ScrappyDoo

iTrader: (7)

Well Terry has passed on, I really don't know what to think about all this. Her husband denied access to the parents to attend the bedside during her last moments. If this guy was carrying out Terry's wishes, he definately messed up her last moments on earth. Regardless of the other issues he should not have stopped a parent from attending the death of their child.

smnc

I agree.
The whole thing was a bloody mess.

Tragidies like that should make people set aside their differences and come together...

Bass

The whole thing brings to mind the validity of living wills and donor cards. I'd be interested to know what power living relatives have over the wishes of the 'patient'. I believe that as far as the donor card is concerned, your next of kin's wishes supercedes your own.

ChristopherL

Fact is, although this "husband" was still legally married to Terry, he abandoned her, got a new life and moved on. It is appalling that he could then assume the role of "guardian" while keeping her blood family away. That is not acceptable.

The only solution to a mess like this is to get a living will. Make it rock solid legal so your final days have no chance of becoming a media circus like this case. The only thing worse was to see that clown "Reverend" Jesse Jackson stick his face in the camera "on behalf" of the parents.

daem0n

yeah I'm surprised you guys all think this because I do too. Who knows what they're thinking in the US when the court appeals kept getting rejected. What a sad state of affairs. As a student in cognitive sciences, I can only see benefits to keeping someone like Terri alive...it's disgusting and upsetting.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Coming up on FOX! A new reality TV series where you can watch people die and not do a thing about it!

Disgusting. Welcome to America. This whole thing just makes me happy Im in this country. Not to offend anyone but what ever happend to conserving all life? Now-a-days its like if your not either rich or 100% healthy, your screwed. Its infuriating.

MoreCowBell

sad

p4nc7

iTrader: (1)

Quite sad, I find it stupid that the courts rejected their appeal to reinsert the feeding tube. And why exactly did they stop people from trying to give her water? Ah, stupid world we live in.

WHO

Thankfully this wouldn't happen in Canada because she would've got disconnected a long time ago if that was her (or her husband's) wish.
The law is much clearer up here.
What I find sad is that the media made a big deal out of this. Now obviously she wasn't aware of anything or didn't even feel the so-called starvation, but media made it seem like it was torture for her and made it much harder for her family/husband/friends.

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

What is sad is that this went on for 15 years.

It's obvious that the majority of people here have been lucky enough to avoid having to deal with a seriously ill loved one. Having to make the decision to "pull the plug" is harder than accepting they are gone. In a case like this, keeping them alive isn't merciful, it's selfish.

She told her husband that she didn't want to be kept alive. Her family even admits that they don't know her wishes - but that their wishes are that she stays "alive". How is that in the patient's best interest? Terri had no hope. Her brain had literally turned to liquid, and there was no chance of recovery. All these clips on TV of her blinking and "obaying commands" are simple reflexes that have been taken from weeks of footage. Even her father said that most of the time she wouldn't recognize commands.

The sad thing is that this happens every minute of every day - Terri is not an isolated incident. Write down what your wishes are.

Realistically she died in 1990. There was no "murder" here. I'm glad that she is finally at peace.

daem0n

I don't know if I agree with you guys on that. Although it may be "selfish" to keep someone alive that didn't want to, we don't know what she wanted. To say that her brain was dead is not accurate. If someone has enough brain activity to follow motion or respond to voices they are definitely not brain dead. It's sad that most people out there don't know anything about the brain's activity levels or capabilities. In this case I really don't believe the doctors knew what they were doing/saying. Anyone is going to die after 13 days without food or water...that's disgusting no matter how you look at it. If someone's being kept alive by a breathing machine that's a big difference. It's not like this person wasn't alive and we should all be feeling the guilt that in an advanced society that we could let something like this happen.

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

15 years folks... was he suppose to sit at her bedside for the next 15? It cost $80K USD a year to provide for her. A team of Dr.'s concluded she was in a sustained vegetative state. The parents were delusional and not comfortable with letting go. They jumped at anything. Oh! A tear rolled down her cheek, she can see we're here praying for her!!!! With her husband who is also her Legal Guardian a witness to (others also) her request prior to the incident of not being kept alive in such a state HER wishes should have been followed LONG ago.

The topic came up between my girlfriend and I and she said don't let me live 15 days if they've soundly determined there is no brain activity and no hope for it. Then we went to her parents for the weekend and the topic came up. My gf told her parents what she would wish in the same position and of course her Mother was like "I don't know, I think I'd fight for you" right in front of her after hearing what SHE would want. Bloody meddling parents.

Put me in a bed for 15 years and have someone wiping my *** for me and feeding me then kill me already.

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

15 years folks... was he suppose to sit at her bedside for the next 15? It cost $80K USD a year to provide for her. A team of Dr.'s concluded she was in a sustained vegetative state. The parents were delusional and not comfortable with letting go. They jumped at anything. Oh! A tear rolled down her cheek, she can see we're here praying for her!!!! With her husband who is also her Legal Guardian a witness to (others also) her request prior to the incident of not being kept alive in such a state HER wishes should have been followed LONG ago. And her parents were not disallowed to join her at her bedside. It was her brother and his wife that the husband had barred in the final moments. Still a bit much.

The topic came up between my girlfriend and I and she said don't let me live 15 days if they've soundly determined there is no brain activity and no hope for it. Then we went to her parents for the weekend and the topic came up. My gf told her parents what she would wish in the same position and of course her Mother was like "I don't know, I think I'd fight for you" right in front of her after hearing what SHE would want. Bloody meddling parents.

Put me in a bed for 15 years and have someone wiping my *** for me and feeding me then kill me already.

SophiaCDN

I'm all for euthanasia and assisted suicide (not the same thing, and then there are many shades, i.e. active euthanasia, passive euthanasia etc.).

I don't think she was ever responding to commands though, and they of course tested her to see if she experiences pain etc. Considering all of the legalities involved, I am willing to bet money that they performed all tests on her and presented those results in court to argue the case. So, I don't believe she was suffering either... I also think that the media is misrepresenting her condition with the footage they are showing.

Who would better know her wishes than her husband? Or looking at it this way, who would want to stay alive under those conditions? I wouldn't, so, here it is black on white: If I am brain dead, don't keep me alive.

Look at it this way: A slow starvation death could have been avoided if euthanasia was legal. I'm glad that some countries (e.g. Belgium) and even some states (e.g. Oregon) are now allowing assisted suicide. You're allowed to ask a physician to subscribe you drugs with which you can kill yourself, after following a series of steps of course (i.e. numerous written requests, proof of terminal condition, etc.).

Yes, I have obviously read up on this topic extensively

SophiaCDN

But yes, the thing with the family fighting was horrible....

daem0n

I agree that euthenasia can be ok in certain circumstances. Letting someone starve to death is definitely not ethical in any society. If you understand the brain you can't tell me that they determined that she had no brain activity when she was able to follow voices or objects with her eyes. If you agree with this treatment an equivalent would be giving an abortion to a newborn baby...they're about equivalent in brain activity. Of course we know that the baby will improve and learn things as it progresses. We would assume that Terri would not but keeping her alive was not a waste of money for anyone. When do you say someone costs too much to keep alive? How much is someone worth? Was she suffering - all signs point to no. Who's being selfish here?...probably the husband for not having the patience to put up with taking care of her anymore.

And on a side note...do you guys (not everyone but people arguing against this point) have anyone that you've ever had to take care of? I have two close relatives that I/we take care of. One of them has alzheimers. Just because they can't think properly and are losing their brain functionality doesn't mean that we should let them die. Because they forget to eat, should we not feed them? Yeah it might be hard on you to take care of a person or see them in this state of affairs but suck it up...that's life and if you have compasion for someone you'd do it in an instant.

SophiaCDN

Was she really or is the family just saying that out of wishful thinking when a few times out of a million she moved her eyes in their direction when they said or did something?

Exactly!

That is a very unfair statement to make. Very unfair. He didn't have to take care of her, he could easily have divorced her and forgotten about her, instead of fighting for 15 years for her wishes.

ScrappyDoo

iTrader: (7)

The only good that has come out of this tragedy is the conversations that Racerjason described. Countless other families have been forced to consider the implication of such a scenario because of the Terry Schiavo case.

I was 100 percent behind believing the husband was acting in the what he believed are Terry's interest until this morning. It doesn't matter how much I love my wife, I cannot deny the love of parent and child. I could never shut her parents out of her last moments. If anything I would have stepped aside out of respect for a parent having to experience something that should not normally happen. A couple is always aware that there will be day when one of them will be grieving but a parent should never out live their child.

But in Michael's defence he gave up a large portion of his life and devoted it to caring for Terry. He even became a Registered nurse so that he could care for her. That is unprecedented commitment. I don't believe he is the heartless monster the media portrays him as but understandably emotions may have gotten the better of him in the last few days.

SophiaCDN

On the flipside, just imagine what would have happened had the parents been allowed into the room... It would have been a catastrophe.... Parents probably trying to give her water, resulting in screaming and fighting... It could have gotten very very ugly.

daem0n

I've watched a lot of documentary video on the case and that's just what I believe. I've worked with handicapped people who can vocally communicate and she did just as well as anyone else.

You're right, I don't know him well enough to pass personal judgement. I just know from the financial records and his fight to have her feeding tube removed that I would not assume he was fighting for her best interests.


I agree with what you're saying but I don't know about his motives to become a registered nurse. There were a few instances that a nursing facility could've taken good care of her where he denied her treatment. He was awarded a large sum of money to take care of her medically and instead used it to pay lawyers for his fight to end her life. I think his fight was a little biased. I can't see letting someone in his position to be making all of her choices for her especially when her family was so against it. You can't side on one side or the other in an argument like this when one side means death. Until you can figure out the motives, her condition, court hearings, etc she should've been kept alive. Once a person dies, they're dead. Of course this has been going on for many years but has only become public in the last couple. I don't think I'm going to write more on this topic because a lot of you guys are my friends and I don't want to argue. We have different opinions and that's ok.

SophiaCDN

Nobody is trying to argue with you Joe, it's just a healthy debate, nobody is taking anything personally

daem0n

haha ok well as long as we all know that I can debate but all too often my friends take it personally so I usually just shut-up :P

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

This is a debate, and one that cannot be won - as there are a lot of personal beliefs and choices in play. All we can do is voice our opinions and start a dialogue as Jason did.

From the documentaries I've seen about this case in particular, I can say that I believe the doctors that she was brain dead. On TV last night they were showing the clips of her blinking and following commands, and asking her doctors why they called her brain dead. The doctors said that these clips had been edited to appear that she was lucid. There's a clip of her father saying "Open your eyes Terri" to which she did. The doctor then said "Yeah, but they didn't show the 15 minutes of video previous to that where her father said "open your eyes Terri" a few hundred times with no result - they only ever show the one that works. They also taped her for weeks around the clock, and her actions and movements were the same if there were people there or not.

When the brain is in a persistant vegetative state, all of the bodies energy goes into retaining function for the brainstem. This is what keeps you breathing/blinking etc. The result is that the rest of the brain atrefies and basically turns into spinal fluid. And it only gets worse as time goes on. Terri's brain was just a black hole on the cat scan - there was literally no hope.

It wasn't about money either. Terri's husband had sued a doctor in 1991 and won $1M towards her care. Turns out that the doctor didn't pick up on her condition beforehand even though she had just had a physical. (lack of potassium caused by belemia). If it was about money, then he's have taken the parents up on their offer to "buy him out" and become her legal guardian and care givers. He didn't do that because he believed that this is what SHE wanted.

The parents main arguement was that she was a catholic, and Pope John Paul had taught that you shouldn't let someone die - so there was no way that she'd want this. Um... The Pope said that 8 years after she had her heart attack - I hardly think that's relevant. I still think that it was selfish of them to try and hold on for so long, they needed to let go.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Here's something I am not clear on....I have heard two versions:

1. She could respond stimulation with slight twitches or whatever. This would indicate some higher brain activity. So she would have some kind of thought, emotions, etc.

2. She was measurably brain dead. No higher brain activity was ever indicated, only the brain stem keeping the automatic body functions running. This means tha she has no conscienceness, emotions, thoughts, awareness, etc.

If number 2 is correct, then she was essentially a human shaped house plant, and no more guilt should be felt in her death then would be felt mowing the lawn. Legally, I'm sure she can be considerd a person. But in reality, she has no thoughts, emotions, FREE WILL, concienceness or any of the characteristics we associate with human (and animal...except the free will part) life.

Whizbang

even if i had some minor high brain activity, but am not functionig enough to know what is going on ever, to the point where you have the same amount of brain function activities as a grasshopper, correction, less because the grasshopper can move and feed itself. I would rather be allowed to die. Doctors are playing god way too much.