Help me Decide on NOZZLE(S) Locations................ *PIC*
09-30-08, 02:09 PM
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Help me Decide on NOZZLE(S) Locations................ *PIC*
I'm picking up a kit this week and need to decide on nozzle location.
Keep in mind, this is a non intercooled E85 setup.
For now, I was thinking two in the compressor discharge. I was thinking about putting one in front of the compressor inlet but couldn't think of a way to mount it. And, I won't have a filter before it gets tuned so mounting it there won't happen soon either.
Keep in mind, this is a non intercooled E85 setup.
For now, I was thinking two in the compressor discharge. I was thinking about putting one in front of the compressor inlet but couldn't think of a way to mount it. And, I won't have a filter before it gets tuned so mounting it there won't happen soon either.
09-30-08, 02:54 PM
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Couple questions. . .
1) What flow rate for each nozzle?
2) Is that your AIT sensor on the far right, center of the picture (on your "carb" hat near the firewall)?
3) Methanol, water, or mix?
1) What flow rate for each nozzle?
2) Is that your AIT sensor on the far right, center of the picture (on your "carb" hat near the firewall)?
3) Methanol, water, or mix?
09-30-08, 03:13 PM
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I still need to decide on nozzle size as well. Do you think two M15's would be too much?
Yes, that's my AIT on top of the carb hat.
Straight methanol.
Thanks for the help.
Straight methanol.
Thanks for the help.
09-30-08, 05:05 PM
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Re: nozzle size
I don't think it'd be too much. The only reason I was asking is that the larger the nozzle, generally speaking of course, the worse the atomization. Now this is minimized using pure methanol because of its tendency to vaporize. Why it would matter, potentially, is that you wouldn't want an arrangement where the two streams tended to mix, causing larger droplets to form that couldn't mix with your intake charge that well.
Re: AIT
That's a great place for it, I can't think of a better one. I was thinking initially of recommending putting one nozzle on each side of the throttle body for each set of butterflies, but then you wouldn't be reading your AITs correctly.
All that being said, I think that an arrangement similar to what you proposed is about as good as it gets. Just make sure that it isn't activated until you have at least a little bit of boost to be sure that it gets blown down into your engine and not into your compressor housing.
HURRY UP and get this b#*ch ripping.
I don't think it'd be too much. The only reason I was asking is that the larger the nozzle, generally speaking of course, the worse the atomization. Now this is minimized using pure methanol because of its tendency to vaporize. Why it would matter, potentially, is that you wouldn't want an arrangement where the two streams tended to mix, causing larger droplets to form that couldn't mix with your intake charge that well.
Re: AIT
That's a great place for it, I can't think of a better one. I was thinking initially of recommending putting one nozzle on each side of the throttle body for each set of butterflies, but then you wouldn't be reading your AITs correctly.
All that being said, I think that an arrangement similar to what you proposed is about as good as it gets. Just make sure that it isn't activated until you have at least a little bit of boost to be sure that it gets blown down into your engine and not into your compressor housing.
HURRY UP and get this b#*ch ripping.
09-30-08, 07:35 PM
#5
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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M15 = 15 GPH
15 GPH = 945 CC/Min
945 CC/Min * 2 = 1890 CC/Min total Meth.
FYI, i ran 2 10 GPH nozzles on my old setup. it took about 20 duty cycle points out of my gas consumption. 'worked great. (850s and 1600s)
your M15s should work fine.
you just aren't going to believe your knock numbers when you start to lean on the motor. meth is magic.
another nice thing is the auto-ignition temp for alcohol is 858 F and race gas is 660 so it is less likley to preignite.
i am finding i need to go to a hotter lead plug than my R6725 10.5s. the alcohol just cools it down so much. along w more timing.
i really suggest you digitally monitor pre turbo egts otherwise you might look fine on AFRs and be too cool. we had to add timing in spool areas.
as to location... i located my 2 nozzles in the silicone coupler an inch or two before the greddy elbow. meth needs to "flash" a bit before it enters the combustion chamber. with my new FJO fuel injector alcohol system i have the solenoids on custom bosses in the first inch of the greddy elbow.
my IAT sensor is about 5 inches upstream from the alcohol.
howard
15 GPH = 945 CC/Min
945 CC/Min * 2 = 1890 CC/Min total Meth.
FYI, i ran 2 10 GPH nozzles on my old setup. it took about 20 duty cycle points out of my gas consumption. 'worked great. (850s and 1600s)
your M15s should work fine.
you just aren't going to believe your knock numbers when you start to lean on the motor. meth is magic.
another nice thing is the auto-ignition temp for alcohol is 858 F and race gas is 660 so it is less likley to preignite.
i am finding i need to go to a hotter lead plug than my R6725 10.5s. the alcohol just cools it down so much. along w more timing.
i really suggest you digitally monitor pre turbo egts otherwise you might look fine on AFRs and be too cool. we had to add timing in spool areas.
as to location... i located my 2 nozzles in the silicone coupler an inch or two before the greddy elbow. meth needs to "flash" a bit before it enters the combustion chamber. with my new FJO fuel injector alcohol system i have the solenoids on custom bosses in the first inch of the greddy elbow.
my IAT sensor is about 5 inches upstream from the alcohol.
howard
10-01-08, 06:59 AM
#6
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M15 = 15 GPH
15 GPH = 945 CC/Min
945 CC/Min * 2 = 1890 CC/Min total Meth.
FYI, i ran 2 10 GPH nozzles on my old setup. it took about 20 duty cycle points out of my gas consumption. 'worked great. (850s and 1600s)
your M15s should work fine.
you just aren't going to believe your knock numbers when you start to lean on the motor. meth is magic.
another nice thing is the auto-ignition temp for alcohol is 858 F and race gas is 660 so it is less likley to preignite.
i am finding i need to go to a hotter lead plug than my R6725 10.5s. the alcohol just cools it down so much. along w more timing.
i really suggest you digitally monitor pre turbo egts otherwise you might look fine on AFRs and be too cool. we had to add timing in spool areas.
as to location... i located my 2 nozzles in the silicone coupler an inch or two before the greddy elbow. meth needs to "flash" a bit before it enters the combustion chamber. with my new FJO fuel injector alcohol system i have the solenoids on custom bosses in the first inch of the greddy elbow.
my IAT sensor is about 5 inches upstream from the alcohol.
howard
15 GPH = 945 CC/Min
945 CC/Min * 2 = 1890 CC/Min total Meth.
FYI, i ran 2 10 GPH nozzles on my old setup. it took about 20 duty cycle points out of my gas consumption. 'worked great. (850s and 1600s)
your M15s should work fine.
you just aren't going to believe your knock numbers when you start to lean on the motor. meth is magic.
another nice thing is the auto-ignition temp for alcohol is 858 F and race gas is 660 so it is less likley to preignite.
i am finding i need to go to a hotter lead plug than my R6725 10.5s. the alcohol just cools it down so much. along w more timing.
i really suggest you digitally monitor pre turbo egts otherwise you might look fine on AFRs and be too cool. we had to add timing in spool areas.
as to location... i located my 2 nozzles in the silicone coupler an inch or two before the greddy elbow. meth needs to "flash" a bit before it enters the combustion chamber. with my new FJO fuel injector alcohol system i have the solenoids on custom bosses in the first inch of the greddy elbow.
my IAT sensor is about 5 inches upstream from the alcohol.
howard
What leading plugs are you going to switch to?
10-01-08, 07:01 AM
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Re: nozzle size
I don't think it'd be too much. The only reason I was asking is that the larger the nozzle, generally speaking of course, the worse the atomization. Now this is minimized using pure methanol because of its tendency to vaporize. Why it would matter, potentially, is that you wouldn't want an arrangement where the two streams tended to mix, causing larger droplets to form that couldn't mix with your intake charge that well.
Re: AIT
That's a great place for it, I can't think of a better one. I was thinking initially of recommending putting one nozzle on each side of the throttle body for each set of butterflies, but then you wouldn't be reading your AITs correctly.
All that being said, I think that an arrangement similar to what you proposed is about as good as it gets. Just make sure that it isn't activated until you have at least a little bit of boost to be sure that it gets blown down into your engine and not into your compressor housing.
HURRY UP and get this b#*ch ripping.
I don't think it'd be too much. The only reason I was asking is that the larger the nozzle, generally speaking of course, the worse the atomization. Now this is minimized using pure methanol because of its tendency to vaporize. Why it would matter, potentially, is that you wouldn't want an arrangement where the two streams tended to mix, causing larger droplets to form that couldn't mix with your intake charge that well.
Re: AIT
That's a great place for it, I can't think of a better one. I was thinking initially of recommending putting one nozzle on each side of the throttle body for each set of butterflies, but then you wouldn't be reading your AITs correctly.
All that being said, I think that an arrangement similar to what you proposed is about as good as it gets. Just make sure that it isn't activated until you have at least a little bit of boost to be sure that it gets blown down into your engine and not into your compressor housing.
HURRY UP and get this b#*ch ripping.
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10-01-08, 07:36 AM
#8
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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"What leading plugs are you going to switch to?"
since they don't offer the 6725 in less than 10.5 i am going to try some B*EGVs. i bought some 9s, 9.5s and 10s.
my tuner/guy (Luke at Beyond Redline-Green Bay) and i discussed plugs yesterday. it appears that i am running too little timing for my alcohol. he said that moving the timing as much as 5 degrees (which we would only do in steps) wouldn't change my color that much... that i need a different heat range to get it done.
that said, i spoke w Jose LeDuc yesterday and he said that i was running way (11 degrees) too much split and i would probably settle around 6 degrees. i had been running the split to cover a potential 10 degree lead timing retard from my J&S. i will probably disable the retard feature on the J&S and work the split.
hc
since they don't offer the 6725 in less than 10.5 i am going to try some B*EGVs. i bought some 9s, 9.5s and 10s.
my tuner/guy (Luke at Beyond Redline-Green Bay) and i discussed plugs yesterday. it appears that i am running too little timing for my alcohol. he said that moving the timing as much as 5 degrees (which we would only do in steps) wouldn't change my color that much... that i need a different heat range to get it done.
that said, i spoke w Jose LeDuc yesterday and he said that i was running way (11 degrees) too much split and i would probably settle around 6 degrees. i had been running the split to cover a potential 10 degree lead timing retard from my J&S. i will probably disable the retard feature on the J&S and work the split.
hc
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