eage8's SSM/HPDE FC Turbo
09-27-13, 03:33 PM
#251
I use a full size battery. Autozone sells the "Duralast Platinum" series which is a AGM battery (sealed) just like the Optima brand batteries - for half the price. I paid $145. I get 250+ RPM while cranking. my issue was excessive cranking on the fresh motor and not having a large enough ground. 4 gauge wire got h-o-t. The 4 gauge 12v going to the factory location is sufficient.
09-28-13, 07:57 PM
#252
I use a full size battery. Autozone sells the "Duralast Platinum" series which is a AGM battery (sealed) just like the Optima brand batteries - for half the price. I paid $145. I get 250+ RPM while cranking. my issue was excessive cranking on the fresh motor and not having a large enough ground. 4 gauge wire got h-o-t. The 4 gauge 12v going to the factory location is sufficient.
09-28-13, 08:04 PM
#253
Well today didn't really go as well as I'd hoped....
First this happened...
AWR roll center adjusting ball joint failed....
I borrowed a friend's car and ran home and got a set of stock ball joints to switch to... re-aligned the front end and kept running. I'll have to check my bump steer sometime this week, it feels pretty bad.
The event was a test and tune, so I was doing back to back runs and my cooling system couldn't keep up. I would have to do a few laps around FexEx feild (football stadium) to get the temps down in order to do another run. Coolant and oil would be at 220*F after a run...
I've also developed an oil leak. not sure if it's an oil cooler like or the oil cooler itself... it's not bad, but it's enough to make a spot if I sit in the same spot too long...
lots of work to do before the last event next weekend...
First this happened...
AWR roll center adjusting ball joint failed....
I borrowed a friend's car and ran home and got a set of stock ball joints to switch to... re-aligned the front end and kept running. I'll have to check my bump steer sometime this week, it feels pretty bad.
The event was a test and tune, so I was doing back to back runs and my cooling system couldn't keep up. I would have to do a few laps around FexEx feild (football stadium) to get the temps down in order to do another run. Coolant and oil would be at 220*F after a run...
I've also developed an oil leak. not sure if it's an oil cooler like or the oil cooler itself... it's not bad, but it's enough to make a spot if I sit in the same spot too long...
lots of work to do before the last event next weekend...
09-29-13, 08:25 AM
#254
yo dawg that fitment is hella tight bro.
Sorry to see it fail after spending all that time trying to get everything going. My issue regarding temperatures is I have a standalone temp gauge in the stock coolant sensor port on the rear iron next to the oil pressure sender. This gauge tends to read 20*F cooler than the ECU sensor at the water pump, which is the hot outlet coolant. Which one do I want to read? Same with the oil, do I want to read it when its going in cooled or coming out hot??
Here is the battery I'm using, I hope that link works. They seem to hate if you try and pick a part without selecting a vehicle - if you pick a vehicle it will not show the battery. Stupid site.... Duralast Platinum/Battery (34R-AGM) | AutoZone.com
Sorry to see it fail after spending all that time trying to get everything going. My issue regarding temperatures is I have a standalone temp gauge in the stock coolant sensor port on the rear iron next to the oil pressure sender. This gauge tends to read 20*F cooler than the ECU sensor at the water pump, which is the hot outlet coolant. Which one do I want to read? Same with the oil, do I want to read it when its going in cooled or coming out hot??
Here is the battery I'm using, I hope that link works. They seem to hate if you try and pick a part without selecting a vehicle - if you pick a vehicle it will not show the battery. Stupid site.... Duralast Platinum/Battery (34R-AGM) | AutoZone.com
09-29-13, 09:23 AM
#255
I have a standalone temp gauge in the stock coolant sensor port on the rear iron next to the oil pressure sender. This gauge tends to read 20*F cooler than the ECU sensor at the water pump, which is the hot outlet coolant. Which one do I want to read? Same with the oil, do I want to read it when its going in cooled or coming out hot??
That just points out the fact that the temp itself is arbitrary and irrelevant, it's the variance from norm that makes the gauge useful.
If the car is operating well and its normal temp is say, 190°, then that's normal and you're really only interested/concerned with what happens above that norm.
Everyone seems obsessed with trying to keep coolant temps at @180° but that is counterproductive and unrealistic.
Hell, GM doesn't even kick the fans on LS engines on till @220°...that's completely normal for them.
09-29-13, 05:34 PM
#256
And if you put a third sensor in a different location, you'd get a third reading.
That just points out the fact that the temp itself is arbitrary and irrelevant, it's the variance from norm that makes the gauge useful.
If the car is operating well and its normal temp is say, 190°, then that's normal and you're really only interested/concerned with what happens above that norm.
Everyone seems obsessed with trying to keep coolant temps at @180° but that is counterproductive and unrealistic.
Hell, GM doesn't even kick the fans on LS engines on till @220°...that's completely normal for them.
That just points out the fact that the temp itself is arbitrary and irrelevant, it's the variance from norm that makes the gauge useful.
If the car is operating well and its normal temp is say, 190°, then that's normal and you're really only interested/concerned with what happens above that norm.
Everyone seems obsessed with trying to keep coolant temps at @180° but that is counterproductive and unrealistic.
Hell, GM doesn't even kick the fans on LS engines on till @220°...that's completely normal for them.
and oil in the pan should stay between 195 and 230 maxing out at 250*F (the oil pedestal most of us use is after the oil cooler, so it's cooler than the pan)
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/pdfs.../97CatComp.pdf (page 154)
I'm not sure why they want you to keep it that low... I've never seen an aftermarket coolant thermostat that opens at less than 180*F
driftxsequence:
Those batteries are 41 lbs
My current battery is only ~15 lbs (Yuasa YTX24HL) It has 350 CCAs... which is a lot of a motorcycle battery. The lower end versions of the stock battery I see at advance auto only put out 500 CCA. Maybe I'll get a really small optima yellow top (civic size) it's 25 lbs and puts out 450 CCA... but first I'm going to try replacing a suspect wire...
09-29-13, 06:46 PM
#258
I highly recommend Murray 15397 t-stat for competition. 170 temp and larger opening size. 15396 if you really want a 160...
You will make more power at 190 deg, but a lower coolant temperature will reduce the risk of localized boiling(spark plug bosses)
You will make more power at 190 deg, but a lower coolant temperature will reduce the risk of localized boiling(spark plug bosses)
09-29-13, 09:27 PM
#260
something interesting I just stumbled accross. This is basically how the FD's stock components work:
7. Optimum Temps
65C (150F): too cold. According to service manual, EGR valve is non-operational below 150F, "to improve drivability when cold."
82C (180F): getting warm. Thermostat begins to open, circulating coolant through the radiator. Some coolant is still bypassing the radiator.
95C (203F): fully warm. Thermostat is fully open, not bypassing the radiator at all.
100C (212F): boiling point of pure water at atmospheric pressure.
105C (221F): getting hot. Stock ECU will activate fans to cool the car down. Fan speed will be low, or medium (if A/C is already on).
108C (226F): hot. Stock 93-95 coolant thermoswitch activates, changing fan speeds from low>> medium (or med>>high if A/C is already on) (switching to an FC thermoswitch will change this temp to 203F)
115C (240F): getting dangerous. OEM temp gauge begins to rise.
117C (243F): dangerous. boiling point of pure water with 13psi pressure cap.
121C (250F): too hot. OEM temp gauge will point to white line. Boiling point of pure water with 16psi pressure cap.
124C (256F): way too hot. Boiling point of pure water with 19psi pressure cap. Boiling point of 50/50 coolant mix with 13psi pressure cap.
127C (260F): way too hot. OEM temp gauge will point to red line.
the FD doesn't even turn on the fan until 221*F.... that's interesting. And the thermostat doesn't even fully open until 203*F...
7. Optimum Temps
65C (150F): too cold. According to service manual, EGR valve is non-operational below 150F, "to improve drivability when cold."
82C (180F): getting warm. Thermostat begins to open, circulating coolant through the radiator. Some coolant is still bypassing the radiator.
95C (203F): fully warm. Thermostat is fully open, not bypassing the radiator at all.
100C (212F): boiling point of pure water at atmospheric pressure.
105C (221F): getting hot. Stock ECU will activate fans to cool the car down. Fan speed will be low, or medium (if A/C is already on).
108C (226F): hot. Stock 93-95 coolant thermoswitch activates, changing fan speeds from low>> medium (or med>>high if A/C is already on) (switching to an FC thermoswitch will change this temp to 203F)
115C (240F): getting dangerous. OEM temp gauge begins to rise.
117C (243F): dangerous. boiling point of pure water with 13psi pressure cap.
121C (250F): too hot. OEM temp gauge will point to white line. Boiling point of pure water with 16psi pressure cap.
124C (256F): way too hot. Boiling point of pure water with 19psi pressure cap. Boiling point of 50/50 coolant mix with 13psi pressure cap.
127C (260F): way too hot. OEM temp gauge will point to red line.
the FD doesn't even turn on the fan until 221*F.... that's interesting. And the thermostat doesn't even fully open until 203*F...
09-30-13, 08:20 AM
#262
I didnt realize you had a lightweight battery eage. Have you looked into Braille batteries?
Those temperature numbers are very good to know. and makes me feel better now. I saw roughly 215*F at the outlet of the waterpump. when tracking and started to back off thinking my vmount wasnt moving air well enough.
Those temperature numbers are very good to know. and makes me feel better now. I saw roughly 215*F at the outlet of the waterpump. when tracking and started to back off thinking my vmount wasnt moving air well enough.
09-30-13, 10:19 AM
#263
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the coolant temps in he racing book came from the factory, which found you get maximum power at like 165F water temp.
or actually the story i heard was that Mazda shipped a race car to someone in the 80's and it came with a piece of paper that said optimum temps are 160F water/180F oil, or some such, and the race team spent all weekend trying to get temps down that far, unsuccessfully
the FD temps are ok, but remember they all blew water seals at low mileage, so maybe you want to be more aggressive turning the fan on, especially at maximum power.
or actually the story i heard was that Mazda shipped a race car to someone in the 80's and it came with a piece of paper that said optimum temps are 160F water/180F oil, or some such, and the race team spent all weekend trying to get temps down that far, unsuccessfully
the FD temps are ok, but remember they all blew water seals at low mileage, so maybe you want to be more aggressive turning the fan on, especially at maximum power.
09-30-13, 10:40 AM
#264
I didnt realize you had a lightweight battery eage. Have you looked into Braille batteries?
Those temperature numbers are very good to know. and makes me feel better now. I saw roughly 215*F at the outlet of the waterpump. when tracking and started to back off thinking my vmount wasnt moving air well enough.
Those temperature numbers are very good to know. and makes me feel better now. I saw roughly 215*F at the outlet of the waterpump. when tracking and started to back off thinking my vmount wasnt moving air well enough.
09-30-13, 12:10 PM
#265
Thermostats
Its on my list to purchase/replace someday
Do you have space to mount a second FC oil cooler?
This
Its on my list to purchase/replace someday
Do you have space to mount a second FC oil cooler?
the coolant temps in he racing book came from the factory, which found you get maximum power at like 165F water temp.
or actually the story i heard was that Mazda shipped a race car to someone in the 80's and it came with a piece of paper that said optimum temps are 160F water/180F oil, or some such, and the race team spent all weekend trying to get temps down that far, unsuccessfully
the FD temps are ok, but remember they all blew water seals at low mileage, so maybe you want to be more aggressive turning the fan on, especially at maximum power.
or actually the story i heard was that Mazda shipped a race car to someone in the 80's and it came with a piece of paper that said optimum temps are 160F water/180F oil, or some such, and the race team spent all weekend trying to get temps down that far, unsuccessfully
the FD temps are ok, but remember they all blew water seals at low mileage, so maybe you want to be more aggressive turning the fan on, especially at maximum power.
09-30-13, 12:20 PM
#266
Thermostats
Its on my list to purchase/replace someday
Do you have space to mount a second FC oil cooler?:
Its on my list to purchase/replace someday
Do you have space to mount a second FC oil cooler?:
SARD makes a 75*C (167*F) thermostat which is more tempting...
I bought a second cooler, we'll see if I decide to try to mount it or not. I probably will...
09-30-13, 12:56 PM
#267
I emailed Rob @ pineapple racing (because I'm running his HD water seals) and this is what he said about temps:
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
Originally Posted by pineappleracing
We have had customers with similar issues run engines to 230*F+(stock temp sender location) with no long term coolant seal issues.
I would be concerned about damaging other engine parts at those temps. High oil temps can damage bearings.
Just a reminder, the back of the w/p housing is +10*F over the stock location.
I would be concerned about damaging other engine parts at those temps. High oil temps can damage bearings.
Just a reminder, the back of the w/p housing is +10*F over the stock location.
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
09-30-13, 02:57 PM
#270
Mine have only been on the car for about a year and I hardly ever drive it....
lets just say I don't think I'll be putting them back on my car unless the stud gets a major design change.
Originally Posted by KNONFS
What are your concerns of running it? If you have the capability of adjusting fuel by a coolant correction map, then why not?
I just ordered a SARD 75*C thermostat... mainly just so that thermostat fully opens sooner (apparently stock one doesn't fully open until 203*F which I think is too high)
09-30-13, 03:17 PM
#271
I haven't contacted him yet.... but this isn't entirely unexpected. Forum member "abeomid" Pmed me shortly after I installed them saying there was a guy local to him who had the same failure I just had on his track car...
Mine have only been on the car for about a year and I hardly ever drive it....
lets just say I don't think I'll be putting them back on my car unless the stud gets a major design change.
it just seems to open too low... It's not even in mazdaspeed's ridiculously low temperature range
I just ordered a SARD 75*C thermostat... mainly just so that thermostat fully opens sooner (apparently stock one doesn't fully open until 203*F which I think is too high)
Mine have only been on the car for about a year and I hardly ever drive it....
lets just say I don't think I'll be putting them back on my car unless the stud gets a major design change.
it just seems to open too low... It's not even in mazdaspeed's ridiculously low temperature range
I just ordered a SARD 75*C thermostat... mainly just so that thermostat fully opens sooner (apparently stock one doesn't fully open until 203*F which I think is too high)
10-01-13, 10:12 AM
#272
I emailed Rob @ pineapple racing (because I'm running his HD water seals) and this is what he said about temps:
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
10-01-13, 11:52 AM
#275
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I emailed Rob @ pineapple racing (because I'm running his HD water seals) and this is what he said about temps:
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
So it sounds like I should be relatively ok running up to 240*F... (at the outlet of the water pump)
I'm going to try to seal up some holes around the radiator too to try to help out.
we asked Jim Mederer about temps, and he said something about Delta T...