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Honestly, the name above is just the first thing that came to mind, but lets roll with it.
If you peruse my limited posts you will notice I had a beautiful 84 GS that I brought back from a 14 year hiatus in a field. In my stupid mind I thought to sell it and be done with rotaries, limited space and other interests what have you. In my years since I miss my red GS everyday and wish I hadn't sold her. During a side-business quest borrowing a welder, the gentleman made mention of two RX7s in need of someone to love them. The first a 79 red gs, no motor, transmission or interior but straight body. The second is the one you see in the pictures below. An 85 black, GSL SE with the 13b, original mirrors and no interior. Both to be had for $500. He stated the car had some electrical issues (more on that in future updates).
I shall try and update the thread weekly for your enjoyment.
79 GS What to do with this one??? Under the bonnet if you would Bringing her home Base Plan (loosely based off the guide from the forum)
From here car looks pretty good. Everything seems to be there.
Yeah I am going to post an update with more pics and information on the first hour or two of work. Always hard to find time with the young ones wanting all my attention outside of work.
I have a couple videos I will post links to once uploaded on the YouTube. Nothing special but a bit more interesting to look at.
How long has car been sitting,that’ll determine what needs to be done.
Drain gas is a good idea changing filter is another. I ll post pics tomorrow of test connector you can jump to run fuel pump to pressurize system to check for leaks.
Check cap and rotor for obvious things like cracks,be sure carbon button is in place in top of cap.
Get a new set of plugs for it. BUR8EQ14 is correct plug. Everything looks in place in ignition system,try to start engine and if no start then begin fault tracing components.
While plugs are out,squirt some premix or light engine oil into plug holes with squirt gun and a piece of hose on the end.
Turn the engine over by hand a half dozen times to distribute oil and put plugs in.
Fresh battery needed to get started,be sure engine has oil and coolant is full.
Do you know why car was sitting,did it stop running or another reason?
How long has car been sitting,that’ll determine what needs to be done.
Drain gas is a good idea changing filter is another. I ll post pics tomorrow of test connector you can jump to run fuel pump to pressurize system to check for leaks.
Check cap and rotor for obvious things like cracks,be sure carbon button is in place in top of cap.
Get a new set of plugs for it. BUR8EQ14 is correct plug. Everything looks in place in ignition system,try to start engine and if no start then begin fault tracing components.
While plugs are out,squirt some premix or light engine oil into plug holes with squirt gun and a piece of hose on the end.
Turn the engine over by hand a half dozen times to distribute oil and put plugs in.
Fresh battery needed to get started,be sure engine has oil and coolant is full.
Do you know why car was sitting,did it stop running or another reason?
The car sat for 3 years and had oil in it when I picked up and some coolant. Supposedly has electrical issues and as you will see in my video the fuel pump was completely ripped off from probably whatever made that dent on the side.
As for the rest of your suggestions I will walk through when uploading my work tonight. So please check back tonight for more details. Hard to type it all out on my phone at work.
Quick update tonight, sorry no pictures of actual work (please god someone tell me how to have as attachments and not inserted in post), however details on my progress for first 2-3 hours put in.
)
1: Started by checking engine for oil and coolant
~ Oil was full and fairly new looking
~ Coolant did not show in radiator so leveled it off
2: Removed old battery
3: Aired up the 12+ year old tires so it was not sitting flat on ground
4: Pulled plug wires and plugs (proper BUR8EQ14 used previously) ~ Put in some oil into the engine to break and lubricate
5: Started removing wasp nests - so far around 7 found and taken care of
Day 2:
1: Busted out the 22mm wrench and gave the engine a slow turn
~ oil in plug holes and repeat until a few full rotations achieved
~ audible compression heard in exhaust ports
2: Jacked up the rear end of the car
3: Pulled the 14mm gas drain plug
~ Around 3 gallons of gas drained (very stinky/old) no rust color
~ reinstalled plug
4: Inspected Fuel Pump (
)
~ found out one included with car was a bust - wrong thread
~ ordered new Spectra from rock auto
5: Installed new wix fuel filter
~ bought new 1/2 in line for pump
Watched your videos,looks like the oil cooler lines have been replaced by previous owner,saving you @ $200.
The fuel pump currently on car is aftermarket pump.Hoping your replacement pump is correct. In correct thread/fittings is a common theme with aftermarket pumps.
Try to remove fitting from fuel pulsation damper and see if it will thread into your "new" pump that you have.It may work and you may be able to use it and cancel order for replacement.Use care to not damage pulsation damper.
Once fitting removed from damper, clamp hex end lightly into a vice and use some water pump pliers and break fitting that was molded into old pump outlet free and unscrew it. If you have to some vise grips can be used but don't crush the brass collar from old pump onto fitting threads. Once vise grips are in place,wack handle of vise grips with a hammer and it should shock broken pump inlet insert free from fitting you want to reuse.There will be a copper crush sealing ring between the two. Take your removed fitting,remove fitting from replacement pump and see if threads match,good chance they will. If so install with crush washer from new pump and tighten,snug is good,you don't want to break insert out of new pump.
A lot of aftermarket pumps aren't same spec as Mazda oe pump and unable to develop pressure/volume of fuel the engine needs. The "new" pump looks to be Bosch appears to be appropriate for application.
The actual fuel inlet line is 12mm. The 1/2" line you propose to use will initially tighten onto pump inlet but will begin to leak at some point. Source some 12mm Porsche Fuel Injection hose,can be found on ebay,you can buy a 3' section. You can see what it looks like in one of my pics.There is a section of 12mm fuel line that goes between tank and fuel lines mounted on the body that could be replaced using that same hose so what you don't use at pump won't go to waste.
Being that there was an aftermarket pump in place already,the original mounts for fuel pump may be gone or they may still be there. Your"new" replacement pump looks the right size to be able to be clamped into original mount if it's there,the one on car looks to be a smaller od than factory pump.
The original inlet hose to pump is molded and makes a sharp 90 degree bend,attempting to use straight hose for replacement often kinks the hose where it needs to make this bend. I'll post a pic here of how i got around this using a gates coil spring sleeve to bend hose without kinking it.The multi wall heavy layers of FI hose help to resist kinking.
Use 1/2" heater hose clamps on new hose as it is braided and thicker od than what is on car.
May want to consider replacing 8mm feed and return lines under car and in engine compartment. 5/16" is size used for replacement,use FI hose clamps,they are different than low pressure screw clamps which will chew into hose upon tightening.You can see them in pics also
I'll try to scare up part # for Gates sleeve and post in your thread. In the pic is what should be under your car,pump,plate it mounts on and bushings that bracket that holds pump go on. I suspect these parts may be missing,if so you'll need to mount pump somehow,it's too heavy to hang from fuel lines,eventually causing a leak or breakage.
When you get all fuel system components in place,i can guide you thru how to flush all old fuel from lines,fuel rail and pressure regulator before attempting to start car on what resides in there currently.
Gates #28510 stainless 1/2"unicoil hose/line shaper. Should be able to be found at local parts hose like Napa for@$3 or online.
Last edited by GSLSEforme; 09-05-19 at 08:33 AM.
Reason: parts info
Thank you for all this useful information. I was having a hard time figuring out what sizes were for the fuel lines. Would be nice to source a fuel pump cover like you have once it is running.
The inlet on this states a 1/2 diameter so do you think it will eventually leak on the car side or will it be ok because of flow direction? Good tip on the bender I will go ahead an source one to prevent any kinking issues that may arise and try to keep bend fairly normal. The pump that was in the car had coarse threading and would not match.
Second question for confirmation. The new lines with the different FI hose clamps, they are the 5/16 replacement line you stated. Cause i would like to replace what i can while down there.
I should get the new lines in place before first pressurization, but am wanting to test the engine before doing additional costs. Your expertise in flushing remaining system would be most welcome.
Last edited by Blade117; 09-05-19 at 09:28 AM.
Reason: additional thoughts
Yes 5/16” very close to 8mm,good fit for replacement.
Use hi pressure FI hose and clamps.
Regarding 1/2” inlet on replacement pump. I would still use 12mm hose for feed line. It can be persuaded onto1/2” pump nipple with some WD40 and will be fine and metal feed line on body is 12mm and again use of 1/2” hose here will lead to seepage/leakage eventually,tightening hose clamp further just cuts into hose.
RE: “new” replacement pump,one in box in car...understood thread pitch on outlet is wrong. That can be unscrewed from pump and fitting that was correct in pump hanging from wiring presently,the part that snapped off. Remove that broken off fitting from pulsation damper and take the brass collar off and see if that thread(pump side) matches the outlet fitting on pump in box in car,if so,install it and use that pump.
Are we on same page?
Original on the right, on the left is one pulled from "replacement" which was in the car to be installed.
Unfortunately that will not work. Good idea though.
So I going to source some 12mm line for that pump inlet. I don't know if any place in my town carries the fi line so I will have to verify. Otherwise looking at ordering for a minimum of 15 feet at 40$.
A high end import repair shop catering to Ferrari,BMW,Porsche,Mercedes would have that in stock,perhaps you could buy a couple feet of it from them.
Local parts stores will not stock that size hose. 15’for $40 is not a bad price. Maybe look on eBay and see if someone selling by foot.
Local parts stores will stock FI hose in 5/16” size,should stock clamps to go with it.
More or less just fiddled around in my spare 30 minutes I could scrounge up.
Gave the car it's first wash in I don't know how long, hoping that will drive whatever hornets are left away.
Then just for fun and because the streaks in paint were driving me crazy, I went ahead and did a quick cleaner wax on the hood. Thinking just a decent wax until I get mechanical sorted.
I'll post a pic or two showing you what you need to do to flush fuel system. You'll need something like a gallon milk jug, a piece 16 gauge wire @2" long and 2 male spade terminal crimp connectors. Strip some insulation from each end of your wire and crimp spade connectors on each end. If you don't have 16 gauge,14-18 will work fine
Look closely at studs on replacement clutch master cylinder and at studs on one removed from car. Often on replacements,the studs are different and nuts bottom out on studs before m/cyl is tightened to firewall.If there's any question,switch the studs from original to replacement before installing,will prevent you from having to do it 2x. Double nut both mounting nuts flange to flange on mounting stud and tighten them,turn the stud out using lower nut. Not trying to spend your money...if you're keeping this car for any amount of time,it's good practice to replace clutch master and clutch slave at same time. Replacing hose a good idea too,at least flush it with brakleen and compressed air to get old gunk out. I don't have enough fingers on my hands to count how many times a clutch slave leaked or didn't work or failed the next day or a week later after m/cyl install. They are easier to install than clutch master is
A high end import repair shop catering to Ferrari,BMW,Porsche,Mercedes would have that in stock,perhaps you could buy a couple feet of it from them.
Local parts stores will not stock that size hose. 15’for $40 is not a bad price. Maybe look on eBay and see if someone selling by foot.
Local parts stores will stock FI hose in 5/16” size,should stock clamps to go with it.
Got about 3 feet of 5/16 FI hose and ten clamps for $11. Still haven't found a place with the 12mm inlet hose but I will make due with over exerted clamps until I do. Not able to install tonight but am giving it a go tomorrow afternoon. Looking to try a fire up to see what happens after pump install tomorrow.
Plan is after install to do a 1 gallon with 1oz premix tcw3 rated and use a mild amount of starting fluid to get the first combustion. If this is a bad idea I am taking suggestions for first attempt.
You'll want to put in 2-3 gals and premix accordingly,likely cycle best part of a gallon thru system flushing lines and fuel rail. Leave the return fuel hose disconnected from return line at firewall so you can put that into your container.
The fuel lines in the engine compartment will be work hardened from heat and age and will be difficult to remove without bending metal fuel lines. Slide the clamp back on the hose and use a fresh single edge razor blade and slice thru the hose from end to @2" back. Use a small pocket size screwdriver to peel the hose away from metal line. Silicone spray into ends of new hose will assist you in installing the hose the correct distance onto metal line.
As far as using starting fluid,you shouldn't and you can't...starting fluid has no lubricant in it and by nature of its chemical makeup will tend to wash off the oil you put in engine to lubricate housings and seals.By the time you flush the fuel system then pressurize it to check for leaks,the lines and fuel rail will be full and if everything is functional,the car will start right up-like your daily driver-or it won't and you'll need to do some fault tracing. Resist temptation to grind away on starter trying to get it to start. If the engine has compression,right amount of fuel pressure/volume and spark,it will start right up. If you're not familiar with starting an SE engine,you push the gas pedal down @1/2 way and release it to set the fast idle cam,then crank to start without giving it any gas,like you do with your DD.
The reason you can't start and run an SE on starting fluid is because you need to have air intake hose attached to throttle body. As engine cranks,the vacuum it develops pulls air into engine from air filter housing. On the bottom of air filter box is an air flow meter that the ecu gets info from to calculate amount of fuel injected. In air flow meter is a flap door that opens as engine is cranked pulling air in. When flap door opens,it closes a set of contacts that allow fuel pump to start and run. No intake hose,no fuel pump.
When i get home tomorrow morning,i'll post couple pics showing you what to do with the jumper you made.
The black boot covered connector you see here is the fuel pump test connector. The jumper wire i described for you to make plugs into each terminal of this connector,turn key to run position and fuel pump should run allowing you to flush system and then pressure test for leaks without having to crank engine so you can hear pump and sound of fuel leaks.This is not meant to run the car,it is for fuel system tests only as it circumvents all the failsafes that would shut fuel pump off in event of an accident,etc to prevent pressurized fuel from spraying onto hot components.
The green connector is for checking and adjusting the throttle position sensor on the throttle body. The ecu uses this for fine tuning and partial idle control. At some point you will need to check or adjust the tps. Mazda had a tool for this,but you can make your own for about $3
Tps operation/adjustment will not affect your initial start.
Hope this helps and you have a running car. Post back how things went. Of course if it doesn't start,post that too and i'll direct you where to begin fault tracing for no start.
The black boot covered connector you see here is the fuel pump test connector. The jumper wire i described for you to make plugs into each terminal of this connector,turn key to run position and fuel pump should run allowing you to flush system and then pressure test for leaks without having to crank engine so you can hear pump and sound of fuel leaks.This is not meant to run the car,it is for fuel system tests only as it circumvents all the failsafes that would shut fuel pump off in event of an accident,etc to prevent pressurized fuel from spraying onto hot components.
The green connector is for checking and adjusting the throttle position sensor on the throttle body. The ecu uses this for fine tuning and partial idle control. At some point you will need to check or adjust the tps. Mazda had a tool for this,but you can make your own for about $3
Tps operation/adjustment will not affect your initial start.
Hope this helps and you have a running car. Post back how things went. Of course if it doesn't start,post that too and i'll direct you where to begin fault tracing for no start.
Super useful information. I attempted to get fuel through the system today but alas someone must have really buggered the electrical system. I connected everything up and had the connector jumped as instructed and turn the key to the on position however the pump refuses to turn on. I did not have a chance today but was looking to put a volt meter on the connectors to measure that power is actually shifting to the pump at all or if those lines are dead. I know on my 12a, I ended up running a keyed power line to the pump to get her going however that would not work with this style. New 5/16 line in place and FI clamps in place. Still sourcing a 12mm fuel line.
Fuel system test Clamps are not in this picture. Also it is a test configuration
Good battery in car? Turn everything on and see what works and what doesn't,make a list. Do you have a testlight? If not get one,you can pick a decent one up at a parts storefor @$10. With this start checking both sides of fuselinks underhood at left inner fenderwell.
There are 5 and they feed Headlights,headlight motors,ecu,injectors and there is a main fuselink that feeds everything inside the car. When you turn the key on do you see a row of red warning lights at bottom of instrument cluster?
Next,with your testlight,check all fuses in underdash fusebox. With your testlight,you can check for power and ground at fuel pump connectors you could be missing one or the other,that'll be a clue. Next place to check is inside car where connector is for fuel pump harness that goes thru floor.
Post back what you find.
Good battery in car? Turn everything on and see what works and what doesn't,make a list. Do you have a testlight? If not get one,you can pick a decent one up at a parts storefor @$10. With this start checking both sides of fuselinks underhood at left inner fenderwell.
There are 5 and they feed Headlights,headlight motors,ecu,injectors and there is a main fuselink that feeds everything inside the car. When you turn the key on do you see a row of red warning lights at bottom of instrument cluster?
Next,with your testlight,check all fuses in underdash fusebox. With your testlight,you can check for power and ground at fuel pump connectors you could be missing one or the other,that'll be a clue. Next place to check is inside car where connector is for fuel pump harness that goes thru floor.
Post back what you find.
So I have not tested the fuses yet, however I do get the row of warning lights when I turn the key. I will start checking the fuse links tonight hopefully and post back what I find. I visually checked inside car fuses and none were broken/burned.
So I have not tested the fuses yet, however I do get the row of warning lights when I turn the key. I will start checking the fuse links tonight hopefully and post back what I find. I visually checked inside car fuses and none were broken/burned.
All warning lights working is a good sign.
Use the test light,fuses can look good and not be.
I can tell you all kinds of stories about shops replacing major components like transmissions,engine/body computers. Big$$$ and all along it was just a fuse...
ATC fuses in your car have two “windows in the top over each blade that allows you to use a test light to touch each blade. Good fuse will light test light on both terminals. Ground the clip on test light,turn headlights on and turn key to run position to power up the circuits and test fuses. Test fuselinks same way.
You mentioned a prior owner did some “electrical work” on car. Where,can you post pic of it. Do you know if the car ran after that,why was car where it was?
Use the test light,fuses can look good and not be.
I can tell you all kinds of stories about shops replacing major components like transmissions,engine/body computers. Big$$$ and all along it was just a fuse...
ATC fuses in your car have two “windows in the top over each blade that allows you to use a test light to touch each blade. Good fuse will light test light on both terminals. Ground the clip on test light,turn headlights on and turn key to run position to power up the circuits and test fuses. Test fuselinks same way.
You mentioned a prior owner did some “electrical work” on car. Where,can you post pic of it. Do you know if the car ran after that,why was car where it was?
Ok, so got to work on the car last night and what a mess I have uncovered. Fuel pump was not connected at all. The apparent bypass "fix" they applied for a toggle on the fuel pump did not work. I reconnected the fuel pump wires to the stock variant only to discover it was not wired to the ignition switch so it would not supply power to the fuel pump any which way. I attempted to wire back into the existing ignition switch but the way they wired it gives an always powered to the ignition so when connected the wire attempted to burn away. Going to need to do a much more thorough diagnostic and probably start with getting the ignition properly wired. Any suggestions going forward with the rewire before fuel pump attempt would be nice. I am going to scour the forum and try to find a proper wiring so that I can start on the correct way to wire the ignition so that I can not try to burn the car down.
Also I investigated further wiring issues and whatever they were thinking during their rewire.
Wow,just wow... makes me sad to see that. Maybe you can give that car a better life.
Clearly a parts store ignition switch.
Is the original switch still in ignition column,do you have the key,does the key tumbler section allow the key to turn?
If yes take the panel under the steering column down,remove the upper/lower shrouds from upper steering column and get eyes on what you have there.
You can use a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to cut slots in remains of breakaway bolts that hold switch in place and unscrew bolts and remove key switch assembly. You can also use a very sharp small chisel to walk the bolt counterclockwise to break it free and pliers to remove it.
The electrical section of switch is still available and if you need a replacement key section of switch you could post a want to buy in1st gen classifieds for that.
Go online at foxed ca.rx7 manuals and find 1985 factory service manual and in it wiring diagrams.
This will get you started in right direction,you may want to download contents,
Maybe disconnect the battery in car while you’re away from it. Would be a shame if car caught fire from that professional wiring. Leave battery terminals hand tight while working on it,don’t want to be fumbling for wrenches if/when something is shorting.
You are doing great work? Keep it up!. The fuel pump, in stock form, will operate only when the engine is turning over either to start or when running. So to test for proper voltage, the ignition switch needs to be in the start position.
I'm a huge fan of the color combo you have on the SE! Sparkling Black Metallic is just beautiful on these cars!
09-03-19, 12:26 AM
