crispeed

Interesting read.

http://efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...53c862fa0d667a

Pimp Hand

iTrader: (3)

Yeah the time was a guess. I dont remeber exactly. It was 3 runs before he didnt want to play any more.

calculon

iTrader: (29)

JAC-372546 is the part number for a setup I was looking at on summitracing.com

what do you guys think? I was thinking of initially (for cost's sake) just getting one for each leading coil. right now i'm running 6 ls1 coils (internal ignitors) but i want to move to CDI after doing a little research.

thanks in advance for and advice.
ryan

calculon

iTrader: (29)

no advice?

anybody?

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Little off topic but has anybody ever tested the HKS twin power amp to see if it does much ?

cmack133

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious about the TWP as well. How about running a TWP with 2 lx92 coils going to the leading plugs with B10EGVs all around?

signofinfinity

Speculation has it that the hks twin power superceeds, and compares to the jacobs ignition. Any truth to this?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

well just got both my lx92 coils in and my crane boxes and have one question. For the trigger, how do you send the trigger to both boxes? Just come from the original trigger wires and split that signal into to for both boxes?

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

the LG/B wire from the igniter connects to the two signal input wires to the amps. green wires for jacobs. the B/w wire splits to the other amp wire. you should also have a couple of amp output wires that go to the coils... sounds like you'll have a nice ignition.

howard coleman

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the info. Hopefully this will be a beefy enough ignition for the water/alky injection.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

I run 2- 0.9 aquamist nozzles with an Aquamist 2D system that has the race pump and a booster pump. The 2D system injects based upon IDC to maintain a constant ratio of fuel/water. To get different ratios, just change the jets. Injection point is the same as pimphands except mine aor on the bottom side of the GReddy tb. Also, I believe pimphand is running the 2S system which is fully mappable just like your fuel setup.
I run 100% water now. I've tried 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 ratios and didn't push any one of them. I decided on 100% water because methanol, or any alchohol injection for that matter, is illegal in the open track and time trial events I run in.

My ign setup is:
2-Jacobs Pro-Paks (1 for each leading)
2-Jacobs Ultra-Coils (1 for each leading)
Stock trailing
All plugs are NGK 10.5's
Magnecore 10mm plug wires

Tried running just NGK 9's and that wasn't cutting it. I'd still get breakup at about 14psi. Switched to 10.5's and no problems since. I don't run crazy boost numbers (yet) or lean it out to what some recommend (12.5 afr).
Fired up to 29 psi and also as low as mid-9 afr's as confirmed by Steve Kan.

I came up with this formula to determine what size nozzles (based on the Aquamist selection) or what % of water (or meth for that matter) you want to run based upon injector duty cycle.
Some of you may find this helpful and I hope it is accurate and correct. I saw RichardL the Aquamist guru chimed in on one of these threads. Perhaps he can confirm/correct/modify any of this info. I also posted this under the Aquamist forum 1-1/2+ years ago.

Given injector setup is 2x720cc primaries and 2x1600cc secondaries.
IDC = Injector Duty Cycle

To run 15% water to fuel at 70% IDC, I calculate this way:

(IDC) x (Total fuel cc's) x (Target % water) =
(.70) x (1440 +3200) x (0.15) = 448 cc's of water needed

Then, also assuming the water nozzles operate at 70% DC and one 0.9 mm WI nozzle flows 315cc (max), I get:

(15% water to fuel) / [(WI flow rate) x (IDC)] =
(448) / [(315) x (.70)] = 2 nozzles

So I would need two 0.9 mm nozzles to meet my 15%

Flow rates of Aquamist nozzles is avaliable on their website and is posted here for reference.

If you know basic algebra, you can rearrange and solve for any unkown (or two) after starting with different given values.

Node

iTrader: (1)

RX Heven, could you post some pics of your setup. I'm interested in your using two nozzles, do you run a tee from a single line to the twin nozzles or what?
Whats the reason for the boost a pump, the aquamist "race pump" (isnt this the one that comes w/ the 2d?) can't cut it on 12v? or are you after more stabile voltage?

Thanks,
Ben Martin



And for my WI setup. My car is running a hybrid s4 turbo w/ hks top mount and a ported 9.4:1 13BT motor (built for up to 9500rpm) . I have a brand new leading coil from last sevenstock, and was thinking just run one hi-6r for the leading and some magnecore 10mm's.
I was considering a di2 for the trailings but thought that would be overkill

mad_7tist

do any of the stand alone ecu's allow you to seperate firing of the leading front/rear? to eliminate the waste spark aspect of the system.

Pimp Hand

iTrader: (3)

Yeah i do run a 2s system. I can map my WI in a 3D fashion, just like one would in a stand alone ECU. (PFC, Haltech, AEM) I did my calculations a little different.

primaries ---- 850x2=1700
secondary’s ---- 1680x2=3360

1700+3360=5060cc/m.

Now (5060cc/m) assumes 43psi base pressure and 100% duty cycle. There is a problem with that. I NEVER want to run my injectors past 80% duty cycle. I know others have done it with success. But i have hydro locked a head off a engine from a couple of stuck injectors. In the process cracking the block. Normally I would take it in stride and go on. But the engine in question was not mine. I wound up having to pay a sizable amount of the rebuild costs.

SO 5060/80% (.8) = 4048cc/m max flow

This is the number I want to base my calculations off of.

So 4048*15% (WI)= 607.2cc/m flow
4048*16% (WI)= 647.6cc/m flow

So I run 15%-16% WI between 6k and 7k (torque peak) Remember my % scales up and down with boost pressure and RPM. And it’s at peak cylinder pressure where you need the most flow at.


My set up:
#1--2s Aquamist system
#2--2x 1mm Nozzles (620cc/m) (I flow tested both of my nozzles and the one on the right flows about 3% more than the one on the left) So the rear rotor gets a little more water than the front rotor. Since the rear rotor tends to run a bit leaner on boost.
#3--A race pump with a booster pump (maxes out around 630-650cc/m *tested*with my booster pump) The race pump only flows about 300-350 cc/m with out the booster pump.
#4--Base pressure of 125 psi
#5 and I keep tabs on every thing with a Aquamist DD2S



I am curently down for a rebuild (spun a bearing). But when it gets warm again(if my engine ever gets here) expect to see some hard core testing and high psi.

Pimp Hand

iTrader: (3)

We dont change the voltage at all. We just use a separate pump to supply the water to the race pump. There by doubling the flow.

IE run your wind shield washer fluid pump in to the back of the race pump and you will double the flow. Just make sure to test the flow.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

The main purpose of the additonal pump is to eliminate the need of accumulators in the system. Additonally, it provides the volume the system needs while the Aquamist racepump provides the pressure. With this setup, you can run more/larger injection nozzles, up to 2- 1.0 nozzles vs. just 1- 1.0 nozzle with just the racepump as pimphand had suggested in his "doubling the flow" statement.

Like I said before, my setup is just like pimphands as far as plumbing and locations are concerned. T'eed just like his etc except into the bottom of the tb elbow. If I were to do it over, I'd install the nozzles on top of the tb just like he did because of accesibility but I wanted a cleaner look.
Also, I don't have the DD2S installed in mine yet since that is a relatively recent release, but I will soon.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

crap! I just thought about this. will this work if my microtech is setup for stock coils? Please say yes

ronbros3

2 CRANE HI-6-DI2 amps, 4 LX-92 coils , triggered by Microtech LTX8, never had any prblems so far!!

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

Ok well after a few threads I've found that it should work but the real question is does it need an ignitor or will they just run straight off the microtech. Well I'm going to try Striaght off the microtech first and if that doesn't work I'll put the stock ignitor back in. If that still doesn't work I'm going to get an aftermarket ignitor. Any other input?

edit: Finally got us an AI section huh, nice!

Asleep

Chris,

I run it. I have read it is not a "true" CDI system and it uses "restrike." Here:

"Need ignition? Jacob’s rotary FC1000 is the one to have. We’ve installed this system on countless RX-7s and have been nothing but pleased with the results. Cleaner plugs and no misfires. This is a true capacitive discharge system, not just a simple restrike system like the HKS Twin-Power. This system actually amplifies the spark with up to three times the spark intensity. The FC1000 can be used with the factory ignition coil, but many often maximize the system with the addition of a performance coil. An additional feature is a dedicated tachometer output. This lead can be used for a shift light input, rpm activated switch, additional injector controller input, etc. Priced reasonably, this system installs easily with standard MSD connections. Install one today"

http://www.rx7.com/store/rx7/fdignition.html


Tony

Asleep

Howard,

In the interest of a plan for the supporting ignition for the upcoming AI system, could you provide more details on your setup as coil installation, wiring choice from the amps in the drivers side bin up to the coils, and anything else that might be helpful.

I am looking at the FC1000 or the FC3000 and same coils you are using.

Thanks,
Tony

BNA_ELLIS

Right, being too lazy to install two seperate coils for my leading plugs, as it involves having to install another ignition amp aswell. I'm taking the lazy option, I'll on the look out for for a twin tower aftermarket coil. the only ones I see are for motorcyles in general.
What's people thought on the below for example. Anyone run somehting like this at above 25psi of boost?

Brand: MSD Ignition
Product Line: MSD Twin Tower Pro Stock Motorcycle Ignition Coils
Coil Wire Attachment: Female/Socket
Coil Internal Construction: Epoxy
Maximum Voltage: 40,000 V
Turns Ratio: 100:1
Primary Resistance: 1.200 ohms
Secondary Resistance: 11.5K ohms
Mounting Bracket Included: No
Coil Wire Included: No
Ballast Resistor Included: No
Coil Color: Red
Coil Shape: Rectangle
Quantity: Sold individually.
Notes: Designed for use with the MC-3 digital Pro Stock motorcyle ignition system.

Ignition Coil, Twin Tower Pro Stock, Motorcycle, Rectangle, Epoxy, Red, 40,000 V, Each

Check to make sure this part fits your application
Ignition coils designed for Pro Stock Motorcycle racing.
These MSD Twin Tower Pro Stock Motorcycle ignition coils are specifically designed for use with the MC-3 digital Pro Stock Motorcycle ignition control box. They feature a twin male post tower that will provide maximum output spark, and are potted for vibration protection.

ronbros3

Im told that the X series Microtech has built in ignitors, could ask in Microtechs forum, a lot of good info there, i run an LTX8 on my FD engine, but another car FD Im doing is useing an LT10S, seems to be smoother runing, pull down to 800rpm in 4th gear and accelerate smoothly!! Ron

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

tony,

after deciding to run 100% methanol as injectant i decided i wanted to take ignition completely out of the picture as an problem area. read: overkill maybe.

as earlier posted, i run an ignition amp (FC3000 Jacobs digital) and a MSD 8253 coil on each leading plug. i also switched over to MSD Superconductor wires and i run NGK 6725 10.5 plugs.
(retaining stock coils on the trails w NGK B10EGVs)

this setup fired 9.0 to 1 AFRs with no problem.

the 64$ question is, once i get tuned out and am running 11.7 AFRs (or thereabouts) what do i really need??? for instance, last year i ran one Jacobs Rotary Pro Pak and a T2 coil. perhaps that might work just fine as i tune towards a bit leaner mixture.

once i dyno out (maybe next week) i will refixture things so as to run one amp and see what happens.

i developed a buzz in both amps and after checking all my wiring sent them back to Jacobs. i found out monday (not to my surprise) that the amps are fine. i will re-shield a few wires and if that doesn't stop the buzz i will just live w it. i searched over at MSD's (excellent) forum and was told by MSD that often amps buzz. o k.

one of the very interesting concepts moving ahead in AI-land will be just how does AI change all the various systems and concepts we use to tune our turbo'd rotaries... there will be changes in these systems and concepts.

howard coleman

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

well i think the lt10 comes with a little ignitor box right? or at least it's an option. I was getting break up in forth gear using an msd box and stock coils so i wonder if it was the ignition system or if it was just the problems some people have with running cdi boxes on the microtech system?