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Huyler's Street & HPDE Build

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Old 04-10-19, 09:56 PM
  #151  
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Based on the other thread I think it's just the injectors resonating through the fuel lines and fuel pressure regulator. I'll confirm tomorrow.

This evenings good news is that I solved the wideband issue. Innovate got back to my email inquiry and suggested not using the serial port but instead use the yellow wire on the harness. I completely forgot there was another wire as I had tucked it away ages ago. After some trial and error I got the 440d to give me readings by connecting the yellow wire to the white pin 1C for external spare 0-5v analog. Now that I have a wideband reading, I can turn on closed loop and maybe try out "slow converge" on my drive to work tomorrow.

Update on the oil leak. After replacing the o-rings on the pedestal and adding some RTV to the RB oil temp adapter, I was still seeing oil under the pedestal. Now I think it may be coming from the oil temp sensor threads themselves. I tightened it down a little more, and placed a paper towel underneath to confirm whether that is the source.

I was still experiencing some bucking under decel during the last drive but it was less pronounced. The log showed some oscillation of the RPM but I don't know if that is the source of the issue or a result of something else. It was between cells on the timing table that had a big gap so I think maybe it was just fighting the drop in RPM.

I'm not too worried about it right now as the shop will likely start from scratch with the timing and fuel tables when they get it on a dyno and can load up various RPMs more accurately. The only thing I may mess with tomorrow is the transient tables to see if I can eliminate the lean condition when I pump the throttle. I'll data log my drive to work and have a close look.
Old 04-11-19, 10:47 AM
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Here's where I'm at with the transient throttle. It feels as though the accel pump isn't even working despite me bumping the default gain of 5% all the way to 100%. As soon as I press the throttle quickly, it goes full lean. After a moment you can see that the TPS-based enrich boosts the fuel but it takes nearly a second for the engine to recover.




Old 04-26-19, 10:11 PM
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Well, I dropped it off at the tuner and they got everything sorted for me. Car pulls hard now. I don't have a baseline, or comparisons for this dyno but I'll throw the numbers out there. It made 124hp at 6,500 RPM with the long air horns you've seen in many of my photos. I gave them the short horns (see below) and they swapped those on and it bumped the power to 132hp at 7,000 RPM. The motor can probably make more with a bigger throttle body, but I wanted to leave a little torque on the table for cruising around town. For now, I'll stick with the short horns and figure out some sort of air box. The foam air filter was garbage and it sucked it into the horns. I figured that would happen, it was a short term solution. I may put the filter back on for the street and take it off for track days when I'm running high rpm.

It feels good on the street and in traffic. I have to slip the clutch a little more starting from a dead stop but once the motor is over 2,000 RPM it cruises fine. At full throttle it doesn't really wake up until 6,000 RPM and it really pulls hard from 7,000-8,000 before tapering off. That's gonna be killer on my first track day because that's the meat of where I was running the old motor through several tight sections of the track.

Huyler's Street & HPDE Build-photo924.jpg

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Old 04-27-19, 06:34 PM
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Only about 500 miles into the build and the alternator failed. Stupid Rock Auto reman. I had another so I threw it on...but the low voltage burned up the O2 sensors so I had to replace those too.

Cold start is rough for about 5-10 minutes of driving, I'm guessing it's the manifold still being cold even though the coolant is warm.
Old 04-27-19, 07:29 PM
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Beautiful strut bar
Old 04-27-19, 08:38 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by chuyler1
Only about 500 miles into the build and the alternator failed. Stupid Rock Auto reman. I had another so I threw it on...but the low voltage burned up the O2 sensors so I had to replace those too.

Cold start is rough for about 5-10 minutes of driving, I'm guessing it's the manifold still being cold even though the coolant is warm.
Remans...generally have poor quality control at rebuilders and why most have short warranty periods,they get what's needed to work again,coat of paint,glass beaded cases and presto! new to you alternator. This is rampant with modern cars,but with older cars such as ours, the availability of cores to rebuild are in short supply.
This goes for alternators,starters,calipers,water pumps,master cylinders and the parts to renew these pieces are no longer mainstream,needed in quantities so many less manufacturers produce them,in reality a handful so parts available are not made for long service life=lower quality and majority of reman units available no matter the brand name sold under are assembled with the same parts. The quality of Nikki carb overhaul kits available fit easily in this discussion.

It is possible to rebuild most of these components on your car with access to good quality parts and needed skills and have an as new part when finished,obviously not everyone can do this.

About all you can do is buy a reman product from a known seller like Denso,AC Delco etc.They cost more as their quality standards are higher and warranties longer as a result,not saying there wouldn't be a part failure but since built better for a longer warranty,failures will be lower. It is possible to rebuild most of these components on your car with access to good quality parts and skills needed and have an as new product when finished,obviously

We're all on a budget keeping our cars on the road,if you're keeping your car indefinitely and plan on driving it regularly,source the best parts you can.
Old 04-28-19, 12:00 AM
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The one that failed was an AC Delco, I chose it specifically because of the brand recognition. I installed the spare and sent the bad one back in warranty. I'm a little worried about making it all the way to DGRR and back, so I might pack up the OEM one off the old motor. It's not as high of amperage as the FC one I have now, but I know it works.
Old 04-28-19, 11:30 AM
  #158  
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Question,did you ever do a max output test on RA alternator/electrical system by operating everything onboard at max(including radiator fan,full speed or whatever % it runs with engine heat soaked at idle) at same time for a max draw both at idle and @2500 rpm to see both voltage and amps supplied to see what actual system requirements are? Then use a carbon pile tester(eg.Sun VAT 40,personal favorite),leave car running,wait til fan cycles off. Note charging voltage and amps at idle and raise rpm to 3500 and keeping an eye on voltage at the battery so it does not drop below 13.6 volts,load alternator with carbon pile to get max output reading by holding load on carbon pile til max reading stabilizes and note what it is to find actual alternator output.

Hot alternator output volts/amps is the real figure you're looking for and advertised rating on alternators is always higher than this. The 70 amp unit you have might be returning closer to 60 in the actual up to temp operating conditions.

I remember when you said an FC 70A was what you were running and i thought that may be borderline for what you needed. Reliability is a large factor when i alter electrical systems from oe by building in/adding hi draw components to what i'm working on. I know you want to track your car and drive it on the street and suppose you want to do so indefinitely.

Having done a considerable amount of mods to vehicles in the electrical system area,and though not actually seeing/working on your car,i think your alternator output and your system demands are too close to each other and this creates a scenario where the electrical system,particularly the alternator has no reserve and is running full tilt supplying its actual not rated output current and running in an overheat condition. Like everything else heat is the enemy of alternators and running flat out ages one prematurely.

An extreme example i can give from personal experience is an alternator on a truck i was working with carrying some serious offroad lighting ran the alternator so hot and close to its max output that it cooked the grease out of the drive bearing and locked up and shredded the serpentine belt=dead offroad 50 miles from everything. Another member of our party ran to town and got a reman alt to install and get home the next day. The fix for this particular vehicle involved building a custom alternator that at max draw of all system components was generating @ 65% of its actual heat soaked full carbon pile load test output of 248 amps. Proper output/ground cables completed the job and the alternator was actually cool enough in operation you could put your hand on it. 12 years as a dd and weekend offroad rig and that combo is still good.

An extreme example but highlights the heat issue from running close or at or over max output of alternator. A much more common heat related failure is a rectifier,specifically a diode(s) failure,followed by regulator failure. One of these two failed on your alternator,and even if it was a good quality reman alternator and being one of the brands i recommended i would think it was,replacing with another will likely fail again if running at full max to keep up.
Am visualizing a lot of start/stop/idling scenarios so far in cars/engines life in your build+dyno time and that cooling fan will have been a front runner in system draw during that time and tested alternator pretty good. I know you intend to run your cooling fan between track sessions to cool engine down afterwards and what it takes out of the battery to achieve that will have to come from the alternator on startup to put back into battery+ the load of all the components needed to run the car.

Again,not there,and no test figures yet but suspect you are very near or over the actual max hot output of alternator and another replacement reman or new alternator may suffer the same fate as may any off the shelf alternator at that amp rating. Possibly not as soon or maybe not a total outright failure. It takes only one pos or neg diode failure to kill off 1/3 of available generated current from alternator. Another aspect of failed diodes,not common but happens often enough to mention is discharged/constant undercharged/dead battery from diode leakage from 3-4 to full 12 volts on engine shutdown.Can drive you nuts trying to find source.
Having worked on a lot of repetitive low battery/dead battery complaints over the years,when doing a system draw test that showed considerable draw from battery,more than normal parasitic draw specs,i have learned to isolate the alternator from the rest of system while draw testing to eliminate failed or beginning to fail diode in alternator as cause early on to speed up diag process.

If testing for real system needs/hot alternator output results reveal you have no/not much charging reserve,consider further upgrading alternator output. A rule of thumb to get what you need(determined from max system load tests)+ a comfort margin to have some reserve is to double the factory rating for the vehicle in question. In your case with FC alt,look for 140 amp out put to give you what you need while only loading alternator at 65-70% in worst case scenarios guarantees a long life from alternator and all system accessories being kept happy by stable voltage/amperage supply. Some will say not necessary for that much power,for long term reliable operation with non stock components involved,experience has taught me more is better. A well built/balanced charging system will comfortably supply exactly what battery and electrical components need to operate correctly and no more,even though it has the capacity to generate more while running cool enough that heat is not a factor in longevity,just like an ignition coil supplies exactly what a plug needs to fire. This is almost never at the max the coil can develop voltage/current wise.

An example for an FB. On my SE,i run hi powered headlamps,with the possibility of an electric fan conversion in mind,not needed but in mind. The headlight upgrades alone took away all the reserve of alternator capacity of 60 amps resulting in dimming lights,slower wipers,slower blower speed and degraded rear defroster operation at idle. No dead battery issues but i hate the up/down voltage swings at idle and what it does to electrical components especially hi power halogen headlight bulbs lifespan.
.
An Fd alternator was my choice to upgrade system. 1st from it being a bolt on and not really looking out of place. 2nd the case is large enough to replace oe components(oe output is 90 amps) with more powerful and slightly larger aftermarket parts,bigger stator and larger rectifier that has larger diodes and a higher number of diodes and bigger heat sink to keep everything cool. Proper gauge wiring from alternator to battery and back,i did a 2nnd gen underhood fusebox upgrade at same time and modified fusebox to acceept a larger main fuse of 150 amps to accommodate alt output of expected 140 amps. Hot soak load testing showed real rating of 131 amps,a little more than twice original 60 amps rating that was actually @ 53 hot soak testing.
Dual alt belts mandatory for this type upgrade,added Banzai alt adjustment bracket kit for exact belt tension which is actually less needed tension than what's needed for single belt operation.

Results are cold charging battery voltage=14.8 volts,warm battery 14,4-14.5 at idle speed. All accessories on no lower than 14.2 volts at idle. Headlamps yet a tick brighter-no dimming,no change in any of electrical accessories at idle from cruise speed. All running lights brighter,power windows up/down noticeably faster. In dash voltmeter never dips below 14 volts. Should be plenty of system reserve for electric fan upgrade when/if desired and 2 empty slots in underhood fusebox to accomodate upgrade(s).

Chuyler, you can fit a larger stator into Fb,FC alt housings to give you more output,as high as 130-160 amps,but you only get that at higher rpms and slightly less at idle than oe stator. This scenario not ideal for what you want,you need stable voltage and more amps at idle for your ignition,FI and cooling fan.You cannot fit larger rectifier into FB,FC cases to up low rpm power generation,need to go to FD case or adapt a GM Cs series alternator(did this on a GSL) or a Mitsubishi alternator from late model Dodge product,both of which look more out of place in engine bay of your car.

Couple pics.
Old 04-28-19, 02:02 PM
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I'm not really taxing the alternator compared to an FC.

Electric Fan - doesn't really kick on, and cannot be to blame for the failure as it's been cool. I've had it on once or twice just to verify the temps it will turn on.

Wideband - this was working fine with old motor old alternator, it draws maybe 5a.

ECU - swapped out the old one for a new digital one. I don't have numbers to back this claim, but I suspect it actually draws less current.

Coils - these may pull a little more current than a stock FC ignition system, but I don't think it's enough to fry an alternator in under 1,000 miles.

Fuel pump - ok, this may draw more than a stock FC, but certainly not more than an aftermarket stereo.

Stereo - I replaced ancient dual class A/B amps with a low current draw class D so if anything, I'm saving power there.

I've been watching voltage like a hawk and it has been steady 13.7 in the ECU logs while driving around. Maybe I'll do some tests with various accessories at idle to see how it changes. I was also thinking of upgrading to lower draw LED headlamps.
Old 04-28-19, 02:12 PM
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Another question, while we're on the topic, could a failing battery cause the alternator to grenade itself? We drove around for 10 minutes before realizing we had a serious voltage issue. The battery is an Optima Red Top. It took an hour drive for the voltage to climb back up to 14 on the gauge after that incident. It's holding charge now and there is no issue starting, but I'm wondering if I need to look into replacing the battery. It's 3 years old now.
Old 04-28-19, 07:58 PM
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If you drain an Optima Red Top flat it can permanently kill the battery. Been there, done that. But it manifests as not being able to hold charge. I doubt it would kill the alternator but I suppose it's a possibility.

I'd be looking elsewhere first.

Apologies if you already addressed this and are aware of the issue, but have you made suitable wiring modifications to suit the L/S type alternator? If you have the S wire hooked to ignition like the factory FB setup, instead of steady battery positive, it will quickly kill the diodes in the alternator due to the alternator wanting to charge at 100% when the ignition is turned off (and therefore senses 0V).
Old 04-29-19, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chuyler1
Another question, while we're on the topic, could a failing battery cause the alternator to grenade itself? We drove around for 10 minutes before realizing we had a serious voltage issue. The battery is an Optima Red Top. It took an hour drive for the voltage to climb back up to 14 on the gauge after that incident. It's holding charge now and there is no issue starting, but I'm wondering if I need to look into replacing the battery. It's 3 years old now.
You mean after changing the defective alternator?
Again,not there,but barring any weird problem,likely reman alternator failure.
Get,or charge the battery properly and get it load tested.3 years is not a death sentence for a battery that is cared for. Battery in my SE is 18 years old. Battery in my Dodge Ramcharger is 15 years old. Both in great shape and no intentions of replacing.
Never purchased or had any optima batteries in anything i own. Some do well with them. I have come across more than a couple vehicles that had them and they were the cause of problems for which they were brought to me. In a lot of instances they weren't the initial problem but the poorly done or nonexistent mods to vehicle for lighting,stereos were and the batteries suffered as a result. Properly repaired electrical system and a fair amount of batteries were returned to service,those that had been run in a perpetual low charge state were damaged from that and they do get killed when run down and left depleted and doesn't take long for this,sometimes overnight. Lead acid batteries much more forgiving-and cheaper. Only time i'd consider using a specialty battery would be for bin,trunk mounting to not have to deal with acid or venting or for hi load stuff like electric winches.

The fact you had to drive around for an hour to get voltage to 14 is more a factor of how discharged the battery was-you probably operated the car with a failed alternator much longer than you thought. Really not a good idea to recharge a cars battery when so discharged with the alternator.There's not much else you can do to make them work that hard for an extended time,the heat thing again. More than a few alternators die shortly after owners get a jumpstart and let the alternator recharge the battery-they will but at a cost.Modern alternators and what it costs to replace them are big bucks.

When you have a near flat battery,be patient and give it a slow charge overnight. A good battery will be 100% in @12 hours and your alternator will thank you for it.

Last edited by GSLSEforme; 04-29-19 at 01:13 AM.
Old 04-29-19, 01:38 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by chuyler1
I'm not really taxing the alternator compared to an FC.

Electric Fan - doesn't really kick on, and cannot be to blame for the failure as it's been cool. I've had it on once or twice just to verify the temps it will turn on.

Wideband - this was working fine with old motor old alternator, it draws maybe 5a.

ECU - swapped out the old one for a new digital one. I don't have numbers to back this claim, but I suspect it actually draws less current.

Coils - these may pull a little more current than a stock FC ignition system, but I don't think it's enough to fry an alternator in under 1,000 miles.

Fuel pump - ok, this may draw more than a stock FC, but certainly not more than an aftermarket stereo.

Stereo - I replaced ancient dual class A/B amps with a low current draw class D so if anything, I'm saving power there.

I've been watching voltage like a hawk and it has been steady 13.7 in the ECU logs while driving around. Maybe I'll do some tests with various accessories at idle to see how it changes. I was also thinking of upgrading to lower draw LED headlamps.
Hey,not looking for an argument but in my above post note that an average FC alt is good for @60 amps when hot. Some bit more,some less.That's the real world amount of power you have to work with.
You don't really know what you need or what you have til you test it. Call it blueprinting your electrical system.
I've been surprised both ways when testing output on stated amp alternators-no two are same. Same way no two identical engines perform the same.
I like to see a minimum of constant 14.1,like to see steady 14.3 volts in systems,especially things modded for performance. Yep,only a little over a .5 volt difference,you'd be surprised how much difference it makes in things like fuel pumps,injectors,ig coils,spark energy. I have had customers i've advised to get a retune on their cars as increasing systems ability to hold a steady optimal minimum voltage changes the way the vehicle runs,and after retuned for the better,unanticipated horsepower,especially custom stuff. A lot of people discount this til you show them the light,lol.
Old 04-29-19, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KYPREO
Apologies if you already addressed this and are aware of the issue, but have you made suitable wiring modifications to suit the L/S type alternator? If you have the S wire hooked to ignition like the factory FB setup, instead of steady battery positive, it will quickly kill the diodes in the alternator due to the alternator wanting to charge at 100% when the ignition is turned off (and therefore senses 0V).
I was actually thinking about this last night. I know the later FD (S5-S6) alternators need to be wired directly to battery, but I thought all the alternators with the old style (S1-S4) connector were supposed to be connected the same way, to the ignition switch. Is that not the case? My connector looks like the S4 diagram here, and it's wired stock...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...77dcc22778.gif
Old 04-29-19, 01:19 PM
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Your alternator should have been plug and play.
No mods other than larger output wire.
Old 04-29-19, 10:29 PM
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Readings from the ECU log:
Cruising: 14.0 +/- 0.2
Idle 1,000RPM, nothing on, after driving around for a bit: 14.0 +/- 0.1
Idle with headlights: 13.7
Idle with everything including rear defroster, rear wiper, heater fan full tilt, high beams: 12.3

The rear defroster has always practically killed the electrical system, which is why I almost never use it. I can idle up the engine under low voltage conditions, and even configure some digital inputs to idle up when things like lights or defroster are on. I will experiment with that.

Tomorrow I'm going to drive to work and back with lights and fan on the whole time just as a stress test before I attempt to drive all the way to DGRR. That'll be 2 hours round trip with some traffic. If it survives, I think I'm ready.
Old 04-30-19, 05:46 PM
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Latest update: Alternator is charging well. It survived the drive to work in the rain with lights on, and the drive home in stop and go traffic. Realized even if I packed up another alternator I'd have no way of swapping pulleys, that requires an impact wrench and I don't have an electric one. Might pack it up anyway, will see.

I made some other changes to the tune related to idle and cruising to smooth things out. Just logging the info here for posterity.

Coasting off throttle
The car was running rough off throttle after 2 seconds (the timeout on the idle control page). I had the clutch digital inputs wrong. The clutch worked fine, but for some reason assigning the neutral switch to clutch as well doesn't work. I'm not sure what is going on there but I unset that input and that solved the IDL flag turning on while coasting. However, there is still an issue with the off throttle timing even after fixing the clutch switch issue. At 3,000 RPM, the timing map has a value of 17 degrees. When I lift off the throttle I see this value for about 2 seconds then I see 7 degrees and the car starts bucking. The IDL flag is not on in the ECU Data window. I don't understand why it is pulling the timing down. Ignition correction is set to open loop so that isn't a factor. Throttle-off overrun at the time was set to 3,200 RPM so that wasn't engaging either. Idle control band was 200 RPM, and "Do D immediately" and "Always do D on throttle off" were both unchecked. The speed sensor is configured and MVSS1 shows accurate speed and all gears are configured so it knows I'm rolling and in gear. I don't get it. The only solution I found was to lower throttle-off overrun to 1,200 RPM so it shuts off the system before this happens. I suppose that's fine and so far it appears to be working, the car just coasts without fuel and when I get back on the gas there is a minor hiccup and it's off and running again.

Idle
I lowered the idle control band from 400 down to 100. Not sure why it was 400, and I think that is why it kept stalling when I was coming to a stop. Now it seems to dip to 800-900RPM and quickly jump back up to 1,000 RPM. The idle control valve isn't really working. On cold starts it doesn't provide enough air to get the RPMs up to a save strong level. I have to keep my foot on the throttle for the first 5 minutes of driving. I'm not sure if it's the volume of air or the fuel mixture preventing the RPMs from rising, but I'm thinking there is just too much restriction in my vacuum lines to allow it to draw air in, plus the pulses between rotors are probably fighting each other. Perhaps two valves, one for each runner would work better, or a plenum to equalize the pressure....or I can just do it the oldschool way and hook up the choke cable. I'm leaning that direction right now.

Low Voltage Idle
Low voltage idle up was something else I played with, however Adaptronic doesn't consider the voltage low until it drops below 12v. That's not going to help me keep voltage between 13.7-14.0 at idle. The other method is to use the digital inputs and connect them to various accessories. I can add 100-200RPM to the target idle when one or more accessories are turned on. That's going to require digging around under the dash and running more wires so I may not bother with doing anything but perhaps hot wiring the A/C switch to serve as a fast idle switch or something.

AFRs
I need to do some more logging and see where I can make some improvements in the cruising cells. They did a good job on the dyno but I still see the closed loop trim % hunting a little, especially low load higher RPM cells.

Transients
Transient throttle is actually pretty good right now. They did a great job dialing that in. Looking at the log I see a little bit of movement in AFRs when I first lift off the throttle, but if I'm going through the gears I don't feel any hiccups. The motor is pretty peaky though and I can't spend a lot of time at high RPM open throttle without getting in trouble.
Old 05-08-19, 02:53 PM
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Well I'm back from Deals Gap and I have a list of things to address.

Oil Consumption
The engine is sucking down about 1/2 quart every 300 miles which is too much and the rear bumper above the exhaust shows significant oil burn. My thoughts on the matter are that it could be one of the following: The OMP lines are too large in diameter, it could be sucking extra oil from the OMP lines under high vacuum, the Racing Beat oil pan baffle could be messing with oil draining properly (doubtful but it is a change I made that is non-factory) or worst case there is a seal problem. I think I'm going to run a tank of premix and at the same time pump the oil into a separate can (soda bottle or something) so I can measure how much oil my linkage is actually measuring out and whether that changes the oil consumption from the oil pan. I've poked around the engine bay, which is still clean, and haven't seen any large splatter of oil, so I don't think I have a leaking line, oil cooler, or anything of that sort.

Intake Air Temps
I think this was an issue throughout the trip. The sensor reads high and I have not calibrated it, but i know it reads about 85F when the car is cold and ambient temps are 60F. I saw temps as high as 145F in the log. I'm definitely losing power to hot air and I need to figure out a solution. It will likely involve a new intake manifold or relocating the battery for me to fit a decent intake duct and air filter.

AFRs and Gas Mileage
I was getting consistent 23mpg across New England, Pennsylvania and Virginia on the trip. Mileage was worse in North Carolina and I didn't even calculate it for the days we were making dragon runs. The AFRs while cruising on the highway were high (15-16) but it ran OK. I was afraid to mess with the tune on the trip but when I got home I used Megalog viewer to see which cells needed more fuel and how much by charting the trim levels. I have a new fuel map I am going to try on the next drive.

Voltage
As @GSLSEforme mentioned, 70a is really not enough for what I am trying to do. The fan requires too much current. The fan running at a moderate speed will drop the voltage to 13. If the fan needs to run at high speed, or I need to run lights and wipers, the voltage drops below 12.0 at 1,000 RPM idle. Bump the RPM to 1,500 and it can hold 12.5-13.0v. This is low on the list of things to resolve, as the fan is only needed for stop and go traffic, and I can limp along by keeping the revs up.

Idle
Still a few issues coming into idle, but I think it's related to closed loop settings and my cruising cells being set to lean. I'm hoping that boosting the fuel in those cells will get the closed loop trim closer to 0, and help with those times that I just push the clutch in and lift off the throttle. Cold start idle doesn't work. The idle control valve (aka vacuum solenoid) may be fine for boosting idle on a 1.6L 4AGE but it doesn't seem to work on a rotary. I get at best 100 RPM out of it. I think I need larger barbs to the intake with possibly separate valves for each runner to boost idle to 1,500-2,000 on cold starts. Honestly, I think it might be best to just look into drive-by-wire. Jenvey sells a motor for this throttle body. I don't think it's cheap, but if I can tip it open on cold starts that would help. Another option I've thought about was reconnecting the choke cable. I need to figure something out so I stop pondering all the options.

Transients
All the throttle movements below 4,000RPM are spot on. It feels great and I don't get any hiccups. At around 6,000RPM, things aren't quite right and lifting off is rough, and getting back on has a dead spot. I need to log and mess with the predictive map table to see if I can clean that up.

That's about it. I survived a 2,500 mile road trip, had a blast, and didn't have any major issues! I'll share some photos and video later.
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Toruki (05-10-19)
Old 05-10-19, 09:40 PM
  #169  
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I don't know if its been mentioned but you are running a cog belt for your alternator.... Is it underdrivin?


And I'm no OMP expert, but when I plugged my OMP tubes on my Nikki they were NOT in a place that experienced vacuum at all. The stock location is above the venturies and it just dribbles down in the carb. If you have vacuum on your OMP inlets and a 12A style OMP you might be sucking too much oil because of this. That being said my OMP on my car is the jug of 2 stroke oil in the trunk. LOL



EDIT: and do re-test that glass mat battery. Lots of people who "test batteries" don't know what they are doing (I work in a shop with typical moron grease monkeys). You need to set the tester for a spiral AGM to get it to read correctly. I've noticed that if an AGM ever goes flat; that's it time to get a new one.

Last edited by Qingdao; 05-10-19 at 09:45 PM.
Old 05-11-19, 10:08 AM
  #170  
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This is true of AGM batteries in bikes too,even giving them a long slow charge,if they come back at all they may have @60% of rated cca and no reserve to speak of. Basically workbench test batteries. Also handy for weight to keep glued pieces together til adhesive sets up,make good doorstops too.
Most of my customers bikes have been fitted with battery tenders and I tell them unless you’re riding it- leave it plugged in.Even if battery seriously run down from extended cranking from no start,24 hrs on tender will have battery 100%. Religious use of tender easily doubles life of battery.
Left in that run down condition for even a week is the end of that battery.
Old 05-11-19, 11:38 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by chuyler1
Coasting off throttle

Idle
Now it seems to dip to 800-900RPM and quickly jump back up to 1,000 RPM.
just a couple of suggestions, Mazda has tried a bunch of strategies over the years...

Idle: you might try adding a little fuel under the target idle speed, it seems to help. also Mazda's 89+ strategy uses timing to control the idle speed, so at the target speed the timing is, we'll say zero, and if speed goes down, timing increases, if speed goes up timing goes down (+/-5 degrees). also the 89-2003 cars stay in open loop until 1200rpm, it was partly a hardware limitation, but its also more stable.

Coasting, this can be tricky, but Mazda turns fuel back on at about 1750rpm, and they only turn on one rotor at first. Mazda advances the timing, and i'm not really sure why, in fuel cut it shouldn't matter, but that is what they do. sometimes it helps to move the rpm where fuel cut turns on higher, and gradually lower it as you try stuff.

Originally Posted by chuyler1
That's about it. I survived a 2,500 mile road trip, had a blast, and didn't have any major issues! I'll share some photos and video later.
that is the important part! very cool
Old 05-11-19, 12:40 PM
  #172  
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The OMP doesn't work off vacuum. It's driven from a gear and the amount determined from the RPMs and OMP lever position. If anything, larger lines would mean less oil delivery because the OMP has to fill the tube volume.

Excessive oil in the exhaust can be a symptom of bad oil control rings.
Old 05-11-19, 12:46 PM
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I'm aware of how it is supposed to work, but I'm wondering if the high vacuum applied to the lines (which on this model of pump are not designed to see vacuum) would cause excessive suction. Anyway, I'm disconnecting the lines and running a tank of premix to rule that out. If it's control rings, I need to get the engine builder involved.
Old 05-11-19, 09:57 PM
  #174  
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If you want to post a log I'll look.

Are you using the air bleed screws to set idle? That didn't work for me at all, the car wouldn't start and stay running pretty much ever. I had to close them and crack the throttle plates open to get Any kind of usable cold idle and starting at any temp.

If you need more volts/amps there is a bolt in 150 amp suby alternator that I've had good success with.

j9fd3s mentioned the idle strategy I use. I took some screenshots of my closed loop idle controls and timing table.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...CP?usp=sharing

Last edited by mikey D; 05-11-19 at 10:28 PM. Reason: more stuff
Old 05-11-19, 10:31 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by mikey D
If you need more volts/amps there is a bolt in 150 amp suby alternator that I've had good success with.

Are yall sure that belt combo is not under driving the alternator?


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