Warning :blasianracer29
08-26-13, 07:40 AM
#1
Warning :blasianracer29
OP: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...41000-1037071/
This is the original For Sale listing (in PDF).
Page 1:
PDF*Host
Page 2:
PDF*Host
As you can see there is mention of a pipe being bent causing it not to mate quite correctly. I went into it with that understanding, but if you'll take note of the angles of all his pictures the pipe seems like it isn't too bad. They're all conveniently of a certain angle away from the “bend.”
All of the pictures from Post #1 on page one by Jonathan Togans (forum handle; blasianracer29).
Relevant pictures: 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 (includes others just to provide no exclusion)
1.1
1.2
I'm not sure if the seller is going to work with me on this. He seems hesitant but hopefully he'll do right by me.
This is what I received.
He believes that it was properly represented. He also says that he states that the cat punched out. I find it odd that it wasn't mentioned until post 12. I don't know about other people I generally look at the OP and send a PM to check availability. I saw the connector pipe and wasn't happy since it was mentioned that it was "bent and won't meet the front pipe flush." I didn't think too much of it because I have this sweet twin pipe and I can get a new connector pipe fabbed up. Then I pulled out the cat. and I was shocked when I could see through it. Went online reread the post and didn't see any mention of it. I don't know why someone would buy a cat that's been blown out since the idea of buying a cat is to cut down on smell and maintain some emissions.
I believe the request for my money back isn't of the most appalling expectation and I believe there wasn't sufficient clarity, but he's resistant and says that it's not fair to him even though I sent a PM the same day of delivery.
So here is my proposed solution.
Paypal me $250. That excludes the cost of your shipping +$2.91 and it will be on your doorstep on Thursday (at my cost). I've already shipped it (at my cost) and hope you will solution satisfactory to both parties involved. Think of it as I just gave your car parts an all inclusive vacation. I want you to pay for all shipping costs but because of the line in post 12 I'll eat the $47.09.
Here's your tracking number utilizing the same shipping you used to ship to me and includes every last peanut that was sent to me plus a little extra packing material: 795819759136
I really don't want to have to deal with other means of resolution. Perhaps I'm in the wrong here and my expectations of accurate and concise descriptions of items in the original post and instead of flattering pictures advertising in a more transparent fashion. For example, my own for sale thread: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...allas-1041981/ I don't know I think we have a higher standard here on RX7Club than craigslist, ebay, or numerous other forums.
Hopefully the seller will resolve this on his own terms. Regardless he'll have the cat and connector pipe available for sale again. We have an individual who has received a 3.5" catback in place of an advertised and supposedly confirmed 4" and we have me. No offense to the OP, but perhaps you might want to be more familiar with the items that you wish to sell before creating a for sale thread so that you can represent your items accurately from the beginning. I don't believe it is our duty to play 20 questions on every item that we wish to purchase.
Regardless hope for a peaceful resolution.
This is what I received.
He believes that it was properly represented. He also says that he states that the cat punched out. I find it odd that it wasn't mentioned until post 12. I don't know about other people I generally look at the OP and send a PM to check availability. I saw the connector pipe and wasn't happy since it was mentioned that it was "bent and won't meet the front pipe flush." I didn't think too much of it because I have this sweet twin pipe and I can get a new connector pipe fabbed up. Then I pulled out the cat. and I was shocked when I could see through it. Went online reread the post and didn't see any mention of it. I don't know why someone would buy a cat that's been blown out since the idea of buying a cat is to cut down on smell and maintain some emissions.
I believe the request for my money back isn't of the most appalling expectation and I believe there wasn't sufficient clarity, but he's resistant and says that it's not fair to him even though I sent a PM the same day of delivery.
So here is my proposed solution.
Paypal me $250. That excludes the cost of your shipping +$2.91 and it will be on your doorstep on Thursday (at my cost). I've already shipped it (at my cost) and hope you will solution satisfactory to both parties involved. Think of it as I just gave your car parts an all inclusive vacation. I want you to pay for all shipping costs but because of the line in post 12 I'll eat the $47.09.
Here's your tracking number utilizing the same shipping you used to ship to me and includes every last peanut that was sent to me plus a little extra packing material: 795819759136
I really don't want to have to deal with other means of resolution. Perhaps I'm in the wrong here and my expectations of accurate and concise descriptions of items in the original post and instead of flattering pictures advertising in a more transparent fashion. For example, my own for sale thread: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...allas-1041981/ I don't know I think we have a higher standard here on RX7Club than craigslist, ebay, or numerous other forums.
Hopefully the seller will resolve this on his own terms. Regardless he'll have the cat and connector pipe available for sale again. We have an individual who has received a 3.5" catback in place of an advertised and supposedly confirmed 4" and we have me. No offense to the OP, but perhaps you might want to be more familiar with the items that you wish to sell before creating a for sale thread so that you can represent your items accurately from the beginning. I don't believe it is our duty to play 20 questions on every item that we wish to purchase.
Regardless hope for a peaceful resolution.
Just to let everyone know the seller will not rectify the situation so I'm forced to escalate.
I believe that this doesn't follow the rules of conduct and believe there is sufficient evidence in this thread to conclude that the seller isn't very forthcoming as can be seen in Post #7 as the admittance that a cat was missing in substrate in post #12.
Thank you for trying to make this guy be forthright with his product! Unfortunately I didn't see the fine print, but I think pertinent information like that should be included in the OP. Perhaps that's asking too much.
Rules of the For Sale Section:
I don't believe this met the prerequisites and was misleading and seems very purposeful in that point. If you'll also note how the connector pipe always has the good side facing the camera. Coincidence?
As it sits I have shipped the item back to the seller at my expense and will pay the shipping costs to ship the item both ways (at $47.09 cost to me) and only ask for the $250 in return. He claims that he will refuse the package and that the item was sold as-is.
If that's the way this individual would like to conduct business then I feel that it should be know to buy from this individual with caution as we have legendrx7 who has an item that he didn't order yet somehow got a picture of a 4" pipe despite it arriving at 3.5" and me with a pile of scrap metal that will neither suppress sound nor noxious fumes making it useless to me.
Perhaps he should be informed and forthcoming on the items that he possess before selling on here. "Hell, Very Rare HKS titanium cat-back + twin catalyst $1000" - it's so rare that it doesn't exist.
Also is upset that he "lost $150" in parting the items out. Like it was to my benefit. I responded quickly, paid quickly, and upon opening the package the day it arrived sent a PM saying that the item was unsatisfactory and it's been running around in circles through PM with this guy ever since.
Just a warning to all who may do business with this individual that I feel it should be known.
I believe that this doesn't follow the rules of conduct and believe there is sufficient evidence in this thread to conclude that the seller isn't very forthcoming as can be seen in Post #7 as the admittance that a cat was missing in substrate in post #12.
Thank you for trying to make this guy be forthright with his product! Unfortunately I didn't see the fine print, but I think pertinent information like that should be included in the OP. Perhaps that's asking too much.
Rules of the For Sale Section:
I don't believe this met the prerequisites and was misleading and seems very purposeful in that point. If you'll also note how the connector pipe always has the good side facing the camera. Coincidence?
As it sits I have shipped the item back to the seller at my expense and will pay the shipping costs to ship the item both ways (at $47.09 cost to me) and only ask for the $250 in return. He claims that he will refuse the package and that the item was sold as-is.
If that's the way this individual would like to conduct business then I feel that it should be know to buy from this individual with caution as we have legendrx7 who has an item that he didn't order yet somehow got a picture of a 4" pipe despite it arriving at 3.5" and me with a pile of scrap metal that will neither suppress sound nor noxious fumes making it useless to me.
Perhaps he should be informed and forthcoming on the items that he possess before selling on here. "Hell, Very Rare HKS titanium cat-back + twin catalyst $1000" - it's so rare that it doesn't exist.
Also is upset that he "lost $150" in parting the items out. Like it was to my benefit. I responded quickly, paid quickly, and upon opening the package the day it arrived sent a PM saying that the item was unsatisfactory and it's been running around in circles through PM with this guy ever since.
Just a warning to all who may do business with this individual that I feel it should be known.
This is the original For Sale listing (in PDF).
Page 1:
PDF*Host
Page 2:
PDF*Host
As you can see there is mention of a pipe being bent causing it not to mate quite correctly. I went into it with that understanding, but if you'll take note of the angles of all his pictures the pipe seems like it isn't too bad. They're all conveniently of a certain angle away from the “bend.”
All of the pictures from Post #1 on page one by Jonathan Togans (forum handle; blasianracer29).
Relevant pictures: 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 (includes others just to provide no exclusion)
1.1
1.2
08-26-13, 07:43 AM
#3
This was the first part of the item that I received.
I find it interesting that that every angle the seller took was a good one. He mentions it being bent in post one so I suppose I cannot complain, but I was taken aback by the condition of that item when I opened the package. Here is the quote from him in Post #1: “Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches. Asking $1000 pick up only for now.”
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you'll notice in the second post you will see a Forum Vendor who specializes in import/export of rare Japanese car parts states that the “HKS Exhaust System” cannot be an HKS exhaust system because they didn't make one in titanium. He also recommends that he measure the piping diameter to ensure buyers that it is a 4”.
He goes on to state that he believes it is 4” in post #4: “When I got it, it was labeled a a HKS exhaust, the only reason why I put it as an HKS. Regardless, it's a beautiful exhaust system. Yes, I believe it is 4 inch front to back. I had to cut my own gaskets out when I installed it.”
If you'll take note on Post #25 the buyer of the cat-back says that he wants to see photos showing it was indeed 4” to which Jonathan Togans responds, “No problem. I can do that for ya.”
The buyer of the cat-back updates in post #30. “update..... I received the exhaust this week and the condition was as described. However, the exhaust tubing ended up being 90mm (3.5"). I called the seller and we worked out a partial refund. He was very fair and apologized for the inconvenience.”
This shows a lack of competence (and ability to use a tape measure) when it comes to describing cars parts and how he took a picture confirming the piping's diameter is beyond me. Even upon direct request of a picture with a ruler somehow the buyer was misled. A partial refund was issued to that buyer and both parties left somewhat satisfied, but in the end the buyer still received a misrepresented product.
So the part I bought was two pieces. It was the twin catalytic cover section and the section that connects it to the cat-back exhaust system (the foremost section in from post #10 - 10.3 and the shorter section in 10.1).
The purpose of a catalytic converter is for emissions purposes on road going vehicles to control pollutants and as a byproduct it controls noise as well. A high-flow cat – like that which was advertised maintains emissions controls but will allow better airflow for more power (especially in a twin catalytic converter configuration like is seen). Cats are welded into the pipe and are made up of a “substrate” that allows them to control emissions. I see no mention of this in the original post and will once again go back and refer to the seller's quote, “Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches.”
I was shocked by the mangled extension pipe which I pictured quite some time ago, but was willing to have a new one made by a local fabricator and was excited to use the catalytic converter section anyways. I pulled it out and I see one of the cat is blown-out. Meaning the substrate that controls sound and emissions is absent from one of the cats. I was quite upset at this as new catalytic converters are quite expensive and there is a great degree of difficulty in cutting the old one out and finding whatever kind of cat this is purchasing it and having a fabricator try to make it inline with this one. That would cost more that the purchase price that I paid for this item in the first place (ie. Bare Catalytic Converters, Stainless Steel Metallic Substrate / pair, 3" I/O). As it sits this is not good for suppressing noise, pollution, or creating power. Here are pictures that I took upon arrival.
This is what a cat's substrate is supposed to look like:
This is what a cat that has lost its substrate looks like:
Two more pictures for clearer reference:
Alarmed I contacted the seller saying that the items was misrepresented. He claims that he said that a cat was “gutted.” Jonathan Togans did mention it in post #12.
“I'll post up my response to moehler's (Poster #7) question he asked me, to keep you all on the same page to be fair.
I'm not sure on the mileage and internal condition of the cats. I do know that one of them is gutted out and its made out of stainless steel. I don't know the exact measurement but I believe its 4 inch piping. I had to make my own gaskets b/c my 3.5 inch gaskets from my other exhaust no where near fit. The extension pipe is bent up and would need to be replaced unless you know somewhere that could straighten out titanium. I hope that answers your questions.”
Please note that he didn't come forward with a cat “being gutted” until pictures were requested by Mohler in Post #7. Then it isn't mentioned until Post #12 and that was at the request of Mohler because he believed that the information not being divulged was inappropriate (as do I). Many forum goers read the first post and trust that pertinent information is in there unless a seller says that pictures will be forthcoming. Generally the original for sale post should be forthcoming and flaws noted instead of making other people have to ask just the right question to get the right answer. I believe this is very unethical especially on an item to be shipped. Generally sellers in a forum capacity make sure that the buyer is satisfied and the exchange deemed fair by both parties.
I wrote my response on Post #33 (of page 2). Generally there is a lot of banter in for sale threads and many go on for 7+ pages so you have to represent the items accurately initially. So suppose he did say it in post #12 after another member wrung it out of him. When I saw the post it was already on Page #2. I click on 'Page2' and see the price and click on page one to read the description of the product. Scroll down and look at some pictures. With thousands of users and many people selling on these things we don't necessarily read every comment and remember which is the seller and which is an interested party. This isn't about fine print. He's showed a lack of knowledge about automotive parts, inability to use a ruler, and seems to not be very forthcoming in presentation of his goods. He claims “as-is” yet doesn't mention anywhere in the posts “as-is.”
Since he had mentioned the gutted cat somewhere in the post I have agreed to a refund of $250 and the return of the product. Original agreed price was $250 + shipping which he claimed was $25. I have shipped the item back to the seller (at my cost) via FedEx. https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=795819759136
He has said that he will refuse the package and hides behind “as-is” which is not mentioned anywhere in the post. He has become obstinate, probably due to the fact that he found a sucker to buy his scrap metal and with the introduction of my pictures to his for sale thread he will have a very difficult time selling an items that's real value is whatever the scrap yard will pay you for the metal by weight. I think I am being very fair and contacted the seller the same day that it arrived saying how it was unsatisfactory. I could have overlooked the “bent” pipe that was conveniently always pictured with the good side facing the camera, but catalytic converter system is useless too. I'll eat the cost of shipping both ways which will total $47.09 and he will get his “product” back in the same condition down to every last packing peanut and it even includes some extra packing materials since it was so poorly packed. All I ask for is the return of the agreed upon price (post #27) of $250. He loses absolutely no money and has his product back.
Am I crazy to think this is fair to all parties involved especially when I contacted him the same day as arrival? I would expect this of someone who knows they pulled the wool over someones eyes and that's exactly the kind of person this member is. Probably upset because I posted pictures of the product that will make it much more difficult to sell now. 
I find it interesting that that every angle the seller took was a good one. He mentions it being bent in post one so I suppose I cannot complain, but I was taken aback by the condition of that item when I opened the package. Here is the quote from him in Post #1: “Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches. Asking $1000 pick up only for now.”
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you'll notice in the second post you will see a Forum Vendor who specializes in import/export of rare Japanese car parts states that the “HKS Exhaust System” cannot be an HKS exhaust system because they didn't make one in titanium. He also recommends that he measure the piping diameter to ensure buyers that it is a 4”.
He goes on to state that he believes it is 4” in post #4: “When I got it, it was labeled a a HKS exhaust, the only reason why I put it as an HKS. Regardless, it's a beautiful exhaust system. Yes, I believe it is 4 inch front to back. I had to cut my own gaskets out when I installed it.”
If you'll take note on Post #25 the buyer of the cat-back says that he wants to see photos showing it was indeed 4” to which Jonathan Togans responds, “No problem. I can do that for ya.”
The buyer of the cat-back updates in post #30. “update..... I received the exhaust this week and the condition was as described. However, the exhaust tubing ended up being 90mm (3.5"). I called the seller and we worked out a partial refund. He was very fair and apologized for the inconvenience.”
This shows a lack of competence (and ability to use a tape measure) when it comes to describing cars parts and how he took a picture confirming the piping's diameter is beyond me. Even upon direct request of a picture with a ruler somehow the buyer was misled. A partial refund was issued to that buyer and both parties left somewhat satisfied, but in the end the buyer still received a misrepresented product.
So the part I bought was two pieces. It was the twin catalytic cover section and the section that connects it to the cat-back exhaust system (the foremost section in from post #10 - 10.3 and the shorter section in 10.1).
The purpose of a catalytic converter is for emissions purposes on road going vehicles to control pollutants and as a byproduct it controls noise as well. A high-flow cat – like that which was advertised maintains emissions controls but will allow better airflow for more power (especially in a twin catalytic converter configuration like is seen). Cats are welded into the pipe and are made up of a “substrate” that allows them to control emissions. I see no mention of this in the original post and will once again go back and refer to the seller's quote, “Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches.”
I was shocked by the mangled extension pipe which I pictured quite some time ago, but was willing to have a new one made by a local fabricator and was excited to use the catalytic converter section anyways. I pulled it out and I see one of the cat is blown-out. Meaning the substrate that controls sound and emissions is absent from one of the cats. I was quite upset at this as new catalytic converters are quite expensive and there is a great degree of difficulty in cutting the old one out and finding whatever kind of cat this is purchasing it and having a fabricator try to make it inline with this one. That would cost more that the purchase price that I paid for this item in the first place (ie. Bare Catalytic Converters, Stainless Steel Metallic Substrate / pair, 3" I/O). As it sits this is not good for suppressing noise, pollution, or creating power. Here are pictures that I took upon arrival.
This is what a cat's substrate is supposed to look like:
This is what a cat that has lost its substrate looks like:
Two more pictures for clearer reference:
Alarmed I contacted the seller saying that the items was misrepresented. He claims that he said that a cat was “gutted.” Jonathan Togans did mention it in post #12.
“I'll post up my response to moehler's (Poster #7) question he asked me, to keep you all on the same page to be fair.
I'm not sure on the mileage and internal condition of the cats. I do know that one of them is gutted out and its made out of stainless steel. I don't know the exact measurement but I believe its 4 inch piping. I had to make my own gaskets b/c my 3.5 inch gaskets from my other exhaust no where near fit. The extension pipe is bent up and would need to be replaced unless you know somewhere that could straighten out titanium. I hope that answers your questions.”
Please note that he didn't come forward with a cat “being gutted” until pictures were requested by Mohler in Post #7. Then it isn't mentioned until Post #12 and that was at the request of Mohler because he believed that the information not being divulged was inappropriate (as do I). Many forum goers read the first post and trust that pertinent information is in there unless a seller says that pictures will be forthcoming. Generally the original for sale post should be forthcoming and flaws noted instead of making other people have to ask just the right question to get the right answer. I believe this is very unethical especially on an item to be shipped. Generally sellers in a forum capacity make sure that the buyer is satisfied and the exchange deemed fair by both parties.
I wrote my response on Post #33 (of page 2). Generally there is a lot of banter in for sale threads and many go on for 7+ pages so you have to represent the items accurately initially. So suppose he did say it in post #12 after another member wrung it out of him. When I saw the post it was already on Page #2. I click on 'Page2' and see the price and click on page one to read the description of the product. Scroll down and look at some pictures. With thousands of users and many people selling on these things we don't necessarily read every comment and remember which is the seller and which is an interested party. This isn't about fine print. He's showed a lack of knowledge about automotive parts, inability to use a ruler, and seems to not be very forthcoming in presentation of his goods. He claims “as-is” yet doesn't mention anywhere in the posts “as-is.”
Since he had mentioned the gutted cat somewhere in the post I have agreed to a refund of $250 and the return of the product. Original agreed price was $250 + shipping which he claimed was $25. I have shipped the item back to the seller (at my cost) via FedEx. https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=795819759136
He has said that he will refuse the package and hides behind “as-is” which is not mentioned anywhere in the post. He has become obstinate, probably due to the fact that he found a sucker to buy his scrap metal and with the introduction of my pictures to his for sale thread he will have a very difficult time selling an items that's real value is whatever the scrap yard will pay you for the metal by weight. I think I am being very fair and contacted the seller the same day that it arrived saying how it was unsatisfactory. I could have overlooked the “bent” pipe that was conveniently always pictured with the good side facing the camera, but catalytic converter system is useless too. I'll eat the cost of shipping both ways which will total $47.09 and he will get his “product” back in the same condition down to every last packing peanut and it even includes some extra packing materials since it was so poorly packed. All I ask for is the return of the agreed upon price (post #27) of $250. He loses absolutely no money and has his product back.
Am I crazy to think this is fair to all parties involved especially when I contacted him the same day as arrival?
I would expect this of someone who knows they pulled the wool over someones eyes and that's exactly the kind of person this member is. Probably upset because I posted pictures of the product that will make it much more difficult to sell now.
08-26-13, 07:56 AM
#4
Glad to see I pulled an all-nighter writing this stuff up on the first day of classes. That has to be some kind of record. But it is for the good of the community.
Oh and delighted to see he's busy shopping for Hotwater Lab headlights for $900 and a motor for $1500 yet refusing to take his $250 "items" back.
But it is for the good of the community. Oh and delighted to see he's busy shopping for Hotwater Lab headlights for $900 and a motor for $1500 yet refusing to take his $250 "items" back.
08-26-13, 08:20 AM
#5
PDF*Host
Here's a PDF of the PM he sent where he says that the two pipes pictured don't go together.
Yet if you look at his picture it seems as though all of the titanium is mounted together.
--MY PM--------------------------------------------
--His response-----------------------------------------
Interesting:
but then there's one I suppose that is supposedly the "proper configuration."
Here's a PDF of the PM he sent where he says that the two pipes pictured don't go together.
Yet if you look at his picture it seems as though all of the titanium is mounted together.
--MY PM--------------------------------------------
I'm not quite clear in which piece is bent and not mating properly. Could you specify please?
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece.
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece.
It's the extension pipe that doesn't mate to the front pipe correctly. The number 3 you marked doesn't go together. The front of the cat back connects to the twin cats, not the ext pipe. And yes it is titanium but I made a mistake, it's a 3.75" pipe.
but then there's one I suppose that is supposedly the "proper configuration."
08-26-13, 05:06 PM
#6
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I must agree with you--especially since the part we are talking about can create legal issues for whoever might buy it, depending on the state they live in. Something as important as the cat being punched needed to be laid out from the start; instead, he said that the only problem was that the one piece was bent.
I'm sending a PM to him, asking him to respond in here. Hopefully he drops in.
I'm sending a PM to him, asking him to respond in here. Hopefully he drops in.
08-27-13, 12:05 AM
#7
I must agree with you--especially since the part we are talking about can create legal issues for whoever might buy it, depending on the state they live in. Something as important as the cat being punched needed to be laid out from the start; instead, he said that the only problem was that the one piece was bent.
I'm sending a PM to him, asking him to respond in here. Hopefully he drops in.
I'm sending a PM to him, asking him to respond in here. Hopefully he drops in.
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08-27-13, 12:07 AM
#8
First off, I do admit that I did not realize that none of my pictures show the bent side of the extension pipe. I did not plan to take pictures of it like that, but I do mention that the pipe is bent.
Second, I should not be to blame here since Mike Thomas (since you want to use real names) did not do his homework before purchasing used parts. All of the facts about the item were within the thread and it is up to the buyer to request for more information or pictures, which I would have been happy to provide him with. The only thing Mike Thomas asked before sending the payment was...
"I'm not quite clear in which piece is bent and not mating properly. Could you specify please?
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece."
Because of his prompt payment and lack of questions, I assumed he was aware of the condition since I explained it during the thread. Usually I would be flexible with issues that arise if I am in the wrong, which legendrx7 can explain to you, but in this instances I do not see why I should be obligated to refund him the money when its his fault for not doing his homework. The facts were right there and he was in contact with me. The $250 is not the case here b/c I could just not care and even respond to him if I wanted to swindle him for a few bucks. The fact of the matter is, is that I should not be the one to blame here b/c he is unhappy with his purchase. Its about being right or wrong and I didn't do anything wrong. Call me a killer when I'm not and I will fight the case until the day I die. Oh and lastly, bringing up me keeping a higher standard b/c I'm in the military is pretty low. Nobody likes being taken advantage of, not even a military member like myself. Then threatening me with utilizing your connections on the base here to somehow take action against me, is also not keeping to higher standard that this whole community expects.
So I've said my peace, you all can think of me what you will and admins, do what you need to do if that means ban me, since that is one of my options of action here. I've been on this forum for many years and to go out b/c of some poor sport, is just pretty low.
Second, I should not be to blame here since Mike Thomas (since you want to use real names) did not do his homework before purchasing used parts. All of the facts about the item were within the thread and it is up to the buyer to request for more information or pictures, which I would have been happy to provide him with. The only thing Mike Thomas asked before sending the payment was...
"I'm not quite clear in which piece is bent and not mating properly. Could you specify please?
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece."
Because of his prompt payment and lack of questions, I assumed he was aware of the condition since I explained it during the thread. Usually I would be flexible with issues that arise if I am in the wrong, which legendrx7 can explain to you, but in this instances I do not see why I should be obligated to refund him the money when its his fault for not doing his homework. The facts were right there and he was in contact with me. The $250 is not the case here b/c I could just not care and even respond to him if I wanted to swindle him for a few bucks. The fact of the matter is, is that I should not be the one to blame here b/c he is unhappy with his purchase. Its about being right or wrong and I didn't do anything wrong. Call me a killer when I'm not and I will fight the case until the day I die. Oh and lastly, bringing up me keeping a higher standard b/c I'm in the military is pretty low. Nobody likes being taken advantage of, not even a military member like myself. Then threatening me with utilizing your connections on the base here to somehow take action against me, is also not keeping to higher standard that this whole community expects.
So I've said my peace, you all can think of me what you will and admins, do what you need to do if that means ban me, since that is one of my options of action here. I've been on this forum for many years and to go out b/c of some poor sport, is just pretty low.
08-27-13, 07:14 AM
#9
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Second, I should not be to blame here since Mike Thomas (since you want to use real names) did not do his homework before purchasing used parts.
All of the facts about the item were within the thread and it is up to the buyer to request for more information or pictures, which I would have been happy to provide him with. The only thing Mike Thomas asked before sending the payment was...
"I'm not quite clear in which piece is bent and not mating properly. Could you specify please?
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece."
"I'm not quite clear in which piece is bent and not mating properly. Could you specify please?
Also is the connector pipe (the one between the cats and the catback) titanium? Are the outlets all 4 inch?
Sorry just trying to get some clarification as I'm not that familiar with this piece."
posted by you
Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches.
Only bad thing is the extension pipe is bent and will not meet the front pipe flush. Rest of exhaust is in good condition, very little scratches.
Because of his prompt payment and lack of questions, I assumed he was aware of the condition since I explained it during the thread.
Usually I would be flexible with issues that arise if I am in the wrong
which legendrx7 can explain to you, but in this instances I do not see why I should be obligated to refund him the money when its his fault for not doing his homework.
1--you listed them under the wrong brand name.
2--you listed the wrong size.
3--you failed to note the condition of the cat until way down the thread.
NONE of those things are his responsibility, they are yours.
The $250 is not the case here
b/c I could just not care and even respond to him if I wanted to swindle him for a few bucks. The fact of the matter is, is that I should not be the one to blame here b/c he is unhappy with his purchase.
Recently we had another thread, where a seller sold some parts that he listed as being one size, and they were the smaller size instead. He did not bother to check, just like you did not. Here's the thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/bad-fugly-me...-here-1040313/
In that thread, the seller was to refund the money to the buyer and the buyer was to ship the parts back to the seller. It was determined that the seller was to cover cost of return shipping too--since his error in listing the parts caused the mess, just like in your case. And in this case, no one is asking you to cover shipping--he's asking for a refund so that both of you will be made whole as though this transaction never happened. You are not out any money. He has been plenty easy to work with on that. Refund the guy his money and move on already.
Oh and lastly, bringing up me keeping a higher standard b/c I'm in the military is pretty low. Nobody likes being taken advantage of, not even a military member like myself. Then threatening me with utilizing your connections on the base here to somehow take action against me, is also not keeping to higher standard that this whole community expects.
2--You ARE held to a different standard because youre military. It comes with the territory, deal with it. Many times, civilian police dont bother getting involved in things like this, whereas your CO will at the very least pull you in for a chat if they are notified of dealings that are less than appropriate. Being prior Navy myself, I remember seeing various times when others were pulled in for either an informal chat or even a Captain's Mast....
So I've said my peace, you all can think of me what you will and admins, do what you need to do if that means ban me, since that is one of my options of action here. I've been on this forum for many years and to go out b/c of some poor sport, is just pretty low.
08-27-13, 10:44 AM
#10
I have no issue with my real name being used.
Thank you for the support. I will definitely use a lot more discretion and buy from reputable sellers from now on on the forums. I've had lots of good luck utilizing our classifieds over the years.
Here's a little of my family background. Grandfather - Navy, Uncle - Army, Uncle - still works with the Navy despite retiring after 30+ years. Father - retired Air Force. Born on Kunsan, raised on Osan, Mountain Home, Chanute, and Goodfellow. I'm somewhat familiar with military protocols and I have guidance from people who know a lot more than me.
I haven't contacted anyone, only asked that we resolve it in a simple easy fashion. As the seller continued to play the victim complaining about how he lost $150 splitting the two items up (last time I checked 750+250 still equals 1000) I continued to slowly apply leverage as well as ship it back. It's already en route but he his response to that:
I have friends in every branch of the military and simply told him I would utilize them to possibly get in contact with his Commanding Officer. To which he replied:
The only reason I could see him not wanting to return my money is because he believes that there isn't $250 in value there. Perhaps $250 seems trivial to some, but my work history is in warehousing. Most money I've made in my life is $11.50/hr to work in a warehouse with no AC in Texas with temps of 110+ inside. I bought my RX7 cash working at $8.50 cents an hour. I value my dollars and have worked very hard for them and with me going back to college I'm quite protective over my dollars. I know this is like $20 on the average FD owner's scale.
Anyways I haven't contacted anyone though I have information I need now, because I really don't like causing any issues in the workplace, inconveniencing a Commanding Officer if it is not absolutely necessary. Still trying to reason with him, but I'll continue to exhaust my other options and hopefully we can still resolve this like adults and not waste anyone's time (aside from our own).
Thank you for the support. I will definitely use a lot more discretion and buy from reputable sellers from now on on the forums. I've had lots of good luck utilizing our classifieds over the years.
Here's a little of my family background. Grandfather - Navy, Uncle - Army, Uncle - still works with the Navy despite retiring after 30+ years. Father - retired Air Force. Born on Kunsan, raised on Osan, Mountain Home, Chanute, and Goodfellow. I'm somewhat familiar with military protocols and I have guidance from people who know a lot more than me.
I haven't contacted anyone, only asked that we resolve it in a simple easy fashion. As the seller continued to play the victim complaining about how he lost $150 splitting the two items up (last time I checked 750+250 still equals 1000) I continued to slowly apply leverage as well as ship it back. It's already en route but he his response to that:
I appreciate your kind words but that still doesn't change the fact the sale is final. You sent me the money without acquiring enough information to satisfy you. I already took a loss on separating this into two different sales, so I'm out $150 from what I orginally paid. Me being a military member shouldn't mean I should be taken advantage of for my kindness. I am always flexible when I need to be, in this instance I have been honest about everything. If you conduct business the way you say you do, you would understand where I'm coming from. If the part comes back here, I will only do the right thing and reject the package to have them send it back bc you bought it as is.
I have friends in every branch of the military and simply told him I would utilize them to possibly get in contact with his Commanding Officer. To which he replied:
Go to the service all you want, their just gonna brush off this matter and move on with their lives seeing as I don't belong to the Air Force here nor could the proper chain of command could touch me at this point.
Plain and simple, I don't feel I need to compensate you for anything. The sale was final and now is your responsibility. If you don't like it, you sell it. Right now I'm trying to be nice about this but im getting to the point where I don't care what you have to say anymore. Goodnight.
Plain and simple, I don't feel I need to compensate you for anything. The sale was final and now is your responsibility. If you don't like it, you sell it. Right now I'm trying to be nice about this but im getting to the point where I don't care what you have to say anymore. Goodnight.
Anyways I haven't contacted anyone though I have information I need now, because I really don't like causing any issues in the workplace, inconveniencing a Commanding Officer if it is not absolutely necessary. Still trying to reason with him, but I'll continue to exhaust my other options and hopefully we can still resolve this like adults and not waste anyone's time (aside from our own).
08-27-13, 01:35 PM
#12
The refund is much appreciated and I'm sorry that it had to escalate to this point. I harbor no ill will and would just like to say congrats on getting out, and I wish you the very best in your future.
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