r4itei

iTrader: (1)

so I finally have a 7! finally, after years and years of research and wanting =)
10th AE w/ 117k

me and a few friends have been talking smack about who's car is better
so we decided to have a race (track, of course). sometime in july/august.

one friend has an AE86, he's gonna swap a 4AG silvertop into it, modding it hes hoping for like ~260 or so he tells me. i dont really research that engine so i wouldnt know.

the other friend has an 99 impreza, he's trying for an STI engine but i doubt it.


now, one rule says i have to use stock ECU.

how much power can i attain with stock ecu? i wont up the power right away but preferably in stages and go to track days with the 7club whenever, ive never been before.

but i do know i should learn slowly til i get comfortable then up the power.

tips/suggestions/comments?

i'd be glad to hear em. =)

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

HEY...IDEA!
they said STOCK ECU right?..the RTEK 2.1 is a Stock ECU!.(it just has a Chip in there..lol!)
throw that in there,with a Stage 3 turbo,750/1000's and Walk all over them!

Bwek

iTrader: (4)

You'll destroy the Ae86 with a silvertop, just a stock 10th ae would, but for an extra kick 3" turbo back just to seal the deal

FYI the silver top is 160 crank hp stock and even less torque, a healthy turbo2 motor with a 3" turbo back will make nearly double that at the crank

Mr.Cool

iTrader: (2)

i dont understand people, why put all these big turbos and fancy expensive parts just to make a bit more power. yo i know this decal guy down the street...

r4itei

iTrader: (1)

misterstyx69
the rtek idea sounds great but i dont wanna be too overpowered with the stage 3 turbo, lol, turbo has to stay stock too. stage 1? haha

bwek
this idea sounds great, would i need a different ECU to handle increased air flow?

Mr.Cool
mine's gonna have 10 decals, all add +5HP! thats 50 extra! imma whoop ***. haha i still need to meet ya and see your ride!

r4itei

iTrader: (1)

any other tips and ideas? like the guy with the impreza? or whatever words of advice.

Redshft

iTrader: (1)

I assume this race is going to be a drag race?
If so, the Impreza will take care of it's self when it destroys the transmission with the first AWD drop-clutch launch with anything more than stock power. Encourage everybody to take a few practice runs first just to make sure it gets the full slate of abuse.

But, to combine the above, RTEK (still a stock ECU in there) with upgraded exhaust and injectors and you should be in pretty good shape.
(Plus a good maintenance of course.. fresh plugs, fluids, fuel filter etc.)

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

If you wanna maximize your decal:power ratio, stickers that say "+5HP" actually add 10 hp.
5 for the sticker, 5 for... well the sticker says +5 so obviously... you know what I'm saying!

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

So you're to stick to bolt on mods, and they get to swap motors? This is a drag race? I guess they know to be afraid.

260hp from a non-turbo'd 4AG is just going to be fantasy. Even the 160 or so the silvertop is supposed to have made stock is apparently pretty much fantas - more like 145-150. The GC Impreza with a WRX or STI motor could be a demon, if the drivetrain were swapped also. For you, as already suggested, 3" exhaust, and for good measure, Rtek2.1 properly tuned will maximize your stock-ish potential, along with some good tires. If it's only a drag, see about getting some cast-off, but not too-heat cycled Kumho v710s or Hoosier A6's, grippy tires that build heat/grip quickly. Or some drag radials, of course.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

There's a company called Hasselgren. Does or did supply the Formula Toyota engines. 250hp at some ungodly RPM. A mere $50K US. With that in mind I doubt your buddy is going to be pulling 260 with bolt-ons. However the AE86 is a lot lighter.

If your other friend figures out how to launch his STi swapped Impreza you may be in trouble, but I've seen guys try to launch them at autocrosses and they just fall on their faces if they don't get it perfect. He'll have the AWD grip advantage but it will also weigh more.

r4itei

iTrader: (1)

forgot to mention, not drag race. we're not interested in straight line. ae86 boy wants to go to shannonville.

sounds awesome. now i gotta research how/what an RTEK does exactly. ive been spoiling myself reading TitaniumTT's build thread on RCC. Motec isnt exactly affordable tho. haha.


oh man if i put stickers on top of each other, itll be exponential!


well i was talkin to him and turns out i misheard. he thinks around 200 ballpark. and not drag race. and im stuck on bolt-on mods cause i cant exactly afford to drop a 3-rotor... haha. planning on running either Michelin Exaltos or Star Spec Dirrezas for tires. depends on financial situation. i doubt he'll get an STI engine but who knows..


i hope he doesnt get an STI engine but hes also considering the WRX engine. something about more power. just wondering, how much help will his AWD give? in terms of cornering and all that jazz. we're running at track, not drag race.

DaoNhatHai

iTrader: (38)

LS2 + T606 + stock CTS-V ECU

Redshft

iTrader: (1)

If it's not a drag race, why did you immediately start talking about power?
Suspension and brakes my friend.

Good shocks and springs, probably a bigger front bar (I'm not so sure about Turbo's vs. NAs on that) and you should be good to go. Talk to Eric and Al about settings/alignments etc for Shannonville.

Good track-worthy pads (I like Carbotech XP10s, but that's me) braided lines and fresh fluid and you should be all set.

I've never run at Shannonville, so I don't know if it's a big HP track or not, but, I would guess that if budget is limited, spending your money on as high-end of rubber as you can put underneath the car and stock power will be faster than junk rubber and a ton of power.

23Racer

My suggestions, for what their worth, is to put a good cat back on the car, a free flowing intake and make sure your motor is in good condition and tune. That should be enough power. Then get some 16x8 wheels and bolt on a set of 245x40x16 BFG R1's like Al runs. They fit well and give lots of adjustment room. Tons of stick and plenty durable. Get some very good shocks with a proper adjustment setup like Koni's. Adapt a coil over sleeve onto your stock struts and put 400 lb front springs and 275 rear springs in the car. Purchase upper front strut adjustment plates and dial in as much negative front camber and caster that is possible. Get a set of Suspension Technique Bars and install them. Change the control arm bushings and rear toe steer bushings for proper Poly ones.

Then move into the brakes. Go stainless lines front and rear, a set of hawk Blues on the front and blacks on the rear. Oh yeah and get a good drivers seat. You slide all over in a stock seat and at Shannonville you will get thrown around a lot.

Do all this and you will smoke your buddies cars, not by a little, but by a ton if you can drive well. You should also be faster than the majority of race cars out there as well.

If you don't want to spend that much, the easist and cheapest way to go really fast is better tires and gut your car. Take as much weight out of it as possible. It is cheap and easy to remove everything you don't need to drive the car. It makes the car look more hardcore and all it takes is some time.

Thats it.

Eric

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

^^^^^
100% correct to me! Power is nothing if you cant control it! Listen to Eric as that is the perfect idea. Also im assuming your FC is a turbo right Focus on maintaining mid to high rpms as I know from my history with my Tii, lightened flywheel and a good clutch + suspension, brakes, and maintenance is the way to go!



Jay

Bwek

iTrader: (4)

around a track a stock turbo 2 or gxl will kill an ae86, solid axles belong on trucks not cars

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

400whp

r4itei

iTrader: (1)

haha sounds like a good solution!

what about the impreza? i dont know what he'll bring, if he's really gonna go STI engine or WRX


get better tires and suspension, replace bushings. gotcha. i will pm you if i have any more questions! so stock t2 seats arent good enough?


i wasnt planning on aiming for crazy hp figures, i just figured ~220HP is a nice touch, for added fun. yes its turbo. ^__^

FC3Sdrift

iTrader: (5)

your car will top out at 140mph......You need NOS!!!
Just find the biggest bottle Of NOS you can, you'll need to get 2 of them.
but be careful NOS isn't for amatuers



















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nYXkKN1k7M

23Racer

I had forgotten about this. It made me laugh all over again.

Seriously, I am delighted that the OP is looking for ways to make his car faster on track. I will support anybody who sks for my assistance to do this. Big thumbs up to the OP.

Eric

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

SEAT TIME!! I thought it was a drag race like everyone else, but make sure your car is in good running order, schedule this showdown for the end of the season and spend the summer at track days. You'll beat the pants of your buddies if your smooth and they are just ham fisting it around the track. Tires, brakes, cooling, a few suspension tweaks and you'll be good to go. Also, your buddies doing engine swaps will have to dump all their money into that before they can tackle the handling bits. Since your staying with the engine you have you've got the advantage of being able to make adjustments where they'll matter most on a road course.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Mostly what Eric said. In order, good tires (if going with streets, Hankook RS-3 are very comparable to Star Specs, at lower cost, but not as good in thewet/cold, any r-comp other than an A6), good tune, cat back, better springs/struts (good ones like Koni yellows, with some sort of coilover sleeve and much higher-rate springs is good, but even Eibach or Racing Beat street lowering springs would help, along with decent shocks like KYB GR2 (cheap), or KYB AGX (not necessarily a lot less expensive than Konis). Get rid of the toe control bushings at the back, and replace front control arm bushings with poly. A stiffer front bar is important - these cars oversteer at track speeds, even if the snap oversteer is removed by getting rid of the rear DTSS bushings.

That, and learn to drive - go autocross (cheap), or do lapping days (not as cheap, but more like what your proposed contest is like). Seat time, and learning and tuning the car.

Helikaon

well ive got stock ecu with only a threshhold controller for my secondaries and im running around 380hp on a conservitive tune 13psi, i could jump my boost to 20psi if i wanted to and make over 450 after i tune it again, but keep in mind a stock port will restrict the hp gain you get from mods, im running a street port and a TII engine swap in my 87, 3" (maybe 3.5") turbo back exhaust on a T3/T4 turbo, no cat.
but since your looking for a track speed, go with tires, suspention set up, and brake set up.
buy what you think is good and than on different days change small things like suspention stiffness and things like that t help with your cornering speed.
best thing to do would be the street port it, get larger secondarys and a threshold controller for the secondaries, and dear god do not forget a A/F sensor mounted were you can see it, if you can run street slicks, and personally im the kind of person for a stiff suspention set up, but you need the tires for it or you wil be drifting the track instead of driving it.

r4itei

iTrader: (1)

right. so game plan is either star specs or ad08. im ordering KYB AGX...unless someone is selling a used set...

for the springs, what are your thoughts on the tanabe gf210? i've been trying to find info on whether it's progressive or linear but haven't found out. id prefer progressive since i'd be using it on the street as well...
but other choices on springs would be the suspension technique one or the racing beat one but i'm a noob so i dont know.... opinions?

I will get rid of DTSS and replace the suspension bushings. prothane vs energy suspension? searched but not found... perhaps i didnt use the right search terms. anyhow, thoughts on the suspension bushings?

23Racer

Sounds great! What are the rates of the Tanabe gr210? That will determine if they are a good choice or not. The other area and forgive me if I have over looked it, is to reduce the weight of the car as much as possible. I did some computor modelling and at Mosport every 100 lbs of weight reduction was worth 1 second in reduced lap times, with no other changes. At Shannonville, it is worth even more.

Go through the car and decide what you can pull out of it, even temporarily for the Track Event. The reduced weight makes it easier to accelerate the car, turn the car and stop the car and you then get a bigger performance bang for what you are doing to the car.

Al's car weighs approximately 75 lbs lighter than mine and you can really really tell at the track. Seriously look at the car, it is maybe the cheapest way to pick up a second on track.

Eric