my first build thread, i think...
10-15-13, 11:19 AM
#27
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the RX8 transmission workshop manual is about as useful as needles under your fingernails. it's actually what i have been using and it does at least give you the basics, although this transmission is far from basic compared to most others.
it uses a generic blown up picture and numbers for disassembly instructions, does not emphasize to hold the shift forks due to the fact that if they move a hair then the detent *****, springs and cogs all shoot out at supersonic speed to where you will never find them.
and some people say this is a good strong transmission, luckily this one i have to practice on with 2 spares for backups.. the gears are about as hardened as toothpaste in the sink after about 3 days. revising the SSM to not break half a dozen teeth in the tight knit gearset while not breaking itself hasn't exactly been easy.
add in fabricating those SSM's that i will probably only use once and i feel like it's just several days completely wasted from my life. a basic overhaul 'kit'(since it's pieced together, there is no overhaul kits) from mazda is about $1500 for the transmission. if any gear or shaft is damaged, double that figure before even adding in labor.
even rolling the dice on 2 used trannies seems like a better option.
/end rant
it uses a generic blown up picture and numbers for disassembly instructions, does not emphasize to hold the shift forks due to the fact that if they move a hair then the detent *****, springs and cogs all shoot out at supersonic speed to where you will never find them.
and some people say this is a good strong transmission, luckily this one i have to practice on with 2 spares for backups.. the gears are about as hardened as toothpaste in the sink after about 3 days. revising the SSM to not break half a dozen teeth in the tight knit gearset while not breaking itself hasn't exactly been easy.
add in fabricating those SSM's that i will probably only use once and i feel like it's just several days completely wasted from my life. a basic overhaul 'kit'(since it's pieced together, there is no overhaul kits) from mazda is about $1500 for the transmission. if any gear or shaft is damaged, double that figure before even adding in labor.
even rolling the dice on 2 used trannies seems like a better option.
/end rant
i haven't checked the price on a new trans lately, but they used to be cheap new.
10-16-13, 03:51 PM
#28
Thanks for the link, I would like to follow/learn/oogle.
(I was told that S4 TII kegs were the strongest of all the turbo (rx7) kegs? Buddy is one day swapping to his RE, said his S4 keg would be the better choice for me to build a turbo keg, as it is stronger than an S5 keg?)
(I was told that S4 TII kegs were the strongest of all the turbo (rx7) kegs? Buddy is one day swapping to his RE, said his S4 keg would be the better choice for me to build a turbo keg, as it is stronger than an S5 keg?)
10-16-13, 04:09 PM
#29
Thanks for the link, I would like to follow/learn/oogle.
(I was told that S4 TII kegs were the strongest of all the turbo (rx7) kegs? Buddy is one day swapping to his RE, said his S4 keg would be the better choice for me to build a turbo keg, as it is stronger than an S5 keg?)
(I was told that S4 TII kegs were the strongest of all the turbo (rx7) kegs? Buddy is one day swapping to his RE, said his S4 keg would be the better choice for me to build a turbo keg, as it is stronger than an S5 keg?)
the series 5 can be hit or miss on the turbo engines, the majority of USDM series 5 turbo engines have the same casting as series 4 do. later on the series 5 irons got an upgrade to the thick casting found on the C+D code 20B, cosmo RE and FD REW engines, which gives them a reliable power level of 500-600whp.
last i heard, the new turbo irons were all thick castings. but i find that hard to believe, there has to be some old thin casting ones out there still.
for anyone who has a goal of much more than 350whp i recommend reinforcing the block with any of the older methods, ie studding or dowelling the engine.
i've also mentioned this before as well, older kegs will become bonded and less likely to twist and break an iron versus a freshly assembled engine. so an older block may survive at higher power levels without reinforcement.
if you feel like doing some more reading i outlined a customer's build on a series 5 turbo engine which had the weak casting early S5 turbo rear iron. that engine was dowelled but since then i have moved more towards studding the engines, as i had another dowelled engine still manage to twist and crack an iron since then. the dowels warped and actually cracked because they are hollow.
https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...tuning-983611/
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-16-13 at 04:17 PM.
10-18-13, 03:56 PM
#30
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not exactly, which is why i am studding this engine. the S4 has the same casting for the irons dating all the way back to the early 70's, giving it a ceiling of about 350whp of reliable use.
last i heard, the new turbo irons were all thick castings. but i find that hard to believe, there has to be some old thin casting ones out there still.
last i heard, the new turbo irons were all thick castings. but i find that hard to believe, there has to be some old thin casting ones out there still.
i bet they are all the new style, as they switched to the thick casting in 91, and its not like they have millions sitting around, they have like 5.
10-19-13, 04:55 PM
#33
don't make me strangle you!
at this point i would rather have air conditioning inside the cabin, it's been about 8 years since it got ripped out.
no more progress just yet, unpiling the schedule still after taking a couple days off this week.
at this point i would rather have air conditioning inside the cabin, it's been about 8 years since it got ripped out.
no more progress just yet, unpiling the schedule still after taking a couple days off this week.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-19-13 at 04:58 PM.
11-05-13, 12:24 PM
#35
more updates soon, strangely the leak subsided in the engine temporarily but you know the saying "the calm before the storm"... the engine is just tired and i know it but it still gets from point a to point b for now.
the Y16M-D Aisin 6 speed worked out fine but took far too long to make the tools to break apart the main shaft. customer was pleased and said it shifted better than it ever has. those gears are sharp and setting the assembly into the case without any help isn't fun, when the gears like to dig through skin nearly to bone.
the reinforced, externally oil fed B code 20B is back home. 5 studs in the front housing, 7 through the rear 2 plus solid dowels.
now to tear apart this 4 port renesis to see how bad the rust is from sitting for months with water in it..
12.7mm studs coming in a few days as soon as i have the time to mill them for my engine. the feel they gave torquing the 20B was much more positive than the original flimsy stock tension bolts, 40ft/lbs on stock bolts feels like they are about to snap but the new studs torque smoothly with no flex. dimensions are the same as the set i made for the 20B rear half so they should go fairly quick.
the Y16M-D Aisin 6 speed worked out fine but took far too long to make the tools to break apart the main shaft. customer was pleased and said it shifted better than it ever has. those gears are sharp and setting the assembly into the case without any help isn't fun, when the gears like to dig through skin nearly to bone.
the reinforced, externally oil fed B code 20B is back home. 5 studs in the front housing, 7 through the rear 2 plus solid dowels.
now to tear apart this 4 port renesis to see how bad the rust is from sitting for months with water in it..
12.7mm studs coming in a few days as soon as i have the time to mill them for my engine. the feel they gave torquing the 20B was much more positive than the original flimsy stock tension bolts, 40ft/lbs on stock bolts feels like they are about to snap but the new studs torque smoothly with no flex. dimensions are the same as the set i made for the 20B rear half so they should go fairly quick.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-05-13 at 12:38 PM.
11-05-13, 12:42 PM
#36
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the Y16M-D Aisin 6 speed worked out fine but took far too long to make the tools to break apart the main shaft. customer was pleased and said it shifted better than it ever has. those gears are sharp and setting the assembly into the case without any help isn't fun, when the gears like to dig through skin nearly to bone.
11-06-13, 10:15 AM
#39
hi! 
someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.
i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-06-13 at 10:39 AM.
11-06-13, 12:39 PM
#40
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I missed something didnt I? anywho, I have a complete S4 AC system if you want it, you helped me out and I see you are looking to add AC again. Condensor, lines, most mount hardware/if not all, pump ect.
11-06-13, 02:47 PM
#41
hi! someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.
i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
11-06-13, 07:59 PM
#43
honestly i don't know, he got a hair up his *** about some technical advice and started spewing some garbage about proper ways of doing everything and everyone else was ignorant and then on a tangent about donations to the other forum.
in any event i asked ZGN to remove me from that site, when he asked why he immediately drew his own conclusion. after the whole BDC thing i honestly don't need the possible grief from anyone over there with all their witch hunts. there's actually 4 ongoing at the moment and it just makes the whole site look bad, some of it might be warranted but really...
anyways, enough of that.
in any event i asked ZGN to remove me from that site, when he asked why he immediately drew his own conclusion. after the whole BDC thing i honestly don't need the possible grief from anyone over there with all their witch hunts. there's actually 4 ongoing at the moment and it just makes the whole site look bad, some of it might be warranted but really...
anyways, enough of that.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-06-13 at 08:03 PM.
11-06-13, 09:06 PM
#44
hi! someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.
i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
someones obviously angry about getting put down by his buddy kevin over at RCC.i guess your donations to that site didn't go as far as you thought they did... keep wasting space and i'm sure the staff here can correct it as well(even though i never asked kevin to, but perhaps one day you might actually understand that a car forum needs more than a lounge to survive), ya ******* dipshit.
i might even suggest refilling your prescription because i doubt i'm the only one who thinks you're losing your grasp on reality. if you can't afford it as you have donated the last bit of your food stamp money to RCC i may consider sending you some because i feel a little sorry for you. maybe some day you'll see how big of a bag of dicks you are being, that advice can be taken or ignored and that just because you feel you or some of your buttbuddies are always right doesn't mean every other bit of advice isn't.
i asked to be removed from RCC because you merry band of retards have wayy too much free time to go off on people about assinine things. you aren't superhero's saving the world from misinformation so stop acting like you are. i also feel for anyone who gives you even an ounce of credit after reading some of the stupid **** advice you have given, ted has given, peter has given, ALL of you have given that i also would consider bad advice but i of course don't go apeshit when someone has their own opinion
don't bother responding to this, just read it and perhaps maybe absorb even a tiny amount of it if your brain will allow it.
honestly i don't know, he got a hair up his *** about some technical advice and started spewing some garbage about proper ways of doing everything and everyone else was ignorant and then on a tangent about donations to the other forum.
in any event i asked ZGN to remove me from that site, when he asked why he immediately drew his own conclusion. after the whole BDC thing i honestly don't need the possible grief from anyone over there with all their witch hunts. there's actually 4 ongoing at the moment and it just makes the whole site look bad, some of it might be warranted but really...
anyways, enough of that.
in any event i asked ZGN to remove me from that site, when he asked why he immediately drew his own conclusion. after the whole BDC thing i honestly don't need the possible grief from anyone over there with all their witch hunts. there's actually 4 ongoing at the moment and it just makes the whole site look bad, some of it might be warranted but really...
anyways, enough of that.
Still a fresh spring breeze of bigotry and hate. Love ya bro
11-09-13, 09:26 PM
#46
i partially finished the stud set, threaded and annealed the flywheel side, the 12X1.25 threads still need to be cut on the other end and ream and rethread the irons(hint).
the set isn't complete because i have been contemplating doing yet something else experimental outside what everyone else has done for studding, which i may or may not wind up doing as of yet.
the set isn't complete because i have been contemplating doing yet something else experimental outside what everyone else has done for studding, which i may or may not wind up doing as of yet.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-09-13 at 09:30 PM.
11-19-13, 08:24 PM
#47
sorry for the lacking updates, had a day to work on the engine so started with the front iron work.
studs are 11" long, 12.7mm in diameter, 16mm threaded shanks, 10X1.0 on the flywheel end, 12X1.25 on the front end, 25* taper and 3mm deep pilot hole for the whole stud to sit inside and lock into place(this will keep the threads from having to work against the twisting force of the engine and theoretically should be superior to a simple thread in stud. i chose this because the cast iron is weakened after cutting through the nitride and i want all the studs to work in unison).
the stock tension bolt is 8mm diameter with 10X1.0 threading...
studs are 11" long, 12.7mm in diameter, 16mm threaded shanks, 10X1.0 on the flywheel end, 12X1.25 on the front end, 25* taper and 3mm deep pilot hole for the whole stud to sit inside and lock into place(this will keep the threads from having to work against the twisting force of the engine and theoretically should be superior to a simple thread in stud. i chose this because the cast iron is weakened after cutting through the nitride and i want all the studs to work in unison).
the stock tension bolt is 8mm diameter with 10X1.0 threading...
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-19-13 at 08:36 PM.
11-21-13, 06:49 PM
#48
waiting for a new rod to finish the last 3 studs.
honestly i don't even know why i'm doing this, i don't have any plans of pushing the engine over 600whp... it should be able to handle over 1000whp on ethanol if i ever do care to switch and feel like running a turbo the size of the hatch.
i've broken my fair share of irons over the years and i just tend to be weary of these weaker blocks, 6 studs would have sufficed and machining the whole block to close tolerances is proving to be a pain in the ***. but the hard part is already done.
honestly i don't even know why i'm doing this, i don't have any plans of pushing the engine over 600whp... it should be able to handle over 1000whp on ethanol if i ever do care to switch and feel like running a turbo the size of the hatch.
i've broken my fair share of irons over the years and i just tend to be weary of these weaker blocks, 6 studs would have sufficed and machining the whole block to close tolerances is proving to be a pain in the ***. but the hard part is already done.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-21-13 at 06:58 PM.
11-21-13, 08:18 PM
#50
me either, it should have been done weeks ago. but always have to take care of customers so it gets put aside until i have some time.
checking to make sure the bores line up.
the sloppy looking holes are just cast larger than 12.7mm. the tolerances are virtually nonexistent otherwise. it would have been much easier to oversize the bores .5mm but with it how it is, the surface area aligning the engine is maximized, you really can't do any better, it would be the equivalent of adding 8-9 more full dowels at least, since these offer better deflection/shear strength than the hollow dowels would.
the rotor housings have already been resurfaced but i'll need to re-bead blast them once i'm done to clean them back up.
due to the friction i will probably torque this engine to 50ft/lbs, 21ft/lbs over OEM recommendations and also into an area i have never tried torquing the engines to in the past, previously the highest being 40ft/lbs but i may change my mind as i get closer to assembly time and just do the torque to 40 and allowing it to settle in stages, too much clamping force may break the coolant seal walls prematurely. seal sleeves would alleviate it but broken walls are never a good thing.
checking to make sure the bores line up.
the sloppy looking holes are just cast larger than 12.7mm. the tolerances are virtually nonexistent otherwise. it would have been much easier to oversize the bores .5mm but with it how it is, the surface area aligning the engine is maximized, you really can't do any better, it would be the equivalent of adding 8-9 more full dowels at least, since these offer better deflection/shear strength than the hollow dowels would.
the rotor housings have already been resurfaced but i'll need to re-bead blast them once i'm done to clean them back up.
due to the friction i will probably torque this engine to 50ft/lbs, 21ft/lbs over OEM recommendations and also into an area i have never tried torquing the engines to in the past, previously the highest being 40ft/lbs but i may change my mind as i get closer to assembly time and just do the torque to 40 and allowing it to settle in stages, too much clamping force may break the coolant seal walls prematurely. seal sleeves would alleviate it but broken walls are never a good thing.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-21-13 at 08:40 PM.