That's what is the most frustrating part of this entire situation. No one can definitely say what happened and therefore no one is accepting responsibility. Just pour more money down the hole...

 

This was part of my problem, -20 or lower rating is the stuff that you're looking for, that has enough methanol content to be worthwhile. You;d have to check the msds sheet for each brand and temp rating to know what you are really getting. Boost juice takes that variable out of the equation for a few more $ per gallon. I ran -20 fluid at first, but then I thought about the thousands spent on my motor, thousands on the turbo system, a thousand on a good tune, to just run bug juice that you don't know for certain what's in it. Also had a hard time finding it at the parts stores in summer. Just my .02

*edit* If memory serves me right, -20 was only around 30%, I was having to add bottles of heet to up the methanol content. More $$ and more variables and unnecessary mixing and complexity for my application.

 

Well...after about 30 miles or so since I put on the AI system, I figured I'd check my compression for ***** and giggles. Sadly, it's gotten worse.

Both Warm Corrected Readings:
Front: 69 61 68
Rear: 49 50 50

Back on 8/23, my numbers were:
Front: 69 74 73
Rear: 67 64 65

One thing I noticed is that my high-power starter isn't moving at high-power speeds. It previously would spin at around 300RPM on the compression tests. This time it was around 240 RPM. I can definitely hear the difference. Not sure what's going on with that. I had the battery on tender and it showed as good. The car does start up fine cold (so far). I took it for a 5-mile drive, came home, and tested compression. I did put a battery boost pack on the battery just to be sure I was getting max voltage so I have NO IDEA why my high-power starter isn't turning as fast. I know that doesn't affect my compression numbers though but it sure does help with starting.

I've been so busy at home with the kids and work that I maybe have put on 120-150 miles in the last 3 months so seeing a drop of ~15-20psi corrected doesn't give me much confidence.

Kinda back at that point of do I drive it until it won't start or drop it off with Bryan and have him pull it and see what's going on...

 

Happy New Year to you!

My advice remains the same - have Bryan pull the engine and see what's going on. Something is clearly not right. And with a brand new motor, there should be some action taken by Bryan to make it right.

 

not really sure what happened, nothing is going to solve the existing issue except a rebuild & try again hoping the 3rd times a charm. The plugs and WI come in then. Not going to have any impact now. All of these side discussions and tactics are just distractions from the actual problem at hand.

 

^ What he said. Get going now and take the car to Bryan so you are ready for DGRR.

When you open up the engine and inspect, a lot will become evident. You should know with a high degree of certainty where the problem lies, on the engine build side or with tuning.

 

Spoke to Bryan today. He's back up for a month so I'm going to bring the car to him next month. He said if I bring it now, it will just sit for a month. He wants to get to the bottom of this as well but said my car is better off in my garage for a month than sitting out in the elements at his shop for a month.

 

This build was like finding a homeless, drug-addicted person, giving them a chance, helping them to get clean, watching them start to succeed to find a good life only to watch them fall back into addiction/old ways once everything seems to be going right. Then doing it all over again because we believe in second/third/fourth(?) chances. What a rollercoaster. Trials and tribulations, passion and dedication, drama - it's got it all.

Sorry to add nothing of value here but I just wanted to say this has been one of the most inspiring, disheartening, and educational builds all in one. Thank you for documenting and sharing all of this knowledge and experience.

But, man, I really do need to see you get a Disney ending for the conclusion.

 

I hope you meant a 1960s Disney ending and not a current one …
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You are 100% spot on with your analogy. I'm just so damn vested.

I've said before but this is really going to be my last rebuild. It's either rebuild and take a chance or sell with a freshly rebuilt motor. One thing I've already told Bryan is I want him to tune it. Not Nelson, Not Shawn, not anyone who can't put their butt in the seat and feel the car before, during, and after the tune. I also now need one throat to choke if something goes sideways again (if I decide to keep it). I'm not looking to make gobs of power. A <400HP single turbo FD formula isn't new. This should NOT be this hard.

 

Haltech looked at my tune (Nelson provided them with unlocked version) and said my tune is solid. They said if anything, my tune is very conservative.

Of course DGRR registration would open up today. I'll probably book a room to have one but hold off on registration until I decide the fate of the car...

 

Another tip in a similar vein is-
if you have to use pump gas, buy from 1 trusted source and send samples in so when you find out you are running 87 octane you know who to sue for damages.

Or, tune for 87 octane.

Ive been to gas stations completely out of gas several times in my life (rural life), I have never been to a gas station that was out of only 91 octane.

 

So....I think I am going to make some progress here. I got introduced through some people I met at the track to Steve Eckerich. I explained to him my issues and he's pretty sure my issue is not with my tune or my builder but the rotors. I told him I had them balanced and clearanced and he said balancing a rotor is complex and there are formulas and things that need to be considered beyond just the rotor balance itself like the weight added to the rotating mass by oil. He said if those calculations weren't done or not done right, the rotating mass by itself might be balanced but when you add in all the other things that come into play when you put a motor together, it can be as much as 12 grams off. He's seen and fixed issues just like mine...more than once.

He said its either that or a stuck seal in the groove. He learned how to balance rotors from Roger Mandeville and said its something people can easily get wrong if they don't know all the formulas, which Roger learned directly from Mazda. He's offered to help and work with Bryan when my motor comes apart. I spent an hour talking to him and his knowledge blew me away as well the generosity of his time and offer to help. Based on what I told him about my build, he said the rest of my components for my single turbo setup are good. He's eagerly awaiting to see if his theory about my motor is true.

 

This is a great idea. Steve is very knowledgeable and if he will help, for sure get him involved. Maybe he will even let you see his massive trove of rotary parts.

 

I believe you are familiar with my story (consecutive warped seals). I too had my rotors balanced and clearanced.... interesting

 

FWIW, I've heard of a lot of "balancing and lightening" jobs from vendors that actually weren't balanced at all, they're just pretty machining. However, that's a curious point since a standard assembly isn't balanced at all. Mine have the works including scalloping, so I guess I'll watch this space.

 

I don't have a definitive answer for this, but we know that rotors are graded/matched. Maybe the issue is that rotors from Mazda "look" out of balance when examined outside of a motor, but when you add in the variables like the weight of oil, they are actually balanced. I assume when you start mixing rotors or are doing track time/racing, that's when balancing them beyond OEM standards matters, but that it needs to be done by people who don't just machine off metal?

 

I believe I rwad Mazda actually started dynamic balancing the rotating assembly in 2004 with the RX-8 high power spec.

Im not sure if they carried that process over to the 13B-REW high power spec or not.

My crate engine had a lot more drilling on the rear counterweight/flywheel than what I remember as normal.

I was hesitant to do do, but I put off the shelf auto counterweight and lightweight flywheel on it and sent it to 9,000rpm.

No rotor contact on disassembly and confirmed they are factory side cutting the rotors now.

 

Nelson gonna unlock the tune or is Byran going to start a new one?
Seems like it would be a huge waste if Nelson didn't
I'd never use a tuner that locks the tune regardless of his history.
Definitely complete bullshit to lock a tune you paid for.... but that a different subject.
Goodluck hope to see ya at DGRR 2023

Steve

 

Well...depends. If Steve's theory about what is wrong holds true and we've found the cause, I may keep the tune Nelson put in as it won't need much tweaking, if any. If we can't figure out the cause and just decide to try again, Id likely have Bryan start from scratch. Nelson won't unlock his tune. I'm beginning to have some buyer's remorse on the whole locked tune thing but at this point, I'm going to tackle this one thing at a time. I work in the software industry so I understand protecting your intellectual property. Just because I pay a vendor to deliver service, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm entitled to their source code.

I'll make my final call on the tuning once we (hopefully) have this root cause figured out. I'm about to book my reservation I'm booked for DGRR now. I need a deadline and a goal.

 

no, according to my discussion with Daryl Drummond the RX8 Renesis is all over the place wrt balancing (he worked with Mazda from the beginning building the Mazda Pro Formula Renesis engines) which just like the side seals by letter is another great idea in theory, but fubar in reality. Controlling the manufacturing is the key, but easier said than done. Then it’s a matter of how much can be rejected relative to it becoming an economics issue and compromises are made.

Renesis specific, but along the same lines


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I’m still leaning more to it being apex seal bind of some type because I doubt that these two engines saw high rpm use given they were broken in and then lost compression shortly during initial dyno tuning. The balance would have to be way, way off, but possibly could be a contributing factor.
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So that is actually "yes".

Mazda stopped static balancing the rotors and switched to dynamic balancing the entire rotating assembly instead.

You replace the stock flywheel as Daryl does on a race engine and you lose the dynamic balancing.

 

I did switch to a lightweight flywheel but I did send that off as well to get balanced. I’m definitely curious what Steve will find. I hate that it will likely be another month until we get some info…

 

I feel like balancing is overrated for like 99% of builds.

 

you think he never balanced with the original flywheel?

No, it’s just the typical internet forum garbage talk. How many championship engines did any of you build? Against other men who spent the last 40+ years building hundreds if not more rotary race engines. Exposing all the information you now take for granted like it came from you instead. These guys are all passing on now and there are so many things likely to be lost as a result.

Go be the sow that wallows in the mire of her own ignorance. It’s no skin off my back.
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