eoph

what's the point of fixing a car only to having to fix it again when it sees adam some time down the road? while the shop gains profit what do the people that fix the cars get other than frustration? i've been to rx7 specialties, then i have been offered help by many people. i don't feel blacklisted. it was adam's employee that started the thread. posting here is like posting in any other thread, unless going in the forums is considered a waste of time. if everything on the forum gets only positive posts then how are the people that browse suppose to come to a conclusion on anything if two things contradict, but yet no one criticizes it.

Chris Ng

personally, I think Shaun is still pissed off at me for smacking annie's shifter with a shoe and hacking up the front end..

Tell ya what.. you let go of that grudge and I'll drop mine with adam

ShaunO

Chris,

First, if you took my comments for hostility, I apologize to all three of you. It was meant to be tongue in cheek. That being said, you are heavy-handed like nobody I know, Chris. And, why? The lack of sex theory is my best guess.

The car runs fine, by the way. Thanks for asking. Starts well, runs well, the electrical gremlins have been exorcised with a new alarm. Max is of the opinion that my ignition map (provided by a vendor in the US) is wa-a-ay advanced, but he's giving it a going over. He and I are still a little at odds over this, but he knows tons more about this than I do.

You didn't strike a nerve with regard to being selective about who you assist with problems. Again, that's your perogative. Still, it reeks of kindergarten. Can I be your friend if I'm not friends with Adam? Please?

Chris, I'll give to credit at least for having the sack to stand in front of Adam and tell him to his face that you're not happy with his work. That takes some character. Sitting behind a computer and trashing him does not.


Shaun
P.S. You whacked her shifter with a shoe? Please tell me you don't smoke in her too.

eoph

and how about sitting behind a computer praising adam?

soloracer951

ShaunO: Again thanks for the "lack of character" comment. Here, I'll try an Adam line on you. Phone me if you have a problem with me.

rx7_turbo2

Actually Shaun, I think the opposite is currently true. I think to much sex is getting to me. And for a guy who's used to getting no sex that may have thrown me off my game. I know you well enough to know your comments were ment as a joke

I can't let some stuff go though. The motor we took out of Chris' car was one you had commisioned. Has Chris talked to you about what was found? I don't understand how you could stand up for someone who would build a motor like that for you? I freaked right the **** out and it WASNT my engine, but you remained cool as a cucumber. I have limited funds I guess so maybe it just seems like a bigger issue to me. Not saying that if you have big $$$ getting reamed in the *** hurts less. I've just seen to much negative stuff come out of that shop I guess. Glad to hear your happy with the way your car runs, not sure why, can't remember what you've said to me in person that would lead me to believe the opposite was true. Plus I don't like this whole new attitude and "boy's" club atmosphere the forum has adapted. Critisize an RX-Tuner revenue stream and fear the wrath from above.

Listen we have different opinions about the work Adam and his shop does, and his character. I should be free to voice mine regardless of how many times I rehash ****. Just as you are free to rehash the same praise for him over and over again. Much like the court order that keeps me out of junior high parking lots, you an I will have to avoid Adam as a topic in person at all cost

soloracer951

Just for your information I have not been sanctioned. In my PM to Ryan I promised to lay off if that is what he wishes. I'm abiding by my promise until I hear from him. It's called having "character" and "integrity". I will not resort to insulting you in the same fashion as you have done me.

As for the Calgary Mechanics thread it was moved by the moderators. At whose request is your guess. It was up for a good week. I'm surprised you didn't see it yourself.

Glad to see your car is running well. Hopefully you'll be able to get her out for some summer cruises next year.

Chris Ng

If I can be given a moment to explain the whole "not fixing other peoples cars" thing a little more clearly.. While I must admit, in the way that it initally came out in the posts, it may have been regarded as being perhaps hostile.. but give me a second to try and explain it..

This is my hobby.. I enjoy working on these cars... not for profit, or gain.. I also have enjoyed helping people in the past with issues that they have had.. however, these are people who truly want to learn more about their cars, people who have the same sort of passion for them.. I'm sure all the people who I have helped in the past can atest to the fact that I have always encouraged them to do the work on their own.. instructed them on what to do, rather than doing it it for them.. that's the best way to learn after all.. and in turn, they become less afraid to work on the car themselves, learn more about how things work, do a bit more research for themselves, and learn to tackle more projects on their own.. These are people who you usually help a few times, then no longer have to help because they are now doing and learning things on their own.. that's a great thing..

Now, there are the other people. the people who are less inclined to want to learn abotu their cars.. either they do not have the time/motivation/inclanation to work on their own vehicle.. They just want their car to run, but don't really want to learn how to keep it that way themselves... If they have the time and money to bring it into a shop, they will.. however, if they are having a problem that they cant' seem to fix, they don't want to spend the money to bring it into the shop, or the shop can't see them on their timeframe, they turn around and ask for help.. but in my opinion, they are jsut asking for free labour.. I'm not a shop.. I don't charge for what I do, I'm not going to fix the car for you because the shop can't... I'm not sure if I worded that correctly, but hopefully the point is made...

It's not about "If you take your car to adam, I'm not going to help you" as it may have been made to be in these threads.. the problem is, we have been in situations where we have been asked for help from someone who has brought their car into the shop and it has not run properly when they got it back.. we find out that the issue with the car is due to silly mistakes performed by the shop, or even silly advice given to the owners.. this has happened enough times, coupled with what we have seen in our own motors from this shop that we develop a bad taste for the shop... now, if we help out the particular owner of the car, we feel good about it.. however, the next time there is a problem and the owner decides to bring it back to the same shop that they had trouble with to begin with, should we be inclined to help the same owner out when they ask for help because the car still doesnt' run properly again? .. at this point I don't belive so.. It would feel to me that our help is jsut being taken advantage of...

With that being said, It's not about "us vs them" .. people have to remember, we are just hobbiest, we are not a shop or business.... If you are willing and wanting to put the time and effort to learn about your car, and show motivation to do it on your own, then by all means, I'm here to help...

Now is that so kindergarden Shaun? .. Let's put it this way, let's say I went and got work done by guyon.. they messed up my car, and so I was pissed and called them incompetent and asked you for some help.. so you helped me out... I appreciated the help, but the next tiem I had a problem, I took the car back to guyon.. they messed up again and so I came to you for help again.. would you be jsut as inclined to help me out?

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

MY original Post was to Find some calm water between Adam's and Max's performance opinions. Where i could Feel that I'm actually part of the RX7 community when we all go to car meets (which i'm hoping to see more of). Which correct me if i'm wrong is kinda the point of all car enthusiest.
Instead I find a very childish fights between RX7 specialties (including all company relations world wide and supporters of the shop) and Chris, Soloracer, RX7_turbo2 and Eoph. Who intend to ram Adam so far into the ground that everyone Affiliated will feel the effects. Doesn't really fit the catigory of a "car Enthusiest" explained above.
I'm sorry for Everyone accidently pulled into the fight. I'm also sorry for those of us who truly just wish to just exchange, learn and apply idea's and opinions for our 7's. Here we are in the middle of a war, stuck in the middle with nothing but good intentions.
I think this thread has become nothing but harsh word for each other, as noted by Roshambo.
if u were to install a V8 I'd still help if u needed it.

rx7_turbo2

Well said.

I will add the following:

Every so often a thread is started asking people for their opinion of Adam and RX-7 Specialties. On enough occassions now indivuduals on this forum post gleaming reviews of the work done at that shop. These same individuals at meets and through P.M's are asking for help with problems RX-7 Specialties has either not been able to fix or blatanly caused. That drives me ******* nuts. It's misleading, to the person who asked for the opinion in the first place. It doesnt take long before you get so sick and tired of it that you don't want to help anyone any more. What it's lead to is that since these people seem reluctant to speak up, I do instead. Often in misguided anger and frustration.

soloracer951

Good example Chris. The way that ShaunO feels/felt about Guyon is how I feel about RX7 Specialties. Now if I were a complete stranger and told everyone how terrible a job Guyon did installing a Haltech for me (knowing full well that ShaunO feels he got ripped off by them) and begged for ShaunO to help me fix what they messed up and he agreed to it only to have me shortly thereafter start praising the work that Guyon has done for me and how fair they are to everyone. How do you think ShaunO would feel about me? Well ShaunO? How would you feel about me then? Would you feel sick to your stomach? Maybe even a little pissed off?

eoph

y would not feel part of the rx7 community going to meets? you been to the last one, was there some huge debate about rx7 specialties or were we just all happy checking out each others cars? adam doesn't even go to meets and yet your original posts makes it sound like he done a lot for all of us? that sounds more like praising to me, as that is false, for many of us at least. what do you suggest the community do that will make it all that much better? stop posting our experiences?

Felgar

The only thing I'd like to point here is that just because someone is less inclined to do their own work on their cars does not necessarily mean that they care any less about them. I prefer to do my own work just because I know that I can trust myself not to at least cause more damage than when I started, and eventually I know I'll get it right. I'm not an expert but I can get by and do take pride in being able to do it myself. But there are probably some people who just don't have the ability to do that type of work and/or just simply lack the confidence to try themselves. It doesn't mean they care less about their car; I would probably be too afraid to start taking apart an F50 if I owned one, for instance - so the same thing could hold on a smaller scale to any car really.

And finally there are also guys in my position that a) really love these cars, b) are generally vehicle-enthusiasts, BUT c) have come to a point in their lives that there just isn't much time to spend tweaking a vehicle. It doesn't mean we care for our cars less or enjoy driving them any less, but just that we have no extra time to spare at the moment.

Now I can appreciate that you are inclined to spend more time with someone who does have plenty of time to play on their own - you can watch them grow and share in their enthusiasm, and I can understand that. Just keep in mind that things aren't always as they appear, and the amount of time that someone can spend on a car is not the sole indicator of how much they care for it.

soloracer951

But you probably try to talk him out of doing it though right? If anyone posted a thread like what Roshambo suggested they would have to be very naive to believe that there wouldn't be a storm brewing up shortly afterwards. Most would believe a post like that is baiting people and trying to stir up bad feelings. Since you are an employee of the business in question I find it hard to believe that any exchange of ideas would be for any other reason than to benefit your business. Nothing has been added on the forum in the past by the business you work for other than to promote their products. Why should anyone believe otherwise today? Name for us one thing that they have contributed. Name for us one voluntary event or promotion that they have sponsered locally to thank the local rotary enthusiast? I can't think of any. All we get are excuses for why it's never been done. I plan on hosting a bunch more track events and you can be sure that I'll be encouraging RX7 guys to show up and have some fun with me. Even Adam would be invited if he so wished to appear.

As for Adams and Max's performance opinions where in here do you see anything that Max has posted that requires finding calm water? All the negativity towards the business where you work has been directed there from former customers who have had a less than favorable experience there and to the best knowledge Max is not one of those guys. The only time he has responded is when someone drags his name into it.

And as for why I don't contact Adam by phone or in person my question is what would that really resolve? Is he going to reimburse me the money I paid for the work that was done incorrectly? Nope. Am I suddenly going to fall in love with his workmanship and start going back to him? Nope. So what is to be accomplished by having two angry men staring each other down? I get the "you are too scared to see him" comments all the time and I'm just wondering what you think I must be scared of? Him poking me in the nose? I don't think so. Scared has nothing to do with it. I could talk to him directly but then none of you would see what was being discussed. I'm willing to lay it all out for everyone to see. Call a spade a spade as it is. In a legal dispute they don't just lock up the two parties and let them duke it out. They have a jury of peers review the evidence and make up their minds for themselves. The public demands it be this way so that everyone can learn from the experience.

eoph

but if a person so inclined to use their own time to work on someone else's car just because they dont' have the time to work on it themselves? i think anyone is at least capable of learning the knowledge. i also don't see it as scary when there is someone that will guide you and help you fix things up if you do things wrong. being alone is a different story, which i think most of us felt in some situation before.

Chris Ng

I'll let you in on a little secret.. why the grudge against adam? at least for me? a big part of it has to do with the fact that after showing him evidence of things that have gone wrong with our own personal motors, or service we had recieved, never once, have I ever heard adam appologize for what had happened or owned up to it.. I realize that some of these issues we had mentioned are a few years old now, I never expected any sort of compensation of any sort.. yes it's all in the past.. nothign can be done about it now.. however, a nice "I'm sorry that happened" would have gone a long way.. instead, all i ever saw was adam putting the blame on his past employee mistakes, or skirt the issue completely...
I have admitted several times on the fourm when I've made mistakes, I have appologized to several people in the past.. even to adam.. is it so hard for him to admit that he is not right all the time? It just makes someone want to prove him wrong even more.. .and so the bickering gets worse...

Belive it or not, I'm not here to try and run adam into the ground.. I will admit the whole local athmosphere would be better off if every could coexsist together.. we don't have to like him, he doesnt' have to like us, but it doesn't have to be a war.. I'm sure people have asked him his opinions on us, jsut as people have asked our opinions on him.. and I'm sure both our answers would be along the same lines.. but again, it's a matter of diffrences.. we are entitiled to opinions.. perhaps it can be expressed with a little less hostility on both sides..

Your boss continually talks down to us saying we are cowards, spineless, won't stand up for ourselves.. and yet, I have yet to see him ever stand up and own up to the fact that any work that comes out of his shop troubled is still HIS responsibility, since the work came out of HIS shop.. it's not the fault of the inexperienced guy he hired, or some other fabricated excuse.. I just want to hear an appology...

Chris Ng

Hey.. I just realized that all this posting has finally pushed me over the 1000 post mark.. woohoo! after 4 years, I finally passed 1000...

soloracer951

Pretty much the same thing here. Not once did he say he was sorry for the hatchet job done on my car. Not once did say that if given the opportunity he would make it right. All I got was denials, accusations and insults upon my character. It's all pretty much a moot point at this time anyway because I sold my T2 - at a signifigant loss to boot. Now if he suddenly feels the urge to compensate me or the new owner let him post it here. I'm not much into secret hush-hush deals. If the solution is an honorable one why shouldn't everyone know about it?

soloracer951

Post *****! Well on the bright side I guess it's good you finally passed something.

RX7specialties

This is about the questionable motives as to why you feel a NEED to run down in lengthy detail and exaggerations. Using words like "every engine" or "always" or "never" is the giveaway for a motive. So then...WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE for the generalizations and grudge holding? Especially when you have yet to prove how you KNOW what we currently do or how many customers we really please.

Eric once and maybe still worked for a trucking company...and obviously a sucessfull trucking company. If Eric messed up a shipment and either was or wasn't his fault and the customer swore they had lost his business...and then he made another error that the owner of the trucking company didn't catch...and then tried to rectify another problem he caused...yet in Erics mind he'd done everything to save the working relationship. Does this mean that one or all of these customers are right or even in the right by lableing the company by telling others that the services are hopeless and that the trucking company is incapable of delivering good service. Does that mean that Eric does not have knowledge or skills to be in that business. Should Erics boss consider Erics poor workmanship the basis of whether the company should continue to offer services.
And should that angry customer assume that scince Eric did not satisfy him that he is incapable of satisfying someone in the future? From what you are suggesting, if you have a grudge...hold on to it and don't ever trust that company from performing any type of service (related or unrelated) to the origional problem! Does this mean that after a good look at quality controll and accelleration in the industry that Eric can never improve to be better than yesterday. And does this mean the angry customer has the place to say that the trucking company is not a viable business for the rest of the businesses life...no matter how many other satisfied customers they have?

The point is....is the motive to fix the grudge and make you all feel better? Are the assumptions based on your own perceptions of how stuck you all are in your work place...no growth potential to be better? Or is the motive to act like angry children?
If none of the above apply and you are simply saying "I dont trust them after what I went through" then why cant you simply say that? Your meathods are not constructive and are misleading and lableing. Especially when the enquiry might be as it just was "does anyone know of any local shops who deal with RX's"? We have never seen any of you ask."well from my experiences..it depends on what type of work you want"! You might be then just by replying "I dont think they can perform a good clutch as mine failed and I didnt like the worknmanship"...RATHER...your reaction is "look at these pictures of this engine"...this is the advice I got"..."this is what I heard"...or "as far as I am concerned they are a business with no skills or no worthy services...a rip off and waste of money". In the mean time the customer wanted to get a repair done that no-one has any complaints about. Or the enquirer wanted to purchase a rebuild kit or a flywheel.

So what is the motive to make damn sure that they get the immediate impression that we cannot do anything or sell them anything without having problems?

It just like "sharks in the water"You need to make a bold hateful comment to put an instant stop to any type of service. As Shawn said...it reeks of childish and attacking behavior and gets no-one anywhere. I didnt see anyone respond to my comments of obvious agressiveness and non constructive actions! Would any of you stand up for Eric if you worked beside him in his work place...or your own...or would you sit there and say "yeah, I guess that customer is right...this company really cant and shouldnt operate if you have some unhappy customers.People should just spread roumors about how incompitent we are because they are right.

I would assume that most of you stay working where you do because you know that the hundreds of satisfied customers makes you realize that you are doing something right and you have enough confidence to satisfy hundreds more...reguardless of the fact that you cant please everyone!

Look in the mirror before you chose your motive...or see if you can figure out if you have a constructive motive at all that makes any sort of productive sense!

Sincerely, Adam Heyman

ShaunO

Did I praise Adam?

ShaunO

Erik,

Thank you for bringing up that "other operation". Please go through my post history and see if you can find post after post after post of me slagging that company in this public forum. In fact, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a post where I've mentioned them by name.

This is my point. I don't expect you or Chris to drop your hate on for Adam, but I'd like you to recognize that your portraying yourselves in a very negative light. Don't bring us the same old problem post after post. How about offering some solutions?


Shaun

BOOSTD 7

Here's what I think - I just cannot buy that you guys are so eager to take every opportunity to cut Adam down for the petty resons you mention. Stuff like "what has he contributed to the website", WTF? Do you also hate every other shop (most of which in the world) who do not contribute to the site? Things like "he never appologized to me", PLEASE!

What I believe about this situation and human nature is that NOBODY would be as persistent as you guys have been, literally for years now, without some sort of personal reason to gain. The typical reason is financial.

And while I appreciate you all trying to 'explain' to me, the fact is, you have not earned the right to bash Adam as openly, relentlessly, and downright maliciously as you have. Adam IS the man, like it or not. And until you prove yourselves, you need to show him some more respect. Respect can be as simple as not bashing the **** out of his work every time it's mentioned.

You guys and others like you hurt the forum much more than you realize. I know for a fact Adam himself would be a much more willing contributor to the site if he didn't have to worry about you guys teaming up on him. And how can he possibly defend himself when he runs a REAL business, and only has a few free minutes a day? I see it every day, SO MANY reputable vendors who have a lot to offer the forum tell me they don't want anything to do with this place. It's sad, but I understand why ... because all the people who want to be the man think the best way to get notariety for themselves is to take shots at whoever really IS the man.

Chris Ng

Shaun - since there are 2 sides involved in this, why does it seem like you are putting the onus on us to offer a solution? should it not be on them as well?

I'm not going to bother briging up proof of past posts, since it seems it's the only thing these guys like to slag me about.. but I would like to remind anyone who can use the post function, that there has been no times when I have ever openly slagged the company in any thread without provocation.. and I belive that goes for the rest of us.. People have come on, started a thread asking our opinions.. we give our opinions, which usually start off being very simple.. such as "do a search", "I feel they do a poor job", "I wouldn't go there" ... The lid doesn't blow off the thread until someone comes along and starts to slag us for expressing those negative opinions.. at which point we end up explainining in detail why we dislike the company..... Do not paint the picture that we are out on a witchhunt for adam.. that may be how he has portrayed it..

eoph

i was referring to those that did. y don't you go after them and say they don't have character for saying adam does gd work?