking this one from every source. I had some problems with the workings of this forum as well. I think most of my problems with this forum were more misunderstanding than anything else though.

Regardless, had the other forum not attacked this one so heavily I don't think the ban on that forum would have ever taken place. There were a lot of irrational moves made. Honestly, I would say that had the crew over at R C C not done the initial damage I highly doubt the ban on that forum would have never been issued.

This is childish though. One, if not both, of these forums need to step up and make peace with one another. I don't see nopistons being banned, but again, that forum never made any attacks towards this one that I've ever witnessed.

 

Please clarify for me then: Regional forums are allowed to ride rx7club back to success and earn its members?

I can understand and have no issue with R C C and other national forums not being allowed in signatures. I wish I could put links to them in my signature, but oh well, I've made peace with not being allowed.

The action that sparked this thread is that I had an informational link removed. Because of that action, I have asked for "equal" treatment under the rules and regulations.

Please see my next post with a suggestion.

Please forgive me, I did not realize he is a registered vendor. Can a maintained list of registered vendors please be posted publicly? That way people can know which vendors they can list in their signatures?

 

Ok, my goal at this time is to get the censorship of R C C removed from rx7club. I have been told that the censorship is there because of the "attacks" made by a handful of R C C's members. And from what I've seen on R C C, the members who I've been told were doing the attacks have said they are done with 7club and will not venture here.

My suggest is that the censorship be lifted and informational links be permitted to remain. If someone answers a post with a link to nopistons, it is allowed to stay. I'm asking for the same of R C C links. To help determine if a link is informational or if it is a irrelevant reply, I volunteer to moderate that.

One way of putting it is that I wish to become the "ambassador for R C C". Let me decide if any links and/or references to R C C and the R C C D are helpful when they are posted or if they are just "spamming". I want to help resolve this conflict once and for all. If I fail in this position, then I strip me of the power and ban me from here.

My intention is not so I can simply drive people to the other forum. My intention is to get R C C to the "live and let live" status here on rx7club. Could we try this for a week or two? Remove the censorship of all the R C C stuff and let me be the moderator to handle any R C C issues. Let's see how it goes now.

cliff notes:
- remove R C C censorship
- make an R C C supporter (me) a mod here to handle R C C related issues.

 

By "regional clubs" you are referring to "local" clubs such as a specific city or state regional RX-clubs?

Yes, those are permitted to use the regional sections within reason to post their events. By no means would any specific club be granted license to overwhelm an section of the forum regional or otherwise.

Additionally, if a said club started to plaster themselves all across the forums in a hostile attempt to gain attention to themselves they may also be subject to removal or other actions.

By example, I typically only post 1 or 2 of my club events here per month. In general, I also post nearly the same information on my threads on my home forum as I do here as well. I don't post threads that read "goto www.houston.... for more information". I post the information here and let the thread run it's course.

Hypothetical situation: If there was a regional club created that held a specific demographic such as the entire West Region (let's call them the "West Coast Rotary Car Club") and they began posting in the West section urging our users to use their forum instead of ours they would also be subject to removal as well.

Do keep in mind every situation is judged on it's own merit, I'm not going to argue this into a set of specific set of rules as to pigeonhole ourselves into a corner. We reserve the right to judge these situations as they arise.

 

I can appreciate the lengths that you are going to in order to bring about some resolution to these matter, it is a noble thing to try and accomplish. However the simple fact is we don't need a go-between or mediator to resolve these issues.

There are no deals to be brokered here. We were not the aggressors in this situation, we didn't break away from the establishment to venture out on our own. We didn't drive anyone away, those users voluntarily walked away. We don't troll over there for users, we don't copy pages of data and recreate it here. We only responded with such censorship at a time when other resources were exhausted.

The members and staff of R C C violated our trust with extreme prejudice, it wasn't a passing thought, it was an organized attempt to harvest users and information in order to develop their own forum. There are still R C C proponents who stir up issues and work to subvert our measures even today, so I can't see how anyone can consider that "being done".

The staff and owners of R C C know where to reach us. When or if they have the inclination to work with us to resolve any issues we will be here. We aren't going anywhere.

 

With regards to regional forums, I agree with you on the points you made. You do not draw too much attention to your Houston forum in posts, but it is in your signature. Every post you make shows the link. That allows people to see it, it is very much like product placement in movies. But, regional forums are permitted in signatures, so there is not a point to argue.

I do understand the case-by-case basis.

In the eyes of R C C, the actions of IB (initially) and then the follow on actions of the staff here drove people away. I have read stories of the exchanges between the staff here and R C C members and do not see a need to bring up each situation. I have sat in the middle and see both sides placing the blame on the other.

I am a mod at R C C so I feel justified in saying I am staff. I have come here to work with you to resolve these issues. So let's resolve it in a manner other than "give it time" One of the owners can't come here because he is still banned.

Will some other Admin/Mod please chime in here?

Phil has been PMing with RX-7Doctor to share information about scammers. Phil has told RX-7Doctor he is willing to help end this feud, but he asks that the censorship be removed first.

 

I offer another course of action:

I came here and have shown that I am willing to discuss this matter and resolve it. Because of that, I have been a go-between for the two forums. Several of my R C C brethren would also like to speak with you to resolve this issue as well. But they cannot because they are banned from coming here. It has been asked that I request that I ask the admin and staff here to please to come to R C C to discuss the issues with certain R C C members. If you truly wish to resolve this, please come to R C C so they may become directly involved in this as well.