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Kilo Racing 3 Rotor FD Conversion

Old Mar 10, 2009 | 07:05 PM
  #2801  
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265s on the front and 315s on the rear. 18 inch wheels.
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Old Mar 10, 2009 | 07:31 PM
  #2802  
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Woops, got you mixed up with Allrotor...Anyway's congrats David, so now that your Saga has ended, what's next?....LOL...
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Old Mar 10, 2009 | 11:32 PM
  #2803  
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David, thanks for the plate! I'm inspired now..
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 01:57 AM
  #2804  
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Just want to say congrats on sticking with the project where 99% of people would have given up. Enjoy the car!

With respect to tires...

Are your PS2's really old or something? They should be able to handle that much power. Guys in the One Lap had 600-700hp cars on PS2's and they were not spinning them all over the place.

Also, what's the weather like down there right now? Those tires will not like sub 40 degree temps *at all*. Might as well be made of stone below that temp. Even if it's 50-60 presently as the outside temp (and road surface temp) comes up they will definitely gain grip. Same goes for driving, if you get out and get them warmed up on some cloverleafs they will definitely come up in temp and consequently, grip.

Other tires to consider: Yokohama Advan Neova AD07s if you can get the correct size for the rear. They are as close to as r-comp as you will get in the dry out of a street tire. They also will want some heat to get grippy, and they are not the best ijn the wet. R888s or Nitto NT-01s would be your next option up, but they are R-Comps so they need considerable heat to start to get adhesive grip, and they will wear alot more and not be quite as good in the rain (especially when you start to wear them down into the good dry rubber.)

Interesting thing to note: getting wider rear tires does not help with longitudinal grip, because they stretch the contact patch out wider. I have a link somewhere I migh be able to dig up that describes this principle in physics terms if someone is interested. What you want for longitudinal grip (if you mainly want to be able to not spin the tires while going straight) then a narrower longer contact patch is desired. So you get narrower tires and run them lower pressure.

In either case rubber compound is still very important, and getting proper tire pressure and temp are going to help you out alot as well.

Originally Posted by David Hayes
The 20B is definitely different because of the extra torque that is available so the car really launches with ease. From my "spirited drives" over the past two days, I really can't control the car if I use more than 40% throttle. The wheels break loose in all the gears I've tried (1-4). Haven't done this in 5th gear as I am a little afraid of romping on the car at that speed.

It is a lot of fun though. Left my condo building the other day, turned left and hit the throttle a bit. Did some very nice drifting action Found a good back road (off of 9A for those of you in Jax) and went through gears 1-4 and found that anything over 40% the wheels would start to break loose. I'm also running 12 inch rear tires so that is pretty impressive. If you slowly roll into the throttle you can use the power without spinning the wheels but it is not as fun

This is at 525 WHP and 14 PSI at 6,800 RPMs. I would think if we ran the dyno all the way up to redline, this would equate to 550-560 WHP but maybe someone can look at the dyno I posted and extrapolate the info. It's a straight line up so it shouldn't be too difficult.

I will someday turn up the boost a bit but only to dyno the car so I can have bragging rights. After a few driving lessons maybe I can use the power but not now.
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 06:09 AM
  #2805  
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Originally Posted by Kilito Racing
David, thanks for the plate! I'm inspired now..
Looks sweet doesn't it? The plate was from a group buy several years ago. Put it on your car and we'll match. As your dad would say, finish up the degree and then you can buy lots of cool stuff for the car
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 06:11 AM
  #2806  
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Originally Posted by hwnd
If using the OEM wheel sensors, we can build traction control.
my AEM and Pi ECU are setup to use the boost controller solenoid(s) to lower / decrease wheel spin. This is something C and I were *very* interested in wiring up.
Sadly the SQ6 is still pending but the AEM was almost a 45min deal to setup. It sucks with TC on to be honest, makes me too comfy/confident in my poor ability.
Interesting. I wonder if Microtech has a similar feature? Anyone know if the LTX-12s can handle something like this?
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 06:15 AM
  #2807  
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Originally Posted by GooRoo
Just want to say congrats on sticking with the project where 99% of people would have given up. Enjoy the car!

With respect to tires...

Are your PS2's really old or something? They should be able to handle that much power. Guys in the One Lap had 600-700hp cars on PS2's and they were not spinning them all over the place.

Also, what's the weather like down there right now? Those tires will not like sub 40 degree temps *at all*. Might as well be made of stone below that temp. Even if it's 50-60 presently as the outside temp (and road surface temp) comes up they will definitely gain grip. Same goes for driving, if you get out and get them warmed up on some cloverleafs they will definitely come up in temp and consequently, grip.
Well, it is Florida so it is getting pretty warm. It's in the 80s now. It was a bit cooler when I went out for the spirited drive but it was probably 65 or so which I think would be plenty warm. I didn't warm up the tires as in a burn out or anything, just romped on it.

As for the age of the tires, you may be on to something. They were put on the car about 4 years ago and have not been used much as the car has been undergoing the conversion so maybe they've hardened up a bit.

I read recently about the testing of the new Yokohama's and the magazine (can't remember which) said they were the best tires they have ever tested for grip and performance. Called them game changers.
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 09:42 AM
  #2808  
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how about adding a racelogic system to this?
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 09:48 AM
  #2809  
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Originally Posted by neit_jnf
how about adding a racelogic system to this?
I conveniently have dean's racelogic setup for sale too.
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Old Mar 11, 2009 | 12:11 PM
  #2810  
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[QUOTE=David Hayes;9034523]Well, it is Florida so it is getting pretty warm. It's in the 80s now. It was a bit cooler when I went out for the spirited drive but it was probably 65 or so which I think would be plenty warm. I didn't warm up the tires as in a burn out or anything, just romped on it.

As for the age of the tires, you may be on to something. They were put on the car about 4 years ago and have not been used much as the car has been undergoing the conversion so maybe they've hardened up a bit.

QUOTE] If those tire have been on your car for 4yrs then the chances are good that they probably are older then that . Tires are made and then thrown on a shelf until someone purchases them. who knows how long they sat until you picked them up. Some tires, not sure if all, have a manufacture date on them somewhere. once the rubber gets older from the date they were produced they get dry and start to get harder. The Michelin PS2's are great tires for your car, I wouldn't think you would need much more then that, but I could be wrong.
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 04:45 PM
  #2811  
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David what do you think about a Kaaz lsd for your FD? Do you think you could benefit from it being used on your car?
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 04:54 PM
  #2812  
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The kaaz will only help if David decides to start seriously drag racing his car, as far as I know.

I think an S4 TII diff would be perfect for his car if/when the torsen dies on him.
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 05:05 PM
  #2813  
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yup...335 PS2s on my wheels forsale

just have to find someone to buy them now lol

on a side note, my car is running and ready for me to pick up. dyno next thursday wheeeeeeeeee
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 06:34 PM
  #2814  
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
The kaaz will only help if David decides to start seriously drag racing his car, as far as I know.

I think an S4 TII diff would be perfect for his car if/when the torsen dies on him.
Well I its not just used for drag, it is really great for road courses as well. On the other hand though, I am not sure how well it performs on the street, but with as much power he is putting down and the tires spinning, I would think it would only help. Now, I don't know how he drives. If David only drives "spirited" in a striaght line, then the Kaaz would probably have no benefit to him. The way I understand it is power is transfered to the wheel moving the fastest, if one wheel is struggling for traction, it will get all the power. This means it is easy to spin a wheel and once spinning, all power will be lost to the other wheel. This will make it difficult to get power to the road when accelerating hard no matter what tires are used. It could perhaps become unstable during hard acceleration.
A Kaaz LSD eliminates this by locking the wheels together when power is put down. It will give the wheel in the corner better traction under acceleration, more stable acceleration and power to all the driven wheels in a corner. This will allow the driver an opportunity for a better exit speed. I would think that the Kaaz lsd would provide a stable platform with better ability to get power to the road, which really means a faster FD! Now I could be wrong, not really knowing how he drives but it would seem to be a good fit for Davids fd....... not that you don't know the above Rich, I did not know the difference between the stock torsen and the Kaaz. wouldn't the Kaaz be better? how do they compare?
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 06:41 PM
  #2815  
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clunk clunk clunk clunk
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Old Mar 12, 2009 | 11:24 PM
  #2816  
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
clunk clunk clunk clunk
Kaaz has new clutchplates for about 2 years now, no more clunk clunk clunk

Anthony
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 01:46 AM
  #2817  
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I had the kaaz 1.5 way diff on one of my drift 240's, the only time i noticed it to clunk was when making 90 degree turns at low speeds (under 10mph) - any other time and it never clunked -- the power transfer was very even to both wheels
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 06:01 AM
  #2818  
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I'll be fine guys. My spirited driving is in both straight and corners. Too much fun not to punch it a little under both scenarios.

A forum member (and BMW and Porsche driving instructor) has offered to teach me to drive and I plan on taking him up on this.
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 09:12 AM
  #2819  
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Your wheels are pretty.
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 11:45 AM
  #2820  
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
clunk clunk clunk clunk
Only if it is not properly broken in
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 02:04 PM
  #2821  
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Originally Posted by David Hayes
Well, it is Florida so it is getting pretty warm. It's in the 80s now. It was a bit cooler when I went out for the spirited drive but it was probably 65 or so which I think would be plenty warm. I didn't warm up the tires as in a burn out or anything, just romped on it.

As for the age of the tires, you may be on to something. They were put on the car about 4 years ago and have not been used much as the car has been undergoing the conversion so maybe they've hardened up a bit.

I read recently about the testing of the new Yokohama's and the magazine (can't remember which) said they were the best tires they have ever tested for grip and performance. Called them game changers.

That is probably it. My grip on Kumho MX tires was off after 3 or so years of usage. Rubber degrades over time. Grassroots Motorsports ran an article about that sometime last year.

I've been reading some good press about those Yokohamas as well. A lot of the BMW guys love them on track. A bit pricey but very good.

I'm sure you'll get good info from Neil but look into BMW CCA events in your area for more learning experiences. They generally have great educational content and I've found it often helps to have input from more than one person.
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Old Mar 13, 2009 | 02:07 PM
  #2822  
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After 4 years and 8 months, I am proud to say that I am unsubscribing from this thread!

Congrats David, hope you enjoy your new toy in the best of health, be sure and keep us updated!

Best!
Charlie
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Old Mar 17, 2009 | 05:55 PM
  #2823  
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I want vids Dave, I've been waiting for the finish product like it was my own. Let's see what it sounds like, what it looks like in motion.
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Old Mar 18, 2009 | 08:27 PM
  #2824  
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Yeah Dave, vids or it didn't happen, especially with this projects track record.

btw, congrats
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Old Mar 22, 2009 | 09:20 AM
  #2825  
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Quicky Update

Yes, the conversion is real and the car drives great! No more vids yet but I will try my best for you soon.

I'm busy this afternoon replacing all of the broken bits and pieces on the interior of the car. It is surprising how brittle the plastics get and the number of things that break. Not too bad in my case but I am pretty ****. FYI - I did get 1 of 3 center speaker grilles left in the US so if you need one of these, call Ray Crowe pronto.

I'm also going to work on the PLX gauges as they are all not displaying. My oil/water temps are not displaying at all and my boost gauge displays but does not register. As I recall, all the gauges daisy chain together so I am going to ensure they're hooked up right and then go from there. As they plug into the PC maybe I can reboot them? Any PLX experts out there?

My one other problem is a very annoying and squeaky power steering belt. Jesus thought he had fixed this by replacing the belt but it has now come back. At idle, no squeak, but once RPMS increase, squeak. I have adjusted the tensioner and the squeak disappeared when I loosened it a bit, but it's now back. The power steering pulley is new as is the other pulley so I don't think it's one of these. Maybe the condenser pulley is misaligned?

Regardless, it's fun to drive!
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