Why is the Hawk dust damaging? If you've heard bad things about the EBC Greens, why would you buy them? I believe there's a price premium associated with them. If you're not comfortable with either, there are other brands besides EBC and Hawk.

As for the Ford Spec Dot 3 fluid, as you and I both mentioned, it has to be changed more often. All fluid takes in moisture, the Ford Spec stuff just does it faster. If you were taking the car to the track you need to change it more often anyway, so absorbing water isn't the primary concern. Another advantage is that the Ford stuff can be found anywhere for $3 a bottle. For the expensive stuff you're looking at more like $30/bottle and you'll need 3-4 (can't remember exactly). If your brakes go (like mine did a couple years back at Shannonville) and you need replacement fluid, you're going to end up doing the job twice, once with readily available stuff and another with your expensive stuff, instead of once with Ford Spec.

 

yeah, i should have gone into more detail about what i said...

well the Hawk pads i'm just going on what i have heard, i did a few searches and quite a few people mention that the dust from Hawk pads is not easy to clean. i'm not quite sure what it is in their compound that does that, but they seem to use more metals.

when i said i heard bad things about the EBC Green, this is only from people who have taken them on the track. but it is not a track pad anyways.
everything i have heard about them on the street has been good. good initial bite, managable dust, and hard to fade...

i know there are a lot of other brake pads out there, that's why i keep bumping this thread
unfortunately here in Canada, Hawk and EBC seem to be the most readily available. unless any knows sources for other brake pad manufacturers??

 

I've used Hawk HP+'s on both an 87 GX and an 87 Tll, and ran them both at Mosport and Shannonville. No fade with either (maybe I'm just not going that fast), and no excessive rotor wear. No question there is dust!

Strangely enough, I seem to have better brake control and 'feel' in the GX than in the Tll, and the GX feels like it hauls down faster. Maybe thats just because I'm going a little faster in the Tll.

Using Motul for brake fluid 'cause its boiling point is significantly higher that the Ford DOT 3 product. Probably not so much of an issue in a light car like an RX7, but gives a little peace of mind and you dont have to bleed the brakes so often.

'Know some of the Mustang track guys have changed to Motul because the put soooo much heat into the front rotors, they'll start to lose brakes at places like Shannonville full track or Dunnville.

On the other hand, the Ford DOT 3 is probably best in its class and cheap to boot.

 

There's no worry about the 4 piston brakes fading at Shannonville. Here's my testimonial why: http://www.geocities.com/jeffguilfoil/brakes.html

The Motul stuff is rate at a dry boiling point of 593F compared to 550F for the Ford Dot 3 stuff. As you say, I would expect a Mustang weighing nearly 1000lbs more weight and lesser brakes to be more taxing on the fluid.

The single piston brakes should stop the car in a similar distance to the four piston brakes under a situation that isn't taxing them too much.

As for the other brands of pads, what's wrong with getting them from the US shipped by USPS?

 

good info guys, Snrub i remember reading that unfortunate incident before

like mentioned, even if i take it to the track i don't expect my NA to be able to fade the TII brakes very easily, no matter what pad.
i'm sure i won't notice too much off a difference in stopping power or fade between the more expensive pads, so basically i want something that will last long with "managable" dust.

you are right, i COULD get them shipped from the US, but i would obviously prefer to get them from Canada. i guess what i really want to know is a good alternative to the Hawk HPS or EBC Green and Red offerings.

at the moment i am going to with an EBC pad, unless someone convinces me otherwise.
i'm looking at the EBC red. it's an aggressive ceramic compound, which interests me...

PS: i think you have convinced me on the Ford fluid, lol. now tell me the best place to get it

 

Having only used the HP+ 'performance' pads, I don't know how they compare to the other performance products. My buudy's 03 Cobra started off with HPS, switched to HP+, and found them noticably better (less fade more grip) on the track. Both 'dust', but its more noticable on the HP+. The HP+ are fine on the street. Initially they squeally a fair bit, but a lot of that has gone away with use.

On brake fluid...as Snrub says, the difference between boiling point the Ford and Motul product is 550F to 593F. Thats the 'dry' boiling point. The real difference is the 'wet' boiling point (after the fluid absorbs moisture....it just does that) when the boiling points become 284F for the Ford product and 420F for the Motul 600 product. If you plan to flush your brake fluid often anyway, then the less expensive Ford product is the way to go. If not, the maybe the Motul 600 makes sense.

http://www.bobbyarchermotorsports.com/pdf_2848_3.pdf

 

you make a good point about the minimum WET boiling point. i think it would give a lot more peace of mind knowing that the wet boiling point is not that much lower than the dry.

i mean, it's not like i enjoy changing the brake fluid often, lol. if i can leave it in longer without worry that might be worth the extra cost...

as for that GS610 fluid, that sounds like some serious stuff, but jeez it's expensive lol.


ok, another thing i am wondering about is mad patching front to rear
i have heard some say to use the same pad front and rear, while others say to use a less aggressive pad in the rear that will heat up faster.
any opinions on this?

 

A few other brands to look into (2 of which were already mentioned): KVR, Carbotech, Porterfield.

On Mazdamotorsport's page they also have the following item: 0000-03-7109-CB "COOL CARBON BRAKE PADS" I'm not sure what the deal is with those.

As for the Ford Spec Dot 3 fluid, I suppose it really comes down to if you're planning on going to the track at least a couple times a year. If not then it's probably not for you. As I said before it's readily available, meaning it's anywhere you'd buy brake fluid. eg. Crappy tire.

 

yeah, Carbotech and Porterfield seem to make really good track pads. i haven't heard anything about their street applications though, that's why i am kind of leaning towards the EBC pads.
the Carbotech pads are actually more expensive than both Hawk or EBC and they are only producing one street pad at the moment.
I am really interested in the Porterfield R4-S, seems to be somewhere between the HPS and HP+ in terms of performance. However i have heard they do take a bit of warming up and are a little noisy and dusty also...

not quite sure about the pads on the MMS website, kind of a wierd description, lol

yeah, i'll be lucky if i get out to the track once this year, so i don't know if changing the brake fluid often is the right thing for me.

that kind of influences my pad choice also, since i don't really want to get pads just for the track if i am only going once...i'm leaning more towards the EBC Red now since they can apparently handle light track duty. they have a lower friction coefficient than the Hawk pads, but dust less and have a higher max temp rating.

 

Hey coldfire, if you're just on the track once a summer, I'd probably stay with the Ford DOT3.
Bleed the fronts a little after the event, and you're good for the rest of the year. If you're tracking 4-5 times a summer the Motul might be worth the extra $$ 'cause you may not have to bleed them after each event.

Looked briefly into Carbotech pads once and as I recall they were about twice the price of HP+'s.

 

ok, so it's really only an issue with repeated track abuse?
well that's good to know, i think i will just pick some of that up at CT.

yeah, the Carbotechs are expensive.

it looks like i will be going with EBC Red pads up front, Green in the rear.

i'm thinking of doing some distance and fade testing and see how this works out...

thanks for the comments guys

- Aaron

 

i found a really good article on brake fluid:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakefluid1a.htm

i just got a question: how do you fill the system up when it's completely empty of brake fluid?
is there are certain pattern you have to follow like you do when bleeding the brakes?
how many times should i bleed the system on this initial fill up?

thanks
- Aaron

 

I'm using EBC Green and am totally satisfied. I ordered through driverfx.ca, but somehow messed up their system and got a killer price (was through one of their US affiliates). They subsequently fixed that "hole"

 

yeah, i went with the EBC Green up front and Hawk HPS in the rear. should be really good for the street and autocross.

 

Coldfire
I understand you star bleeding from the farthest, and work towrd the nearest to the Master. i.e. RR, LR,RF the LF (kinda makes sense as tour not pushing any air further down line).
4 or 5 'pumps at each caliper or until your not getting any air bubbles.
Make sure the master cylinder doesn't empty or you'll start pushing air into the system, so make sure you keep topping it up.

Also make sur you close the bleeder before the guy pumping the brake pedal lets the pedal back up. He'll then have to pump the pedal a couple of times to get the pedal hard again, the one stroke to the floor as you open (then close) the bleeder.

 

yup, that's the order that is given in the FSM. just making sure there is nothing special to be done when the system is completely empty

well, back to the topic of brake pads: are the backing plates on the pads very important?
i don't have any for one of the front calipers.
also, i sometimes see this "goo" applied on the back of the pads, what the hell is that?

 

I'm also having to replace pads all around. Called the local parts store and Crappy Tire doesn't even have pads for a 4 bolt rx7. Called another big chain part store and I got the "Uh, they're 45 bucks for fronts, but I don't know what they're made of, but they're the lowest brand".

So basically, for something potentially worse than OEM they want 45 bucks for fronts.

Any recommendations for something better than stock, but will still work good in all weather? I don't take the GX to the track, but I do feel the need to make the occasional rice-boy cry...

 

just get the HPS's i use them all year round and there fine. the dust isnt really that bad. mopac on 16th has the best prices and there usually in stock.

 

my EBC Greens have been working great for me. i think they are a really good street pad, although they do work best when you have warmed them up a bit (just a few hard stops).
very low dust and noise are another plus.
only downside is they are a little pricey...

 

Alright, thanks for the advice guys. Low dust and more importantly, low noise is what I'm looking for. There's nothing like coming to an intersection sounding like a semi... lol.

 

from what i have i have read, and seen on a few peoples cars, the Hawk pads are a little noisy and dusty (for a street pad). the performance and price seem to be good though.