Build Threads
Sponsored by:

Shawky's Engine Rebuild - 1986 S4 Turbo - Its the journey that counts

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-01-20, 02:59 AM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Shawky's Engine Rebuild - 1986 S4 Turbo - Its the journey that counts

Hi
I'm very time poor but thought I would contribute by posting the journey I am about to embark with my long time Rx7 that I've owned since 1995.
You can view my initial photos in What a great classic - finally saying Hi
I've spent quite some time absorbing information on this site and others. Spent far too much time with some theory on Turbos that I have posted links to at Turbo Comparison... includes new 2015 turbos. see post on
but I think I managed to validate the calculations and come close to working out what type of Turbo I might install IF I decide to change from stock.
The car is still on the road, just changed it to Classic Car Registration to reduce costs. This limits drives to 60 days per year but that is OK for me.
The engine is not too well, down on compression in the rear rotor (30,30,80psi) so I think I did an apex seal and I do know when/how it happened: Pre ignition or too much advance at low RPM on boost running E10.
Anyway, I'll start by posted where I am at, what gear I have that is of interest and my thoughts for the upgrade.
The alternator has been replaced and fits snuggly in its hidey hole. The fuel pump is now a Bosch 044. The exhaust is 100% stock original (1986) as the sports exhaust is dead (see welcome photos).

I'm tossing up whether I strip my motor down or keep the car running, play with new inlet setups and build another motor from spare kit.

So far, I am keen to put in a water to air intercooler above engine with the short IDA inlet manifold, throttle body and plenum setup. Provides 6 injectors including the two stock primaries and avoids the need to work out an impossible path for an air to air solution. The Series 4 power steering and air conditioning units doesn't seem to allow any space for piping down the sides.

What is done:
The new radiator is in and working great. Cost including Spal fan about $AU 400.

Cutting the Fan shroud from 1.5mm Aluminum Sheet and stand off using 20mm angle bracket, pop rivets and rubber edge trim from Bunnings.

Checking fan clearance and fiddling with mounting

Installed inclusive of ECU controlled Motor Controller. Manually set speed ATM
I threw a photo of the trolley jack I sourced from Victoria for about $300. It lifts to 55cm which is more than I need.
I purchased a 40A motor controller from eBay, modified the circuit to wire in the ECU. At present it cuts in at 87 and out at 85 degrees C, but the thermostat is out ATM. The car use to sit on 83-85 until hot days where temperature would rise to about 95 due mainly to the old radiator and clutch fan that just disengaged at air temperatures over 35 degrees.
So the radiator installation is complete. No air ducting at all and has worked fine so far through 45 degrees heat earlier this year. Highway driving, the fan does not cut in. When it runs it runs for about 30-60 seconds.
The following users liked this post:
solobizarro (05-07-21)
Old 11-03-20, 08:22 AM
  #2  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I checked the video of compression readings from last year and zoomed in to get more accurate readings than posted above. The rear rotor is clearly cactus with 2 chambers down on compression, whilst the front rotor is showing some tiredness. I put the video quickly on YouTube at
Info from the video link if you don't wish to watch it (the video is very basic)
Mazda Rx7 13B Rotary Compression Test using standard gauges - Damaged Seal
This video was taken by my my young son using an iPad to help me assess the possible damage to my 13B.
It is not a professional production so apologies for the lack of glitz, flare, intro, outro, adds or anything else.
The video is far from a best practices guide but rather a very basic illustration of how one can easily get a rough idea of the health of their engine with very few tools.
Recording the compression throughout the life of the vehicle may prove useful in picking up on a problem before significant damage / catastrophic failure occurs.

I used two cheap (the cheapest) compression test gauges with the return valve removed.
The gauges were swapped to confirm reading consistency (not shown in video).
I selected the white gauge for the bad rotor simply for ease of reading on the video.

The video is shown at normal speed then zoomed in at 1/16th speed to catch the peak readings and overall time.

From the peaks on the white gauge the approximate (say 5psi) readings were:
Right - Rear Rotor - 85, 55, 45 psi
From a similar video I used the white gauge for the front rotor as the other gauge is a little difficult to read in the posted video and appears to indicate 80-90 psi on all 3 chambers:
Front Rotor - 75, 75, 70 psi

Adjusting for RPM, I've done the following:
1. The video was slowed by a factor of 16 (1/16th)
2. The video length for 6 compression peaks of the rear rotor was about 26 seconds (1.6 seconds at normal speed).
3. RPM = 60 * Total Peaks * Video Speed Reduction Ratio / Total Time (seconds)
= 60 * 6 * 16 / 26
= 221 RPM.
Ref: 3 peaks = one full rotation of the rotor and 3 rotations of the eccentric shaft. One peak per revolution.

Thanks to the spreadsheet from https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-do-...3/#post3158348
adjusted compression at 250 RPM is as follows:
Left - Front Rotor - 84, 79, 79 psi or 581, 548, 548 kPa
Left - Rear Rotor - 94, 64, 54 psi or 651, 444, 375 kPa

From this the rear rotor most likely has damage to an apex seal as 2 chambers are low and one is OK.
The front rotor has lost a little compression across the board.
Symptons: Hard to start, running rich, unstable boost under heavy load.
Pluses: After taking a few cranks to start, it does idle fine at 1000rpm, cruises fine, still has a little power (3psi boost using stock exhaust) and still fun to drive.

As an aside, the eccentric shaft rotates once (360degrees) to produce one third of a cycle for the 3 chambers, or rather rotates 3 times (1080degrees) to achieve one full revolution of the rotor.
A 4 stroke piston engine's crank shaft rotates twice (720 degrees) for a complete cycle, once for the compression stroke and once for the exhaust stroke.
An individual 13B rotor chamber has a displacement of just under 650cc so a full cycle where all rotor chambers have performed work is thus 650 * 3 * 2 = 3900cc. Yes there are 6 separate chambers, so one might say hey that's 3.9 Litre 6 cylinder!
Yes the engine is commonly rated at 2.6Litres capacity.
At 3.9L the rotary is running at 9000RPM compared to a 4 stroke V6 running at 6000RPM also 3.9L.
But at the same RPM, the rotary only achieves 4 of the 6 compression cycles being 4 x 650cc or 2.6L.
Get the rotary to rev more and it behaves more like a 3.9L engine that a 2.6L.
Old 12-03-20, 05:22 AM
  #3  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I've picked up a set of Power Seals (SCR) from South Coast Rotary, rubbers and gaskets ready for the rebuild. Great value.
SCR suggested I also consider replacing the RTech with something easier to program like a Haltech and Microtech, so I researched them. I came to the conclusion that I will stick to the RTech for now on the basis I can't afford a Haltech Elite 1500 and the Microtech whilst Aussie made, did not appear to give me a big leap up from the RTech and had less inputs/outputs.
I've setup a Windows 10 laptop with the RTech EMS programming software and given the EMS a bit of a tune as it is running very rich. The car went well despite down on compression for a drive down the south coast and back in 40 degree heat. It warmed up a bit coming back up the escarpment from Wollongong a very long and steep climb. Mostly as the original exhaust got very hot (too much unburnt fuel is my guess).

I checked my injectors and determined I currently have 2 x stock 550cc injectors and 2 x 1000cc genuine Delphi injectors (17113744 Bosch EV1 connector). When the car was running well I was maxing out on fuel for both 98 octane and e85.

I've also changed my mind about the inlet manifold changes. I'm moving away from a Turbo dual throttle body IDA setup (2 x 55mm from efihardware) with water to air top mount intercooler, to keeping the S5 manifold and running an air to air. A hell of a lot cheaper, but means I am stuck with the factory injector locations. The clincher will be removing the stock S4 power steering, replacing with electric but that's another set of questions I'll get to after more research.

So, I'm thinking of replacing the fuel rails, moving the Delphi 1000cc injectors to primary position and verifying idle capability (the current 550cc are not working well at idle, but that's another set of questions too that I will get to after some tests and wiring checks).

It would be great if I could get some information/suggestions about the following:
1. Are the S4/S5 injectors also Bosch EV1 connector or what connector would I need to purchase to replace them (they are falling apart)?
2. I can't determine if the Delphi injectors support E85. I thought they did, and I have run E85 through this engine. Does anyone know if they do?
3. I'd really like to change the injector setup and run Siemens 2433cc injectors as secondary injectors, but these are longer (60.44mm). I appear to have about 10cm space under the upper S5 manifold, so I suspect they will fit. Is anyone able to confirm?

Thanks in advance
Old 12-05-20, 02:55 AM
  #4  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Picked up a 2008 Holden Astra power steering pump today for $250, adding to the list of things to do.



Old 12-07-20, 07:12 PM
  #5  
Moderator

iTrader: (3)
 
diabolical1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 10,822
Received 307 Likes on 268 Posts
Originally Posted by Shawky
It would be great if I could get some information/suggestions about the following:
1. Are the S4/S5 injectors also Bosch EV1 connector or what connector would I need to purchase to replace them (they are falling apart)?
2. I can't determine if the Delphi injectors support E85. I thought they did, and I have run E85 through this engine. Does anyone know if they do?
1. S4 = EV1 style and S5 = Denso style.

2. i have no idea. there's an Alternative Fuel Subforum here, my guess is if the answer is on this board, it may be there. otherwise, maybe contact Delphi or a reputable vendor that carries their injectors. that said, have you looked into Injector Dynamics? i don't know how it works in terms of costs and shipping an such to your country, but it might be worth your consideration. i can't say i've heard anything bad about them, but obviously, you should do your part in researching them. assuming they appeal to you, i believe you would have to change your pigtails to EV6s or use an adapter.
Old 12-07-20, 11:45 PM
  #6  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Thanks
I know the Delphi and Siemens injectors are EV1, and from a distance it looks like the rewire of my car has included new injector connectors for primary and secondary. They look the same. Hopefully EV1 on both as my car is an S4. So for now, I'll hold off on buying new connectors.
I have the Injector Dynamics spreadsheet, and have run some numbers through various web interfaces. I know the existing setup (2x550, 2x1000) is maxing out at about 8psi boost with the HT18 turbo.
I'm happy with trying the next stage of 2x1000+2x2433, the Siemens capacity is a little over kill for 450HP but they are top quality injectors. I'll look again at Injector Dynamics.

Next step is selecting the Turbo, I think I posted my Turbo spreadsheet somewhere on this forum. My theoretical target is 450HP. I contacted a referred supplier overnight and he came back with the following recommendations:
GTX3584R for 450Hp on E85
T04Z @ 15psi for 400Hp on pump fuel (98)
SXE366 @ 20psi for 450Hp on pump fuel (98)
My research to date has not extended into the Borg Warner range, so that's the next step.
My calculations suggest a GTX3579 or 84 series would do the job from an air perspective but I'm still a little uncomfortable on the turbine side. Maybe the SXE366 is that little bit bigger. I know a GT45 is too big.
Old 12-18-20, 05:50 AM
  #7  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
It's nearly Christmas so much to do before I have enough components to commence the build in the new year.
I'm trying to keep the car drivable for as long as possible. It's been very hot lately and the car was fine in the 42 degree Celsius heat, so despite apex seal issues, running rich and probably blocked catalytic converters, the new radiator setup is working well.

I've ordered a turbo, intercooler, manifold and wastegate. Photos to follow over Christmas.

I've worked out the power steering hose setup roughly with Pirtek who will match the pipes once I pull the existing hoses off. May have a dry run at placement over the next week.

This week I installed two 80A relays to bypass load on the ignition switch. I measured 2.5Vdc and 2Vdc voltage across the ignition for Power and Ignition circuits, so that needed to be removed. Photos and hand drawn circuit below.

Mazda Rx7 FC Series 4 Ignition (Australia)

Relay connections




Old 12-19-20, 09:51 PM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I'm stuck. Searching hard but had no luck finding an answer to my Holden Astra (Opel) power steering wiring problem.
My unit has a grey, green and white signal wires but I've no idea which does what.
The large red wire is +12V power (battery), the large brown wire is 0V (Battery)

Any ideas on what to do with the grey, green and white control wires?

Thanks
Chris



Serial of 2008 Holden Astra Power Steering unit (photo in previous post)

Electrical connectors
Old 12-21-20, 10:37 AM
  #9  
Senior Member

 
Nosferatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bear Cage
Posts: 429
Received 25 Likes on 23 Posts
Is this a TRW pump also? the earlier astra TRW pump (2006 and before) has black ,blue and light brown wires...the black and blue are combined and wired to switched 12volts, preferably through an on/off switch.The brown I'm not sure since I can't locate that info on that particular pump and we never had those cars in north america...my best guess is it goes to the ecu to signal a load and up the idle.
Old 12-21-20, 11:32 PM
  #10  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Thanks
I believe I've found the info but not wired it up to test. It appears the black wire is used, the white/green are CAN bus so left unconnected.


Holden Astra 2008 Power Steering Pump connections from workshop manual (not verified)
Old 12-23-20, 04:27 PM
  #11  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Turbo selection

Turbo has been selected and is on order: SXE366 ball bearing.
I had quite a bit of fun playing around with the Borg Warner MatchBot web site, which I highly recommend for the video and calculations. It assists in understanding where/what affects power and behaviour of the turbo.
I'm not sure how long this link lasts, but these were my last settings: Shawky's SXE366 Calculations or use the default BorgWarner MatchBot
Screen shots below





Old 01-02-21, 07:00 PM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Power steering mounting worked out. Once done I'll post some photos. I was/is a challenge to squeeze the larger Holden Astra 2008 pump into the space available.

Turbo has arrived, now checking for clearances and manifold adjustments.
I've found tilting the turbo forward (100mm spacer at rear of glange) allows the snail to clear the wheel arch nicely for a clean air flow path to the intercooler.
If I raise the flange 10mm that too helps with intercooler piping clearing existing humps on the chasis but this is unnecessary.
The manifold has a huge double D shaped flange which I'm not keen on, so I'm thinking of welding a clean flange on top and port matching if possible. On holidays this week so will chat with my in laws who have years of steel work experience for options.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Preferred Turbo location

Flange adjustment required

Turbo angle after adjustment, fractionally facing down, previously up considerably

Wastegate touching cross member
Old 01-02-21, 07:19 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Before making the adjustments to the manifold this was the only solution for the snail:

First mount attempt. Snail up too high and would hit the wheel pillar if turned to 10 O'clock.

Old 01-02-21, 07:33 PM
  #14  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
IMO the flange on the manifold also needs work as I'm not keen on the port shape mismatch, nor bolt size, meat around the holes.

Old 05-01-21, 09:34 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Some major prototype/design progress since I last posted. I live in Australia so most of my build info is at AusRotary - Shawky's Build.

The turbo flange change was a major journey, but that is done and I'm super pleased with it. The new flange pushes the Turbo forward slightly, now horizontal not tilted giving better panel clearance and also helped with the downpipe setup. I performed a partial cut on the wastegate pipe, bent it and rewelded it to fix the WG clearance. I may have to do another tweak when the downpipe and WG pipes go in.

I'm happy with the intercooler placing and have welded up 3" aluminium piping on the hot side and 2" piping on the cold size.
On the passenger/cold side I've managed to squeeze everything in so the battery and power electric steering pump all fit.
On the hot side I will have to cut a small piece out of the brake air vent tubing and re form it with some fiberglass matting and resin but that is all.
Finishing up of the intercooler fitment, placement of the BOV will be left to the main build/assembly time once all other components are prototyped (just in case things need to change).

I have done a lot of research on fuel injection and am set on having a setup that I can maintain injection timing at a reasonably high rpm. Something not commonly done. i.e. the target maximum injection duty cycle is 25% at about 5000-6000rpm on pump gas (98 octane.au). I'm keen on the Turblown inlet manifold setup and have selected Injector Dynamics ID1050X primaries and ID2600XDS secondaries (2 for the stock UIM, or 4 for the Turblown manifold - no peripheral porting). If I was going to run E85 exclusively I would select the ID1300XDS for primaries as recommended by Turblown. I'm not sure whether they would provide good enough fuel control on 98 at idle and low speed cruise stability is important to me.

For the exhaust, I was aiming for a 3.5" downpipe into dual 3" to support two cats in parallel for reduced flow restriction. However, after making up cardboard cutouts of mandrel bend pipe sections, I ended up cutting up a piece of 4" water pipe that I had laying around. OD is 112MM and I got it to fit using a 60degree and two 30degree bends.
After discussing options with a few mates the outcome was to run the 4" down pipe, split to dual 3". I'm still trying to convince myself one way or the other in regards to 4" or 3.5". I'm definitely not going to run 3" off the turbo.

Here are a series of photos that might make it clearer. By all means comments, criticism and suggestions will be taken on board with an open mind.


New 1" stainless turbo flange helps clear clears wheel arch

Downpipe dry run to get angles and clearance right. Oil drain solution also shown. 30cm stainless flex AN10.

Power steering pump, 2" intercooler cold side pipe and battery all in and friendly

Intercooler fitment. 3" In/Out Core Size 3" x 11.5" x 23"


Old 06-27-21, 07:39 AM
  #16  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
It's been a while but I have made some progress. Lots of procrastination about the exhaust setup. I have decided on a single 6" catalytic converter (GESI 400CPSI) for best chance at emissions in Australia. It is slightly smaller than what I'd prefer (dual 4.5") but I could not get that setup to fit with smooth air flow.
If you are after more details, see my thread on the Aus forum (login required).
Below are snippets of the design and construction of the custom front cone required for a 6: GESI G-Sport Gen 2 Cat to fit just behind the gearbox at approximately 40 degrees.
The Cone is 4" x 6" x 2" with 0.5" offset so that the core tucks up and the V-Band fits without impacting ground clearance.



Old 09-13-21, 07:47 AM
  #17  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
A quick update. The Turbo downpipe is complete except for O2 sensor location. Here in Sydney I'm in lock down so can't finish the cat converter shown previously.

Rx7 FC ESX366 Turbo downpipe with 50mm wastegate return.

Ground clearance maintained. Prototype 6" GESI cat converter at left
Old 12-29-21, 05:14 PM
  #18  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Happy Christmas and New Year to all.

I've made a little progress over the past few months.
- Turbo manifold and turbo install done, barring EGT temperature probes on the manifold.
- Fake Cat for proving a GESI-G Sport II 6" cat will fit, and for initial tune is built.
- AES 3.5" ID 5" OD Resonator behind the CAT done
- 3" split roughed out, waiting on rear mufflers and control valve from AES
- 3" turbo side intercooler piping done, barring the BOV. Plan is to use a Turbosmart Big Bubba sleeper.
- 2.5" inlet side intercooler piping done, power steering and battery setup all fit.
- Engine coming out today, so I should know what the damage inside is by New Year.

More info available over at Ausrotary though I think you need an account. Shawky's Engine Rebuild AusRotary
A few pics related to the progress. By all means ask a question, give a suggestion or even constructive criticism.

Catalytic Converter Dummy Assembly Final

Downpipe, Cat and Resonator

Downpipe, Cat and Resonator

intercooler mount and space

inlet side intercooler piping just fits

Intercooler inlet and outlet.
Old 12-29-21, 08:41 PM
  #19  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Shawky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seven Hills
Posts: 26
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Good news, after a late start today, and with some help from my son, more so tutoring him on the safe way to remove an engine on a budget and safely, it is out.
This took about 1 - 1.5 hours including filming. I didn't easily find a video or write up with detail on a good approach to brace the gearbox, and lift the engine out.
I had completely forgotten how I did it 19 or so years ago. It worked a treat today, very easy. Mind you the hard work was removing everything from the engine first.

Engine Removal 30 Dec 2021

Once I took some weight off the car body on the block and tackle, the body was high enough to fit a small trolley jack under.
Then I jacked the gearbox up say 1 - 2 inches, winching at the same time to balance the weight until the engine let go of the mounts.
I then put some timber blocks under the gearbox and chocked it so it would not roll once the engine was removed.
Once I removed the last 2 gearbox bolts and engine just slipped off effortlessly.
I then raised the engine out of the way and using two gearbox bolts strapped the gearbox so the jack and blocks could be removed.
I think I used the same gear I used the last time. The old hemp rope is great, it isn't slippery and still in reasonable conditions.

Now the fun and messy part. My son will be helping out for this phase as a learning exercise.
Hopefully he will take a few videos. I wish I had his assistance this past year to video etc all the bits and pieces I worked on. Best I could do were photos.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Glease Man
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
11
06-18-12 11:22 AM
TDYI
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
14
01-12-12 12:18 PM
KingCobraV9
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
16
05-31-11 09:33 PM
TetsuKatana
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
4
10-04-06 03:53 PM
rx7_ragtop
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
27
06-23-03 05:53 PM



Quick Reply: Shawky's Engine Rebuild - 1986 S4 Turbo - Its the journey that counts



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 PM.