hiboost

iTrader: (1)

I do not know where to start because this has been going on for like 3 and half years and it made me one angry and upset dude, but Ill try to be calm and honest. I was a happy new rx7 owner who decided to built car that was my all time favorite. After 3 and half years this car is still down picking up the dust... Started like a dream, I had this vision in my head of car I wanted and I decided to talk to most known shop in phoenix about it - Arizona Rotory Rockets. That was the worst decision I ever made. I wont mention the name o the person because that is against the rules of this forum, but this shop gave me all the numbers that will cost to complete the built (single turbo)and time how long would it take (it was not 3.5 years). it sounded great. Promissed some discounts etc...I also told them what was my budget (11K). Well, I knew these builts always cost more than predicted but not 2 times more compare to what I was told by AZRR (8-10K ) This thing was drying me to the last dollar. I can not remember all the details but from the moment I dropped the engine and tried to talk to AZRR I was disapointed that things were not done and there are more and more expences. I expected from guys who do this every day to give me close estimate but this was going over my head!. Nothing as I was told first day. I finally lost my cool waiting for stuff to be done (about a year) and I went and picked up the engine (whatever was done). Took it home, finished it, and wiring to Haltech was left. It seemed so complicated I asked for help anywhere I could, and finally I could not find anyone and decided to swallow my pride and ask AZRR again (pay them off course), guess what , same thing keep happening, promise they will show up, day by day, month by month... nothing ... Ok I decided to finish it myself. I'm glad today that I did beacuse I learned a lot about this car. It was aggravating. Well lets put money aside, I would not even complained, maybe I should have read more and not expect from them to tell me what is waiting for me, but!!!! unfulfilled promisses, delays, lies, sweet talk to get ride of me, ... ok... I got my car on dyno few months back... yeah! works! Had some overheating issues started to remove turbo, manifold downpipe... for coating and I found leak between the engine and the manifold, manifold and turbo... I heard these leaks before but I could not locate them but now I found what was the cause... cheaply made exhaust manifold that bent, one bold came out of the manifold (turbo side) , just bad quality material. I paid 900 for it, only dyno time and all these problems., are you kidding me. Manifold was built by AZRR. I took the manifold for the repair to azrr and they said you overheated your manifold, they made it flat again and then they said , if you want we will build you another one , better for free. All I had to do is leave my manifold there and they will build one when they are not busy. I kinda knew what is waiting for me but I said ok I can wait a month. Today was half of that month and I just ask if there was any progress, guess what , he said you manifold is freebie dont bother us , we will get to it when we have time. They even said take your manifold if the time is the issue... rude again. Well one month is what you promised... can not you keep your promises for once since I was 20K customer.... I lost my cool , I will pick up the manifold and done deal. I'm writing this during my work time when my bos is waiting for to do things... im already running late on ... anyways.. you understand my frustration. I expect some people to come back at me ... thats fine but here is another voice against those who only care about you until you make that payment , later who gives a ****. 3 years I was hesitent to write this post, now here it is... There was lot more just can not remmember everything..

Gringo Grande

iTrader: (97)

I can understand you are upset. If you could break that up into paragraphs so people can actually understand what you are upset about it would help. I'm not reading that and trying to decipher it. Haha.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

I agree and you are totaly right, looks like bunch words put into the blender... I'm not upset about only one thing, I hope you see that... It's been piling up for a long time and finally I just decided to write this review in short time at work. In the beggining I was keeping it calm, try to understand from their perspectives, be cool... and what not, but when I look back and add all up I have been humiliated by this shop. So forgive me if my post was unclear and hard to read, but I'm upset RX7 owner who is getting ready to sell everything!
To summarize :
- Waiting for things to be done forever. Never on time. My engine was laying in their shop for like a year, 3 and half years later because of them my car is still down
- Unfulfilled promises... lost count how many
- Given some discounts in the beggining which were lost later on.
- Was told to pay one thing , bill was close to 2 times more.
- Sweet talk to drag you in and beggining of the project.
- No customer support afterwards
- Sold me crappy exhaust manifold, only dyno time and leaks everywhere, I have pics to show. Told me that I overheated manifold and it started bending. Told me it would take month to make a new one (better) for free.. free, gift? This never happened!
- Sold me used clutch for 200 which I had to replace right after dyno. They told me it should be fine for at least 10k miles. Time and effort and more money to install new one...
- Everytime we had disagreement AZRR would say : "we are done" .

Do not expect any customer support after you make payment and wait forever for things to be done!

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

It's same from both sides

glenrx7

iTrader: (1)

They are two sides to this story..... I don't want to drag this out and make both parties look bad. Bottom line is we are Sorry this person feels this way . We wish we could please everyone. I am not sure what this person wants but so far I have tried to help and I have fallen short. All I can say is most everything in this has been exaggerated. I will be back with detail. I have to gether up our invoices to Hiboost and I have recorded every conversation and saved all transactions. I will be posting all of the details soon.

southsidecox

iTrader: (52)

so you will be posting those details soon? hmmm, looks like the op is accurate with the above accusations,i personally would stay the hell away from your business until i was convinced this guy didnt get ripped...

RedBaronII

iTrader: (4)

2 months and a week is enough to time to gather all information, where is it???

1TxRx7

iTrader: (16)

20k and no running car?? WTF !!!!

glenrx7

iTrader: (1)

Details:

1. customer paid 2500 for t67 turbo kit. Kit included turbo, down pipe, manifold, waste gate, turbo plumbing.

2. Customer paid 11k for engine ( all new mazda parts including rotor housings), turbo kit, fuel system(cj rail kit, Injector dynamic injectors), Ground zero lower intake, parts polished, new water pump, ss omp lines etc....

He also bought other parts that added up, such as a brand new haltech system with harness, pulley kit, etc.

3. The customer brought us an engine , The engine was pulled by the customer.

4. At the end the customer ran out of money and asked if i could help him with a clutch. We sold him a clutch from a customer that had it running on a 300hp plus car. The customer even said " when I have more money i will get a better clutch".

5. We wanted to help the customer with wiring the ECU offered to do it at no charge , however we were very busy trying to keep up with other customer projects. We told the customer that we would try and help but could not promise anything.

6. In the end this all started because the customer was offered an upgrade for free, we were not able to get it done in his time frame and he became very rude threatening and demanding. We no longer offer the customer an upgrade for free. The manifold that we sold him was made ina batch the others are running fine on other cars with no issues.

Here is a picture of the customers engine setup.

glenrx7

iTrader: (1)

picture of engine and turbo set up...

As you can see we did not "rip" anyone off. I am in no way saying we are perfect, we are sorry this person is not happy. We tried to help him out and make him happy.

theo481

iTrader: (10)

So just to get things clear....

He paid you 13500 dollars, to have a motor built by you guys?? Did you tell him that you would wire it, only to never have it done? How would you say this overheating caused one of the manifold bolts to just come out? It looks to me like the manifold wasn't bolted down properly (by you or him), but if he picked the motor, and you told him complete just add wires, this is not a good way to treat a (what I think) high dollar customer. As it looks in the pictures, you had the manifold bolted down, correct me if I'm wrong. If that is the case, the manifold is for sure your problem.

Also, the fact that he brought you "Just the engine," but you replaced everything (your words, not mine), what does that have anything to do with it?

I am also curious of the time frame. From drop off to any pickup dates, or interaction dates.

If it really took you more than a year, there is definitely some explaining to do.

What is causing the leak too?

He could have bought a whole damn car, single turbo modified well for what he paid you guys, just for the motor. No joke.

I wish this guy would have said "here is 13k I want running car" to me!!!!

southsidecox

iTrader: (52)

if the motor was put together using all new mazda parts,you should list that,i know new rotor housings,etc. are ungodly expensive that could help(or hurt) your side of the story,if he really did have to replace that(used)clutch after a dyno run then it wasnt worth squat

southsidecox

iTrader: (52)

if that manifold cost him $900, from the pics it looks like it at least needs surfacing to make it flat again,he would deserve that much...... rude or not

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I've got news for you guys, 11k is about right for all of those things listed below. Armchair quarterbacks and those just looking to stir the pot need not post anything unless they feel like getting a short vaction

"2. Customer paid 11k for engine ( all new mazda parts including rotor housings), turbo kit, fuel system(cj rail kit, Injector dynamic injectors), Ground zero lower intake, parts polished, new water pump, ss omp lines etc...."

rx7roller02

I am a bit concerned that the turbo kit is mentioned twice in the numbers....first, you say the customer paid $2500 for the turbo setup. Then, you included the turbo kit in the cost of the engine. I am also concerned that you say the mani was "one of a batch" and that the others are working fine--that does not mean anything at all so I do not know why you mentioned it. Lots of companies make things in batches, that does not mean that they no longer stand by their work because "the other ones we made at that time are good".

I also would like your take on the time frame for all of this. You said you put off the wiring work, but what about the build itself? How long did it take you to get his engine to him the first time? If it really did take over a year, something is not right....

glenrx7

iTrader: (1)

I mentioned the price twice to make it clear that the customer paid 2500.00 for the kit not 900.00 for the manifold.

Time frame was exaggerated. Not only did it not take a year but the first 4 month I had no money from the customer to start. He left the state for a new job and we kept the engine until he had made some money and was settled in with his new job and new location.

dhahlen

iTrader: (5)

TL;DR

99% of shops will not warranty an install if they did not do it. Therefore, if that manifold came off the engine when doing the install, most places will not warranty it. I don't know the full situation, but this is likely how most shops would handle a customer regarding a manifold they installed.

Let me provide my opinion on AZRR and Glen by answering / replying to some of the OP's comments.

- Waiting for things to be done forever. Never on time. My engine was laying in their shop for like a year, 3 and half years later because of them my car is still down. This is speculative, you can blame AZRR all you want, but your car could be down for many reasons.
- Unfulfilled promises... lost count how many (any smart customer will know that a promise is not a guarantee, Glen does his best to keep customers happy, but its not so cut and dry, but things change, people leave, customers change their mind, schedules change, I wouldn't hold that against any business owner unless they specifically gave me a guarantee)
- Given some discounts in the beggining which were lost later on. (how do you figure? he may have gave you a discount, but then discovered you needed more parts, was he supposed to give you those for free too? Just asking, again I don't know the facts)
- Was told to pay one thing , bill was close to 2 times more. (again, you needed more parts, he can't give away stuff. You were given an ESTIMATE, and a price can be exact until everything is broken down)
- Sweet talk to drag you in and beggining of the project. (Sales, he doesn't have a sales rep, he sells his own product.)
- No customer support afterwards (Glen does not have a customer support line, but he does have a lot of customers that need their projects finished. I highly doubt he'd throw you to the curb)
- Sold me crappy exhaust manifold, only dyno time and leaks everywhere, I have pics to show. Told me that I overheated manifold and it started bending. Told me it would take month to make a new one (better) for free.. free, gift? This never happened! (Were you up front with him about it? If he said he'd cover replacing a manifold, I would believe him)
- Sold me used clutch for 200 which I had to replace right after dyno. They told me it should be fine for at least 10k miles. Time and effort and more money to install new one... (Did he bust out the dial calipers and measure the clutch surface? Doubtful. Guess what, I just about a car and asked for an estimate on a clutch. Guy estimated 20k miles left on it, and it went out in 600 bucks. I asked him to cover half of my replacement costs, he agreed. Just a similar situation I was in... you can't ask someone for the life of a clutch, its different for every car, every driver, every situation.)
- Everytime we had disagreement AZRR would say : "we are done" .

Not to use this as an excuse for Glen, but he's a busy guy... a no b.s., busy as hell guy, trying to make a living and a better product for all his customers. I've seen his work, the builds, the power his engines make, and the quality of works he puts into them. Well worth the money. I would go as far to say that he builds one of the better engines in this country, having had about 4 built by various vendors myself, his is/was top notch.

I can't speak on the business issues that Glen has to face, but I can tell you that you'll be taken care of. Sure, it may not be the quickest turn around, but if Glen dropped everything for every customer, nobody would ever get anything. He's nearly a one man show, he builds the engine from the ground up, so when he puts them together, you know you're getting his work and experience, not anybody with a shop manual and a eye for mechanics.

I know Glen, I know what he has to deal with, and I've dealt with him for a long time. I'll tell you he takes more bullshit than most business owners would ever take, and I feel that 99% of the **** he takes is not because of his work, it's because the customer wants something done half assed and when they don't get half assed and they get a bill for a quality build, they find something to bitch about. Not saying thats the case here, but why build a quality engine to crap it out with other ebay b.s.

Pay to play, be patient, and address the issues accordingly.

I hope things work out for you, but bad mouthing his work on the forum is not going to get things done for you any quicker. You ask for his help, he decides to take care of a manifold with a free replacement, then you crap all over his shop.

As I said, I don't have all the facts, I'm just going off what I know from Glen and what you've posted. But, I really hope it works out in the end for both of you. When your car is back up and running, you'll be happy you stuck with AZRR and feel that these comments weren't posted in the first place.

rx7roller02

I asked why you mentioned the turbo kit twice when detailing the costs. I was not asking about the mani. You said he paid $2500 for the turbo kit. You then said he paid $11K for the engine, at which point, you listed the parts he paid for in that engine......and thats where you mentioned the turbo kit again, the one you even admit he already paid $2500 for. This is the point I am trying to clarify, please let me know.

Also, please understand, I am not trying to knock your business. I just want to get to the bottom of this. The manifold seems to have gone wrong. Regardless of what any other customer's experience was, is it impossible for this one mani to have had a legitimate problem? I have yet to see anyone here, including yourself, post anything that says "the manifold was not done wrong, here is what happened". If this engine seriously only had dyno time, and it overheated this badly, then I would imagine that there would have been more damage to the engine than just the mani, no?

Is he telling the truth about spending in the neighborhood of $20K at your shop on this project? Honestly, it seems as if you danced around that in your response.

He said that when he asked you about progress on the free replacement manifold you offered, you told him, "yours is a free one, dont bother us" and "we will get to it when we have time". is this correct?

I have one other observation, and this is something that we have dealt with on this forum with other vendors. In my book, when a customer spends nearly $20,000 at a shop, that person has the right to expect that they will receive reasonably prompt service. Note, I said "reasonably prompt". It is not reasonable to think that you should drop everyone else's car until theirs is done. But in this deal, problems did come up. When those problems came up, you agreed to make good. At that point, the mindset should not have been "we'll get to you when we can fit you in, we're doing this for free". The guy paid you money to have a proper manifold and he apparently did not get one, so the fact that he isnt paying for the replacement does not matter--he is waiting to get what you told him you would provide for the money he already spent. Again, I dont expect you to drop everything for him, but imagine how you would feel--being the customer, it is not your fault that the mani went wrong. So why should you be made to wait on and on and on? I disagree with that.

I do not know your shop. It sounds like you are basically a one-man show. Might I suggest that you not take on so much at one time? We have seen this before too--good mechanical service is only part of what customers are paying for. We all know that projects like these can take a while, but this one sounds like it went on for quite a while. I understand what you are saying about the first four months, but he's talking about over a year going by, and at that point the work still wasnt done.

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

Hiboost, if the builder is waiting for you for parts, you lose the right to complain about timeframe. You should have parts ready before they are needed. You should always save some extra money in case the budget runs over. A week delay waiting on your part doesn't lead to the deadline being pushed back a week. Especially at a big shop with tons of projects going on.

As for promises, in my book, a promise is a guarantee. If you can't guarantee something don't promise it in the first place. The only thing left to assumption should be if conditions have changed, all promises are off unless otherwise stated by the builder.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

Went thru my emails and this is the summary:

03/26/07 engine dropped - Paid $2500
07/23/07 sent email asking for status -- Asked if more money is needed
08/30/07 Sent email asking for status again
09/04/07 - AZRR sent me pics of open engine and what should be done
09/12/07 - Asked status and do they need more funds. Answer was No.
09/14/07 - I said no rush at that point because I'm traveling and fyi that I will have more funds in 3 months
11/27/07 sent me picture of the exhaust manifold, not mine thou. Just selling me one.
11/30/07 decided on the turbo kit
03/07/08 - send note that I have more money ready
04/08/08 - I sent 6K which was 500 more than needed to cover all the parts and labor
05/20/08 picture of the rotor housing cleaned but not assembled, engine started building
05/23/08 block only put together
06/10/08 sent more money to cover fuel mods, polishing and rest
06/30/08 I asked when engine will be done
07/03/08 fuel system completed
07/09/08 AZRR decided to help me with wiring and installing the engine in the car, and told me that engine was basically done.
08/23/08 AZRR not available on the phone and email.
11/14/08 no response
04/09/09 Argument!
04/15/09 picked up the engine
04/25/09 Missing parts from the engine , oil pen leaking.

At this point I stopped dealing with AZRR rockets for awhile... For one year I was trying to finish the install myself , wiring, fuel, intercooler, piping , ECU etc.. lots of reading, failing... learning and struggle. I somehow put it together 9-10 months back and towed it to the dyno shop.. where I found out that my clutch was bad , oilpen was leaking all over the place (payed extra for new oilpen bracket that suppose to avoid this issue). I guess I can live with the oil leak but there was manifold leak as well... nightmare. Called AZRR again told them about issue... no response on the oil leak , just sold me another pressure plate and told me tighten the manifold more. After clutch swap and one run my engine died. You can imagine my frustration. I called AZRR to tell them about this described the problem and they told me to remove the engine and give it to them , looks like it was blown. Well that was another mistake.... months waiting just to check if the engine was really blown or not... Finally after few months they told me engine is ok I can come and pick it up. BTW they did not fix the oil leak! Picked up the engine put it back again and after some troubleshooting found out that my ignition box was bad... Removed the manifold and gave it AZRR to fix it but they told me they will make another for free... I said whatever just give me manifold that works ... I was promised in one month, rest I already said before... I never owned a cent to AZRR, and wanted to have honest and respectful business... that did not happen.

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

Dhahlen,

If I remember your car was in that same shop for really long time... picking up the dust.
Am I right?

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

Another interesting thing is that I received lots of messages from other members who personally or someone they know dealt with this shop and had bad experience as well. I guess it makes me feel better that i'm not the only one, but sad that this is happening lot more than I though. I would appreciate if these people instead of messaging me would actually post on this tread their issue with AZRR.

rx7roller02

So, at this point, someone is lying to us.....only question is who.

hiboost, I know this is a bit of a mess, but could you forward me those emails with full headers? Check your PMs for address to send them to. Thanks.

glenrx7

iTrader: (1)

Ok boys and girls....I am done trying to defend my self here. This is my last response.

Only thing that needs to be said is I am not lying. This has been a very a very long time and I can remember every detail. I looked back in all my emails and chats with this past customer. The fact is we tried to help him out when ever he asked. The thing he does not point out is every time he needed something we helped out no not on time always, but helped out.

He mentioned that we helped him when he said he popped his engine. He also blamed me for not diagnosing it correctly. He called and said I think i blew my engine. I listened to the issue and what happened and said I dont think you blew it, you need to do a compression test. He said he did not have a way to do that and felt that it needed to come out of the car I said before you do that pull the leading plug one rotor at a time and try and listen to it and see if it has even bumps. He said he did and brought it to us thinking it did not sound even and said go ahead and tear it down. I said hey after spinning it around it felt ok, I did not want to tear it down we needed to comp test it before we went further. He left town, I tried to get it done but had no way to compression test it not being in a car unless i got a bell housing and test it on a stand, so we did. Its had ok cold low rpm compression, yet did not feel 100% about it so I did it three more times and the numbers changed yet it always seemed even. So not having the time to put it in a car I did it one last time on the stand with the conclusion that it was good. He asked for a bill I said no we are good no charge. He came and got it turns out his ignition went bad....So he states in his rant that I missed diagnosed this????????????

Bottom line is when I told him we fixed his manifold and would not be able to build one for him in his time frame he started threatening us " I am going to get some free time and make sure you pay on rx7club".... This guy is trying to hurt us with admitted malice. Over the course of this relationship he has thrown fits threating us etc...Weather or not we made any mistakes i cant help someone that does not want to be reasonable.


I fixed his manifold we decked it, checked it for any issues other than a warped head flange . The manifold is fine I would run it on my car no problem. So he has a properly decked manifold that is very nice and works well. However because i made the mistake of mentioning i was willing to upgrade him for free but it would take a while he wanted it done asap and we did not have time to build a free upgrade in his time frame, he now is living up to his threat and bashings on the forum.

We are not perfect, we do take more time than we should that I will agree with, trying to fix that every day. We deliver good products and good customer service. I said in the beginning we are not perfect but we try and be the best we can be.

As far as the "people" pming this person that are not happy. I have a disgruntled x employee that was let go due to being shady and is now on this forum bashing my name , also clearly ripping people off.


Mirko, sorry you feel this way but it is a two way street........

hiboost

iTrader: (1)

Was I rude and upset? At one point, one phone call, I admit yes. Why? I think it's clear. Few months later I apologized because I tried to make it work again. We start talking but nothing changed. You knew I needed you to help me finish the car. I could have come here and complain long time ago but I always thought as long as I finish my car I do not care.
I never wanted anything for free, lets be clear on that. Do your thing, I pay, we both happy. I understand you can be busy, but if you expect me to understand you can I expect you to understand me? No car for 4 years now... I remember my car only when people ask me for it...
Now... manifold. You say manifold is fine, would you buy it back?
If its fine why after few hours on dyno start deforming? Why did it need to get flatten out? Why screw pulled out of the flange? What possibly could be my mistake here. Professional tuner tuned it. You tune your cars at this shop all the time. How much confidence I should have after installing this manifold again that will work fine? You said , I quote... "We did not know much back then, now we learned and we build much better manifolds....". You showed me new manifold I said wow that looks much better, can I get one (did not ask for free). You offered for free ready in one month (not asap as you said). I said great, thank you very much. I offered funds if not cover whole manifold but at least a portion so he does not feel short. Then I'm scheduling another tuning session (at least week in advance) and asking you what is the progress... You said if this is gonna be time issue come and pick up your old manifold and lets split ways... Have all the emails and chat conversations to back it up...

Just recently one of my 2jz friends told me that you are selling you RX7 and told him that you are tired of rotary unreliability! RX7 shop owner should not say this IMPO.