thewird

iTrader: (8)

LOL, new CSCS rules... I feel this one was targeted at me haha

2.2.6. Tops of tires must be inside bodywork as viewed from directly above.

And this one basically has Ken Wagon's name on it...

2.5.1. Exhaust must exit outside the body of the vehicle. Exhausts exiting the hood are not permitted due to safety concerns during an engine failure.

And looks like I need to set the record this year! They're kicking me out of Unlimited next year with my full interior...

4.5.3. Roll cages will be MANDATORY for all Unlimited class competitors starting January 1st, 2015.

thewird

RXeckless

iTrader: (11)

And you did not think this was coming? Your car is disqualified!
cheers

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Not yet, it will only be not allowed in unlimited class starting 2015, I can still run this year. Also, I can always move to super street class then and do DORIFTO TIME ATTACK on 285 street tires . For this year, I just need to fix my fenders, which I was planning on doing anyway.

thewird

KenSpeC

iTrader: (16)

Yep pretty much these rules were tailor made for us lol

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

if I have any time this year between rallys I think I might try a CSCS.

I think cars like yours and mine get bumped into unlimited regardless though don't they? Kinda dumb when a stock ZR-1 is 90% of the performance with zero mods.

IAN

iTrader: (3)

I gather the only reason why to have your wheels covered is for throwing rocks around?

I guess CSCS is becoming more structured. Also wonder why I have not seen any sigma time attack days posted yet. Not that it matters to me. Need tires and rims and new suspension. O and maybe an engine installed in the car LOL

thewird

iTrader: (8)

I think it has more to do with presentation. The cars were getting too "because race car". They even added rules that all cars must have bumpers and hoods on etc.

thewird

raceratheart15

iTrader: (1)

they were scared you guys would sweep the events aha not terrible rules quite yet

nissannx

It's a sign that you've got an awesome car and driver setup when the rules are designed around you. Well done! That means you've won!

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

2.2.6 the first person I would think of is you Marco LOL
2.5.1 same goes for Ken with the dual open wastegates

I guess while it is unfair for some it makes sense in a way. I guess they do not want the "because race car" in anything but the unlimited class and if you run in unlimited, you gotta match their specs bahaha

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

My diffuser puts me in unlimited lol

23Racer

I would look at the rules in a different way as an overall success for what you guys are doing. The guys that run CSCS have to get insurance for every weekend they put on. To get that insurance one of the things that the insuring company looks at are the speeds that are being attained. Obviously, you guys are starting to go so fast and develop so much power that there is concern about safety. Wheels outside of the bodywork can kick up stones and without anything to constrain them they can shoot off like bullets.

The terminal speeds you guys are pulling on the striaghts and corners are now so fast that there is concern about safety if you go off. All it would take is one accident where somebody gets seriously hurt or God Forbid, killed, where basic and reasonably foreseen safety measures could have prevented it and the party is over. Your estate could sue the organisers and say that they should have known better or the insurance company would have to pay out or the track owner would have to pay out, etc.... Nobody wants to have something like that happen, so they institute basic safety measures.

The exhaust through the hood rule is so that when you potentually have engine issues, you don't dump oil, steam, gas out of your exhaust pipes all over the windshield. A basic rule almost all racing bodies have across North America.

You are just victims of your success. Its simple. You are going super fast now and you need to upgrade your safety a bit.

Eric

MIBagentQ

iTrader: (3)

I think that makes sense except that I think the rules actually have the opposite effect in respect to safety. With the crazy times being pulled in unlimited class, many rising stars are going to want to avoid competing in that class if they can help it. There are several 50+ treadwear tires that can achieve very fast lap times and if a responsible and safety conscious racer felt it prudent to install a racing cage in their cars, the new rules would greatly disincentivise that decision. I am not familiar with how other professional racing organizations like NASCAR, f1, wrc, LeMans etc deal with it but I would assume that their rules typically restrict performance while mandating safety, restricting safety feels illogical to me. Unlimited class requires that you have a full cage and a fireproof racing suit, would it make sense to say that drivers in street and super street aren't allowed to wear a racing suit? If not why aren't they allowed to have cages?

KenSpeC

iTrader: (16)

Lol i agree about my dump tubes, but when you say that they have insurance and safety to worry about then why do they penalize people who are concerned with safety? Not allowing roll bars in street class, and a full cage in "super street". If i knew they were going to change the rules i would have kept my bolt in rollbar. I think that its unfair to release these rules so late with only 2 months before the first event....and a week after i finish my cage...but then again it isnt about me..i think :S
My point is, safety mods should not be penalized. OTA awards you pips for having a rollcage as it does add weight. I work in the ER and i see a lot of mvcs and burn victims so i installed a fire suppression inside my car. And commonsense dictates removal of carpet so you dont have flammable material in the car no? But obviously i was mistaken. I guess my stock toyota FJ cruiser will be in unlimited awd because it doesnt come with carpets.
I know its hard to please everyone and making rules is difficult but i feel that some obvious thought should have been made.
And the best rule that pretty much negates having a rule book is the fact the on race day, any of their officials can declare your car illegal for your class. My worry is because i have expressed my concern over the rules, is that now i have a target on my back. I do like that rule that if somebody wants to protest you, they have to put up a $200 bond first. If its a legit protest then you keep your money, if it isnt then you lose $200. Now who is going to risk $200 to do this? Not me. The rulebook has been taken down for "revisions" so lets see what they come up with. If its all the same ill move to unlimited class (since i was forced there anyways) and be done with it.

23Racer

So let me get this straight, in CSCS you are penalized a class for adding safety items? If you add a cage to your street car, you get bumped to unlimited? Theoretically adding a cage will stiffen up your chassis, but now you have to haul around another 200 to 300 lbs of weight. A cage is actually a performance deduction not a benefit.

It does seem like Ken, Jim and Marco have targets on their backs. Maybe you need to drive a carbon Subaru to be able to win, lol. Honestly, this is the issue I had with the CSCS series. It is well run and great for the modded street cars, but as soon as you show up with a race car, you get bumped to Unlimited. There is no way my NA car with its 200 rwhp can compete with the 400+ HP cars in Unlimited..

I liked the Sigma events as test days as the price was right and I got lots of lap time, but I would like it on bigger tracks so that I can let my car stretch its legs. At TMP it was mostly in 1st and second with a quick upshift into 3rd, then back down.

Ken, have you looked at doing the OTA series with your car? You should be able to kick a$$ with it their, however I don't know how your car would fit under their rules.

Eric

KenSpeC

iTrader: (16)

Yep, penalized for safety. But there are no restrictions on hp. So basically you can build a 1000hp car with no safety equipment and be good to go. There was an incident a few years ago when a stock subaru hit the haybale on the main straight and rolled over. Only after that, helmets were made mandatory.
Luckily for Jim, he got out at the right time. Like i said, i am trying to remain respectful but when i have spent hard earned money and time to build a car to fit in a class that i can be competitive in, only to have a rule book released 2 months before the first event and now i am bumped to class against mclarens, gtrs, ferraris, ariel atom, sashas Z and marco's monster where i have no chance of being competitive, thats when it gets frustrating. And i have to spend more money to get slicks and spend more to make the car legal.
I havent thought of doing OTA, depending on whats left of my budget ill see. But ill be running sigma for sure

Mr.Cool

iTrader: (2)

$200 doesn't seem like enough. Back when my dad used to race PRO GP250 a protest would cost you $500 (and this was in the 90's) generally bike protests were because someone thought you were cheating with your engine build (over bore ect.) so when protested they would tear your engine down in the pits, if you weren't cheating, you got $500 to do a fresh rebuild. that makes sense to me.

I remember one time, one of the guys that raced against my dad (they were friends in a way) came to him and said "common man, your cheating" my dad laughed and said "no Im not, its stock" (like he says with every motor he builds lol) the guy proclaimed that he was and my dad said "what makes you think that I am?" so the guy says "because Im cheating and I still cant catch you!" LOL

But ya I think the protesting thing is the way to go, but $200 is pennies.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

In all honesty Marco, I've never been part of an event where a sanctioning body allowed that much exposed tire relative to the bodywork.

Then again, I'm not big on the Canadian scene.

Question for all you CSCS track rats: How many RX-7's have finished season ending champions? Which years were this and what class were they?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

3.2.7. Drivers in the Unlimited Class, MUST wear a fire resistant driving suit bearing either a FIA or SFI designation . Unlimited drivers are strongly encouraged to wear additional fire protective clothing such as gloves, racing shoes and underwear.

3.2.2. During competition, both driver and passenger door windows must be in an up position (closed position). If window has been removed a window net must be present.

Damnit, noticed these today. What's wrong with a t-shirt and shorts, we aren't actually racing, its time attack ffs... And I've never driven on a track with my windows up, rotaries are too hot... CSCS is starting to become a pain in the ***.

thewird

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

... Can't tell if that was a sarcastic comment...

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Your talking to the guy that runs the car that's faster then most cars on the track without a cage, full interior, and oem seats. I can't really disagree with the rule, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd rather not buy a fire suit if I can help it.

It really doesn't make sense though, cause I can just move to super street and now my car is somehow fire prone? It's the way they're requiring the rules that makes no sense. None of their safety rules make sense. Just by the class you pick, your car is now more or less safe regardless of speed or mods.

I guess my gripe is that we're not even racing, this is like the safest thing you can do. If I ever run regional racing then I expect to be fully equipped for safety but for time attack I'm just loling at this stuff >_>

thewird

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

Man, you complain a lot. lol
If you want to keep your car a street car, keep it on the street then. Quit complaining. You're the last person who should be making fun of the rules set out by CSCS since everyone can point at your car and say "this is why we HAVE TO MAKE RULES for people on the track." You may take some personal gratification in that statement, but for the amount of time you're at racetracks this constant garbage you're spreading on the internet about "race track rules are pointless this and that, my car is indestructible and not prone to accidents or other cars hitting me or losing control and hitting someone else, blah blah blah" is hurting the grassroots scene more than the rule changes. Whether that's the case, or you just don't care about your personal safety (obviously) you're not the only one on the track and time attack, by comparison, may be "safer" than road racing, but it certainly isn't "safe" by the definition of the term.

And as for the rule changes themselves, they're 'questionable' at worst. They certainly don't deserve the amount of flack they've been taking, when I have it on good word that CSCS has been contacted by 1 person out of every 100 people complaining online. This means nobody cares enough to call and discuss a counterargument or better solution. CSCS has already said there are amendments being made to some points they overlooked.

I don't mean to be too offensive here Marco, but you're starting a business in this community and you're setting a terrible example for new racers and spreading some of the worst advice I've ever seen, for people who are supposed to trust you with their cars, track advice, etc. "Nah, don't worry about safety equipment and complain about the rules." Whether you truly care about this or not, I think, will determine how long-term your success will be when the shop opens it's doors. Lord knows how many bridges you're burning already...

23Racer

Personally, I have seen way to many issues on track, even at relatively slow speeds to ever think about going on track without the basic minimum of safety gear. In reading the rules, it seems like they are taking a relatively good stab at starting to implement some safety standards without killing the program. They are breaking it down based on potential speed of the cars that fit in a class. It doesn't relate equally in all cases, but its a start.

Not pointing any fingers, but some of you guys have been going so fast that if anything unplanned (thats why its called an accident) happens, then it could be a major off and people beside the driver could get hurt.

One of my major issues with Sigma and CSCS is the people hanging over the pit wall at TMP. Man, its really easy to make a mistake or have a tire go down and climb that wall and take out a crowd of people. That would stop all street car lapping in Ontario. If all I had to do was roll up my windows and wear a helmet and pants and long sleeved shirt to continue what I liked to do, you could be sure that I would do it. Man, I have to wear a race suit, balaclava, full face helmet, socks underwear, HANS device, belts, containment seat etc.... I have recorded in car temps of over 140 degrees F, before I pull out on to the track to start a 3 Hour race. This is in a car thats slower than the 3 rotor turbo cars or Subies or the Mitsubishi's that are running in packs during Sigma or CSCS days. There is a pretty good chance of an off any time you are on track and carrying huge speed and thats why I always wear all my stuff every time I go on track. Its all part of the deal to do what I want and make sure that it continues.

Eric

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I think this is a major difference between the American and Canadian racing scene, so much so that I was shocked when I first started at some of these track days when I moved up to Toronto temporarily.

At the US HPDE/PDX/TT's, safety is paramount. Rarely do you see a track day like a Touge or even a Sigma run the way they are. Not to say that it's inherently bad, but some of the things that I see happen at Cayuga, I seriously question.

Cars full of passengers, lack of corner workers, random passes when people aren't of the same skill level, guys that try to learn without formal instruction, not having consistent point-by signals, all of these are big negatives in my book.

Now you might say, well it's worked so far, and that's the concern I have. SO FAR.

Why some of these CSCS rules are pure jokes, I welcome any extra safety rules. I agree with Marco that there needs to be some more consistency with the application of these safety rules but the rules need to be comprehensive enough to capture, like an umbrella, all cars that are too fast for their own good.

IAN

iTrader: (3)

I have always attended track days with a half caged car (When I crossed into a bigger turbo) and always were jeans and long sleeve shirt and helmet.

The window thing I understand as in a roll over they don't want your hands flinging out the window but dam I hate closed windows. I gather you can still have the passenger seat window open?