thewird's 20B Track Beast Project Finally Started :D
lol
If you look at how time attack cars have evolved over the past 5 years, you will notice that aerodynamics has received the most attention. Look at the panspeed and re amemiya world time attack cars from 2010 to 2014 and youll see what I mean. Cyber EVO has really gotten the aero game down and they win almost every year at WTA. Some other cars look borderline ridiculous.
With your goal of 800+whp you will def need to take a serious look at aero work beyond just an autoexe lip and a rear wing. At minimum a serious front splitter attached to the frame, the same ARP rear wing youve been using along with a function rear diffuser. I bet itll make a world of difference with straight line taction also once at speed.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with the build and of course, looking forward to more track vids.
With your goal of 800+whp you will def need to take a serious look at aero work beyond just an autoexe lip and a rear wing. At minimum a serious front splitter attached to the frame, the same ARP rear wing youve been using along with a function rear diffuser. I bet itll make a world of difference with straight line taction also once at speed.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with the build and of course, looking forward to more track vids.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,603
Likes: 15
From: Toronto, Canada
If you look at how time attack cars have evolved over the past 5 years, you will notice that aerodynamics has received the most attention. Look at the panspeed and re amemiya world time attack cars from 2010 to 2014 and youll see what I mean. Cyber EVO has really gotten the aero game down and they win almost every year at WTA. Some other cars look borderline ridiculous.
With your goal of 800+whp you will def need to take a serious look at aero work beyond just an autoexe lip and a rear wing. At minimum a serious front splitter attached to the frame, the same ARP rear wing youve been using along with a function rear diffuser. I bet itll make a world of difference with straight line taction also once at speed.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with the build and of course, looking forward to more track vids.
With your goal of 800+whp you will def need to take a serious look at aero work beyond just an autoexe lip and a rear wing. At minimum a serious front splitter attached to the frame, the same ARP rear wing youve been using along with a function rear diffuser. I bet itll make a world of difference with straight line taction also once at speed.
Looking forward to seeing you progress with the build and of course, looking forward to more track vids.
Also, I hit a point of where budget and time is slowing me down in what I want to do with the car. The thing I wanted to do most to the car had to be put on hold. That was dry sumping the engine and moving it back 6-7 inches while dropping it 3-4 inches. I think that is very important to making the car quicker without turning it into a race car. It's probably for the best anyway so I can see how much more this built stock gearbox can take. I might end up having to finally put a proper transmission in there but that's a whole bunch of money again so we'll see how this year plays out.
I can't wait to get my car back so I can see what kind of powerband my changes have made. I had 4-8k last year, I'm hoping to get something like 5-9.5k but it'll probably me more like 6.5-9k lol. This is assuming the the stock UIM isn't a restriction (which to be frank, I'm pretty sure it is) which would make me have to fab my own or buy that pricy Pro-Jay intake setup.
thewird
I love what you're doing Marco, keeping the car stock looking, sticker and sponsor free and having it pull ridiculous times is fantastic.
One aero mod that I've always wanted to do is a smooth underbody, not only would it help with cooling the engine bay but it should give you some real world aero advantages as well, not to mention it aligning with your goal of keeping the car stock looking. The new Tesla model S has a pretty sick underbody
Have you considered making a new firewall to move the engine back? While some organizations have rules against modifications to the firewall, there's actually a lot of unused space back there. If you have to strip the car to install a full cage per CSCS's new rules, might not be a bad time to do a new firewall as well, just a thought.
One aero mod that I've always wanted to do is a smooth underbody, not only would it help with cooling the engine bay but it should give you some real world aero advantages as well, not to mention it aligning with your goal of keeping the car stock looking. The new Tesla model S has a pretty sick underbody
Have you considered making a new firewall to move the engine back? While some organizations have rules against modifications to the firewall, there's actually a lot of unused space back there. If you have to strip the car to install a full cage per CSCS's new rules, might not be a bad time to do a new firewall as well, just a thought.
I know very well how critical aero is. Andrew's FC is basically a show piece of what can be done with power on the lower side. My limitation with my car is that I'm desperately trying to keep it a true street car. A good portion of my decisions are based on that fact and is why my car isn't a full race car done to the teeth. The ARP wing wasn't even mine, I borrowed it off an actual race car (Mazdee's 20b Rambo). So to me I'm always trying to make it faster with things you can't see, won't affect comfort, and won't make me get pulled over after every block.
Also, I hit a point of where budget and time is slowing me down in what I want to do with the car. The thing I wanted to do most to the car had to be put on hold. That was dry sumping the engine and moving it back 6-7 inches while dropping it 3-4 inches. I think that is very important to making the car quicker without turning it into a race car. It's probably for the best anyway so I can see how much more this built stock gearbox can take. I might end up having to finally put a proper transmission in there but that's a whole bunch of money again so we'll see how this year plays out.
I can't wait to get my car back so I can see what kind of powerband my changes have made. I had 4-8k last year, I'm hoping to get something like 5-9.5k but it'll probably me more like 6.5-9k lol. This is assuming the the stock UIM isn't a restriction (which to be frank, I'm pretty sure it is) which would make me have to fab my own or buy that pricy Pro-Jay intake setup.
thewird
Also, I hit a point of where budget and time is slowing me down in what I want to do with the car. The thing I wanted to do most to the car had to be put on hold. That was dry sumping the engine and moving it back 6-7 inches while dropping it 3-4 inches. I think that is very important to making the car quicker without turning it into a race car. It's probably for the best anyway so I can see how much more this built stock gearbox can take. I might end up having to finally put a proper transmission in there but that's a whole bunch of money again so we'll see how this year plays out.
I can't wait to get my car back so I can see what kind of powerband my changes have made. I had 4-8k last year, I'm hoping to get something like 5-9.5k but it'll probably me more like 6.5-9k lol. This is assuming the the stock UIM isn't a restriction (which to be frank, I'm pretty sure it is) which would make me have to fab my own or buy that pricy Pro-Jay intake setup.
thewird
I feel ya man, I am in the same boat. I believe a simple function front splitter wont really reduce the streetability off track. Especially if your ride height is somewhere around 25". The new RE amemiya splitter is the size of my kitchen table lol im not suggesting you go that route. At least the rear GT wing can come off easily after track days, assuming you too arnt the type to cruise around with it on the streets.
Thats my .02cents. Ive driven a few cars with basic aerowork and the difference is huge. Maybe the autoexe lip produces more downforce than I expect. If you end up using it, let us know how it works.
I know very well how critical aero is. Andrew's FC is basically a show piece of what can be done with power on the lower side. My limitation with my car is that I'm desperately trying to keep it a true street car. A good portion of my decisions are based on that fact and is why my car isn't a full race car done to the teeth. The ARP wing wasn't even mine, I borrowed it off an actual race car (Mazdee's 20b Rambo). So to me I'm always trying to make it faster with things you can't see, won't affect comfort, and won't make me get pulled over after every block.
Also, I hit a point of where budget and time is slowing me down in what I want to do with the car. The thing I wanted to do most to the car had to be put on hold. That was dry sumping the engine and moving it back 6-7 inches while dropping it 3-4 inches. I think that is very important to making the car quicker without turning it into a race car. It's probably for the best anyway so I can see how much more this built stock gearbox can take. I might end up having to finally put a proper transmission in there but that's a whole bunch of money again so we'll see how this year plays out.
I can't wait to get my car back so I can see what kind of powerband my changes have made. I had 4-8k last year, I'm hoping to get something like 5-9.5k but it'll probably me more like 6.5-9k lol. This is assuming the the stock UIM isn't a restriction (which to be frank, I'm pretty sure it is) which would make me have to fab my own or buy that pricy Pro-Jay intake setup.
thewird
Also, I hit a point of where budget and time is slowing me down in what I want to do with the car. The thing I wanted to do most to the car had to be put on hold. That was dry sumping the engine and moving it back 6-7 inches while dropping it 3-4 inches. I think that is very important to making the car quicker without turning it into a race car. It's probably for the best anyway so I can see how much more this built stock gearbox can take. I might end up having to finally put a proper transmission in there but that's a whole bunch of money again so we'll see how this year plays out.
I can't wait to get my car back so I can see what kind of powerband my changes have made. I had 4-8k last year, I'm hoping to get something like 5-9.5k but it'll probably me more like 6.5-9k lol. This is assuming the the stock UIM isn't a restriction (which to be frank, I'm pretty sure it is) which would make me have to fab my own or buy that pricy Pro-Jay intake setup.
thewird
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,603
Likes: 15
From: Toronto, Canada
You make a new shaft 
The exhaust needs to breath and so does the engine bay. Something could be made if enough thought goes into it but it would have to be designed around airflow for cooling those components, not just aero.
thewird
I love what you're doing Marco, keeping the car stock looking, sticker and sponsor free and having it pull ridiculous times is fantastic.
One aero mod that I've always wanted to do is a smooth underbody, not only would it help with cooling the engine bay but it should give you some real world aero advantages as well, not to mention it aligning with your goal of keeping the car stock looking. The new Tesla model S has a pretty sick underbody
Have you considered making a new firewall to move the engine back? While some organizations have rules against modifications to the firewall, there's actually a lot of unused space back there. If you have to strip the car to install a full cage per CSCS's new rules, might not be a bad time to do a new firewall as well, just a thought.
One aero mod that I've always wanted to do is a smooth underbody, not only would it help with cooling the engine bay but it should give you some real world aero advantages as well, not to mention it aligning with your goal of keeping the car stock looking. The new Tesla model S has a pretty sick underbody
Have you considered making a new firewall to move the engine back? While some organizations have rules against modifications to the firewall, there's actually a lot of unused space back there. If you have to strip the car to install a full cage per CSCS's new rules, might not be a bad time to do a new firewall as well, just a thought.
thewird
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,603
Likes: 15
From: Toronto, Canada
Sorry about the lack of updates recently. I've been so busy at the shop I barely have time to work on my car. Anyway, I ended up breaking in the car on the dyno to save time and did all my tuning there pretty much. Had the usual lack of grip on the dyno so I had some people sit in the back until they couldn't take the sound and fumes anymore so I ended up throwing a bunch of rims/tires in the back to weigh it down haha.
As for the results, its more or less what I was expecting. I now have a 9,500 RPM redline and slightly reduced torque which is what I wanted. I made slightly less peak HP but the powerband of the semi-pp is a million times better then last year, it just keeps pulling and never quits. The one issue I had was ridiculously high air intake temperatures, pegging my intake sensor at 98C in a single pull on the dyno so I don't really know how high they would go. This isn't really a surprise as the intercooler was barely adequate last year and I had planned to move the engine back and make a more massive v-mount but I had to hold that off due to lack of time to work on the car. I also have 3-4 boost leaks due to stripped intake manifold bolts and a hole in the LIM from the semi job which I didn't have time to fix so the future is quite hopefull. Here's a random pull on the dyno and where I'm at power wise with boiling intake temperatures lol.
So then of course the next step was to take it to the track of course. So I went to CSCS Grand Bend with the car after waking up 4 hours late and arriving at around 12:30 pm lol. This was the first time at that track and I only managed to get in around 10 laps due to coming in late. I was starting to get a feel for the track but didn't really know braking points yet and then it ended up thunder-storming for time attack so the organizers cancelled the timed runs due to safety. They used qualifying times for the points and I had managed to squeeze into 2nd in class with a lap time of 54.161 even though I didn't know the track due to my car being a monster lol. Had I came early or possibly even just running the timed runs, I'm pretty sure I would have come 1st. But anyway, it was good shake down for the car and I quite enjoyed pegging the tach at something OVER 9,000 back to back.
I had the boost turned down all the way at Grande Bend to keep the intake temps down but was still hitting like 80C. I'm going to be finally installed a water/methanol kit on the 20b to band-aid the intake temps until I have time to move the engine back and redo the v-mount. Hopefully that helps enough that I can run some boost in the thing. I think if I get a proper Pro-Jay semi-pp intake manifold and an adequate intercooler, this beast will just wake up and do some serious numbers on pump gas.
Some amazing pics from the day thanks to Jeff Beech... The fireballs are back thanks to wasting fuel from the semi-pp overlap!
thewird
As for the results, its more or less what I was expecting. I now have a 9,500 RPM redline and slightly reduced torque which is what I wanted. I made slightly less peak HP but the powerband of the semi-pp is a million times better then last year, it just keeps pulling and never quits. The one issue I had was ridiculously high air intake temperatures, pegging my intake sensor at 98C in a single pull on the dyno so I don't really know how high they would go. This isn't really a surprise as the intercooler was barely adequate last year and I had planned to move the engine back and make a more massive v-mount but I had to hold that off due to lack of time to work on the car. I also have 3-4 boost leaks due to stripped intake manifold bolts and a hole in the LIM from the semi job which I didn't have time to fix so the future is quite hopefull. Here's a random pull on the dyno and where I'm at power wise with boiling intake temperatures lol.
So then of course the next step was to take it to the track of course. So I went to CSCS Grand Bend with the car after waking up 4 hours late and arriving at around 12:30 pm lol. This was the first time at that track and I only managed to get in around 10 laps due to coming in late. I was starting to get a feel for the track but didn't really know braking points yet and then it ended up thunder-storming for time attack so the organizers cancelled the timed runs due to safety. They used qualifying times for the points and I had managed to squeeze into 2nd in class with a lap time of 54.161 even though I didn't know the track due to my car being a monster lol. Had I came early or possibly even just running the timed runs, I'm pretty sure I would have come 1st. But anyway, it was good shake down for the car and I quite enjoyed pegging the tach at something OVER 9,000 back to back.
I had the boost turned down all the way at Grande Bend to keep the intake temps down but was still hitting like 80C. I'm going to be finally installed a water/methanol kit on the 20b to band-aid the intake temps until I have time to move the engine back and redo the v-mount. Hopefully that helps enough that I can run some boost in the thing. I think if I get a proper Pro-Jay semi-pp intake manifold and an adequate intercooler, this beast will just wake up and do some serious numbers on pump gas.
Some amazing pics from the day thanks to Jeff Beech... The fireballs are back thanks to wasting fuel from the semi-pp overlap!
thewird
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,603
Likes: 15
From: Toronto, Canada
On another note, what do you guys think of Navin's Rocket Bunny FD built by me 
. Yes or no to the rear fenders for my car? Or keep working on the current prototypes?
thewird
. Yes or no to the rear fenders for my car? Or keep working on the current prototypes?thewird
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 256
From: Toronto
I agree, the Rocket Bunny rear fender doesn't integrate well with the curves of the FD.
I'm curious to see where the numbers end up once the boost leaks are fixed and the intake temps are cooler.
I'm curious to see where the numbers end up once the boost leaks are fixed and the intake temps are cooler.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Ontario
I've seen this thing a while back, with Marco messing around with stuff under the hood and on the ecu, it was magnificent. The rough original shape of the car is beautiful but with that level of performance you may want to do a lot of modifications to the exterior of the car.
"Elusive, not deceptive!”
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 930
Likes: 13
From: Slidell, LA
Marco,
Have you thought about just mounting the 3 rotor (low like you want it) with it's front in the same place as a 2 rotor,
That is... behind the steering rack and then angling the peripheral port runners forward to clear the firewall?
Oh yeah, did I mention full peripheral?
Barry
Have you thought about just mounting the 3 rotor (low like you want it) with it's front in the same place as a 2 rotor,
That is... behind the steering rack and then angling the peripheral port runners forward to clear the firewall?
Oh yeah, did I mention full peripheral?
Barry
