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Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion

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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 12:36 PM
  #3001  
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Originally Posted by bewtew
I've heard some nightmares about CFT but as long as jesus is the one tunning the car and he is just there for their dyno then no worries. let me know when you heading down to pick it up i would love to check it out and maybe go for a spin.

warning signs, have you driven the car? i saw it at jesus and the car looks very nice, except for the way the swap was done. the engine sits like 3-4 inches back and it looks kinda weird.. other than that the car looks very clean.
Jesus will be in control so I am not worried. I too have heard bad things.
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 02:36 PM
  #3002  
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Originally Posted by gmonsen
bewtew... There are several ways of doing the swap. After the original problems with the first FD conversions were understood, a few cars were converted with the engine moved back as you say 3-4 or even 6 inches to clear the rack and allow the motor to sit much lower. Chris Carlisi's car, Phil Hamlin's, and a few Pettit cars were done this way. It was done to eliminate bumpsteer, lower the CG, clear the steering rack, and move the weight closer to the cockpit/center of the car. It meant the fabbing of a custom subframe, cutting the driveshaft and rebalancing, and dealing with the shifter moving back.

However, the result, when done well, is probably the "best" way to accomplish the conversion. Handling stays very close to stock or stock. Logan's solutions seem to address many of the same issues in a much, much less complex and costly manner and only give up a tad, if any, of the handling characteristics.

Point being, the car with the motor back and down is the right way to do it, if not the most common and if the most expensive...

Gordon
With this one Gordon it is a little different than what Chris and others did. The engine sits back further but it is not any lower and the ones I have seen sit back further and are lower. BTW, I am not aware of any Pettit cars that moved the engine back. All used the RX7 Specialties subframe and the Pettit bump steer kit (aka cut and rewelded spindles). I haven't seen them all but I have seen most including how mine started out

With the one at Kilo's it is going to need a bump steer correction kit at least as I understand it. Jesus was speaking to me about that while I was there on Tuesday. Isn't the someone on the forum that makes a bump steer kit now that doesn't require rewelding? I think I saw this at Gotham but I can't remember. It's a nice car though and pulls nice and hard under throttle, especially with the twins installed. Nice low end torque.

Mini Update: Success! The car now holds 14 PSI at low boost and 18 PSI at high. The car is street tuned now for both but unfortunately the dyno at CFT got taken out by a lightening strike yesterday so no dynoing for now. The two other dynos near Kilo are shut down for the rest of the week because the owners are driving to NJ for racing which is where Jesus is headed tomorrow night.

So, I am going to pick up the car tomorrow at 10 am-ish! Jesus has to replace the coolant sensor and he's taking apart the TPS to inspect because it is acting up periodically. He still has an alternator issue but we'll figure that out tomorrow. If he can't source one, I'm getting an upgraded one from Ihor. I'll go back next week to take it to the dyno.
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 03:56 PM
  #3003  
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Originally Posted by bewtew
I've heard some nightmares about CFT but as long as jesus is the one tunning the car and he is just there for their dyno then no worries. let me know when you heading down to pick it up i would love to check it out and maybe go for a spin.

warning signs, have you driven the car? i saw it at jesus and the car looks very nice, except for the way the swap was done. the engine sits like 3-4 inches back and it looks kinda weird.. other than that the car looks very clean.

I did not drive the car, but was taken for a ride in it by Mark. Didn't want to spoil his fun after seeing/driving his car for the first time in a while. Everything seems to be in check with it, and yes I was told about the engine sitting back a few inches. Swap was done by Autotech in California as far as I know, and this is the way they prefer it over there. It's supposed to make the front/rear weight ratio more like stock. I haven't been able to verify it, but it shouldn't be a problem either way. I'll have plenty of time to drive it on the way back to my house. It's around 3 to 3 1/2 hours of driving south, turnpike the entire way. I will probably update with my own thread once I get it back here.
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 03:59 PM
  #3004  
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Originally Posted by Warningsigns
I did not drive the car, but was taken for a ride in it by Mark. Didn't want to spoil his fun after seeing/driving his car for the first time in a while. Everything seems to be in check with it, and yes I was told about the engine sitting back a few inches. Swap was done by Autotech in California as far as I know, and this is the way they prefer it over there. It's supposed to make the front/rear weight ratio more like stock. I haven't been able to verify it, but it shouldn't be a problem either way. I'll have plenty of time to drive it on the way back to my house. It's around 3 to 3 1/2 hours of driving south, turnpike the entire way. I will probably update with my own thread once I get it back here.
The engine location is not a negative and can be very positive with the weight further back. I think the only negative was it was so far back, it made it difficult to remove the UIM? Could remember this wrong though. I would drive and check for bump steer and if you have this problem, there is a fix anyway.

It is a 20B man, enjoy!
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 04:42 PM
  #3005  
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Talking what next

So my question is David, once you get it, and it's like you want it (I won't say done so I don't jinx you) have any other plans for it, other than driving it?
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 05:19 PM
  #3006  
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Originally Posted by cpnneeda
So my question is David, once you get it, and it's like you want it (I won't say done so I don't jinx you) have any other plans for it, other than driving it?
Autocross. Learn how to drive it Polish it, wax it, and pamper it.
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 06:47 PM
  #3007  
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Hey, I'm Mark with the Red RX7 that warningsigns is about to buy, David you are correct in the fact that the engine position makes it a "little" more difficult to remove the UIM but other than that there seems to be no other issues. Got to say that the car runs a heck of a lot better since Jesus tuned it and fixed a couple vacuum leaks, it is a totally different car now.
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Old Jul 16, 2009 | 09:03 PM
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What ECU are you running?

Originally Posted by RX7FAN01
Hey, I'm Mark with the Red RX7 that warningsigns is about to buy, David you are correct in the fact that the engine position makes it a "little" more difficult to remove the UIM but other than that there seems to be no other issues. Got to say that the car runs a heck of a lot better since Jesus tuned it and fixed a couple vacuum leaks, it is a totally different car now.
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 05:13 AM
  #3009  
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Originally Posted by RX7FAN01
Hey, I'm Mark with the Red RX7 that warningsigns is about to buy, David you are correct in the fact that the engine position makes it a "little" more difficult to remove the UIM but other than that there seems to be no other issues. Got to say that the car runs a heck of a lot better since Jesus tuned it and fixed a couple vacuum leaks, it is a totally different car now.
Jesus said it ran great. He was very impressed.
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 05:16 AM
  #3010  
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Originally Posted by 20B-Power
What ECU are you running?
We both run Microtechs I believe. I have a LTX-12S
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 11:28 AM
  #3011  
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I don't think Jesus would work with anything less. I have a 13B 3rd gen with an AEM in it and Jesus has been telling me to change to Microtech on that one as well. :-) , maybe I'll bite the bullet and do it soon :-)
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 11:58 AM
  #3012  
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are you having any issues with the msd under the manifold?
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 04:52 PM
  #3013  
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Originally Posted by BuffDaddy915
are you having any issues with the msd under the manifold?
No, they work very well.
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 05:39 PM
  #3014  
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Made it home nice safe and sound Time to pamper the FD.
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Old Jul 17, 2009 | 08:12 PM
  #3015  
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that's good to hear dave
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Old Jul 18, 2009 | 04:38 PM
  #3016  
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Originally Posted by David Hayes
Autocross. Learn how to drive it Polish it, wax it, and pamper it.
Sounds like a GREAT plan.

You thought modding a car is fun, wait till you can make the car really work.

Dave
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Old Jul 18, 2009 | 05:07 PM
  #3017  
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I am glad you got everything worked out with the 20B, David. Wish I could have seen it last weekend but I ended up getting that job in Atlanta so I am up here until the end of August. Then I am relocating to West Palm Beach! Hopefully my 20B swap will be done in 3-4 years.........
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 01:48 AM
  #3018  
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Hello guys!

I own an FD with a full 20B conversion and a single turbonetics GTK 850 with microtech LTX-12. I have no one to Share the joy as well as any tech questions about the swap. I am a junior in this rx world so I have much to learn. I only wanted to verify the temp at which the car should be running at. Presently when it gets to 94C (degrees celsius) the fans kick in and stop until temp goes down to 88C.

Thank you guys for your help!!

Andrew Kanho
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 05:46 AM
  #3019  
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Originally Posted by Kanho
Hello guys!

I own an FD with a full 20B conversion and a single turbonetics GTK 850 with microtech LTX-12. I have no one to Share the joy as well as any tech questions about the swap. I am a junior in this rx world so I have much to learn. I only wanted to verify the temp at which the car should be running at. Presently when it gets to 94C (degrees celsius) the fans kick in and stop until temp goes down to 88C.

Thank you guys for your help!!

Andrew Kanho
Congrats on the 20B and welcome! You can share your info here anytime. As for your water temps those are good. I am assuming your Microtech turns on the fans at 94C so I think you are fine.
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 10:53 AM
  #3020  
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by David Hayes
Congrats on the 20B and welcome! You can share your info here anytime. As for your water temps those are good. I am assuming your Microtech turns on the fans at 94C so I think you are fine.
Thank you!! And yes it is the microtech that turns on the fans at 94C. I can even turn them on manually. By the way any of you gentlemen going to the Carlisi memorial??
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 10:54 AM
  #3021  
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Originally Posted by Kanho
Hello guys!

I own an FD with a full 20B conversion and a single turbonetics GTK 850 with microtech LTX-12. I have no one to Share the joy as well as any tech questions about the swap. I am a junior in this rx world so I have much to learn. I only wanted to verify the temp at which the car should be running at. Presently when it gets to 94C (degrees celsius) the fans kick in and stop until temp goes down to 88C.

Thank you guys for your help!!

Andrew Kanho
thats not dangerous, but i would deffinately have them come on earlier. more like 84-86 range.
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 12:47 PM
  #3022  
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Originally Posted by Kanho
Thank you!! And yes it is the microtech that turns on the fans at 94C. I can even turn them on manually. By the way any of you gentlemen going to the Carlisi memorial??
As others have pointed out, I would set the fans to come on at 90c or so. Where I am having them come on at 85 would have them on all the time. Regarding the Carlisi event, maybe if it all works out. I'm trying to arrange for a trailer for the FD and I have a few appointments to reschedule so we'll see.
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 02:28 PM
  #3023  
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Originally Posted by David Hayes
As others have pointed out, I would set the fans to come on at 90c or so. Where I am having them come on at 85 would have them on all the time. Regarding the Carlisi event, maybe if it all works out. I'm trying to arrange for a trailer for the FD and I have a few appointments to reschedule so we'll see.
I'm checking to see if I can get a group from Montreal to come down to PA.

On another note, I wanted to know what is the best coolant that can be used for our engine and heat loads. I read on some posts something called Eduards if I'm not mistaken. Is there any thing special with the 20B to consider when bleading the coolant system? How many litters or gallons should I expect to consume? I plan to have 40/60 (antifreeze/distilled water) with a 3inch thick Koyo rad. Also, my set-up has the intercooler sitting in front then I have the rad behind it but sitting on a 45 degree angle with two 12 inch fans stuck to it. I have the plastic from the front bumper that runs all along the bottom of the engine bay all the way to the oil pan. I was thinking to add some vents on the platic at the bottom of the front end of the car right under the rad to force the air flow through it as I drive? Something small not to create some sort of lift of the hood. Is it a bad idea? I believe the best senario is V-Mount, but would my solution still be reliable?

Thanks guys!
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 04:09 PM
  #3024  
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David,

Where are you hiding the control boxes for the PLX sensors? I currently have a DM-200 with only AFR displayed. Plan on adding egt's but was looking for a good idea on mounting and hiding the control boxes. Thanks

Brian
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Old Jul 20, 2009 | 04:17 PM
  #3025  
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Originally Posted by bzwigart
David,

Where are you hiding the control boxes for the PLX sensors? I currently have a DM-200 with only AFR displayed. Plan on adding egt's but was looking for a good idea on mounting and hiding the control boxes. Thanks

Brian
My recommendation is that you put them in one of the bins behind the seats. You could easily fab up a bracket for them and they do all connect together also.

Mine are located under the driver's side carpet. We cut out some of the foam under the carpet to install them so they all lie flat and they don't create a hump. At the time of the install, I had numerous other electrical devices in the bins so the bins were not available. The under the carpet location is fine just don't think it would be my first choice of a location.
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