jon4825

iTrader: (1)

I brought my car to one of the "best" shops in the MD, PA, DC, and VA area for a complete rebuild and street port of my 93 FD. I dropped my car of in May of 2011 and paid half of the pricey cost 3500 with another 3500 due at pickup. I was told it would take 8 - 12 weeks. I have had so many problems with builds and tuners whether it be from getting ripped of by Mazsport in Tampa Florida 4-5 years ago or now in having my car in the shop for close to a year at one of the "best" shops in the nation. I dont know what to do. I keep getting told, oh we will have it done before Oct... then oh by Christmas... than oh right after new years. I feel like I have so much time invested in this shop alone I keep on giving them the benefit of the doubt. I dont want to rip it out of the shop then have to fight over money... than have to do it all over again on a car that is only 30% rebuilt.

Any advise...?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

for over $7k i am assuming you are having a bit done including custom work done, if so, keep your panties on. patience is a virtue and you own a specialized car, it takes more than nuts and bolts to build these cars unlike a honda. keep bugging them every few weeks and eventually you will get it back.


btw, you listed a rant thread without naming anyone. not sure this even belongs here.

running a rotary shop isn't as easy or glamorous as you might wish upon anyone. pretty soon i will be the next Mel Gibson, ranting things that make no sense and claiming to be the son of god coming to take over the world! hiring a crew isn't too easy when you make less than $6 per hour yourself(probably an exaggeration for most other shops).

unfortunately custom builds usually get put on the backburner for periods of time, this is just a simple fact as some shops simply don't have the resources to flip cars quickly and productively.

13x

talk to them, set up a meeting face to face, evaluate the progress/if any, express your expectations being reasonable of course and see where things go from there.

Sadly it appears to happen way too often, you work hard for your money and want to spend it on your car but some shops forget whats called customer service. They are the "professionals" and they gave you the timeline of 8 to 12 weeks now in my opinion they should be contacting you and explaining the delay not you having to ask.

I will never understand why when it looks like a deadline is not going to be meet that the bussiness is not the one to start to initiate the communication

BUMBLEBEE7

iTrader: (1)

communication is the key! Regardless custom build take time or not the line of communication with the customer should be open and honest.

Agreed with 13x set up a meeting.

And also, just because " its the best shop" you still have the right to hold them accountable so they stay the "best shop".

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

because owning and running most smaller businesses these days you do the job of 3 people.

at the end of the day it's a 2 way street. people who also contacted me for example about timeframes never had much issue with delays.

yes a job taking a long time can be an irritation but it is one you probably should get accustomed to with one of these cars, but also be weary of people attempting to rip you off by communicating with the shop also and checking up on things.

it may be expected of most repair shops to keep you updated but those general repair shops also have receptionists or service advisors, it is their job to update customers and handle all the paperwork. in those instances you never even talk to the person who is touching your car. when i get to the shop my first thoughts are what work i will do for the day, not who to call and go over everything that has been done. add in the calls of locals who need misc fixes done so they can drive their cars to work, it gets pretty messy most days to even know whether you are standing on your head or on your feet.

don't forget bookkeeper, just wasted a day doing my taxes. hell, it's been over 2 years and i still haven't finished organizing the shop.. usually when i hear stories like this i can also relate to the shop owner if it is a smaller shop with no crew, but we have no idea who this is in reference to.


anyways, call them up and get the story, visit the shop and see the progress or non progress and decide then on what to do. if you're intent on getting them pinned down here then post the shop name and let them show up and defend themselves and/or give their version, otherwise this thread is worthless.

i've had almost as many people irritated with waiting in line to get their car into the shop as there was in the shop getting work done taking a while to complete. sometimes you just can't win.

13x

^ he ended his post with "any advise...?"

It would tend to be a sign that he's trying to be fair and not throw someone under the bus

Whats wrong with that?

Communication is part of doing biz, can't communicate with the person with the money in their pocket how do you get it in yours?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just in the wrong section then i suppose.

anyways, i guess the answer would be that if they don't have time to talk then most people are pointing to one of 2 things. hire some help or if things can't be done in a reasonable timeframe then they shouldn't be in business.

keep in mind most businesses are struggling to stay above water, doing extra things in order to keep work coming in(in many cases free services). that also hurts turnaround time and cuts into overhead costs more. ideally you would pick and choose better paying jobs or raise rates, sometimes you can't.

unfortunately this isn't china, still costs a chunk for a house and shop space still costs what it did before the dip in the economy. banks tend to think it is better to have an empty building than it is to rent a space out for reasonable rates.

unfortunately for this reason i also added a disclaimer before i ended taking on more jobs of: if you aren't patient then find someone else.
after all that Josh bullshit and the lying in order to make me look worse than i am.

Slow Rotor

Nah stuff that, you can't stand up for a shop that's taken over a year to rebuild an engine. I understand your story karack and sure its ok to get pushed back for a few jobs but it comes to a point (such as this one as it's been 12 months) where you have to stop and look after your existing customers. 3 months estimate seems to be a very long time to get a rebuild done, 12 is ridiculous I'd be hitting them up for a substantial discount.

I also think the shop should be named and shamed. I know I'm in AUS and no where near a potential customer but if I heard a story like this from an aussie shop I would not consider them an option.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yes i have a hard time defending that, but have also taken close to that long for some jobs. so i'm still curious as to the details of the build and why it is taking so long. i'm sure there is some underlying issues that haven't been explained.

i got pinned for taking 9 months to warranty an engine, of course the fact that it took almost 6 months to recieve the rotor and housings from the customer was omitted. incidentally i also gave him $550 in free labor resurfacing the housings and lapping the irons during the warranty, this was also to be sure the same issue did not arise again.

i was pinned for taking a year to complete an S5 TII build, alot of it being custom work, detailing and fabrication or R+D work, of course it did make 495WHP on a 35R once it was finished and the smile on the owner's face i could never duplicate, well aside from Leo's face after we fired up his 13B-RE cosmo running ethanol, which incidentally also took about a month longer than anticipated(because you simply CANNOT look at a bare stripped down car and give a person an exact timeframe or cost, period).

another car has had inherent issues and keeps popping motors, so we are finally stepping back the build to a more comfortable starting point instead of him expecting more out of the car with each failed attempt.


sometimes it just takes a simple explanation, and sometimes your patience pays off.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I wonder...

Had a similar experience with these shops. Car sat for over 6 months, pretty much in the same place where the tow truck left it. Talked to another close by shop, and they promised me that they would take care of the car asap. Sent the car to the second shop, where it spent over 14 months.

I understand the waiting, and I am more that cool with that, but when shops take care of cars on the fly while yours been waiting in line for months, or even worst, when the shop returns a "tuned" car that idles at 10afr, wideband reads "rich" when the primary to secondary transition comes up, and get 180mpg combined driving without going WOT...

It does sucks donkey *****!

My advice, don't call the shop, show up and do the talking face to face (not agressively tho)

rx7roller02

To be honest, none of this matters one bit. And I'm going to tell you why....


When you are a business--WHATEVER KIND OF BUSINESS YOU ARE--when you tell a customer that you will have the job done in a certain amount of time, IT IS ON YOU TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. When you tell someone you will be done in a certain number of weeks and we are now up to ONE YEAR without even being 50% completed, that is the fault of the shop. It is that simple. Ben, I said the same thing last time to you and it doesnt seem to have registered. WHEN YOU TELL A CUSTOMER A CERTAIN TIME FRAME, YOU HAD BETTER BE ABLE TO DELIVER IN THAT TIME FRAME. IF YOU CANNOT, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS AT ALL TELLING THEM THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Bottom line--custom work or not, this is UNACCEPTABLE. Every job I do in my business is custom work, and I need to deliver when promised. There is NO EXCUSE for telling a customer that their project will take 8-12 weeks, and then not being even halfway done after a whole year. I dont want to hear about other projects coming up, etc etc etc....one of my accounts pays me over $60K per year on contract--that doesnt give me the right to push a $1K customer out of the way and change my promised completion time because of the bigger fish. KEEPING YOUR WORD is the mark of a professional business.....anything other than that is not acceptable here.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

it's different in that you have a single contract with $60k a year, when your net income for the year was under $15k you can see that shuffling things around might be a necessity. it registered plenty for me, to the point that i see it's simply NOT worth the headache anymore. i doubt this is the case here but simply i think this person isn't telling the whole story, i've had people stack on more things during a job which inevitably adds time to the build and sometimes it doesn't register with people that it adds time onto the build.

point is he should name the shop and hopefully the shop responds with their side of the story. i find that some people skew things out of anger, because they themselves are not open, not because you aren't. indecisions can cost you a bit because it REALLY screws up a schedule if the shop is on tight timeframes. in many cases your car is NOT the only one in the shop and there are others waiting, sometimes you CANNOT make promised timeframes and there is no arguing that.

1 year is a long time, but we only know some vague story. there is 2 sides to every coin............................................ next we will hear that the job DID change, messed up the shop's schedule and none of this registered on the other end. some obscure part from japan was ordered(requested by the customer with strange needs) and has been on backorder for 6+ months, etc etc, it's all speculation on any end here.

my point is and always has been everyone tends to believe the first thing that goes into the ear, stop being a sheep.

rx7roller02

Dude, youre starting to wear me thin on this topic.....dont talk to me about being a sheep. I know what it takes to run a business--I do it every damn day!

If you cannot meet a promised deadline then DO NOT PROMISE A DEADLINE. What in the world is so hard about that?? Its really something how many excuses I see like this--the shop had no trouble making the deadline--so why in the world would a customer expect anything other than that deadline to be met?? YOU SET YOUR CUSTOMER'S EXPECTATIONS BY WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. This had better be the LAST TIME I see you taking up defense for this problem. If I have a job where the time frame is subject to change I PUT IT IN WRITING and I EXPLAIN to the customer what could cause a delay so that THEY EXPECT THE SAME THING I DO. How in the hell do you get off making like it should be fine to promise a customer one thing, then deliver something completely different?? IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE--THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE. AND I DO NOT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THAT.

What you tell your customer is what sets their expectation. A customer has NO REASON to think their job will be done in 12 weeks if you tell them that you cannot set a time frame due to whatever reason. If you are HONEST UP FRONT with them, THEY HAVE NO REASON TO COMPLAIN LATER.

Yes, the shop needs to be identified. yes, there are two sides to every story. But the last time I dealt with you on this one, the problem was NOT YOUR CUSTOMER--it was the expectation YOU SET, and then could not live up to. YOU RUN A SHOP--YOUR CUSTOMERS DO NOT. Do NOT expect them to cater to YOUR NEEDS--that isnt their job! It is YOUR job to cater to THEIRS. Thats what they pay you for!

Bryan Jacobs

iTrader: (66)

I talked to op because I'm a fellow rx7 owner in MD and know the shop and its a quite large shop (at least by Rx-7 standards) and probably measures revenue in the hundreds of thousands. So Karack this is not a small one-man operation (although there is one main person). If the op wants to name the shop that is up to him but I don't think it would matter because this shop is not active on this forum, although many of their customers are.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just ban me for **** sakes, i'm so tired of the rotary community.

not like i have any input here that i haven't already given for these cars a thousand times over time and time again. so shouldn't be missed, use the goddamn search button people!

believe me you'll be doing me a favor.

imluvinit

iTrader: (1)

I have a rough guess at which shop this is. I will not roll anyone under the bus but they do have a tendency to be a little slow and bad about customer communication. However, you will be hard pressed to find a better end product and nicer staff. I would suggest pushing the communication button really hard, its the best and most rational way to get a resolution. Good luck.

jon4825

iTrader: (1)

I am trying to be a good customer. Like I said, I have had many bad experiences at many Rotor Shops. As I mentioned when I was in Florida I got ripped pretty hard...in the way of quote being 10k and final bill being 18k... which is not a problem but they did not tell me till I picked it up (and yes I called them every 3 days for an update. So I learned that lesson, make sure I state extremely clearly ..here is budget and I am not going over it UNLESS we discuss it and I give approval.

The next shop in Florida I went to seemed to be great at first, till I had them upgrade my fuel system and tune...which somehow turned into my Micro -Tech getting fried and having to have it Rebuilt in Austrailia. All of that was not the problem. The problem was that I was calling every 2 days for a Update (to keep cost in check) and I also called Microtech Directly for an Idea of how much it was going to be to rebuilt the Microtech. Long Story short the shop called me and said they did not appreciate that I called microtech to find out how much it was going to be to rebuild.. They said I violated their trust and they then pushed my car into the street. So my Lesson learned was to try not to call for updates to often (even if they say it is ok). I also thought my second Lesson was going to be -- Stop taking my car to cheap / discount shops. -Go big or go home... or do it myself.

So I dont want to flame any shop by name because 1. My car is still there. 2. They guys seems nice. 3. I am not sure what help it will be.

So I moved to Maryland from Florida and wanted to go to a Top Notch shop even though it might be pricey. I call the shop and ask when they have an opening. We schedule my project about 2 months in the future.. May 2011 . Work to be done

-Streetport and Rebuild - I had blown an Apex Seal months before 5600
-Repair Wiring Harness Under left front tire and Repair wiring to Batter relocation - 500
-Tune and Misc small repairs- 1000

May 2nd 2011 arrives and I drop the Car off and got in writing the price and repeatedly stated that price can not change unless I give approval. - No issues there

I tell them to please give me a realistic time I can look to have the work completed and I am told 8 -12 weeks.

I deposited 3500 and felt good about everything. I asked if I could call once a week and he said to call as much as I like.

12 weeks later no car.. This entire time I never recieve any call or notice that things are behind schedule.

Month 5 - same thing. They dont call. They dont email. I call about 2 times a week and no one answers phone. I email and ask for someone to call me. I finally get them on the phone and I am told it needs more time

Month 6-9- Same story expect it is hard to get in contact with anyone. It takes about 10 calls or 4 emails to get a response. Response this time is that another car that has been on longer than mine needs to be completed. But I am promised to have it Competeled before Christmas...still no car.. Then I am promised to have it completed in janurary .. still no Car

Month 11-12 . Still no car. No one calls me. No emails He called me on his cell be accident and I asked him if I can reach him by this number. He says sure.. I have called that number 50 times and no one has ever picked it up.

So now I have 12 months invested in this shop. I am still the happy customer, email very friendly emails, always saying Thanks for working on my car, .. even though I feel disrespected, pushed to the side, and eating sh#t.

I do what I am suppose to do. I call for updates, no one answers. I email and takes weeks for a reply.

Thanks for listening,

One Frustrated Rx-7 owner,

Jon

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I am now 100% sure that the shop you area talking about is the same shop that had my car for over 6 months, without even moving it from the spot where is was left the day it was dropped.

I too went through the same phone calls/emails. I know the owner is a good person, and one of the best; however having the best NOT working on my vehicle does me no good. I remember hinting you about this issue, not that it makes a difference, but it sucks that you are going through it.

My advice, forget the phone calls and emails, do personal visists in order to get updates. There are other shops further north, that might be willing to take your car and finish it for you; thats what I ended up doing.

Others might not be as good, but at least you will have your car back on the street.

jon4825

iTrader: (1)

I would love to drive out there more often, I live 2-3 hours away and I have 2 kids...2 1/2 year old and a 3 week old. It is hard to tell the wife...hey I am taking a day off to go to the shop and check on my car...by the way honey, I have no idea if they will be there because they don't return my calls or answer the phone.

So my wife absolutely hates my car. Out of the 5-6 years I have owned it, I maybe put 10k on it. Funny thing is that it is suppose to be my daily driver. So I have been sharing my wife's bimmer for the last 5 years.. Thank god I was in the Army for part of this...so I was deployed most of the time and now I work from home 3-4 days a week. I guess I should just risk it and pop in.

And to all those comments about other side of the coin.. or I ordered special parts from Japan. There is no other side. There are no special parts to order, all I am doing is an inhouse rebuild and some wiring harness repairs. there has been 0 project scope creep. I cant even change the project if I wanted to because no one will answer my calls or return my email. There is no other side when the last real update I had was 6 months ago stating, We pulled the engine and your broken apex seal did not damage your turbo (thank god). I think I know what other customers are taking up my all his time. I look on their youtube page and see these crazy 800hp RX-7... dont get me wrong they are beautiful and spend 10x as much as me.. Maybe If I go and wave 80k at a project I might get some customer service.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

it was speculation since you didn't give any specifics. apparently a few customers who weren't thrilled with delays in my work tended to leave out those specifics as well and in some cases lie to make you look bad.

turbodrx7

iTrader: (43)

why the secret? I guarantee its Ray at PFS lol.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

If it is Ray. he is a good guy and he is the only guy their 85% of the time. Coming from experience in this line of work. Its a lot of work to rebuild 15 Rx7s at once. All you can do is do them one at a time and its hard to tell how long its going to take from start to finish if you are number 15 on that list. Its even harder when everyone wants to talk to you on the phone all day. If you are on the phone your not fixing cars. I sure hes working very hard to get them all finished. The next thing is you still need time to your self at some point man. I was at my shop 7 days a week from sunrise to sunset and my girl was ready to kill me or leave me. So cut him some slack and if you want to talk to him just go up there. its tuff doing this job and most the time not worth the money for the time you put in.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

^^^ Very true from first hand experience

Slow Rotor

Seems like people need to learn to tell customers that they are overbooked.

gxl90rx7

iTrader: (1)

bingo. and seriously, how long does it take to do a rebuild, harness, and tune? you can do a rebuild in under 16 hrs, harness in under 8, another 8 for the tune and misc stuff.. thats only four days of work for 12 months of delays.. and i would say those hours are bloated, especially with decent shop space and tools