PayPal Buyer Protection is a Joke
10-10-07, 12:44 AM
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PayPal Buyer Protection is a Joke
Hi,
I just want everyone to know that if you use PayPal and think your transaction is protected, think again. I am a PayPal member in good standing for a long time (long before Ebay took over).
I had a recent transaction go bad on me. (I am not going into specific details about that transaction yet). I ordered a product from a forum member and did not receive what I had specifically ordered.
I figured I would dispute the claim through PayPal. They always claim they have buyer protection, don't they?? Not only that, they encourage it. They say so on their website. No matter what the problem is, we will help resolve it is what I thought.
So I opened a dispute:
_____________Paypal Informaton:
Before you can file a claim and ask PayPal to investigate a problem transaction, you must usually open a dispute. During a dispute, you are encouraged to communicate directly with your seller to work out your problem transaction.
_____________
So I sent a message in the dispute to the seller. I stated that the product that was sent me was not what I requested or paid for. I clearly stated in the PayPal Payment what I ordered and what we had agreed upon, but the product that was sent something else, not what I ordered. I mentioned that I sent him an email stating all the facts of the matter. I requested an immediate refund and I would return the product pre-paid to him. He would be out about $6 and I would be out about $10 to return the shipment.
I completed this dispute transaction on 10/6/2007 23:02 PDT - PayPal Time
Now the next step is for the seller to communicate with the buyer and back and forth in this forum until a resolution is achieved. Once all communications are completed there would be two outcomes, an agreed solution or a disagreement. At this point, PayPal states the following:
______________Paypal Information:
If you feel that you are unable to resolve the issue, you or your seller can ask PayPal to investigate by escalating to a claim. When you escalate to a claim, you are asking PayPal to investigate and decide the outcome. A dispute must be escalated to a claim within 20 of the date the dispute was opened.
_______________
So I go off to bed, thinking that I would see an answer in the morning and a reply to my email that I sent at the same time to the seller clearly stating what he did wrong and what I thought we had discussed, bought, and paid for.
I woke up the next day to find no reply to my email. I checked my work email, no reply there. I checked my Private Mesage and no reply there either. So now I log onto PayPal and go to the resolution center tab and open up the link to my resolutions. Guess what!!! The dispute was escalated to a claim by the seller after entering his comments (and lies, which he even proves in his own statement). This transaction occurred at 10/7/2007 06:59 PDT - Paypal Time, less than 8 hours later. The case was closed and my dispute was lost.
I asked WHAT???? WHY???? Here is why:
________________Paypal reply:
Dear Tim McCreary,
You have chosen to escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with the seller, you are asking PayPal to investigate the
case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed
any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center.
Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.
-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------
Transaction Date: Oct 2, 2007
Transaction Amount: *******
Your Transaction ID: ********
Seller's Transaction ID: *******
Case Number: ********
Seller's Name: *******
Seller's Email: *******
_______________________
Wait a minute, I did not request this dispute to be escalated to a claim! Who did? (The SELLER DID!) I don't understand, I thought I had protection? I thought we were going to discuss this? I did all the right things, let the money transfer from my checking account instead of a credit card, used my verified address, etc. Why was I not contacted and solicited for my information or my side of the story? Where is the justice and fairness here that I thought Paypal secured when I initially opened my account??
So I decide to call.
This is what they told me on the phone:
Since this transaction was outside of eBay, the buyer protection does not apply. Only the Buyer Complaint Policy. Since you received a product, we can do nothing. If you purchased that product on eBay, then we could do something about it if the product was significantly different. He sympathized with me and suggested disputing the Credit Card. I told him I did not use one because of the buyer protection I thought I had. He then suggested two fraud websites to pursue.
__________________Paypal information:
Buyer Complaint Policy
PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy covers:
An item that you paid for but never received
An eBay item that is significantly different than what was described in the listing
__________________
It's not that the buyer was right and I was wrong. It had nothing to do with justice or what was fair. I lost this case long before I even opened the complaint!!! It all boiled down that I did not use eBay to buy my product! When I used PayPal in the past, it was covered. Now that PayPal was bought by Ebay, the rules changed. They did notifiy me, but I ask anyone to go in and find this information easily.
Here's the thing. You can order anything outside of eBay off of anyone, pay with PayPal and when they send it, you recieve it. What's inside the box? A DOG TURD!!! You call Paypal up and say, "I ordered and bought a solid gold dog statue worth $5000 and the seller sent me a real dog turd!!! I want my money back!!! He didn't send me what I thought I bought"
You file the claim and check the reason code boxes that apply, one of which is this: NOT AS DESCRIBED. Guess what, you just screwed yourself!!
This will be the final answer:
___________
Dear Timothy McCreary,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
As stated in our User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the
shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes
or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this
transaction or issue a refund.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Kathleen
PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company
_______________________
FROM NOW ON, I WILL USE A CREDIT CARD FOR ALL PAYPAL TRANSACTIONS OUTSIDE OF EBAY!!!! THIS WAY, I CAN DISPUTE IT THROUGH THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY INSTEAD!!!!
Luckily, the seller used the Post Office and he claimed he was selling me one product and substitued another. This is fraud that is called bait-and-switch and since he used the US Post Office, it now falls under thing called MAIL FRAUD. Not only that, he did me a favor by getting a tracking number. Now it has documented and traceable ownership.
I'm going to give him until Friday to refund the money, then it is off to the post office with the paperwork!!!
In closing, Paypal has changed drastically since I began using it. Anyone who thinks they have protection better read carefully. Luckily my financial loss was relatively low. Imagine if I bought an engine or transmission? It makes you think.
Sincerely
Tim McCreary
I just want everyone to know that if you use PayPal and think your transaction is protected, think again. I am a PayPal member in good standing for a long time (long before Ebay took over).
I had a recent transaction go bad on me. (I am not going into specific details about that transaction yet). I ordered a product from a forum member and did not receive what I had specifically ordered.
I figured I would dispute the claim through PayPal. They always claim they have buyer protection, don't they?? Not only that, they encourage it. They say so on their website. No matter what the problem is, we will help resolve it is what I thought.
So I opened a dispute:
_____________Paypal Informaton:
Before you can file a claim and ask PayPal to investigate a problem transaction, you must usually open a dispute. During a dispute, you are encouraged to communicate directly with your seller to work out your problem transaction.
_____________
So I sent a message in the dispute to the seller. I stated that the product that was sent me was not what I requested or paid for. I clearly stated in the PayPal Payment what I ordered and what we had agreed upon, but the product that was sent something else, not what I ordered. I mentioned that I sent him an email stating all the facts of the matter. I requested an immediate refund and I would return the product pre-paid to him. He would be out about $6 and I would be out about $10 to return the shipment.
I completed this dispute transaction on 10/6/2007 23:02 PDT - PayPal Time
Now the next step is for the seller to communicate with the buyer and back and forth in this forum until a resolution is achieved. Once all communications are completed there would be two outcomes, an agreed solution or a disagreement. At this point, PayPal states the following:
______________Paypal Information:
If you feel that you are unable to resolve the issue, you or your seller can ask PayPal to investigate by escalating to a claim. When you escalate to a claim, you are asking PayPal to investigate and decide the outcome. A dispute must be escalated to a claim within 20 of the date the dispute was opened.
_______________
So I go off to bed, thinking that I would see an answer in the morning and a reply to my email that I sent at the same time to the seller clearly stating what he did wrong and what I thought we had discussed, bought, and paid for.
I woke up the next day to find no reply to my email. I checked my work email, no reply there. I checked my Private Mesage and no reply there either. So now I log onto PayPal and go to the resolution center tab and open up the link to my resolutions. Guess what!!! The dispute was escalated to a claim by the seller after entering his comments (and lies, which he even proves in his own statement). This transaction occurred at 10/7/2007 06:59 PDT - Paypal Time, less than 8 hours later. The case was closed and my dispute was lost.
I asked WHAT???? WHY???? Here is why:
________________Paypal reply:
Dear Tim McCreary,
You have chosen to escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with the seller, you are asking PayPal to investigate the
case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed
any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center.
Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.
-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------
Transaction Date: Oct 2, 2007
Transaction Amount: *******
Your Transaction ID: ********
Seller's Transaction ID: *******
Case Number: ********
Seller's Name: *******
Seller's Email: *******
_______________________
Wait a minute, I did not request this dispute to be escalated to a claim! Who did? (The SELLER DID!) I don't understand, I thought I had protection? I thought we were going to discuss this? I did all the right things, let the money transfer from my checking account instead of a credit card, used my verified address, etc. Why was I not contacted and solicited for my information or my side of the story? Where is the justice and fairness here that I thought Paypal secured when I initially opened my account??
So I decide to call.
This is what they told me on the phone:
Since this transaction was outside of eBay, the buyer protection does not apply. Only the Buyer Complaint Policy. Since you received a product, we can do nothing. If you purchased that product on eBay, then we could do something about it if the product was significantly different. He sympathized with me and suggested disputing the Credit Card. I told him I did not use one because of the buyer protection I thought I had. He then suggested two fraud websites to pursue.
__________________Paypal information:
Buyer Complaint Policy
PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy covers:
An item that you paid for but never received
An eBay item that is significantly different than what was described in the listing
__________________
It's not that the buyer was right and I was wrong. It had nothing to do with justice or what was fair. I lost this case long before I even opened the complaint!!! It all boiled down that I did not use eBay to buy my product! When I used PayPal in the past, it was covered. Now that PayPal was bought by Ebay, the rules changed. They did notifiy me, but I ask anyone to go in and find this information easily.
Here's the thing. You can order anything outside of eBay off of anyone, pay with PayPal and when they send it, you recieve it. What's inside the box? A DOG TURD!!! You call Paypal up and say, "I ordered and bought a solid gold dog statue worth $5000 and the seller sent me a real dog turd!!! I want my money back!!! He didn't send me what I thought I bought"
You file the claim and check the reason code boxes that apply, one of which is this: NOT AS DESCRIBED. Guess what, you just screwed yourself!!
This will be the final answer:
___________
Dear Timothy McCreary,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
As stated in our User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the
shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes
or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this
transaction or issue a refund.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Kathleen
PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company
_______________________
FROM NOW ON, I WILL USE A CREDIT CARD FOR ALL PAYPAL TRANSACTIONS OUTSIDE OF EBAY!!!! THIS WAY, I CAN DISPUTE IT THROUGH THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY INSTEAD!!!!
Luckily, the seller used the Post Office and he claimed he was selling me one product and substitued another. This is fraud that is called bait-and-switch and since he used the US Post Office, it now falls under thing called MAIL FRAUD. Not only that, he did me a favor by getting a tracking number. Now it has documented and traceable ownership.
I'm going to give him until Friday to refund the money, then it is off to the post office with the paperwork!!!
In closing, Paypal has changed drastically since I began using it. Anyone who thinks they have protection better read carefully. Luckily my financial loss was relatively low. Imagine if I bought an engine or transmission? It makes you think.
Sincerely
Tim McCreary
10-10-07, 03:05 AM
#2
Sorry to hear you did not understand your policy completely, and thank you for posting this cause it does make others aware of it, I have seen a couple of similar situations in the last couple months on here. I hope he does the right thing and refunds you your money or delivers the correct product.
10-10-07, 03:07 AM
#3
Paypal IS a joke it's not secure and it's only a matter of time before a another paypal like company moves in. I just recently had someone from india hack into my account and instant transfer 1100$$ out of my checking account. WTF your info is suppose to be so secure, nah thats all bs just like thier dispute process.Good luck trust me your not the only one who's been screwed by paypal.
10-10-07, 11:31 AM
#4
Just out of curiosity, was the difference between the items substantial or superficial? In other words, did they just send you somthing that was the wrong color or did they send you something completely different, like an ordinary baseball instead of one signed by Babe Ruth? Different people have different expectations. Some people are reasonable (in the eyes of the many) and some are utterly unreasonable (except in their own minds). Just trying to place you on the spectrum.
10-10-07, 03:07 PM
#5
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Just out of curiosity, was the difference between the items substantial or superficial? In other words, did they just send you somthing that was the wrong color or did they send you something completely different, like an ordinary baseball instead of one signed by Babe Ruth? Different people have different expectations. Some people are reasonable (in the eyes of the many) and some are utterly unreasonable (except in their own minds). Just trying to place you on the spectrum.
10-10-07, 06:37 PM
#6
Why are you answering for Tim McCreary? Is that what actually happened to him or some theoretical argument about what is or is not a substantial difference in your mind? If it's the latter, I don't need your help. If it's the former, I'm not saying I disagree; just curious about the item(s) in question. If this was a case of getting the wrong thing but subsantially similar in function and value, I am less sympathetic than if you paid $5,000 for a 20B 3-rotor engine and received a used condom instead.
10-10-07, 07:11 PM
#7
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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Plain and simple this was a messed up transaction because of the board being down etc.
I was pm'ed and emailed about a silicone kit for a 3rd gen.
I emailed him and asked him what silicone hoses he was looking to replace
He replied that he needed vac hose
between the emails and pm this is what was stated
the emails stated I sold a dei silicoine hose kit @ x amount of dollars
the pm sent to him stated I sold dei universal hose kits at the same x amount of dollars.
he read the email and paid the money
AFTER which he then read his pm box and saw that I said I sold a DEI universal kit for the same x amoutn he paid me
(email and pm were 1 word different "universal")
NOW instead of him emailing or pm'ing me back ater reading his pm box message he let the order ride I emailed him and told him when I went to place the order the DEI kit was unavailable so it was substituted for a different brand (same quality 100% silicone hose in the same color he asked for) I told him there was a price difference (which I would cover) and he thanked me for taking care of it and getting the item sent.
He received the product and SUPOSIDLY the kit is not long enough for a 3rd gen (I was unaware that 1g and 2g hose kits would not work on a 3rd gen it is a universal kit but suposidly the 3rd gen uses substantially more hose)
This was in a email he sent me
"your for sale post did NOT state a universal kit. Your Private Message to me DID state it, but your Email to me at the same time stating the kit was a DEI did NOT state it. I read the email first and sent the money immediately afterward hoping to get the kit in time for the weekend. After this happened, I read the Private Message the next day, I assumed you were selling universal kits in addition to the specific kit we were already in negotiations to purchase. My assumption here does not negate the fact that our transaction was still based initially on a specific kit. You continued to pursue my business even with all the documentation in plain site stating the specific kit."
Instead of emailing or pm'ing me to make sure he was getting a direct fit kit for his car (which I never knew a direct fit silicone hose kit existed for any car specifically)
This is the email I got after I told him abotu the brand switch
"Dave,
I appreciate your deal that you are giving me. I saw the RX7 website is down and just wanted to know if you have a tracking number yet and did you receive and ship out the hoses. This way, I can figure on expecting the hose for this weekend or next.
Thanks,
Tim"
Right there he knew of the brand switch and NEVER claimed to be upset by it.. he was upset when he got the kit and realized he could get it for cheaper closer to him (how would I know that, around here they are not sold on the shelf)
I have agreed that I was un aware that there is a silicone hose kit SPECIFICALLY for a 3rd gen. because as far as I know there is not one for a 1g or a 2g rx7..
The motor are not that much different and I figured the kit I sent him which will leave u with alot more hose when working ona 1gen or 2gen would cover the 3rd gen as well as he never stated it was a specific kit with specific extra lenghts (which again he knew of before he placed the order)
That is what happen this is the problem and because I am tired of the b.s I am refunding him the amount he paid. however this is the first and ONLY time anyoen has been dis-satisfied when they have bought anything form me between me AND the buyer this was a sloppy deal on BOTH of our parts...
I wont take all the blame.. He should take some as well.
I was pm'ed and emailed about a silicone kit for a 3rd gen.
I emailed him and asked him what silicone hoses he was looking to replace
He replied that he needed vac hose
between the emails and pm this is what was stated
the emails stated I sold a dei silicoine hose kit @ x amount of dollars
the pm sent to him stated I sold dei universal hose kits at the same x amount of dollars.
he read the email and paid the money
AFTER which he then read his pm box and saw that I said I sold a DEI universal kit for the same x amoutn he paid me
(email and pm were 1 word different "universal")
NOW instead of him emailing or pm'ing me back ater reading his pm box message he let the order ride I emailed him and told him when I went to place the order the DEI kit was unavailable so it was substituted for a different brand (same quality 100% silicone hose in the same color he asked for) I told him there was a price difference (which I would cover) and he thanked me for taking care of it and getting the item sent.
He received the product and SUPOSIDLY the kit is not long enough for a 3rd gen (I was unaware that 1g and 2g hose kits would not work on a 3rd gen it is a universal kit but suposidly the 3rd gen uses substantially more hose)
This was in a email he sent me
"your for sale post did NOT state a universal kit. Your Private Message to me DID state it, but your Email to me at the same time stating the kit was a DEI did NOT state it. I read the email first and sent the money immediately afterward hoping to get the kit in time for the weekend. After this happened, I read the Private Message the next day, I assumed you were selling universal kits in addition to the specific kit we were already in negotiations to purchase. My assumption here does not negate the fact that our transaction was still based initially on a specific kit. You continued to pursue my business even with all the documentation in plain site stating the specific kit."
Instead of emailing or pm'ing me to make sure he was getting a direct fit kit for his car (which I never knew a direct fit silicone hose kit existed for any car specifically)
This is the email I got after I told him abotu the brand switch
"Dave,
I appreciate your deal that you are giving me. I saw the RX7 website is down and just wanted to know if you have a tracking number yet and did you receive and ship out the hoses. This way, I can figure on expecting the hose for this weekend or next.
Thanks,
Tim"
Right there he knew of the brand switch and NEVER claimed to be upset by it.. he was upset when he got the kit and realized he could get it for cheaper closer to him (how would I know that, around here they are not sold on the shelf)
I have agreed that I was un aware that there is a silicone hose kit SPECIFICALLY for a 3rd gen. because as far as I know there is not one for a 1g or a 2g rx7..
The motor are not that much different and I figured the kit I sent him which will leave u with alot more hose when working ona 1gen or 2gen would cover the 3rd gen as well as he never stated it was a specific kit with specific extra lenghts (which again he knew of before he placed the order)
That is what happen this is the problem and because I am tired of the b.s I am refunding him the amount he paid. however this is the first and ONLY time anyoen has been dis-satisfied when they have bought anything form me between me AND the buyer this was a sloppy deal on BOTH of our parts...
I wont take all the blame.. He should take some as well.
Last edited by SpooledupRacing; 10-10-07 at 07:20 PM.
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10-10-07, 09:23 PM
#10
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Why are you answering for Tim McCreary? Is that what actually happened to him or some theoretical argument about what is or is not a substantial difference in your mind? If it's the latter, I don't need your help. If it's the former, I'm not saying I disagree; just curious about the item(s) in question. If this was a case of getting the wrong thing but subsantially similar in function and value, I am less sympathetic than if you paid $5,000 for a 20B 3-rotor engine and received a used condom instead.
You should be thanking me and a few others who were very vocal in having spooledupracing's selling priveledges revoked which were in direct competition with businesses like Pineapple Racing. He did not pay vendor fees EVER and was undermining those that do. He is no longer allowed to sell items in the capacity that he once did.
BTW - I can send you that condom but you might not like whats inside it
10-10-07, 11:13 PM
#11
sounds like a nice misunderstanding. ive had to do a few disputes but all have ended well for me so far.
the hacking thing wtf happened with that? 1100 vs some stupid hose kit who even cares. i want to know what they did about that one.
that makes me super paranoid.
the hacking thing wtf happened with that? 1100 vs some stupid hose kit who even cares. i want to know what they did about that one.
that makes me super paranoid.
10-11-07, 12:30 AM
#12
not trying to thread jack but, long story short: My paypal account was hacked into, money was transfered out, said money was then returned to me through actions I had to take and handle through paypal and my bank over the course of several days.I had to close out my bank checking account and open a new one change all my passwords, debit cards etc...moral of the story DO NOT keep any more than a credit card on your paypal account and never trust paypals so called secure pages.
10-11-07, 01:12 PM
#13
Regardless, it's good that this individual brought the matter to the attention of other Paypal users in case they did not understand the user agreement. Now they know and have no excuse to be mad at Paypal if the same thing happens to them. I would still expect them to be mad at the seller, of course...
10-11-07, 06:06 PM
#14
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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A full refund has been sent back to the buyer INCLUDING an extra 10.00 for shipping the kit back to me.
This ordeal is over (once he accepts my payment and sends back the kit to me)
This ordeal is over (once he accepts my payment and sends back the kit to me)
10-12-07, 03:22 AM
#16
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There is the perception of the truth, then there is the truth. Perceptions are what people personally believe is true, but have been skewed and influenced by their own or other’s personal opinions stated as fact. Life is about choices, we all choose our paths. This is the path that I chose:
SpooledupRacing (Dave Hensler) is a crook…..This was MY PERCEPTION of the truth when I received my order and I was wrong. For this, I am truly sorry. If Dave were truly a crook, he would have fought tooth and nail to keep my money to the end, but he didn’t. He refunded it. Do I blame Dave for battling me over this issue? No, because Dave’s perception of the truth was his own, he owned it, not me. His perception, like mine, was based on what he saw and thought. My perceptions were based on the data that that I saw up to the point where I opened the box, filed the claim and email requesting the refund, and got no communications in return. When Dave then posted “Questions about members in general”, he posted several of his perceptions about me that he documented as being true. When he posted above on this thread, he added some more of his perceptions, again not the truth. Since there was many things mentioned about this transaction that I know are not the truth, it has somewhat tarnished my integrity. The one thing that I hold more valuable than my job, my house, my money, and my RX7 is my integrity. When someone brings doubts about my integrity, I have no recourse but to defend it.
For this reason, and this reason ONLY, I am posting the email communications (copied directly as it was received and sent except the pictures) and my thoughts so that you can make your own opinion on why I came to the wrong conclusion that Dave was a crook. What I ask of you is to put yourself in my shoes. How would you perceive this person if you were dealing with him???? You can make your own conclusion as to whether I was right or wrong. I made my decision that day. If I had to do it all over again with the same data, I believe the outcome would have been the same.
But don’t stop there. Once you are done reading the emails, you now need to understand Dave’s side of the story. I will not speak for his perceptions and assumptions that he made about me because I don’t know all of them, and the one’s that I do know may just be my perception of them, not truly his. One thing that I will say and he has posted is that he feels that I knew the kit was a universal kit. Take that into consideration when thinking of his side of the story and I am sure you will come to the same assumptions and conclusions that he did about me.
Now my information:
It was Monday, and I knew I needed new silicone vacuum hoses for my 1993 RX7. If you search my posts, you will find my 10-5-5 boost problem. The follow-up stopped because I needed the hoses and I needed the time to do the repairs. The time finally arrived (kids in school, I am on 2nd shift this week, and I have time to myself). I do a search for Hose Techniques and find their website. I look at the kit on there and am happy with the price. I then look at the location and it is California. Crap!!!! If I order it today, it will process tomorrow and take 5 days to ship. I won’t receive it until Monday or Tuesday of next week. I want something a bit sooner or closer for around the same price. I go onto the website and click on SEARCH and enter Silicone Vacuum Hose.
What do you know!!! The top post says End of September parts sale. I click on it. At the top it says:
________
Please include your cars year and if the car is turbo or not along with your payment.
______
Comments:
SpooledupRacing - He has 2700+ posts, good! I scroll down to where the search text is in bold Red. There it is:
__________________Cut and pasted directly from original post_____________
Heat Wraps
DEI black fiberglass wrap 2" wide 50' long roll 75.00 shipped
DEI natural fiberglass 2" wide by 50' long roll (locking tie) 55.00 shipped
Thermotec (snap strap) fiberglass natural color 2" wide 50' long roll 55.00 shipped
Silicone Vacuum hose kit
RED, Blue or Black 90.00 shipped
*****(Picture of black kit here removed as I cannot cut and paste to post it on the forum)*****
Engine Gaskets
S4 n/a intake gasket set (lower to block, mid to lower and mid to upper) all 3 gaskets for 40.00 shipped USA or 55.00 shipped to CAN, AK or HI
__________________________________________________ ___________________
I scroll down to the bottom and find:
I accept money order, personal checks and Paypal (perfered)
Paypal addy is: SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
__________________
Dave
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
Spooled Up Racing ®
____
Comments:
I see he is in Michigan, that should only take 2-3 days to ship. I know I need to contact him ASAP and have them shipped ASAP to get them here by Friday. I send an email and a Private message, just in case he emails me when I am at work:
_____
Email:
Dave,
I was wondering if you have a blue silicone kit for the 93 rx7 in stock and how quickly it will ship after paypal payment.
Please let me know asap.
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
Tim.McCreary@agy.com
814-224-2103
______________
Private Message:
Silicone Hose kits
________________________________________
Hi,
I was wondering if you have a blue silicone hose kit for the 93 rx7 in stock. How soon will it ship out once paid for. Do you have a toll free order number or a phone number to call to order, or do you have a website to order from?
Let me know asap
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
814-224-2103
__________
Comments:
I get my reply via email
______
Email:
silicone vacuum hose or silicone what?
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
_______________________
Comments:
Oops!! I forgot the word Vacuum!
___________
Email Reply:
Blue silicone vacuum hose kit, Sorry, I forgot there is other hoses.
Tim
_____
Comments:
Dave emails back:
_________
90.00 shipped DEI set
paypal is: SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
I get the kit at my place in 48 hours tops then I ship it FOR FREE 2-3 day priority
THX again
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
_____
Comments:
I do my research for DEI as I remember hearing this name, but don’t remember where. Google search, Oh yes!!! Design Engineering Inc. They make the high temperature thermal wrap. I didn’t know they made vacuum kits for the 1993 RX7. WOW!! Great product at a great price! I can get it before Friday!!!
I send the Paypal Payment:
________
Name:
David Hensler
Email:
HensFamily@comcast.net
Payment Sent to:
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
Total Amount: -$90.00 USD
Date: Oct. 2, 2007
Time: 01:47:12 PDT
Status: Completed
Subject: DEI Blue Silicone Vacuum Hose Kit 1993 RX7
Note: Dave,
Please ship out a Blue DEI Silicone Vacuum Hose kit for the 1993 Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo. Please ship to my paypal confirmed address:
Tim McCreary
*** *** **** ****
Roaring Spring, PA 16673
You can email the tracking number to me at: mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
Thanks,
Tim
Shipping Address:
Tim McCreary
*** *** **** ****
Roaring Spring, PA 16673
United States
Confirmed
_____
Comments:
It’s done, I finally will get my vacuum hoses.
The next day, I wake up and get another email:
________
I received your payment this morning and when placing your order I was told the DEI kit was out of stock so you are receiving another brand of 100% silicone vac hose and this kit is actually larger (in the amount you will receive) the kit cost was 10.00 more but I will eat that cost
Just wanted to let u know of the brand change and I should have this in my hands tomorrow depending on the time of delivery the package will either go out tomorrow or Wednesday either way when it ships the package will ship 2-3 day priority for FREE
THX again
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
______
Comments:
Hmmm. I wonder if this is a better kit or not? He says it’s a bigger kit and costs more, maybe it comes with the hose cutter and wire ties. Maybe it’s a Hose Techniques kit! They have 40 feet instead of the minimum 35 feet for the small size. Well, I will see when it arrives. Either way, as long as I have enough to do the car, I should have a little left over to attempt the solid pipe tubing that I wanted to try. (bending brake tubing and just using about 1” of hose to connect it to each nipple).
Eventually, I go back on the RX7Club Website and a PM appears. I open it up.
It was from Dave:
_________
Re: silicone hose kits
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCreary
Hi again,
Also need to know what brand the kit is.
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
What hoses are u looking for a vacuum hose kit, intercooler hose kit or radiator hose kit?
I sell universal vac hose kits
****(Picture of the same kit here, I cannot insert)*****
(also in blue)
brand is DEI cost is 90.00 shipped
paypal is SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
__________________
Dave
86' 13B 5spd, N/T
89' VERT auto, N/T
If you need any tech help or parts email me.
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
___________
Comments:
I already know this, the kit is on it’s way. I open it again later.
Wait…I sell universal vac hose kits……Does he mean he sells universal vacuum kits in addition to the specific kits also if I need more or does he mean the only thing he sells is universal vacuum kits? Well, it doesn’t matter as long as it fits the application for a 1993 Rx7, I’ll use it.
Well it’s now Friday. I wonder if it will arrive today. I won’t know until I get back home from work tonight about midnight. The forum has been down and no emails with the tracking number. I will email him back and ask:
_________
Dave,
I appreciate your deal that you are giving me. I saw the RX7 website is down and just wanted to know if you have a tracking number yet and did you receive and ship out the hoses. This way, I can figure on expecting the hose for this weekend or next.
Thanks,
Tim
____
Comments
Dave's reply:
________
I meant to get ahold of you yesterday but I was unsure if I should use yoru paypal addy..
anywho yes th kit shipped yesterday via USPS 2-3 day priority and the delivery confirmation numbr is:
03041560000713583200
thx again let me know if I can help u with anything else
Dave
____
Comments:
Friday night, no kit.
Saturday night, it arrived. I get home and open it up. I look and see it is pretty small. Good brand. I see it is the really thick wall stuff. Is this enough hose to do the whole engine? I turn the box over and see:
10 feet of 3mm, 5 feet of 6mm, and 2 feet of 10mm.
I can’t believe it, he screwed me!!!!! He knew I needed a kit for the 1993 Rx7. I told him in the first email!! I told him in the Paypal Payment!! He is on the forum, EVEREYBODY knows you need at least 35 feet of the small and 15 feet of the larger for the 93 RX7!!
Let me see what the going price for this kit is:
Google search: G Sport Pro 11031B
Advance Auto - $39.99 – 5 miles down the road!!!!!
HOLY CRAP!!! Now I know he did this on purpose! I want my money back. He wasted my time and I am not wasting more time and money waiting for the right kit to arrive. I’ll order the Hose Techniques kit today to make sure it gets here by this coming weekend.
I wonder if DEI even makes a kit? I go to their website and email them:
I then emailed Dave my demand for a refund and disputed the Paypal Payment:
__________
Dave,
I just got home from work and I received the hose kit today. Apparently there must be some communication failure with what I thought I ordered and what I received.
I thought I ordered a Silicone vacuum hose kit for a 93 Mazda RX7 as seen at the beginning of this email at the bottom of the page. This kit, based on Robb Robbinette's website, should have at a minimum 35 feet of 3.5mm and 10 feet of 6.0mm of hose. http://www.robrobinette.com/hoses.htm
The Hose Techniques kit most commonly used for the 1993 Rx7 comes with: 40 feet of 3.5mm (all small solenoids), 15 feet of 4.0mm (Windshield washers and boost controllers), 16 feet of 6.0mm (larger air lines on engine), 4 feet of 8.0mm (larger air lines on engine), and HoseCutter, HoseSlitter, 120 Ties. This is priced at $108.25 + shipping. http://www.hosetechniques.com/produc...oducts_id=2536
I made an assumption that your kit was a bit cheaper because it was not a name brand like Hose Techniques or you just bought hose in bulk and cut it yourself. My goal was to get a kit by Friday so I could work on it over the weekend. After you said it was from DEi, I did some research and figured it was something they made for very high temperature applications. My thoughts were that your kit would arrive much faster than Hose Techniques since you were much closer. If it arrived by Friday, I could get it done this weekend. When I called Hose Techniques, they said 5 days ground shipping once the order is shipped, assuming it is in stock. I decided to go with your kit.
I also figured your kit might not come with the hose cutter and wire ties, but I could get them locally. I was shocked to find what you actually sent me; a Mr Gasket G Sport Pro kit 11031B which contains 10 feet of 3mm, 5 feet of 6mm and 2 feet of 10mm. I would need at least 3 or 4 of these kits to complete the job. You charged me $90 for this kit. I could have purchased this same kit for $39.99 at Advance Auto right down the street (along with a $5 discount for ordering it on the web page). http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...tNumber=11031B Now that I look at your post again, you have pictured this identical kit in black there.
My goal was to change out the hoses during my days off of work this weekend and was hoping it would have arrived Friday or today, but that plan fell through. I have now ordered the correct kit from Hose Techniques.
I am requesting an immediate refund of my $90. I will also need your full name and address to return this package to you. I will pay for the return shipping, but you will have to eat the loss of the $5.95 that you spent on the shipping to me. I think that is only fair. As far as not refunding my money until I ship the package out, I will argue that I paid without seeing or receiving the package from you. I trusted you to send it, I expect the same from you. I have disputed the paypal payment to insure this refund occurs quickly.
Sincerely,
Tim McCreary
_____
Comments:
No answer, no email, no Private message. The next morning the paypal claim is denied. I call Paypal, sorry Tim, you are screwed!!!!
I call DEI and they say they don’t make or sell any silicone vacuum hoses.
I get an email back from DEI:
__________
Hello Timothy, we currently do not offer anything in the silicone vacuum hose line. Please let us know if we can help with anything else.
Thank you,
Mike
________________________________________
From: Design Engineering Inc. [mailto:website@designengineering.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:27 AM
To: sales
Subject: Contact form at designengineering.com
_______
Comments:
This is FRAUD!!
This ends my perception of this story. Now you decide.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Now I could go on and post what happened next and show some nasty stuff I was preparing to say and do, but that’s not the point of my post here today.
Now think of Dave's side. I am sure it play's out the same as mine if he were to add comments of his assumptions and thoughts.
My post here today is to give EVERYONE some insight into the other side of the story.
I had a difficult time deciding to accept the payment and the reason is because PayPal now gains more money because he sent me the $100 instead instead of refunding my $90 payment. They get fresh new fees. If he refunded, Paypal would get nothing. After what we went through and what Paypal failed to do, I don’t think they deserve it.
The other reason is because if I refused it for the above and asked him to just send the $90 refund, my legal case against him would fail.
Am I happy with the outcome?? NO. Why?? Because I know that Dave and his family will suffer a financial loss of income because of this and because I have lost time, energy, and sleep over this whole ordeal. For me it wasn’t about the money, it was about getting screwed and defending that which I hold dear.
I don’t want anyone bashing Dave for what he did. He only did what he thought was right also. I’m sure Dave will bash himself for the results of this deal knowing that if he were a bit more customer focused, he could have saved all of this hassle. In the end, I think he will become a much better businessman because of this. Customers are not your enemy; they are your source of income and information for improving your business. If you listen carefully enough, you will find your business will grow leaps and bounds.
As for me, I will be haunted by the fact that I was the direct cause of Dave’s income loss. Nothing hurts me more than to know I was part of the reason somebody loses their job or income. All because I am obsessed with a stupid little car.
Administrators, I would respectfully request that you lock this thread and don’t delete it. if anyone has any comments, they should direct them via PM to the specific individuals or administrators.
As of now for me, this issue is dead.
SpooledupRacing (Dave Hensler) is a crook…..This was MY PERCEPTION of the truth when I received my order and I was wrong. For this, I am truly sorry. If Dave were truly a crook, he would have fought tooth and nail to keep my money to the end, but he didn’t. He refunded it. Do I blame Dave for battling me over this issue? No, because Dave’s perception of the truth was his own, he owned it, not me. His perception, like mine, was based on what he saw and thought. My perceptions were based on the data that that I saw up to the point where I opened the box, filed the claim and email requesting the refund, and got no communications in return. When Dave then posted “Questions about members in general”, he posted several of his perceptions about me that he documented as being true. When he posted above on this thread, he added some more of his perceptions, again not the truth. Since there was many things mentioned about this transaction that I know are not the truth, it has somewhat tarnished my integrity. The one thing that I hold more valuable than my job, my house, my money, and my RX7 is my integrity. When someone brings doubts about my integrity, I have no recourse but to defend it.
For this reason, and this reason ONLY, I am posting the email communications (copied directly as it was received and sent except the pictures) and my thoughts so that you can make your own opinion on why I came to the wrong conclusion that Dave was a crook. What I ask of you is to put yourself in my shoes. How would you perceive this person if you were dealing with him???? You can make your own conclusion as to whether I was right or wrong. I made my decision that day. If I had to do it all over again with the same data, I believe the outcome would have been the same.
But don’t stop there. Once you are done reading the emails, you now need to understand Dave’s side of the story. I will not speak for his perceptions and assumptions that he made about me because I don’t know all of them, and the one’s that I do know may just be my perception of them, not truly his. One thing that I will say and he has posted is that he feels that I knew the kit was a universal kit. Take that into consideration when thinking of his side of the story and I am sure you will come to the same assumptions and conclusions that he did about me.
Now my information:
It was Monday, and I knew I needed new silicone vacuum hoses for my 1993 RX7. If you search my posts, you will find my 10-5-5 boost problem. The follow-up stopped because I needed the hoses and I needed the time to do the repairs. The time finally arrived (kids in school, I am on 2nd shift this week, and I have time to myself). I do a search for Hose Techniques and find their website. I look at the kit on there and am happy with the price. I then look at the location and it is California. Crap!!!! If I order it today, it will process tomorrow and take 5 days to ship. I won’t receive it until Monday or Tuesday of next week. I want something a bit sooner or closer for around the same price. I go onto the website and click on SEARCH and enter Silicone Vacuum Hose.
What do you know!!! The top post says End of September parts sale. I click on it. At the top it says:
________
Please include your cars year and if the car is turbo or not along with your payment.
______
Comments:
SpooledupRacing - He has 2700+ posts, good! I scroll down to where the search text is in bold Red. There it is:
__________________Cut and pasted directly from original post_____________
Heat Wraps
DEI black fiberglass wrap 2" wide 50' long roll 75.00 shipped
DEI natural fiberglass 2" wide by 50' long roll (locking tie) 55.00 shipped
Thermotec (snap strap) fiberglass natural color 2" wide 50' long roll 55.00 shipped
Silicone Vacuum hose kit
RED, Blue or Black 90.00 shipped
*****(Picture of black kit here removed as I cannot cut and paste to post it on the forum)*****
Engine Gaskets
S4 n/a intake gasket set (lower to block, mid to lower and mid to upper) all 3 gaskets for 40.00 shipped USA or 55.00 shipped to CAN, AK or HI
__________________________________________________ ___________________
I scroll down to the bottom and find:
I accept money order, personal checks and Paypal (perfered)
Paypal addy is: SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
__________________
Dave
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
Spooled Up Racing ®
____
Comments:
I see he is in Michigan, that should only take 2-3 days to ship. I know I need to contact him ASAP and have them shipped ASAP to get them here by Friday. I send an email and a Private message, just in case he emails me when I am at work:
_____
Email:
Dave,
I was wondering if you have a blue silicone kit for the 93 rx7 in stock and how quickly it will ship after paypal payment.
Please let me know asap.
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
Tim.McCreary@agy.com
814-224-2103
______________
Private Message:
Silicone Hose kits
________________________________________
Hi,
I was wondering if you have a blue silicone hose kit for the 93 rx7 in stock. How soon will it ship out once paid for. Do you have a toll free order number or a phone number to call to order, or do you have a website to order from?
Let me know asap
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
814-224-2103
__________
Comments:
I get my reply via email
______
Email:
silicone vacuum hose or silicone what?
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
_______________________
Comments:
Oops!! I forgot the word Vacuum!
___________
Email Reply:
Blue silicone vacuum hose kit, Sorry, I forgot there is other hoses.
Tim
_____
Comments:
Dave emails back:
_________
90.00 shipped DEI set
paypal is: SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
I get the kit at my place in 48 hours tops then I ship it FOR FREE 2-3 day priority
THX again
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
_____
Comments:
I do my research for DEI as I remember hearing this name, but don’t remember where. Google search, Oh yes!!! Design Engineering Inc. They make the high temperature thermal wrap. I didn’t know they made vacuum kits for the 1993 RX7. WOW!! Great product at a great price! I can get it before Friday!!!
I send the Paypal Payment:
________
Name:
David Hensler
Email:
HensFamily@comcast.net
Payment Sent to:
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
Total Amount: -$90.00 USD
Date: Oct. 2, 2007
Time: 01:47:12 PDT
Status: Completed
Subject: DEI Blue Silicone Vacuum Hose Kit 1993 RX7
Note: Dave,
Please ship out a Blue DEI Silicone Vacuum Hose kit for the 1993 Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo. Please ship to my paypal confirmed address:
Tim McCreary
*** *** **** ****
Roaring Spring, PA 16673
You can email the tracking number to me at: mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
Thanks,
Tim
Shipping Address:
Tim McCreary
*** *** **** ****
Roaring Spring, PA 16673
United States
Confirmed
_____
Comments:
It’s done, I finally will get my vacuum hoses.
The next day, I wake up and get another email:
________
I received your payment this morning and when placing your order I was told the DEI kit was out of stock so you are receiving another brand of 100% silicone vac hose and this kit is actually larger (in the amount you will receive) the kit cost was 10.00 more but I will eat that cost
Just wanted to let u know of the brand change and I should have this in my hands tomorrow depending on the time of delivery the package will either go out tomorrow or Wednesday either way when it ships the package will ship 2-3 day priority for FREE
THX again
Dave
Spooled Up Racing ®
86' 13B coupe, 5spd, N/T
89' 13B vert, auto, N/T
Rotary Power FTW!
______
Comments:
Hmmm. I wonder if this is a better kit or not? He says it’s a bigger kit and costs more, maybe it comes with the hose cutter and wire ties. Maybe it’s a Hose Techniques kit! They have 40 feet instead of the minimum 35 feet for the small size. Well, I will see when it arrives. Either way, as long as I have enough to do the car, I should have a little left over to attempt the solid pipe tubing that I wanted to try. (bending brake tubing and just using about 1” of hose to connect it to each nipple).
Eventually, I go back on the RX7Club Website and a PM appears. I open it up.
It was from Dave:
_________
Re: silicone hose kits
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim McCreary
Hi again,
Also need to know what brand the kit is.
Thanks,
Tim McCreary
mccreary1@atlanticbb.net
What hoses are u looking for a vacuum hose kit, intercooler hose kit or radiator hose kit?
I sell universal vac hose kits
****(Picture of the same kit here, I cannot insert)*****
(also in blue)
brand is DEI cost is 90.00 shipped
paypal is SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
__________________
Dave
86' 13B 5spd, N/T
89' VERT auto, N/T
If you need any tech help or parts email me.
SpooledupRacing@comcast.net
___________
Comments:
I already know this, the kit is on it’s way. I open it again later.
Wait…I sell universal vac hose kits……Does he mean he sells universal vacuum kits in addition to the specific kits also if I need more or does he mean the only thing he sells is universal vacuum kits? Well, it doesn’t matter as long as it fits the application for a 1993 Rx7, I’ll use it.
Well it’s now Friday. I wonder if it will arrive today. I won’t know until I get back home from work tonight about midnight. The forum has been down and no emails with the tracking number. I will email him back and ask:
_________
Dave,
I appreciate your deal that you are giving me. I saw the RX7 website is down and just wanted to know if you have a tracking number yet and did you receive and ship out the hoses. This way, I can figure on expecting the hose for this weekend or next.
Thanks,
Tim
____
Comments
Dave's reply:
________
I meant to get ahold of you yesterday but I was unsure if I should use yoru paypal addy..
anywho yes th kit shipped yesterday via USPS 2-3 day priority and the delivery confirmation numbr is:
03041560000713583200
thx again let me know if I can help u with anything else
Dave
____
Comments:
Friday night, no kit.
Saturday night, it arrived. I get home and open it up. I look and see it is pretty small. Good brand. I see it is the really thick wall stuff. Is this enough hose to do the whole engine? I turn the box over and see:
10 feet of 3mm, 5 feet of 6mm, and 2 feet of 10mm.
I can’t believe it, he screwed me!!!!! He knew I needed a kit for the 1993 Rx7. I told him in the first email!! I told him in the Paypal Payment!! He is on the forum, EVEREYBODY knows you need at least 35 feet of the small and 15 feet of the larger for the 93 RX7!!
Let me see what the going price for this kit is:
Google search: G Sport Pro 11031B
Advance Auto - $39.99 – 5 miles down the road!!!!!
HOLY CRAP!!! Now I know he did this on purpose! I want my money back. He wasted my time and I am not wasting more time and money waiting for the right kit to arrive. I’ll order the Hose Techniques kit today to make sure it gets here by this coming weekend.
I wonder if DEI even makes a kit? I go to their website and email them:
I then emailed Dave my demand for a refund and disputed the Paypal Payment:
__________
Dave,
I just got home from work and I received the hose kit today. Apparently there must be some communication failure with what I thought I ordered and what I received.
I thought I ordered a Silicone vacuum hose kit for a 93 Mazda RX7 as seen at the beginning of this email at the bottom of the page. This kit, based on Robb Robbinette's website, should have at a minimum 35 feet of 3.5mm and 10 feet of 6.0mm of hose. http://www.robrobinette.com/hoses.htm
The Hose Techniques kit most commonly used for the 1993 Rx7 comes with: 40 feet of 3.5mm (all small solenoids), 15 feet of 4.0mm (Windshield washers and boost controllers), 16 feet of 6.0mm (larger air lines on engine), 4 feet of 8.0mm (larger air lines on engine), and HoseCutter, HoseSlitter, 120 Ties. This is priced at $108.25 + shipping. http://www.hosetechniques.com/produc...oducts_id=2536
I made an assumption that your kit was a bit cheaper because it was not a name brand like Hose Techniques or you just bought hose in bulk and cut it yourself. My goal was to get a kit by Friday so I could work on it over the weekend. After you said it was from DEi, I did some research and figured it was something they made for very high temperature applications. My thoughts were that your kit would arrive much faster than Hose Techniques since you were much closer. If it arrived by Friday, I could get it done this weekend. When I called Hose Techniques, they said 5 days ground shipping once the order is shipped, assuming it is in stock. I decided to go with your kit.
I also figured your kit might not come with the hose cutter and wire ties, but I could get them locally. I was shocked to find what you actually sent me; a Mr Gasket G Sport Pro kit 11031B which contains 10 feet of 3mm, 5 feet of 6mm and 2 feet of 10mm. I would need at least 3 or 4 of these kits to complete the job. You charged me $90 for this kit. I could have purchased this same kit for $39.99 at Advance Auto right down the street (along with a $5 discount for ordering it on the web page). http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...tNumber=11031B Now that I look at your post again, you have pictured this identical kit in black there.
My goal was to change out the hoses during my days off of work this weekend and was hoping it would have arrived Friday or today, but that plan fell through. I have now ordered the correct kit from Hose Techniques.
I am requesting an immediate refund of my $90. I will also need your full name and address to return this package to you. I will pay for the return shipping, but you will have to eat the loss of the $5.95 that you spent on the shipping to me. I think that is only fair. As far as not refunding my money until I ship the package out, I will argue that I paid without seeing or receiving the package from you. I trusted you to send it, I expect the same from you. I have disputed the paypal payment to insure this refund occurs quickly.
Sincerely,
Tim McCreary
_____
Comments:
No answer, no email, no Private message. The next morning the paypal claim is denied. I call Paypal, sorry Tim, you are screwed!!!!
I call DEI and they say they don’t make or sell any silicone vacuum hoses.
I get an email back from DEI:
__________
Hello Timothy, we currently do not offer anything in the silicone vacuum hose line. Please let us know if we can help with anything else.
Thank you,
Mike
________________________________________
From: Design Engineering Inc. [mailto:website@designengineering.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 1:27 AM
To: sales
Subject: Contact form at designengineering.com
_______
Comments:
This is FRAUD!!
This ends my perception of this story. Now you decide.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Now I could go on and post what happened next and show some nasty stuff I was preparing to say and do, but that’s not the point of my post here today.
Now think of Dave's side. I am sure it play's out the same as mine if he were to add comments of his assumptions and thoughts.
My post here today is to give EVERYONE some insight into the other side of the story.
I had a difficult time deciding to accept the payment and the reason is because PayPal now gains more money because he sent me the $100 instead instead of refunding my $90 payment. They get fresh new fees. If he refunded, Paypal would get nothing. After what we went through and what Paypal failed to do, I don’t think they deserve it.
The other reason is because if I refused it for the above and asked him to just send the $90 refund, my legal case against him would fail.
Am I happy with the outcome?? NO. Why?? Because I know that Dave and his family will suffer a financial loss of income because of this and because I have lost time, energy, and sleep over this whole ordeal. For me it wasn’t about the money, it was about getting screwed and defending that which I hold dear.
I don’t want anyone bashing Dave for what he did. He only did what he thought was right also. I’m sure Dave will bash himself for the results of this deal knowing that if he were a bit more customer focused, he could have saved all of this hassle. In the end, I think he will become a much better businessman because of this. Customers are not your enemy; they are your source of income and information for improving your business. If you listen carefully enough, you will find your business will grow leaps and bounds.
As for me, I will be haunted by the fact that I was the direct cause of Dave’s income loss. Nothing hurts me more than to know I was part of the reason somebody loses their job or income. All because I am obsessed with a stupid little car.
Administrators, I would respectfully request that you lock this thread and don’t delete it. if anyone has any comments, they should direct them via PM to the specific individuals or administrators.
As of now for me, this issue is dead.
Last edited by Tim McCreary; 10-12-07 at 03:34 AM. Reason: Clarifying and separating for Font change.
10-12-07, 05:33 AM
#17
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Comstock Park, MI 49321
Posts: 3,717
Likes: 0
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The reason why I did not use the "refund" option is because you sent me 90.00 they took their cut and I received just under 90.00 if I use the refund button they are going to do the same to you and you would receive less then 90.00
Either way paypal will take some money so I figured if I send u 100.00 you will atleast get your full 90.00 back and hopefully some extra in order to ship the hose back (even usps u could ship for 5.00 or less mostlikley)
Sorry again
Either way paypal will take some money so I figured if I send u 100.00 you will atleast get your full 90.00 back and hopefully some extra in order to ship the hose back (even usps u could ship for 5.00 or less mostlikley)
Sorry again
10-12-07, 11:22 AM
#18
The reason why I did not use the "refund" option is because you sent me 90.00 they took their cut and I received just under 90.00 if I use the refund button they are going to do the same to you and you would receive less then 90.00
Either way paypal will take some money so I figured if I send u 100.00 you will atleast get your full 90.00 back and hopefully some extra in order to ship the hose back (even usps u could ship for 5.00 or less mostlikley)
Sorry again
Either way paypal will take some money so I figured if I send u 100.00 you will atleast get your full 90.00 back and hopefully some extra in order to ship the hose back (even usps u could ship for 5.00 or less mostlikley)
Sorry again
Paypal refunds the Gross amount of the payment (the whole thing) by refunding the Net amount you received along with the Paypal Fees. For example, a recent buyer overpaid me for shipping so I issued a partial refund. The original transaction was for $68.40 Gross, minus the fee of $2.28 to Net $66.12. I refunded $3.45, of which $3.35 came from my account and $0.10 was refunded from the Fee paid. It's just as though he has paid the correct amount the first time. This is the same way it works with credit card payments on a merchant terminal, which is what they are modeled after.
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