Shadao

exactly so the problem isnt with the vehicle when it comes to collisions, its the driver...

even vehicle safety is quite amazing with the vehicels that are being imported...

of those 80 vehicles invovled in collisions from 2000-2004, 3 of them showed signs of mechanical failure at the scene, and 2 of those 3, had mechanical failure prior to the collision... i would love to see the same kind of stats with domestic vehicles of the same age, cause remember these vehicles are 15yrs or older. so from 2000-2004 there were an estimated 42,000 imported vehicles, and only 3 of them had mechanical failure which resulted in an collision. if you ask me i think these vehicles are safer... why?

they are safer becuase they have low kms,they have a great maintainence history, its very very rare to find one that has been in an accident, you are paying more attention to the road and the vehicle because it is RHD,,, but also because you wouldnt have bought it unless you truly love the vehicle and if you truly love it then you will baby it. and on the off chance that someone does buy one and they dont love it they will get rid of it because it is an 15yr old vehicle so it will need more TLC and things will wear out so new parts and parts for 15yr old vehicles arent cheap especially if you have to special order it from japan or the UK. then that vehicle ends up for sale and they go off and buy something else...

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I remember one instance where a kid in a RHD Nissan crashed his car. The Cause of the crash was ball joint failure. Cause of the ball-joint failure was driving on broken suspension. Cause of driving on the broken suspension was a combination of our poor condition roads, lack of a safety inspection, and of course, lack of driver common sense.


All of this could have been avoided with proper attention. However, the kid could barely afford the car as it was.


I will say, there is alot of beautiful trucks that come over. But It only takes one car to ruin it for the other 1000 that come in.

But think of it like a snowmobile in a sand storm. Your bringing over a car that was not designed for this enviornment, except for the All-terrain vehicles. The car needs to be inspected and deny'd access to the highway if it simply doesnt meet our standards. And that goes for all vehicles.

Shadao

so you are saying that an jdm FD is less safe than an usdm FD? and the same goes for all the other vehicles that have usdm equivalents...

and because of that kids lack of caring for his ride by keeping it in good condition that makes all the imported vehicles unsafe? you are trying to make it look like they are all death traps,"1 bad apple ruins the whole barrel" but its not the vehicle thats responsible its the owner, dont try to paint a broad picture by using one example, lets see facts and figures that back up your opinion, all the numbers and facts and figures i have posted have come from Transport Canada's own website. The numbers speak for themselves, and what they say is vehicles that have been imported from other countries that are 15yrs or older are in much much much better condition than domestic vehicles of the same age/era, they have had more regular maintenance, they have lower kms, and ya they are cheaper to buy but parts are just as costly for other vehicles and they are older vehicles so they will need to be taken care of.

one of hte problems is that people are comparing these vehicles to brand new vehicles, and brand new vehicles will almost always win.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

how aren't they designed for this environment?

our roads aren't drastically different than the worst that can be found in japan.

Maybe alberta looks like a combat zone but ontario (around here anyways?) sure doesn't.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Point I was trying to make was the car was designed and born in a Right Hand Drive enviornment. Not a Left hand drive enviornment. You bring it here, essentially the basic functionality of the car is backwards. The car could have 1000 KMs on it. Doesnt mean its safe for our roads. The government outlined basic requirements to convert the car. They are very easy yet 90% of the people out there toss the checklist in the trash and get their mechanic buddie's shop to pass the car.

Some basic safety issue while driving:

The turning left at a crowded light. I dont have a 5 foot neck, and Im sure you dont either. (I hope ) Of course you can wait until all the other cars turn.

After that is over come, you have the passing on the single lane highway. After paitience pays off, and you pass safely, theres still the other common things that are over looked.

You headlights completely blind other drivers, especially with your expensive HID conversion.

Your wheel alignment is catered to keep your car straight on the left side of the road, not the right.

You have no rear marker lights, and in some cases, front marker lights.

Most of the saferty issue's with imports have been/are being adressed more seriously now. They just need to clamp down on the ones who bypass the system and put us all in danger.

And a JDM car will never be as safe as a USDM car of the same model on our roads because the USDM was designed and crash tested for our enviornment. Same with USDM's not being safe in Japan compared to JDM's.


---------

Alberta is getting better now that they are paving the freeway for the first time in, what, 25 years? You accually have coffee left in your cup after your travel.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I just wanted to point out that I give The Skyline Shop in B.C. Props for their cars. They do everything on the check list to pass their cars, seeing as BC is tough to pass.

A friend of mine just got back with his car and its fabulous. Looks kind of dumb with the refectors and marker lights on it, but I feel much better now knowing theirs cars like that on the road.


They even went as far as to change all the Glass and tires to DOT approved where possible. It was F**ing expensive, but worth it.

Manntis

'blinding' other drivers is a symptom of light aiming, not light technology. If anything, properly aimed HIDs are safer and cause less glare than their halogen equivalents due to the sharper cutoffs. The main problem is people importing JDM cars and not swapping the lights for left-hand drive ones, thereby throwing the high pattern to the left, at oncoming traffic, not to the right to illuminate signs.

Shadao

before i break down the points you made id like to point out that postal trucks have RHD only vehicles, they are gov't vehicles, there is no training course for them, same thing with garbage trucks....

so lets get down to breaking down your points

and
sometimes even in LHD vehicles you cant see if its clear and obviously you wont proceed unless you know its safe regardless of what you drive, this is really a non-issue.

since this has become an issue they are now requireing DOT approved lights, they still do not check for alignment. they also havent done anything about the people who have performed JDM front end swaps to there USDM vehicle. and as for HID's someone already pointed out that they only blind people if aimed incorrectly.

WTF are you smokin? wheel alignment is what.... thats a bunch of BS i dunno what person told you this but they smoke crack

again this is something that is now being required when having the OOPI performed, it was missed before, but thats not the car or the car owners fault, its the inspection fascilities fault for not performing a proper inspection. this is easily fixed..

you missed DTRL but you can simply have a module added to your lighting system which fixes that its a 25$ part, same thing with a high mount 3rd brake light its an easy fix by just adding one....

the safety crash tests that imported vehicles went through 15yrs ago were the same standard that we had at the same time, so saying that an JDM rx-7 isnt as safe as a USDM rx-7 doesnt make sense, they went through the same tests, they were built in the same factory, the only things different were driver position and some trim options.

there is no issue there, in japan there are brand new ford gt40's,mustangs, cadi's, vette's, etc etc lhd rhd it doesnt matter. old new as long as it passes there inspection which is a hell of a lot more sctrict than ours, its allowed to be on the road.

TC now accepts AS1 and AS2 glass as a result of our fights so many times new glass is not required, same thing for tires, if you have tires that do not have DOT stamped on them BUT there is an DOT stamped model of the same tire you dont need to get DOT tires because they are all made in the same place...


TSS does do a great job they havent gotten approval of there DOT OEM lights yet but as soon as they do all previous customers get them free, all the cars from TSS will be made compliant and because of that even though they dont have DOT lights yet they get away with it... other importers may or may not do the same thing but it is up to the potential new owner to ask and know.

now i supose you are gonna say "what about the vehicles that have had there bumper support cut to fit an intercooler" which has happend and the car was sent back to japan because it couldnt be made compliant. and what i have to say about that is this" what about all the vehicles that are domestic running around with cut bumper supports to fit a HUGE FMIC" those vehicles dont get inspected and i bet most of them have rust issues too, unlike the JDM's that are coming over...

when you DIRECTLY compare safety features, vehicle condition, and accident rating ratios between 15yr old domestic vehicles and 15yr old imported vehicles the imported vehicles win by a substantial amount in ALL categories.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Point im trying to make here, again, is safety. I can walk into just about any shop, with any import and it will leave passed. It could have 1000 things wrong, but if you know where to go, its safe, you saved thousands and it passed.

THATS the point Im trying to make. I could care less about what mods have to be done. Its if they are doing them that concerns me. And so far? Theres probably about a 90% failure rate for imports. I bet even your car will fail.

I even seen a TC check stop on the highway the other day specifically targeting Imports (RHD mainly, but some LHD). There had to be 20 cars on the side of the road, waiting their fail tickets.

Im all for the 15 year rule. Im all for buying a JDM FD (if I fit). But Im also for a system that works. Why should I convert my car when I can get it signed for $50 cash? 90% think that also.


Manntis:

Your correct. It's where the lights point, not the accual light itself. I find that 'normal' HID's, like in my old Acura TSX (factory) were less straining on the eyes. Unfourtunately, any light is straining on the eyes when pointed directly at you in the dead of night.

Shadao

well the nissan 180sx is the same thing as a 240sx, just like a soarer is the same as the lexus version.... even the 240's and all the other USDM imports were made in japan, they werent made here.

i like your theory about the roads, it would make sense but its not true. if you let go of the wheel and the car doesnt go straight its an alignment issue, regardless of what vehicle you're in.

and now bumpers have suspension? this is a newone, please show me pics of this bumper suspension

TC having a road side check stop is a good thing, because of lack of awarness many vehicles made it through imporperly inspected so now they have to go through it again, BUT once the vehicle has passed it gets a lil sitcker that prooves its compliant. and they cant fail you on the side of the road unless you have major safety issues, at most they will issue a VI

i dont think you understood the accident ratio. its based on per 100,000 lisenced drivers, so since there are only about 73,000 imported vehicles, i had to guesstimate up a lil, and what i got was 2.2 deaths per 100,000 imports per year vs over 10 deaths per 100,000 licensed drivers per year.

the more you try to argue safety the more i will put facts and figures up to proove that there is no safety issue, if there was such a safety issue then these vehicles would never had been made.

so please if you want to retort my points show me some numbers to back up your claims.

Manntis

It's not a 'newone' at all... he's correct. Some bumpers (e.g. 70's 'till recently) have hydraulic shocks in their mounts. That's what he said. Don't misquote someone just to be smarmy.

And yes, safety standards vary region to region. When RX-7s first came to this continent, they had to have additional structural pieces added to pass Canadian and US rear impact standards. JDM ones are missing this bracing. This is but one example of regional market differences between otherwise like vehicles.

As for postal trucks, etc. certain government vehicles are exempt from the consumer product laws governing vehicles. Military transport trucks, for example, have tires that are fine for military vehicles, but are illegal for use on civilian pattern ones and bumper height regulations go out the window - because the function and use of the vehicle, and it's limited availability (if at all) to consumer-market drivers supercedes the normal regulations.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I'd like to point something out today, relavent or not.

I got a call today from a good friend of mine. The subject was insurance coverage.

His Skyline was cancelled on the grounds that there is no way they can fix the car. In the event of an accident, the car would be a complete write off. Pretty standard reason.

After debate, he convinced them to put some coverage on it if he produced an out of province inspection sheet. Upon producing said document, they refused to insure the car because the Alberta official OOP inspection report, wasnt completly filled out.

After he finally got the inspection done, he found $300 in work that needed to be done. Not too bad. After he returned to the insurance company, they refused to insure his car, this time on the grounds that it was too much of a safety risk.

ONE other insurance company would not insure it either. He eventually found one that would and now all is as should be.

Not sure the cause of this, but perhaps we will find out someday.


----------------------

Now, onto my point again.

I have no arguement about accidents. Give it a couple years with the kids driving today and imports might catch up. However, You picked my points apart, so I picked yours. I could care less about how someone drives and crashes their cars, so long as they dont involve others. In fact, I can think of a guy who's written off 3 imports from just being dumb. Hes a real model for us all (sarcasm). What I care about is them being fair to the system. A system that works, if you jump through the hoops.

For every person that puts their car on the road without following all the simple, basic regulations of the simple, Transport Canada madates, its a black point against us import owners/lovers.

We shouldn't be fighting for keeping the 15 year rule. We should be fighting to revise it to be better. Get a government shop to inspect the car instead of Joe Mechanic from his garage. Make sure they check off every box ONLY after the car accually has had the conversions/work performed.

The arguement with TC should be: We'll do this if you do that.

The arguement with TC right now: Dont do that.

You cant get something for nothing. But I guess only time can tell.

23Racer

First, I want to stay out of this discussion about relative merits of JDM or Euro or even Australian cars versus NA cars. I have beliefs and I will keep them to myself as they are not facts and not backed by facts.

What I wanted to bring to this discussion is the fact that JDM and British and Australian lighting systems are actually aimed in a mirror image of NA systems. This has nothing to do with the actual adjustment of the light pods, it has to do with the light focusing through the lense of the headlight. All the NA lights are designed to focus the beams at a certain length. The focal point is closer and down to the right of the car for Low Beams and further up and still to the right for high beams. The arc swing of low beam to high beam is determined by the OE Lighting Engineers based on the side of the road you drive on. If you use JDM or British pods the swing (even if initially adjusted correctly for NA Low Beams) will arc the high beams about 20 feet off the road to the right when the Highs are activated.

This might not matter to you if you only drive in the city, but if you live in a combo Rural/Urban setting then it does matter.

This is also why a number of the cheaper JDM Light kits are not legal in NA. High Beam to Low Beam light arc off and focal points off for driving on the right side of the road.

I worked for 10 years in OE component design/development and contrary to many peoples belief there are a number of different design protocols depending on the target home market for the car. I remember an alternator bracket design situation where it passed all of the NVH concerns for NA, Euro and Asian markets, it failed the TUV Crash test. It did pass the NA and Asian tests.

Just FYI.

Eric

Shadao

the only shops that are allowed to peform an OOPI are gov't designated inspection fascilities.....

we already know about the light bias which is why TC is now requiring DOT approved lights.

there is no possible way for the accident ratio rate to catch up, its impossbile, and even if you take away the imports from those bad drivers they will still be bad drivers but in something else.

well looks like bumper shocks do exist but i have yet to find them on any vehicle someone wanna show me this.... cause wow

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Maybe when I take the plastic bumper cover off on my Jeep to install my winch mount I'll snap a couple pics of the bumper shock and styrafome rebar.


And yes, your right about government facilities. However, if you are a licensed mechanic, with a liscenced shop, you can apply to become an OOP inspection facility. Its relatively painless process.

At least thats how it works in Alberta.

And never say never. The accident ratio CAN catch up, on an equal number ratio to domestic cars. Your looking at a ratio/average that has been established 100 years ago for domestic cars. Import craze has only been about the last 5 years or so, since thats when all the good model cars started coming out, after the economic recess of the early 80's. Most import crashes have been cars. Most domestic crashes are SUV's, Light Trucks and other rediculously large vehicles.

Shadao

if the import accident ratio increases then there should be a decrease in domestic accident ratios but there isnt any

Manntis

You mean DOT compliant, not DOT approved. And Canada allows either DOT or ECE compliant. Japan's lights are ECE compliant so could pass a light (looking @ lens markings only, not checking aim or pattern) inspection.

Shadao

canada only accept ECE1 lights and while Japan's lights maybe ECE compliant, they do not have ECE markings, they have JIS markings. however because some
Japanese cars were offered brand new in the UK they came with ECE marked lights. such as the R34 skyline it was offered brand new in europe so there are ECE coded lights, i do think that they wouldnt pass anyways because of the light bias... even though there is no problem with the lights in the UK

ehos

Are you saying a RHD car is just as safe to drive as a LHD car in a LHD environment (like Canada) in each and every situation possible?

Just want to be 100% clear.

Shadao

if you look at accident ratings in japan and the uk you see no distinction between the vehicle being LHD or RHD, the only stats that i have seen were regarding britans military since they have both LHD(which is the opposite to them) and RHD vehicles. in those stats there was a lower accident ratio with the LHD units than there was with the RHD units.

while some situations in driving an RHD vehicle in Canada may pose some added difficulty its not enough to say they are unsafe as a result, because in some situations it is easier... ideally the driver should be in the middle of the vehicle, like with the Maclaren F1.

alot of people have this misconception that being a couple feet over changes everything with driving a RHD vehicle last time i checked the position of a drivers head from RHD to LHD isnt 5 feet its more like 2.5feet if that, so right there is a misconception, unless you have driven one you dont understand, and once you have you realise of much of a non-issue it is.

TurboMazdaSpeed

ive never had a issue turning left in huge intersections biggest issue about that would have to be waiting a extra minute to turn if you cant see?+ on that point what about land cruisers, hiluxes, and other more high up RHD cars, you can see over cars when turning left so its not a issue, ive only got honked @ once, usually ppl can see me leaning to the other side and see that i cant see anything , anywho i think the biggest downside to rhd is i cant go through drivethroughs any more other then that its way funner then left hand drive cars, i like driving it better then my LHD N/A , and right hand corners are sure fun lots of you guys are making a huge deal out of the very few flaws being on the right side has, have any of you anti - rhd car guys even drove one for more then a week? you cant judge somthing correctly if youve never tryed it, and not trying it just to prove that point but for fun!! because thats all it is + you get tons of attention from other drivers, at the gas station theres bairly been a time where i dont get sombody complimenting me on my car and asking more about it anyways, not looking to stir anything up just given my 2 cents , "you cant be wrong if your on the RIGHT side!"

ehos

How about lane changes? Are you saying lane changes are exactly the same? (Ie going from Right lane to the Left lane).

TurboMazdaSpeed

ever heard of mirrors and shoulder checks? with a huge glass hatch on the FC its pretty easy to see beside/ behind you and if you cant see properly use the passenger side mirror, but you have a point for some rhd cars it is actually rediculously hard to see in the left lane, example i drove a honda beat once and the rear mirror is plastic (its conv.) and so the mirror is all you can rely on , pretty scary, car was a blast to drive though redlines at 12,000 rpm

Manntis

as I said, "so could pass a light (looking @ lens markings only, not checking aim or pattern) inspection."

Alak

iTrader: (9)