Saga of #33(sa22c-500033)
02-05-09, 04:13 AM
#26
I need original wire style hose clamps. [/QUOTE]
-dude-
ebay under "240Z" there are LOTS of OEM NOS wire-style hose clamps (and a TON of other NOS/reman stuff, those lucky bastids!). Assume all the JDM manufacturers source these from the same places...
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
-dude-
ebay under "240Z" there are LOTS of OEM NOS wire-style hose clamps (and a TON of other NOS/reman stuff, those lucky bastids!). Assume all the JDM manufacturers source these from the same places...
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
02-05-09, 03:36 PM
#27
No distributor? No thanks
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Originally Posted by rotarydude
I need original wire style hose clamps.
ebay under "240Z" there are LOTS of OEM NOS wire-style hose clamps (and a TON of other NOS/reman stuff, those lucky bastids!). Assume all the JDM manufacturers source these from the same places...
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
Wow, Stu. Good find.
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmp...240Z&_osacat=0
02-06-09, 12:17 AM
#28
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ive actually seen a couple of different ones. the SA ones were slightly different from the new mazda ones i ordered, they are still available new from mazda. along with oddball things like the shifter boot/plate thing, inner door handle trims.
silly to pay a premium on ebay for stuff you can get cheaper from the right place....
silly to pay a premium on ebay for stuff you can get cheaper from the right place....
02-06-09, 04:42 AM
#29
The SA RX7 uses the same old-skule version the early Z's used. Yeah a bit pricy but since we are only talking 4 of them...? Certainly an important "touch" to a retro/restore. Just kills me how much aftermarket/OEM-style stuff is available for the 240Z cars. Maybe in a another 10yrs we'll get the same perks??
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska
02-06-09, 11:33 PM
#31
actually it isn't zinc coating, it is cad plating, the nissan ones look to have the zinc coating, however i think if I can't get oems from mazda I will by the nos nissan ones and have them plated which although costs more does get me a new clamp as oppossed to refurbished.
I love all the ideas guys
7aull those door panels you sent me after unfortunately were gone before your post
I love all the ideas guys
7aull those door panels you sent me after unfortunately were gone before your post
02-07-09, 04:39 PM
#34
actually it isn't zinc coating, it is cad plating, the nissan ones look to have the zinc coating, however i think if I can't get oems from mazda I will by the nos nissan ones and have them plated which although costs more does get me a new clamp as oppossed to refurbished.
03-04-09, 02:04 PM
#35
Ok it has been almost a month since I last posted but I did not want to post bad info and some asked very specific questions.
Quick minor update, I have been very busy with my Army training and also just had to have some minor surgery. This has been good and bad because surgery sucks, good because it has given me a good 2 weeks to be at home with my family.
Once I was home one of the first things I did was to get a good look at this car, remember I still had never seen it in person just pictures. admittedly the first viewing did not go well, I was disappointed in the car overall and felt that it was in poor shape. In fact I was quite discouraged about the prospects of being able to save much in the way of original patina on the restoration. Truth be told I should not have gone and looked at that day because we had just completed the 800 mile car trip, felt like crap and was taking Vicoden.
After getting some sleep and begining to feel a little better surgery was 2/25 we went to map out the future of #33 yesterday and to take a bunch more pictures of it. All I have to say is WOW with a clear mind I was able to see things I missed and misinterpreted from the first day.
I will have a few posts here to show and explain everything we found and it is exciting. Again just as before we thought that looking at some of this stuff would lay some questions to rest but they haven't it only stirs up the mud again.
Quick minor update, I have been very busy with my Army training and also just had to have some minor surgery. This has been good and bad because surgery sucks, good because it has given me a good 2 weeks to be at home with my family.
Once I was home one of the first things I did was to get a good look at this car, remember I still had never seen it in person just pictures. admittedly the first viewing did not go well, I was disappointed in the car overall and felt that it was in poor shape. In fact I was quite discouraged about the prospects of being able to save much in the way of original patina on the restoration. Truth be told I should not have gone and looked at that day because we had just completed the 800 mile car trip, felt like crap and was taking Vicoden.
After getting some sleep and begining to feel a little better surgery was 2/25 we went to map out the future of #33 yesterday and to take a bunch more pictures of it. All I have to say is WOW with a clear mind I was able to see things I missed and misinterpreted from the first day.
I will have a few posts here to show and explain everything we found and it is exciting. Again just as before we thought that looking at some of this stuff would lay some questions to rest but they haven't it only stirs up the mud again.
03-04-09, 02:45 PM
#36
I need to correct or clarify some Historical Rx-7 information. The primary source of this information is "Rx7 Mazda's rotary engine sports car" by Brian Long, Brian was given unprecendented access to Mazda information for his book and I have to assume that this information is the most accurate.
From his book 2nd edition we have this information. pg 32 " In mid-1977, an official in Mazda's American arm let it slip that Mazda was currently testing a two-seater sports coupe (The first 50 prototypes had been completed in January at the Hiroshima Plant Complex... ...It was stated that production should begin by the end of the year, with US sales starting somewhere around April 1978"
To me this says that the 50 prototypes were built in Jan 77 therefore #33 can't be one of them, unless Mazda built it as a prototype and later gave it a vin# with a data tag essentially turning it into a production car. I do not believe this is what happened.
Brian's book then gives more information. pg 34 "By the time this article appeared in the newsagents, 50 pilot build cars had been completed, with production vehicles starting to roll off the line in March." The article in reference is from Road & Track March 1978. The same paragraph also stated the first months US/North American production allocation at 3000 units with subsequent months supposed to be 2000 units. This information matches Mazda's published production chassis serial numbers as listed in the parts manuals/microfiches. 3/78 started with Sa22c-500,001, 4/78 started with Sa22c-502,999, 5/78 Sa22c-504,977 etc...
Another production reference point is made by Brian the section is titled THE NEW CAR IN AMERICA. pg 37 "Introduced to the press in February 1978, the Rx-7 went on the market as an early 1979 model a little while later, on 24 April."
From these statements I am trying to understand what that means for the history of #33 and for our other early car #88 as both were produced in 2/78. It is my admant belief that one or both of these cars were on hand at that press introduction. And that one or both cars are Pilot build cars. Both cars are built funny and I can prove through circumstantial evidence that they were both built by hand. I will be showing these things in the next post.
From his book 2nd edition we have this information. pg 32 " In mid-1977, an official in Mazda's American arm let it slip that Mazda was currently testing a two-seater sports coupe (The first 50 prototypes had been completed in January at the Hiroshima Plant Complex... ...It was stated that production should begin by the end of the year, with US sales starting somewhere around April 1978"
To me this says that the 50 prototypes were built in Jan 77 therefore #33 can't be one of them, unless Mazda built it as a prototype and later gave it a vin# with a data tag essentially turning it into a production car. I do not believe this is what happened.
Brian's book then gives more information. pg 34 "By the time this article appeared in the newsagents, 50 pilot build cars had been completed, with production vehicles starting to roll off the line in March." The article in reference is from Road & Track March 1978. The same paragraph also stated the first months US/North American production allocation at 3000 units with subsequent months supposed to be 2000 units. This information matches Mazda's published production chassis serial numbers as listed in the parts manuals/microfiches. 3/78 started with Sa22c-500,001, 4/78 started with Sa22c-502,999, 5/78 Sa22c-504,977 etc...
Another production reference point is made by Brian the section is titled THE NEW CAR IN AMERICA. pg 37 "Introduced to the press in February 1978, the Rx-7 went on the market as an early 1979 model a little while later, on 24 April."
From these statements I am trying to understand what that means for the history of #33 and for our other early car #88 as both were produced in 2/78. It is my admant belief that one or both of these cars were on hand at that press introduction. And that one or both cars are Pilot build cars. Both cars are built funny and I can prove through circumstantial evidence that they were both built by hand. I will be showing these things in the next post.
03-04-09, 04:41 PM
#37
#33 Hand built?
One of our fellow forum members asked me to go all CIS this car, I need to say thank you to him for that request. Thank god for digital cameras. I have been posting all of the raw images to my photobucket album. (This is a public album so anyone can look at it but please do not use the images without permission)
One of the areas that we have been looking at hard is chassis construction. With an assembly line produced car you expect a certain level of fit and finish on the chassis construction. you expect diferent components to be spot welded in an even pattern with consistant flow have a uniform appearance and depth. On the #33 car we found numerous spots of uneven welds and welds out of line. Upon initial snap inspection we felt that this car had been badly wrecked and poorly repaired. Digging a little deeper, trying to determine the extent of this mythical wreck, we found that this type of welding is actually consistant throughout the car. Our inspection also determined that with the exception of minor scrapes and dings there is no evidence of any accidents.
The following pictures are of the right side (passenger) fender well/strut assembly of the #33, note the location and workmanship of the spot welds also note the odd location and application of the seam sealer
Now the same basic pictures from the #88 car the spots are not as easy to see on a yellow car but you can still see the same uneven characteristics and even double strikes also note the same unusual seam sealer.
More evidence of poor fit which is consistant with a hand produced car note the gap in the rocker panel seam
One of the areas that we have been looking at hard is chassis construction. With an assembly line produced car you expect a certain level of fit and finish on the chassis construction. you expect diferent components to be spot welded in an even pattern with consistant flow have a uniform appearance and depth. On the #33 car we found numerous spots of uneven welds and welds out of line. Upon initial snap inspection we felt that this car had been badly wrecked and poorly repaired. Digging a little deeper, trying to determine the extent of this mythical wreck, we found that this type of welding is actually consistant throughout the car. Our inspection also determined that with the exception of minor scrapes and dings there is no evidence of any accidents.
The following pictures are of the right side (passenger) fender well/strut assembly of the #33, note the location and workmanship of the spot welds also note the odd location and application of the seam sealer
Now the same basic pictures from the #88 car the spots are not as easy to see on a yellow car but you can still see the same uneven characteristics and even double strikes also note the same unusual seam sealer.
More evidence of poor fit which is consistant with a hand produced car note the gap in the rocker panel seam
03-04-09, 06:18 PM
#38
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having looked at 100's of these things, there are some parts that were done by hand, like the seam sealer. some cars have TONS and some cars have very little.
my ex-SA even has runs in the paint (ive seen FD's with runs too) kinda where the roof meets the rear hatch.
i just went and looked at my 82, and the spots on the shock tower are better than yours, but they aren't straight either.
totally cool
my ex-SA even has runs in the paint (ive seen FD's with runs too) kinda where the roof meets the rear hatch.
i just went and looked at my 82, and the spots on the shock tower are better than yours, but they aren't straight either.
totally cool
03-04-09, 06:35 PM
#39
I agree, but look at the uniformity of all the welds in your car, they are never going to be in a perfectly straight line, these welds vary dramatically in depth and location from early production cars even in april and may of 78. The other thing I noted was there are quite a few what I call double strikes, 2 welds one right on top of the other or right next to it. On the seam sealer it had to be applied by hand always, what I found unique about these cars is every seam is brushed not the expected bead.
but yea it is really cool to see these things
but yea it is really cool to see these things
03-10-09, 09:27 AM
#40
Waffles - hmmm good
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Yeah my 80 SA is VIN 626683. It shows the exact same sort of issues identical to what you have in the photos. The sloppy seam sealer, sloppy welds, gaps in the rockers even. No robotic welders back then!
03-12-09, 01:18 AM
#41
More updates, I am back at training in KS, before I left TX I took her out for a spin. My hat is off to the PO Mech she is awesome, good throttle response, nice tight clutch and steering, braking exactly as expected.
I took a ton of pics and will be posting some more of them.
In light of some of the comments I have received I did want to clarify some of my previous statments.
All of the welds in this car are generally where you would expect them to be the location is very similar to most other Rx7s. The sloppiness and uneveness we are talking about is very difficult to see in a 2D picture, if you could see it in person you just look at and would say "that aint right" the seam sealer is on every Rx7 I have ever seen but it always appeared in a nice tight bead that seemed to be applied from a gun this car was applied with a brush and they applied it to more seams than normal. The cool factor for me is by comparing the SAs around my garage I can truely see the evolution in the construction.
I welcome any comments, stories or ideas that will help add to the future of this Car. Also I need some help coming up with an appropriate name for her as well.
I took a ton of pics and will be posting some more of them.
In light of some of the comments I have received I did want to clarify some of my previous statments.
All of the welds in this car are generally where you would expect them to be the location is very similar to most other Rx7s. The sloppiness and uneveness we are talking about is very difficult to see in a 2D picture, if you could see it in person you just look at and would say "that aint right" the seam sealer is on every Rx7 I have ever seen but it always appeared in a nice tight bead that seemed to be applied from a gun this car was applied with a brush and they applied it to more seams than normal. The cool factor for me is by comparing the SAs around my garage I can truely see the evolution in the construction.
I welcome any comments, stories or ideas that will help add to the future of this Car. Also I need some help coming up with an appropriate name for her as well.
03-13-09, 10:43 AM
#48
i saw this car in person when I went to go pick up the spare engine from your place Dave...and man this SA is beautiful! i couldn't believe the condition that it is in....great stuff!!!
03-13-09, 12:05 PM
#49
I'm sure that if anyone asks "hey, what's the earliest verified 7? people will respond instantly with "#33, rotarydude owns her."
03-14-09, 11:42 PM
#50
Interior
Here is the interior as it has come to us, i am highlighting the problems more than the whole.
Dash overall OK but there are small cracks in the speaker(I have replacement but still need one more for #88) I have a really good radio, working the deal for a good faceplate with a forum member.
Passenger side door panel(missing the pics of the drivers)
flash made the rear look worse than it is( have a NOS rear hatch lock cover)
visors in good shape as is rearview mirror
Seats are 79 vinyl red-dots notice the beat bolsters and ripped seam very typical replacements have been located although if anyone is getting rid of a set that is absolutely primo I am interested as the ones I have are very good but not spectacular.
will post more later
Dash overall OK but there are small cracks in the speaker(I have replacement but still need one more for #88) I have a really good radio, working the deal for a good faceplate with a forum member.
Passenger side door panel(missing the pics of the drivers)
flash made the rear look worse than it is( have a NOS rear hatch lock cover)
visors in good shape as is rearview mirror
Seats are 79 vinyl red-dots notice the beat bolsters and ripped seam very typical replacements have been located although if anyone is getting rid of a set that is absolutely primo I am interested as the ones I have are very good but not spectacular.
will post more later