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I like your rear bin water tank idea from a mass centraziation stand point over the simple spare tire tank idea or the sake bomb tank idea.
I saw black used bins for $120 the other day? Grab a set and cut those up?
I eventually want to get one of those Porsche? style race fuel cells molded to the bins location so I can ditch the stock gas tank location and be more RX-8 like (FE is a superior chassis to FD for many reasons including mass centralization).
The metal bulkhead over that is going to be a project like making a piece of armor or a 1950s race car body.
If you're just injecting wiper fluid with an AEM setup, there's nothing wrong with the OEM tank--- the volume is sufficient. I've always topped off when filing up with gas, and when really ripping on the car I check between track sessions or after half a day of running through the Dragon etc. Recommend a brand new tank to ensure you're not sucking up any sediment from the mid 90s. IMO you're making an easy decision difficult. I've never had one issue over the decades with the volume of the factory front tank, nor have any of the other owners of FDs who I've helped set up
Speaking of easy decisions, spending money on building my version of a badass FD was never something I had to grapple with. You're either all in and make the best decision you can given your budget and goals or you suffer for it. I'm breaking ***** here, but shame on you for laughing at guys who spent their hard earned money to build their FD into their dream car. Maybe it's Karma warping all these apex seals
Any reason you went with welding a bung vs tapping a hole? I haven’t pulled mine yet, but are the walls not thick enough? I was thinking of just getting a 1/8 NPT tap.
I didn't feel like the elbow was thick enough, and it's a round surface, so sealing would've been more difficult for the ait sensor especially. The pipe threads of a water meth nozzle holder should be ok though.
I'm breaking ***** here, but shame on you for laughing at guys who spent their hard earned money to build their FD into their dream car. Maybe it's Karma warping all these apex seals
Oh it probably is Karma. I think it was more of a "there is no way it cost that much fix up/mod this car". It's definitely death by paper cuts.
My plan wasn't even to use washer fluid. Just water.
If you're just injecting wiper fluid with an AEM setup, there's nothing wrong with the OEM tank--- the volume is sufficient. I've always topped off when filling up with gas, and when really ripping on the car I check between track sessions or after half a day of running through the Dragon etc.
Are you running single or OEM twins? I know when I'm on track I'm on for 25-30 min session and I'll be pedal to the floor as much as possible when not through corners. At 500cc/min, the AEM tank is good for < 8min. Even factoring in corners, I dont see it lasting a whole session. For the street, OEM tank def is fine. Now I'm debating OEM tank first before just going all in.
Wow, 30 minute session is 10 gallons of gas per session I assume?
I wanna say I go through about 1/3 - 1/2 tank per 30 minute session at VIR. The Full Course is about 3.2 miles and the FD runs about a 2 min 37 lap time last time I was there. I put down a 2:17 in the Porsche and I think going back in the FD, I could get into the 2:20's now that I really know the course.
Windsheid washer fluid is mostly water FYI. Water with methanol added to reduce the freezing point and some color and detergent. The 32 deg. F washer fluid has no methanol, the lower the freezing point the more methanol it has.
Dale
@DaleClark If I was to use a lower temp that had any trace of methanol, then I'd have to tune right since the methanol would affect AFRs...?
Thank I found the best solution. AEM makes a 5 gallon tank with built in sensor. Based on dimensions it would fit in the rear hatch below the rear strut bar. The only thing I need to figure out is how the heck to bolt is down so it so doesn't slide around....
If you're just injecting wiper fluid with an AEM setup, there's nothing wrong with the OEM tank--- the volume is sufficient. I've always topped off when filing up with gas, and when really ripping on the car I check between track sessions or after half a day of running through the Dragon etc. Recommend a brand new tank to ensure you're not sucking up any sediment from the mid 90s. IMO you're making an easy decision difficult. I've never had one issue over the decades with the volume of the factory front tank, nor have any of the other owners of FDs who I've helped set up
Speaking of easy decisions, spending money on building my version of a badass FD was never something I had to grapple with. You're either all in and make the best decision you can given your budget and goals or you suffer for it. I'm breaking ***** here, but shame on you for laughing at guys who spent their hard earned money to build their FD into their dream car. Maybe it's Karma warping all these apex seals
it's how I'm running it, thanx for that tip yrs ago haha
Thank I found the best solution. AEM makes a 5 gallon tank with built in sensor. Based on dimensions it would fit in the rear hatch below the rear strut bar. The only thing I need to figure out is how the heck to bolt is down so it so doesn't slide around....
I didn't check the dimensions, but assuming it will fit in that space, I think it would be pretty easy to fabricate bracket(s) that use the rear strut bar for securing the tank to.
Devlis Own #5 in the straight section and triumph ait sensor in the bend of the elbow.
That bung look pretty tall, does your nozzle extend pretty deep into the thread? The AEM nozzle is pretty shallow, I had to ask my fabricator to grind down the bung so it doesn't affect the spray pattern.
Originally Posted by Djseto
Any reason you went with welding a bung vs tapping a hole? I haven’t pulled mine yet, but are the walls not thick enough? I was thinking of just getting a 1/8 NPT tap.
I also have a bung weld in, here's my setup feed from a Euro tank. I'm only running the smallest nozzle from the V2 kit, but it does a great job keeping temp in check during autoX. The Euro tank also last pretty long, I'm still running the same fluid I put in in April before the autoX.
@DaleClark If I was to use a lower temp that had any trace of methanol, then I'd have to tune right since the methanol would affect AFRs...?
I feel like you're overthinking it. 50/50 FTW. Readily available by the case on ebay, or make your own with heet from the auto parts store. 100% Meth vs 50/50 Meth Water vs 100% Water | Supra Forums Yes you will loose a bit of power, no it won't affect afr's enough to hurt the engine, I think your engine is already hurt... As hc has stated the anti knock capability and lower iats are well worth it imo.
That bung look pretty tall, does your nozzle extend pretty deep into the thread? The AEM nozzle is pretty shallow, I had to ask my fabricator to grind down the bung so it doesn't affect the spray pattern.
You know, I thought about that, that the spray pattern could be contacting the bung cause its spaced so far out, but Idk. I'm assuming they cut a large hole in order to weld that bung in. They would have to cut the bung out, build it up and cut and weld the bung deeper I think... I may need to look into that. The upper one, I think the machine shop actually built that one for me, without an actual bung, by just using a tiny piece of round Al stock and milling it flat. Should've just had them do that again for the lower one.
What doesn't make sense to me is how secretive aem is about their nozzles and how much meth it actually delivers and at what pressure. I have used the aem nozzle, devils own, and snow. They are all totally different. A stock FD washer fluid tank would not make it one way from the gas station to the overlook on deals gap with 50/50 boost juice with a #7 devils own nozzle which iirc they claim is 625 cc/min. I switched to a #5 nozzle and now can almost get one run out and back (~20 mi.) The aem nozzle claims 500cc/min and @DaleClark claims a whole DGRR trip on it! This baffles me. Using that logic, the amount of meth I'm running should be drowning my car. With the #7 nozzle on the dyno, I went from 420 to 385hp, a seemingly normal amount imo. In my uneducated calculations, that means the "medium 500cc aem nozzle" is injecting so little it is almost inconsequential.
"aem nozzle, devils own, and snow. They are all totally different. "
while i subscribe to the Dale concept of keeping it simple (for most apps), there seems to be some questions as to nozzles/deliverability. most original AI nozzles tech comes from oil burner apps. they are rated as M10 (630 cc/min at 100 psi), and are linear... an M15 is 50% more than an M10... i ran these simple nozzles until this year when i discovered ProMeth. while "meth" is in the name the product works fine w water or a mix. IMO, PM has for a few years been the leader in AI tech. that doesn't mean you have to go deep diving into their product line but you can benefit by using their nozzles. you will gain better atomisation and certainty as to delivery. i believe they are a direct bolt in as replacement for AEM nozzles which are part plastic. PM is all stainless steel.
there are 18 deliverability graphs on their site covering all the nozzles. deliverability is managed by the number of slots (2-6) and the width of the slots (.102-.0750). check out the link for further info. i have had lots of convo w Rodney and consider him to be both on a mission to improve AI and a good guy.
What doesn't make sense to me is how secretive aem is about their nozzles and how much meth it actually delivers and at what pressure. I have used the aem nozzle, devils own, and snow. They are all totally different. A stock FD washer fluid tank would not make it one way from the gas station to the overlook on deals gap with 50/50 boost juice with a #7 devils own nozzle which iirc they claim is 625 cc/min. I switched to a #5 nozzle and now can almost get one run out and back (~20 mi.) The aem nozzle claims 500cc/min and @DaleClark claims a whole DGRR trip on it! This baffles me. Using that logic, the amount of meth I'm running should be drowning my car. With the #7 nozzle on the dyno, I went from 420 to 385hp, a seemingly normal amount imo. In my uneducated calculations, that means the "medium 500cc aem nozzle" is injecting so little it is almost inconsequential.
It'll be hard to gauge fluid usage between cars, Dale's system doesn't start until like 7psi IIRC, mine starts at 3psi and full spray at 10psi so everyone is different.
Originally Posted by aplscrambles
You know, I thought about that, that the spray pattern could be contacting the bung cause its spaced so far out, but Idk. I'm assuming they cut a large hole in order to weld that bung in. They would have to cut the bung out, build it up and cut and weld the bung deeper I think... I may need to look into that. The upper one, I think the machine shop actually built that one for me, without an actual bung, by just using a tiny piece of round Al stock and milling it flat. Should've just had them do that again for the lower one.
You can take the elbow off and run a test to check spray pattern, I know the AEM kit has a test button, not sure about the Devils Own kit.
And since you have money, I think we need to caution against platimum spark plugs with Methanol since it is a catalyst to decomposition (ie combustion).
Iridium or regular Nickel and of course the 11 heat range on the track.
It took a while, but the AEM kit is installed. I bit the bullet and got the Sakebomb Garage tank for clean OEM look. The tank that came with the AEM kit wouldn't fit anywhere without being a huge eye sore. I got the controller set to start at 6psi and full spray at 14psi. Given that we're in the fall/winter, it's hard to tell a difference. My first test drive was when it was 37 degrees out. The car backfired like crazy in the cold and spooled up so fast at hit the 14psi cut off before I even knew it. I drove it again tonight when it was about 58 degrees out and it felt good but who knows if that's just a placebo. I guess it's time to just drive it more and occasionally check the compression to see if it stays the same. I am just running distilled water. I thought about running every other tank with windshield wiper fluid just to "clean" the internals.
I mounted the controller in the driver footwell with some double sided 3M tape on some sort of OEM module to the upper right of the gas pedal. I figure it's set and forget so out of site is good. I also routed the vacuum line through the steering column seal. I have the line teed to the line for my boost solenoid. My boost solenoid is setup such that if I ever lose the hose or power to it, it reverts back to my 7psi waste gate springs. My other options were the fuel regulator, BoV, or MAP sensor vacuum lines. I feel like if I lost the tee for whatever reason, those are worse things to lose a vacuum line to. I planned to mount the controller LED in the steering column cover dead center. Turns out that dead center doesn't leave enough space for the LED to sit flush without hitting the top of the clock spring. I learned this after I drilled a hole which sucks. I moved it to the left and it works. Now I have e 1/4" diameter hole but thankfully, I can barely see it when in driving position. Ill just throw a black sticker over it if it really bothers me. As for the injector, I mounted it to the Greddy intake elbow. I bought a tap with drill bit from Amazon and it was easy enough to tap a hole and there was enough thickness to get a good thread. My neighbor got a 4 post lift which made running the water line and mounting the pump super easy. Under jack stands would have sucked. I used the JP3 motorsports kit to mound the pump to the rear subframe between it and the gas tank.
While I had everything apart, I also installed a rear view camera for my stereo which is super convenient. All in all, it was fun to wrench away on the car again. Let's hope this brings some stability to this build for a while...
controller is going to mount to the module with the yellow sticker LED for controller Injector location.
I always like using as few vacuum tees as possible. You should have some unused vacuum ports on the back of the upper intake manifold that you could use without having to tee into the MAP sensor. There should be some there for the double throttle stuff, I think there are 2 pointing at the firewall that are unused with no emissions.
@DaleClark I’m teed off boost solenoid now, not MAP. This is a photo of the lines I’m using. If understand correctly, there should be another spare nipple facing the firewall side of the UIM??
10-27-22, 05:10 AM
