81 custom widebody
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
6 banger
You know I would have never considered a V6 but you guys have a great argument. I drove a 2000 Grand AM GT for a week. That thing would haul and it's way heavier, front wheel drive and an automatic. I built a buick for a buddy a long time ago that he dropped it in a vega. Ford 9in rear and that thing would turn 11's right off the street. I must look into this more carefully.
I see lots of benefits to this. Lighter, more compact. Better weight distribution. Do you know of a website or book that would help me understand how to install this combo in a 1st Gen? I know nothing about fuel injection.
I have a friend that has a later model WC T-5 he bought for a swap but wanted the GM bolt pattern. I can get it for really cheap.
Thanks
I see lots of benefits to this. Lighter, more compact. Better weight distribution. Do you know of a website or book that would help me understand how to install this combo in a 1st Gen? I know nothing about fuel injection.
I have a friend that has a later model WC T-5 he bought for a swap but wanted the GM bolt pattern. I can get it for really cheap.
Thanks
99-02 3800 series 2 s/c engine from grand prix, bonneville, monte etc etc, camaro clutch/flywheel, 2.8/3.4 Camaro bellhousing re-drilled for ford WC-t5. Why Ford wc-t5? because it's vertical and not listing to one side.
Modern 3800's are ultra reliable, good fuel economy, cheap to buy, easy to find, LOTS of aftermarket support, uses standard GM PCM that you can find anywhere and which means a stand alone, self learning fuel injection is a matter of gathering a few wires together. Bone stock engines are 240hp (n/a) and 260hp (s/c) right out of the box. S/C engines can easily get to 400hp with a little love.
Note: I purposely left out 96-98 and 03+ engines. Their computers and wiring harnesses aren't as nice to work with and for all intensive purposes, are different engines except for block and heads!
Actually a 04+ Series 3 S/C engines (more cash) are really good choices. Just run them with 99-02 harnesses and related sensors etc.
Modern 3800's are ultra reliable, good fuel economy, cheap to buy, easy to find, LOTS of aftermarket support, uses standard GM PCM that you can find anywhere and which means a stand alone, self learning fuel injection is a matter of gathering a few wires together. Bone stock engines are 240hp (n/a) and 260hp (s/c) right out of the box. S/C engines can easily get to 400hp with a little love.
Note: I purposely left out 96-98 and 03+ engines. Their computers and wiring harnesses aren't as nice to work with and for all intensive purposes, are different engines except for block and heads!
Actually a 04+ Series 3 S/C engines (more cash) are really good choices. Just run them with 99-02 harnesses and related sensors etc.
Since you have a 2nd gen subframe, you can get the late model 3800 swap kit from granny's or just make them yourself. They are easy to make and it's obvious you like to fab! 
If you get a 99-02 harness and computer, wiring is as easy as gathering the pink wires, fusing the important ones, and connect to constant power, switched power, fuel pump relay ground wire and a main chassis ground. That's it...4 wires (unless you decide to fuse a bunch of circuits)!
For fuel, i can't remember if a first gen has a return. If not, you can either put a return in, and use the 3800's fuel rail regulator...or...run a returnless type setup with a WIX Fuel filter FPR combo for a 98-2002 corvette.
Tuning, you can use HP tuners, DHP etc etc etc to tune the car. You will need to remove VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) codes in the computer to make the car run.
If you get a 99-02 harness and computer, wiring is as easy as gathering the pink wires, fusing the important ones, and connect to constant power, switched power, fuel pump relay ground wire and a main chassis ground. That's it...4 wires (unless you decide to fuse a bunch of circuits)!
For fuel, i can't remember if a first gen has a return. If not, you can either put a return in, and use the 3800's fuel rail regulator...or...run a returnless type setup with a WIX Fuel filter FPR combo for a 98-2002 corvette.
Tuning, you can use HP tuners, DHP etc etc etc to tune the car. You will need to remove VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) codes in the computer to make the car run.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
Strut Towers
Well. I got the parts cut out for the first side, formed, fitted and started welding. They are 2in tall and will require some monor hood mods to fit. Now I get to do the other side.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
cutting
Well, since I don't have a plasma cutter, I use thin cutoff wheels on my 4 1/2 in grinder. In my opinion, Norton makes the thinnest. Harbor freight sells the cheapest though.
I cut mine just where it rounds into the sides. Good luck!
I cut mine just where it rounds into the sides. Good luck!
Yeah I don't have a plasma cutter either. I was thinking of cutting almost all the way through before welding the new on on, that way I only have a few quick cuts from the underside to actually get the old one out. It'll be a tight fit for my angle grinder...
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
strut tops
I angled the back piece to help clear the hood. I'm still going to have to cut some reliefs in the hood reinforcement. I'd say you can go an inch without hitting.
Good luck!
That makes sense, I'll have to take some measurements to see how tall I want/need to make it for everything to work on my setup. Ideally I'd like to be able to leave the spring perch where it is on the FC strut body, then I just have to weld the FB strut tube inside it and I'm done. On my current setup I had to lower the perch for the ride height to be correct, but the tire is really close to the spring and the strut is compressed a fair amount.
In the end if I need to go with a FC coil over setup then I will, but I'd like to continue using the FB strut and spring if I can...
In the end if I need to go with a FC coil over setup then I will, but I'd like to continue using the FB strut and spring if I can...
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
welding..............
I am actually looking forward to bodywork.
I got the strut tops done. The FC subframe is in. I still have to weld mounts on for the swaybar, but......later.
I got a World Class T-5 for 200 bucks so I'm set for the trans. Now I have to seriously search and find an engine. I'm going to build a mild V6. Plenty of power potential, lighter than a V8 and short enough to fit almost entirely behind the front axle. A 3:90 rear LSD and the T-5. It will be light, fun little car.
I got the strut tops done. The FC subframe is in. I still have to weld mounts on for the swaybar, but......later.
I got a World Class T-5 for 200 bucks so I'm set for the trans. Now I have to seriously search and find an engine. I'm going to build a mild V6. Plenty of power potential, lighter than a V8 and short enough to fit almost entirely behind the front axle. A 3:90 rear LSD and the T-5. It will be light, fun little car.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
suspension
It has a rack and pinion! It's sitting on the bumpstops and it has just enough clearance. You can see how much it interferes with the hood. That's manageable.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
motor
I have gone round and round about which motor to go with. Honestly, I'm leaning toward a carb'd 4.3 V6. I just don't feel like messing with the electronics or the fuel delivery of a fuel injected setup right now.
I have the transmission now I have to find a motor.
I have the transmission now I have to find a motor.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 129
Likes: 8
From: washington
rk
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
trans
They did and it is but I'm going to redrill the bellhousing. They make aftermarket bellhousings with both patterns but I'm cheap! A fried of mine simply drilled his and bolted the trans and bellhousing together. I don't like this idea however because it makes it tough to pull the trans without unbolting the the bellhousing. I'm going to drill and heli-coil it. Guess I can then use any t-5 I want!
Yep, carb all the way. That should be a good combination.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
motor
There are millions of them out there. I actually have to get the block from 88-91 and the heads from a 96 up. I have a pull and pay 10 minutes from my house which helps.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 453
Likes: 7
From: Greater Cincinnati
Bodywork
Didn't want to bore you guys with bodywork. I have been working on it everyday and will continue until it's done! I am taking vacation in 2 weeks and I plan on getting the engine and heads over that week.
Still have a lot to do.
Still have a lot to do.