Heaven or Hell: A Decade Long Time Attack Build
07-07-14, 12:56 AM
#51
Speaking of feedback...I would really welcome observations/thoughts/input from you guys here on the forum with track experience (provided you present yourself respectfully). I believe its important to keep an open mind, be self reflective, and welcome outside point of views that may run contradictory to your own perspective.
This project will be in continuous evolution. I am sure there is a lot to learn on the horizon as we near running condition.
This project will be in continuous evolution. I am sure there is a lot to learn on the horizon as we near running condition.
07-07-14, 01:22 AM
#52
Somewhere around this point in the build I made a pretty big change in direction that required a lot of substitutions to the parts I had stock piled.
When I started the build I had assumed I would run the car more-or-less like I do my S13...91 CA **** gas for messing around on the street, and unleaded 104 for the track. I have two Power FCs (one with a pump gas tune and one with race gas) that I swap out in my 13 based on the type of gas Im running. For the FD, I had my two Power FCs sitting on the shelf, but as time went on my goals for the car, and the price of gas, became increasingly higher.
I have always felt like 91 is a bad idea for rotary. In fact for many years of this build I completely anticipated the engine to blow like I was counting on it. I would think, "ok, so when this engine blows I will go with X setup". At the same time, with the prices of race gas reaching full retard levels I also knew I couldn't afford to pay $18/gal to supply a thirsty rotary with race gas. Around this time I started looking into AI, specifically water/meth injection. I did a lot of research (this forum was very helpful) and started making plans. I purchased an AEM H20/meth kit and threw it in the corner of the garage.
As more time went by those little seeds of doubt regarding AI started to grow in my mind. I had always felt like AI was a bandaid, but no doubt a pretty good bandaid. Im sure you know where this is going, and I did too - so eventually I decided to scrap the AI and embrace E85. Of course,this meant having to redo pretty much all of the fuel system parts that I had sitting in the garage ready to install. The next time frame of the build was spent gathering E85 related parts.
Im really hoping E85 (properly tuned of course) will be the "answer" to the turbo rotary "problem". I had even considered alternative engines (F22 and SR20 both crossed my mind, as well as ***GULP*** LS #merica #fuckyeah). I still am quite fond of NA 20B for race cars and may flirt with the idea again in the future depending on how things go. For now, I am going to give the 13B a good honest attempt and do it the best justice I can.
When I started the build I had assumed I would run the car more-or-less like I do my S13...91 CA **** gas for messing around on the street, and unleaded 104 for the track. I have two Power FCs (one with a pump gas tune and one with race gas) that I swap out in my 13 based on the type of gas Im running. For the FD, I had my two Power FCs sitting on the shelf, but as time went on my goals for the car, and the price of gas, became increasingly higher.
I have always felt like 91 is a bad idea for rotary. In fact for many years of this build I completely anticipated the engine to blow like I was counting on it. I would think, "ok, so when this engine blows I will go with X setup". At the same time, with the prices of race gas reaching full retard levels I also knew I couldn't afford to pay $18/gal to supply a thirsty rotary with race gas. Around this time I started looking into AI, specifically water/meth injection. I did a lot of research (this forum was very helpful) and started making plans. I purchased an AEM H20/meth kit and threw it in the corner of the garage.
As more time went by those little seeds of doubt regarding AI started to grow in my mind. I had always felt like AI was a bandaid, but no doubt a pretty good bandaid. Im sure you know where this is going, and I did too - so eventually I decided to scrap the AI and embrace E85. Of course,this meant having to redo pretty much all of the fuel system parts that I had sitting in the garage ready to install. The next time frame of the build was spent gathering E85 related parts.
Im really hoping E85 (properly tuned of course) will be the "answer" to the turbo rotary "problem". I had even considered alternative engines (F22 and SR20 both crossed my mind, as well as ***GULP*** LS #merica #fuckyeah). I still am quite fond of NA 20B for race cars and may flirt with the idea again in the future depending on how things go. For now, I am going to give the 13B a good honest attempt and do it the best justice I can.
07-07-14, 01:37 AM
#53
One of the major problems I faced with my E85 preparation was engine management. I have always been a big fan of PFC, and to be honest its all I have ever really known. It has always done the job I needed it to do with accuracy and reliability so there was really no reason for me to mess with anything else.
Now as I learned about E85 and the benefits of running a flex fuel sensor, I began to realize I may be finally starting to outgrow my faithful PFC. I also wanted to stay with only 4 injectors...this meant big primaries, another thing my PFC has issues with. So, after exhausting all possible work arounds, I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade my EMS.
I sold both PFCs and after a good bit of research settled on the Haltech PS1000.
A buddy had one laying around he was willing to part with, but I still needed to decide what to do about the harness...
Ill leave that for the next post.
(I also picked up a daily driver E36 M3 ^^^ which I am still driving)
Now as I learned about E85 and the benefits of running a flex fuel sensor, I began to realize I may be finally starting to outgrow my faithful PFC. I also wanted to stay with only 4 injectors...this meant big primaries, another thing my PFC has issues with. So, after exhausting all possible work arounds, I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade my EMS.
I sold both PFCs and after a good bit of research settled on the Haltech PS1000.
A buddy had one laying around he was willing to part with, but I still needed to decide what to do about the harness...
Ill leave that for the next post.
(I also picked up a daily driver E36 M3 ^^^ which I am still driving)
07-09-14, 03:08 AM
#54
For years I had been planning on running the car on my 850cc primary 1300cc secondary injectors, stock fuel rails, stock lines, and A'PEXi GTR pump. This all had to change now with the E85 plans.
Ordered the CJ Motorsports rails and injector bosses.
ID2000 x4 = 8800cc of injector.
A heads up to those planing on running the CJ rails and Banzai block off plates...one of the bolt heads on the ACV block off made contact with the secondary rail. I had to grind it down a bit for clearance.
FPR
Ill be running this flex fuel sensor in the return line.
Stock lines will be replaced with teflon coated E85 compatible fuel hose.
-8 from pump to Y-block, -8 from Y to secondary, -6 form Y to primary, and -6 to and from FPR.
I also ordered a Walbro 450L E85 pump.
Pics of fuel system to follow shortly as we will be working on it next week at the shop.
Ordered the CJ Motorsports rails and injector bosses.
ID2000 x4 = 8800cc of injector.
A heads up to those planing on running the CJ rails and Banzai block off plates...one of the bolt heads on the ACV block off made contact with the secondary rail. I had to grind it down a bit for clearance.
FPR
Ill be running this flex fuel sensor in the return line.
Stock lines will be replaced with teflon coated E85 compatible fuel hose.
-8 from pump to Y-block, -8 from Y to secondary, -6 form Y to primary, and -6 to and from FPR.
I also ordered a Walbro 450L E85 pump.
Pics of fuel system to follow shortly as we will be working on it next week at the shop.
07-09-14, 12:26 PM
#55
Speaking of feedback...I would really welcome observations/thoughts/input from you guys here on the forum with track experience (provided you present yourself respectfully). I believe its important to keep an open mind, be self reflective, and welcome outside point of views that may run contradictory to your own perspective.
This project will be in continuous evolution. I am sure there is a lot to learn on the horizon as we near running condition.
This project will be in continuous evolution. I am sure there is a lot to learn on the horizon as we near running condition.
are you looking for feedback on how we think your car will perform at a track?
well, i have some general input for you, based on what you've posted so far:
1. a "ramp" or small lip on the front of your large hood vents will help their functionality.
2. you haven't posted any info of which turbo setup you're going to be running. i have some good experience with this, as i've recently had to very different turbo setups and dyno tuned and tracked both setups at multiple tracks.
i ran a Precision 6262 (journal bearing) turbo with a Turblown dual wastegate manifold (wastegates recirc'd into the downpipe) with TiAl MV-S wastegates with water lines running to the wastegates. this setup was rock solid, but it was complex. removing the downpipe was more difficult than i wanted to deal with, and the oil lines, water lines, recircs, vbands, etc. were just daunting to deal with. this setup was also expensive. the wastegates were $250 each, manifold was 850, water lines, oil lines, etc. were another 150, downpipe had to be fabricated by my local buddy's shop (read: 4 labor hours plus materials), the stainless flex joints for the recircs, vband rings and clamps for the recircs, etc. see, this paragraph even explaining the setup is complex! complex or not though, the setup was robust, and handled track abuse like a CHAMP.
i sold that setup and bought a borg warner EFR 8374 turbo (almost the exact same comp/turbine sizes as the precision 6262 or a gtx35R. this setup makes the same power as the 6262, but the boost comes on ~1200rpms faster, the setup is much, much simpler, and the turbo is much higher quality. it also is about the same cost ($2000 turbo, but cheaper simpler manifold and no external wastegates and recircs and water lines)
both these setups made 338whp @ 12psi (dyno dynamics), but the borg warner had a much better power curve.
3. fuel. if you're planning on tracking your car on e85 you'll basically have to transport 25-30 gallons of e85 WITH YOU when you travel to the track. at the track days i've been to i've used about 1.5 TANKS of fuel on the track. there are no e85 gas stations close to the tracks we go to (road atlanta, barber, putnam, TGPR) so we can't leave the track and go fill up at the gas station with e85 at the pump. most racetracks sell fuel, but most do not sell e85. the e85 situation may be different in california where you are, but here it's a hassle.
if you have a tow vehicle and you can transport a large amount of e85 with you when you drive to the track, that could work. otherwise, it's not worth it.
4. how much power are you going to run? i personally wouldn't run over about 350whp and ~10-12psi. these little cars are very fast on the track at 350whp, and any more power with them is a lot to handle.
07-10-14, 03:22 AM
#56
Hey Jacob, thanks for the informative post.
Yes, like I mentioned, I welcome all kinds of feedback. Input based on past experience like what you have provided is great. Questions as to why something was done a particular way, or ideas on how an improvement might be made are all valuable to me. Although not all opinions are soundly grounded in fact or empirical evidence, I still make it a point to remain open minded. It never hurts to receive analysis from a multitude of diverse perspectives.
Anyways, yes I agree with everything you have said.
1) Gurney flaps on the hood vents is an excellent idea and something that I have planned on adding once the car is up and running. Something similar to the Car Shop Glow FD that has been all over Instagram the last few weeks.
Beautiful car.
The aero package on my car is something that really hasn't even been addressed yet. Plans include a flat bottom, big front splitter, rear diffuser, ginormous GT wing, and whatever else we come up with along the way. I have the Shine "Pro" rear diffuser, but Im not sure if we will be using it or making something custom. I also have a nice A'PEXi carbon "Extreme Wing" I was planning on using back in the day, but with the car widebody now -- it's too small. It will be in the For Sale section shortly. Yes, lots of aero work lays ahead.
2) Turbo setup. After reconnecting with Geoff from Full Race after almost 10 years (I worked with him during my A'PEX days when he was building his badass RB26 AWD S14) we went back and forth discussing the turbo system for the FD. In the end, I followed his recommendation and went with a BW S362 FMW cupped wheel 0.91A/R. At first I was concerned that the hot side was too small for a rotary application, but Geoff has lightyears more experience with these turbos than most and I feel safe in trusting his judgement. Plus, we have plans to upgrade to EFR once the car is sorted and running reliably (if there is such a thing). So, actually the plan is quite similar to what you've done. Geoff was willing to come on as a sponsor and cut me a sick deal on the parts. Really cool guy, I can't thank him enough. Im very pleased to see his shop still around and flourishing after all these years. The aftermarket really isn't what it used to be and unfortunately, a lot of shops/manufacturers found that out the hard way.
So for now Ill be running the S362 with a Full Race manifold and twin 44mm Tial MV-Rs. I totally agree with you that it is an expensive setup. Hopefully it performs as reliably as your similar setup did. The gates will be vented to atmosphere, so that should aid in cutting down the PITA installation/removal factor. It must have been really nice going to the internally gated EFR and getting to do away with the two gates and BOV.
Pics of the turbo system will be up shortly.
3) Yes, the car will be a dedicated track car that sees little time on the street. No way Im driving it to the track haha. Here in southern california - PPG straight cut dog box, 3.5" straight through exhaust + rotary and widebody mean I probably won't last 20 miles before Im having an awkward conversation with a person wearing a gun and a badge. Although, I still plan to play on the street until my toy gets taken away -- at which time I will promptly retrieve it form impound and proceed to not play on said streets anymore lol.
This wasn't always the plan, but as time went on and goals got more serious things started taking a turn towards trailer queen land. To be honest, its actually what I prefer now days. As Ive grown older I have somewhat fell out of love with highly modified street cars. They smell, they're uncomfortable, they get **** MPG, they get fucked with when parked in public, they get fucked with by cops...after a while the cons started to outweigh the pros for me. Ive been around/involved with modifying Japanese cars my entire adult life and only until a few years ago did I realize that modified street cars are stuck in the middle. They make for shitty track cars when compared to cars built exclusively for track use, and they make for shitty street cars compared to nice street cars. This of course in just my opinion, but I fully believe in the old adage "different horses for different courses". All of my cars have a specific purpose whether its street, time attack, drift, etc. This is not to say that street cars aren't fun on the track though! =P
The frustrating part (but fun in a lot of ways) is trying to take a mass produced street car (like the FD) and turn it into a race car. We pretty much have to reverse engineer everything. Compare that to a car like a Porsche GT3 or Ferrari 458 which were engineered from the factory to be ran on the race track and the difference between a street car and a race bred car become glaringly obvious. Of course like most things...it all boils down to $$$.
4) First let me say I totally agree with you're assessment. 350whp in a lightened FD is a lot of car and you will likely be challenged for quite some time to elevate your driving skills to match the potential of the car. That being said, my goal for the FD is to compete at time attack events at a professional level, and for that 350whp simply won't cut it. Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to say that Im too badass for a measly 350whp FD track car. In fact, we will likely be running at low boost for quite a while until the car is dialed in. But as far as the dyno tune is concerned the goal will be something in the vicinity of 500whp.
Ive driven at easily 50-60 track events throughout the years so Im no stranger to being behind the wheel, but at the same time I am new to tracking an FD so I plan to approach the situation with a lot of respect for the car. Im really looking forward to learning the FD and for the initial few experiences, I will consider the project a complete success if I am scared shitless of the car. That would make me so happy.
There are so many things to get sorted on the car in order to make it fast at the track. The aero, as mentioned above, the suspension work has just scratched the surface as well. Braking hopefully shouldn't be a problem as I have some opportunities with Stoptech. Id like to work on getting the car lighter as well. It never ends, but my focus for now is on getting the damn thing running.
Wow...I typed a lot more than I anticipated. Car stuff is very easy to ramble on about. Just ask my wife!
Yes, like I mentioned, I welcome all kinds of feedback. Input based on past experience like what you have provided is great. Questions as to why something was done a particular way, or ideas on how an improvement might be made are all valuable to me. Although not all opinions are soundly grounded in fact or empirical evidence, I still make it a point to remain open minded. It never hurts to receive analysis from a multitude of diverse perspectives.
Anyways, yes I agree with everything you have said.
1) Gurney flaps on the hood vents is an excellent idea and something that I have planned on adding once the car is up and running. Something similar to the Car Shop Glow FD that has been all over Instagram the last few weeks.
Beautiful car.
The aero package on my car is something that really hasn't even been addressed yet. Plans include a flat bottom, big front splitter, rear diffuser, ginormous GT wing, and whatever else we come up with along the way. I have the Shine "Pro" rear diffuser, but Im not sure if we will be using it or making something custom. I also have a nice A'PEXi carbon "Extreme Wing" I was planning on using back in the day, but with the car widebody now -- it's too small. It will be in the For Sale section shortly. Yes, lots of aero work lays ahead.
2) Turbo setup. After reconnecting with Geoff from Full Race after almost 10 years (I worked with him during my A'PEX days when he was building his badass RB26 AWD S14) we went back and forth discussing the turbo system for the FD. In the end, I followed his recommendation and went with a BW S362 FMW cupped wheel 0.91A/R. At first I was concerned that the hot side was too small for a rotary application, but Geoff has lightyears more experience with these turbos than most and I feel safe in trusting his judgement. Plus, we have plans to upgrade to EFR once the car is sorted and running reliably (if there is such a thing). So, actually the plan is quite similar to what you've done. Geoff was willing to come on as a sponsor and cut me a sick deal on the parts. Really cool guy, I can't thank him enough. Im very pleased to see his shop still around and flourishing after all these years. The aftermarket really isn't what it used to be and unfortunately, a lot of shops/manufacturers found that out the hard way.
So for now Ill be running the S362 with a Full Race manifold and twin 44mm Tial MV-Rs. I totally agree with you that it is an expensive setup. Hopefully it performs as reliably as your similar setup did. The gates will be vented to atmosphere, so that should aid in cutting down the PITA installation/removal factor. It must have been really nice going to the internally gated EFR and getting to do away with the two gates and BOV.
Pics of the turbo system will be up shortly.
3) Yes, the car will be a dedicated track car that sees little time on the street. No way Im driving it to the track haha. Here in southern california - PPG straight cut dog box, 3.5" straight through exhaust + rotary and widebody mean I probably won't last 20 miles before Im having an awkward conversation with a person wearing a gun and a badge. Although, I still plan to play on the street until my toy gets taken away -- at which time I will promptly retrieve it form impound and proceed to not play on said streets anymore lol.
This wasn't always the plan, but as time went on and goals got more serious things started taking a turn towards trailer queen land. To be honest, its actually what I prefer now days. As Ive grown older I have somewhat fell out of love with highly modified street cars. They smell, they're uncomfortable, they get **** MPG, they get fucked with when parked in public, they get fucked with by cops...after a while the cons started to outweigh the pros for me. Ive been around/involved with modifying Japanese cars my entire adult life and only until a few years ago did I realize that modified street cars are stuck in the middle. They make for shitty track cars when compared to cars built exclusively for track use, and they make for shitty street cars compared to nice street cars. This of course in just my opinion, but I fully believe in the old adage "different horses for different courses". All of my cars have a specific purpose whether its street, time attack, drift, etc. This is not to say that street cars aren't fun on the track though! =P
The frustrating part (but fun in a lot of ways) is trying to take a mass produced street car (like the FD) and turn it into a race car. We pretty much have to reverse engineer everything. Compare that to a car like a Porsche GT3 or Ferrari 458 which were engineered from the factory to be ran on the race track and the difference between a street car and a race bred car become glaringly obvious. Of course like most things...it all boils down to $$$.
4) First let me say I totally agree with you're assessment. 350whp in a lightened FD is a lot of car and you will likely be challenged for quite some time to elevate your driving skills to match the potential of the car. That being said, my goal for the FD is to compete at time attack events at a professional level, and for that 350whp simply won't cut it. Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to say that Im too badass for a measly 350whp FD track car. In fact, we will likely be running at low boost for quite a while until the car is dialed in. But as far as the dyno tune is concerned the goal will be something in the vicinity of 500whp.
Ive driven at easily 50-60 track events throughout the years so Im no stranger to being behind the wheel, but at the same time I am new to tracking an FD so I plan to approach the situation with a lot of respect for the car. Im really looking forward to learning the FD and for the initial few experiences, I will consider the project a complete success if I am scared shitless of the car. That would make me so happy.
There are so many things to get sorted on the car in order to make it fast at the track. The aero, as mentioned above, the suspension work has just scratched the surface as well. Braking hopefully shouldn't be a problem as I have some opportunities with Stoptech. Id like to work on getting the car lighter as well. It never ends, but my focus for now is on getting the damn thing running.
Wow...I typed a lot more than I anticipated. Car stuff is very easy to ramble on about. Just ask my wife!
07-14-14, 05:02 AM
#58
TY.
Now that the car is at the shop, work has been progressing pretty rapidly. The v-mount setup is more or less mocked up, the IGN-1A coils are almost mounted, and the fuel system is coming along. Pics and updates to come.
One thing I wanted to ask you guys is where you get your AN fittings. We spent over an hour going over every inch of the fuel system and mapped out exactly what fittings will go where. It was a rather humbling exercise as things quickly got out of hand and before we knew it the estimate came out to somewhere around $1300 in fittings alone. This doesn't included the PTPE (teflon) E85 fuel line (this line BTW requires a special type of AN fitting). I know fittings get expensive, but damn. Have you guys all bit the bullet and dropped that kind of money on AN fittings for your fuel system? In the end, we started considering the possibility of just going with barb adapters and using hose clamps. =X
Im still looking for a reasonable alternative or a cheaper source for ANs, but then you start having to deal with Chinese made fittings. Any info would be appreciated.
Now that the car is at the shop, work has been progressing pretty rapidly. The v-mount setup is more or less mocked up, the IGN-1A coils are almost mounted, and the fuel system is coming along. Pics and updates to come.
One thing I wanted to ask you guys is where you get your AN fittings. We spent over an hour going over every inch of the fuel system and mapped out exactly what fittings will go where. It was a rather humbling exercise as things quickly got out of hand and before we knew it the estimate came out to somewhere around $1300 in fittings alone. This doesn't included the PTPE (teflon) E85 fuel line (this line BTW requires a special type of AN fitting). I know fittings get expensive, but damn. Have you guys all bit the bullet and dropped that kind of money on AN fittings for your fuel system? In the end, we started considering the possibility of just going with barb adapters and using hose clamps. =X
Im still looking for a reasonable alternative or a cheaper source for ANs, but then you start having to deal with Chinese made fittings. Any info would be appreciated.
07-14-14, 12:42 PM
#60
Have you guys all bit the bullet and dropped that kind of money on AN fittings for your fuel system? In the end, we started considering the possibility of just going with barb adapters and using hose clamps. =X
Yes, I did a full AN system for my TII in 2001.
I haven't had to replace anything besides an injector o-ring yet...
I have had a couple turbo fires (coolant on turbo, oil on turbo). Both those fires were from stock turbo components- I upgraded the oil feed to hard line to AN.
I would say AN fittings are worth it on a turbo car where it is probably going to catch fire at some point.
Knowing what I know now I would do a displacement NA build (3-4rotor) and keep the setup simple with pushlok fittings.
On that note, don't use any heat wrap/turbo blankets/insulation or heat shields that will trap oil on exhaust components and keep all lines/wires as far from the exhaust side of the engine as possible.
Install a Halon system with a nozzle near the exhaust side of the engine.
Yes, I did a full AN system for my TII in 2001.
I haven't had to replace anything besides an injector o-ring yet...
I have had a couple turbo fires (coolant on turbo, oil on turbo). Both those fires were from stock turbo components- I upgraded the oil feed to hard line to AN.
I would say AN fittings are worth it on a turbo car where it is probably going to catch fire at some point.
Knowing what I know now I would do a displacement NA build (3-4rotor) and keep the setup simple with pushlok fittings.
On that note, don't use any heat wrap/turbo blankets/insulation or heat shields that will trap oil on exhaust components and keep all lines/wires as far from the exhaust side of the engine as possible.
Install a Halon system with a nozzle near the exhaust side of the engine.
07-18-14, 04:00 AM
#61
Yes, I did a full AN system for my TII in 2001.
I haven't had to replace anything besides an injector o-ring yet...
I have had a couple turbo fires (coolant on turbo, oil on turbo). Both those fires were from stock turbo components- I upgraded the oil feed to hard line to AN.
I would say AN fittings are worth it on a turbo car where it is probably going to catch fire at some point.
Knowing what I know now I would do a displacement NA build (3-4rotor) and keep the setup simple with pushlok fittings.
On that note, don't use any heat wrap/turbo blankets/insulation or heat shields that will trap oil on exhaust components and keep all lines/wires as far from the exhaust side of the engine as possible.
Install a Halon system with a nozzle near the exhaust side of the engine.
I haven't had to replace anything besides an injector o-ring yet...
I have had a couple turbo fires (coolant on turbo, oil on turbo). Both those fires were from stock turbo components- I upgraded the oil feed to hard line to AN.
I would say AN fittings are worth it on a turbo car where it is probably going to catch fire at some point.
Knowing what I know now I would do a displacement NA build (3-4rotor) and keep the setup simple with pushlok fittings.
On that note, don't use any heat wrap/turbo blankets/insulation or heat shields that will trap oil on exhaust components and keep all lines/wires as far from the exhaust side of the engine as possible.
Install a Halon system with a nozzle near the exhaust side of the engine.
Im leaning towards this stuff:
Goodridge G-Line XF 910.
Carbon impregnated PTFE, kevlar fabric braid, light weight, and around $14/ft for -6 and $19 for -8.
Also the "olive-less" reusable fittings they make for this hose is reasonable at around $15-20/fitting.
I think Ill give it a shot.
Interestingly, I see websites listing the hose for like $30-40/ft, then most fall around the low $20s, but this plumbing monkey site has the best deals by far.
910-06 - G-Line XF Series Aramid Braided Hose -
07-23-14, 02:13 AM
#63
A few more parts.
The white face turns black and the members are blood red at night <3 <3 <3
As much as I love this cluster, Ill prob end up moving to a RacePak IQ3 dash display in the future.
I spent a lot of time researching hubs and quick releases. I decided on the Works Bell short hub with QRS II quick release. Since Im a short ************ (5'7") I need to sit fairly close to the wheel to get a comfortable pedal position. This means a normal short hub/quick release setup places the wheel too close to my chest for my taste.
The QRS II quick release is significantly shorter than any other QR Ive seen outside the hardcore weld on types. It think it came out perfect. Wheel placement is pretty much stock.
Now that I have a Haltech on deck I had to get myself one of dem fancy FFE triggers.
I decided to just run premix.
I plan on going to an electric water pump in the future, but this will help for now.
The white face turns black and the members are blood red at night <3 <3 <3
As much as I love this cluster, Ill prob end up moving to a RacePak IQ3 dash display in the future.
I spent a lot of time researching hubs and quick releases. I decided on the Works Bell short hub with QRS II quick release. Since Im a short ************ (5'7") I need to sit fairly close to the wheel to get a comfortable pedal position. This means a normal short hub/quick release setup places the wheel too close to my chest for my taste.
The QRS II quick release is significantly shorter than any other QR Ive seen outside the hardcore weld on types. It think it came out perfect. Wheel placement is pretty much stock.
Now that I have a Haltech on deck I had to get myself one of dem fancy FFE triggers.
I decided to just run premix.
I plan on going to an electric water pump in the future, but this will help for now.
07-24-14, 03:40 AM
#64
I spend months cleaning out my garage and doing the best I can to make it into my home "shop". It was so full of junk before you couldn't even get a car inside. Now it finally feels like a somewhat confortable environment to work on the car. Its a nice feeling having your own place to spend time wrenching. Ive accumulated enough tools/equipment to pretty much do anything I need, except welding. I plan to fix that in the future.
The peg board really helped organize things.
The peg board really helped organize things.
07-24-14, 06:51 PM
#65
AX, which injectors are you going with now?
keep in mind that haltech will only do MAP based staged injection, which means (i'm not sure how familiar you are with this already -- forgive me if you know this already) you can't have TPS or other factors trigger the secondary transition like your PFC does. this requires larger primaries because they will only come online when you pass a MAP threshold, which can be a problem when you're sitting in vacuum at ~5000 rpms and you suddenly shoot into boost. this means your primaries have to supply fuel for 5000rpms of fuel demand until you cross your MAP staging line (mine is set at 2 psi).
i am running 4x ID2000 injectors on gasoline and i don't have any issues (1x walbro 340lph pump). i would definitely recommend 4x ID2000s if you're running e85, maybe even more if you're going for big power.
keep in mind that haltech will only do MAP based staged injection, which means (i'm not sure how familiar you are with this already -- forgive me if you know this already) you can't have TPS or other factors trigger the secondary transition like your PFC does. this requires larger primaries because they will only come online when you pass a MAP threshold, which can be a problem when you're sitting in vacuum at ~5000 rpms and you suddenly shoot into boost. this means your primaries have to supply fuel for 5000rpms of fuel demand until you cross your MAP staging line (mine is set at 2 psi).
i am running 4x ID2000 injectors on gasoline and i don't have any issues (1x walbro 340lph pump). i would definitely recommend 4x ID2000s if you're running e85, maybe even more if you're going for big power.
07-26-14, 12:20 AM
#66
Hey Jacob, thanks for the insight. No worries...never any offense taken towards someone offering information, regardless if it is news to me or not.
Coming from a PFC life, other management systems are new to me. I have been trying to learn as much as possible about the PS1000.
That said, while poking around in ECU Manager I did notice the staged injection settings. Which mode are you using (primary hold or common)? I was planning on using common. Also, how did you determine to use 2psi as your transition threshold? Im thinking primary injector duty would provide a good indication.
I am indeed running ID2000 x4, along with a Walbro 450L E85 pump. I think (I hope) the setup will be adequate to reach my 500whp goal. I will squeeze as much out of them as I can until 85-90% duty.
One thing I have been on the fence about it whether to start the car on 91 pump gas or E85. I found a map from someone here on the forum for PS1000 and ID2000 x4 on E85 that Ive been thinking about using (https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-foru...00-map-947866/). If I zero the timing it should be good enough to get the car running and use as a base on the dyno.
However, if I use this E85 map as a base, I will not be able to take advantage of my flex fuel sensor in closed loop correction. Correct? I know the recommended procedure per Haltech is to tune a safe base on pump, then drain the tank, fill the tank with E85 and tune only using the composition correction maps...adding fuel/timing/boost based on increasing ethanol %.
Im wondering...Since this car will not see anything but E85 (the only reason I want to use the flex fuel sensor is just in case I get a low ethanol batch of E85 from the gas station), is it possible to use the correction maps in reverse? Ie. - Tune a base map on 85% ethanol, and use the correction maps to take away fuel/timing/boost based on decreasing % of ethanol. Of course you would have to inverse the scalar maps as well such that at 85% composition it would use 0% of the correction map, and at 0% composition use 100% of the correction.
...These are the kind of things I think about while trying to sleep at night.
Coming from a PFC life, other management systems are new to me. I have been trying to learn as much as possible about the PS1000.
That said, while poking around in ECU Manager I did notice the staged injection settings. Which mode are you using (primary hold or common)? I was planning on using common. Also, how did you determine to use 2psi as your transition threshold? Im thinking primary injector duty would provide a good indication.
I am indeed running ID2000 x4, along with a Walbro 450L E85 pump. I think (I hope) the setup will be adequate to reach my 500whp goal. I will squeeze as much out of them as I can until 85-90% duty.
One thing I have been on the fence about it whether to start the car on 91 pump gas or E85. I found a map from someone here on the forum for PS1000 and ID2000 x4 on E85 that Ive been thinking about using (https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-foru...00-map-947866/). If I zero the timing it should be good enough to get the car running and use as a base on the dyno.
However, if I use this E85 map as a base, I will not be able to take advantage of my flex fuel sensor in closed loop correction. Correct? I know the recommended procedure per Haltech is to tune a safe base on pump, then drain the tank, fill the tank with E85 and tune only using the composition correction maps...adding fuel/timing/boost based on increasing ethanol %.
Im wondering...Since this car will not see anything but E85 (the only reason I want to use the flex fuel sensor is just in case I get a low ethanol batch of E85 from the gas station), is it possible to use the correction maps in reverse? Ie. - Tune a base map on 85% ethanol, and use the correction maps to take away fuel/timing/boost based on decreasing % of ethanol. Of course you would have to inverse the scalar maps as well such that at 85% composition it would use 0% of the correction map, and at 0% composition use 100% of the correction.
...These are the kind of things I think about while trying to sleep at night.
07-26-14, 11:57 AM
#67
AX, i am using primary hold mode. my experience with this mode has been that it makes for a much smoother transition. i literally can't tell when the secondaries come online (going INTO boost out down OUT of boost to vacuum).
neither primary hold nor common mode will fix the issue of having MAP ONLY staging, as you'd still get into the same situation with high RPM low boost fuel.
i can send you my full map that you could start with. it's not perfect (i'm using about 3% o2 correction to keep the AFRs nice and smooth) but it works very well. i switch between DDing this car and my sc300. email me at jacob.cartmill@gmail.com if you want, and i'll send it to you.
i think it would be best to do a 100% gasoline tune and use the correction maps as the manual says, unless you plan to never have a need for regular gasoline. i don't think you can do the correction maps in reverse, but i'm not sure about that.
i haven't messed with the e85 flexfuel sensor/correction as i can't really use e85 at track days --i drive my FD to the events on gasoline, and there are few (and far between) gas stations with e85 en route, and there are no e85 gas stations near the tracks. so without transporting literally about 30 gallons of e85 fuel, i can't run e85 at the track days. maybe one day i'll get a truck and trailer. i just feel so much more hardcore driving the FD, tracking, and driving back
(these are the things i think about when trying to sleep at night!) haha.
neither primary hold nor common mode will fix the issue of having MAP ONLY staging, as you'd still get into the same situation with high RPM low boost fuel.
i can send you my full map that you could start with. it's not perfect (i'm using about 3% o2 correction to keep the AFRs nice and smooth) but it works very well. i switch between DDing this car and my sc300. email me at jacob.cartmill@gmail.com if you want, and i'll send it to you.
i think it would be best to do a 100% gasoline tune and use the correction maps as the manual says, unless you plan to never have a need for regular gasoline. i don't think you can do the correction maps in reverse, but i'm not sure about that.
i haven't messed with the e85 flexfuel sensor/correction as i can't really use e85 at track days --i drive my FD to the events on gasoline, and there are few (and far between) gas stations with e85 en route, and there are no e85 gas stations near the tracks. so without transporting literally about 30 gallons of e85 fuel, i can't run e85 at the track days. maybe one day i'll get a truck and trailer. i just feel so much more hardcore driving the FD, tracking, and driving back
(these are the things i think about when trying to sleep at night!) haha.
07-27-14, 04:28 AM
#68
Yeah Ill definitely take you up on that map. Im leaning towards doing it by the book, its just I really don't ever think I will run pump gas. I have an E85 station about 8 miles from my house. I plan to fill like 8 5gal pales at a time and store them in my garage as needed. For racing theres no way I want to make the 200+ mile each way trek to Buttonwillow in the car. Theres just no way...Id have to stop for gas multiple times each way. Plus we are planning to run a big front splitter and other aero that would make driving the car on the road...interesting. So truck and trailer will be in effect.
I do agree it is very cool driving your car to the track, kicking some ***, and driving back home. I used to do it with my S13. I would drive to the track, change tires to r-compunds, disconnect the fuel return line and run the car to drain the pump gas into pales, then dump in my Sunoco 104. In a weird and hard to explain way, it was really satisfying driving the car to and from the track when I got my D1 license too. I definitely get what you're saying.
I have a famous Hawaiian elf friend who (back in the early days of import drag -- he's a rather ancient elf) used to drive his EG Civic to the drag strip, throw on slicks, run 10's, kick everyones *** in his class...then switch back to street tires and drive home. **** like that really deserves a lot of respect imo.
I do agree it is very cool driving your car to the track, kicking some ***, and driving back home. I used to do it with my S13. I would drive to the track, change tires to r-compunds, disconnect the fuel return line and run the car to drain the pump gas into pales, then dump in my Sunoco 104. In a weird and hard to explain way, it was really satisfying driving the car to and from the track when I got my D1 license too. I definitely get what you're saying.
I have a famous Hawaiian elf friend who (back in the early days of import drag -- he's a rather ancient elf) used to drive his EG Civic to the drag strip, throw on slicks, run 10's, kick everyones *** in his class...then switch back to street tires and drive home. **** like that really deserves a lot of respect imo.
07-29-14, 03:13 AM
#71
Oh...haha.. Sorry if that was confusing. I was just messing around since my friend was building his GTR at the time and it was a cool photo op. So that was an RB26, not the jigga man.
If I was to ever cross into the darkness and put pistons in my car it would likely be a *GASP* Honda engine. F22 or K20 (if I could figure out how to configure for FR), turbo of course. There are so many people making insane power on Honda engines (esp K-series) -- Id like to be part of the club.
I just drove a 500whp Civic the other day. K20, pump gas (CA **** 91), and like 8psi...wtf? High compression + turbo is efficient as hell. YES PLEASE!
If not a Honda motor, I would plop an NA 20B in there and try to make 450ish.
If I was to ever cross into the darkness and put pistons in my car it would likely be a *GASP* Honda engine. F22 or K20 (if I could figure out how to configure for FR), turbo of course. There are so many people making insane power on Honda engines (esp K-series) -- Id like to be part of the club.
I just drove a 500whp Civic the other day. K20, pump gas (CA **** 91), and like 8psi...wtf? High compression + turbo is efficient as hell. YES PLEASE!
If not a Honda motor, I would plop an NA 20B in there and try to make 450ish.
07-29-14, 03:28 AM
#72
He's working at a shop called AutoTalent now, in Carson CA.
Auto Talent | Gallery
I would highly recommend Koji to anybody in Southern California looking for a master tuner. The aftermarket tuning industry in the US was born, bred, and is still centered here in SoCal (though it sadly isn't what it used to be). Koji has been involved since the early days and has really evolved into an excellent tuner. Everyone I know would trust their projects (some very expensive projects) to Koji, without reservation. Those of us who are local are lucky to have access to such a resource.
Does it should like Im on Koji's nuts??
I am! Cus he's the ****** man! =)
Auto Talent | Gallery
I would highly recommend Koji to anybody in Southern California looking for a master tuner. The aftermarket tuning industry in the US was born, bred, and is still centered here in SoCal (though it sadly isn't what it used to be). Koji has been involved since the early days and has really evolved into an excellent tuner. Everyone I know would trust their projects (some very expensive projects) to Koji, without reservation. Those of us who are local are lucky to have access to such a resource.
Does it should like Im on Koji's nuts??
I am! Cus he's the ****** man! =)
08-04-14, 04:28 AM
#75
Picked up a set of bronze TE37's from my old boss and good friend Toshi Hayama. Toshi pretty much taught me everything I knew from the age of 19 to 26 and was a huge influence on my life. A true mentor and Obi-wan figure to me that I am so fortunate to call my friend.
Anyways, I was so stoked grab these wheels. I went to visit Toshi at his new shop location for his latest venture (GTNET USA). It was nice to see his R34 GTR again after all these years. Its a trip because it looks exactly the same, as if it rolled out of a time machine from 10 years ago. It was still rocking the Volk GT-C's, but originally he had bronze TE's on it. I was surprised to hear that he still had them, collecting dust in his garage at home -- aaaaand was willing to cut me a sick deal. I have always been bias towards black on bronze and TE37 has long been one of my very favorite wheels, so I had to jump on em.
I had forgotten what the size and offset was, but I really didn't care as these are "street" wheels and Ill just make them fit. Turns out they are 18x9.5 +18 all around. This was weird, because I remember "GTR offset" Volk wheels to be 10.5 +18. It worked out fine as the low offset makes the front hard to fit without applying for citizenship to the Stance Nation and littering my car with Illest stickers (Ill stop now before going on a rant about this). They came with 275 Nitto NT01 r-compounds all around, which made the fronts even harder to fit.
...Dem fronts are HELLA FLUSH YO!!
I switched out the fronts to 255 and it is much better. I also threw a 20mm spacer in the rear (like I said...not track wheels). I think the optimal aesthetic sizing for the Shine Feed widebody would be 18x10.5 +18 in the rear and 18x9.5 +22 in the front. That being said...if anyone has a set of TE or CE wheels in those sizes and whats to trade, PM me! Or if you have a pair of 18x9.5 +22 and want +18 instead.
For track duty, I plan to get some tried and true Enkei RPF1s or NT03. Cant beat the performance per dollar there.
Toshi's 34, when he had BBS LM's. Couldn't find a pic of his car on the TEs.
I think he might have let Wen borrow them for his 33 for this Sport Compact Car shoot, so this might be them haha.
I like putting parts on my car that have history. =)
Anyways, I was so stoked grab these wheels. I went to visit Toshi at his new shop location for his latest venture (GTNET USA). It was nice to see his R34 GTR again after all these years. Its a trip because it looks exactly the same, as if it rolled out of a time machine from 10 years ago. It was still rocking the Volk GT-C's, but originally he had bronze TE's on it. I was surprised to hear that he still had them, collecting dust in his garage at home -- aaaaand was willing to cut me a sick deal. I have always been bias towards black on bronze and TE37 has long been one of my very favorite wheels, so I had to jump on em.
I had forgotten what the size and offset was, but I really didn't care as these are "street" wheels and Ill just make them fit. Turns out they are 18x9.5 +18 all around. This was weird, because I remember "GTR offset" Volk wheels to be 10.5 +18. It worked out fine as the low offset makes the front hard to fit without applying for citizenship to the Stance Nation and littering my car with Illest stickers (Ill stop now before going on a rant about this). They came with 275 Nitto NT01 r-compounds all around, which made the fronts even harder to fit.
...Dem fronts are HELLA FLUSH YO!!
I switched out the fronts to 255 and it is much better. I also threw a 20mm spacer in the rear (like I said...not track wheels). I think the optimal aesthetic sizing for the Shine Feed widebody would be 18x10.5 +18 in the rear and 18x9.5 +22 in the front. That being said...if anyone has a set of TE or CE wheels in those sizes and whats to trade, PM me! Or if you have a pair of 18x9.5 +22 and want +18 instead.
For track duty, I plan to get some tried and true Enkei RPF1s or NT03. Cant beat the performance per dollar there.
Toshi's 34, when he had BBS LM's. Couldn't find a pic of his car on the TEs.
I think he might have let Wen borrow them for his 33 for this Sport Compact Car shoot, so this might be them haha.
I like putting parts on my car that have history. =)