H2O2 Peroxide
02-22-07, 06:09 AM
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H2O2 Peroxide
Hokay- so i've been reading. (be amazed!) This was sparked by some mention of it on some supra forums i was haunting. Anywho- Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 is an unstable molecule that deteriorates under many conditions (bacteria, heat, light, catalyst) into H2O and O1. Heat? We make plenty of that!
If we could get the H2O2 to fracture under high heat which we have into H2O and O1...?
So of course the next question is where can i get a reasonable concentration (not 2-3%) H2O2?
EDIT: From H2O2.com "Specializing in Hydrogen Peroxide for Environmental and Industrial Applications"
Incineration - Provides supplemental oxygen to improve combustion efficiencies and lower operating temperatures.
Heat of vaporization & thermal conductivity (by concentration)
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
H2O2 can be used either as a monopropellant (not mixed with fuel) or as the oxidizer component of a bipropellant rocket. Use as a monopropellant takes advantage of the decomposition of 70–98+% concentration hydrogen peroxide into steam and oxygen. The propellant is pumped into a reaction chamber where a catalyst (usually a silver or platinum screen) triggers decomposition, and the hot (>600 °C) oxygen/steam produced is used directly for thrust. H2O2 monopropellant produces a maximum specific impulse (Isp) of 161 s (1.6 kN·s/kg), which makes it a low-performance monopropellant. Compared to hydrazine, peroxide is less toxic, but it is also much less powerful. The famous Bell Rocket Belt used hydrogen peroxide monopropellant.
As a bipropellant, H2O2 is decomposed to burn a fuel as an oxidizer. Specific impulses as high as 350 s (3.5 kN·s/kg) can be achieved, depending on the fuel. Peroxide used as an oxidizer gives a somewhat lower Isp than liquid oxygen, but is dense, storable, noncryogenic and can be more easily used to drive gas turbines to give high pressures. It also can be used for regenerative cooling of rocket engines. Peroxide was used very successfully as an oxidizer for early World-War-II era German rockets, and for the low-cost British launchers, Black Knight and Black Arrow.
As a bipropellant, H2O2 is decomposed to burn a fuel as an oxidizer. Specific impulses as high as 350 s (3.5 kN·s/kg) can be achieved, depending on the fuel. Peroxide used as an oxidizer gives a somewhat lower Isp than liquid oxygen, but is dense, storable, noncryogenic and can be more easily used to drive gas turbines to give high pressures. It also can be used for regenerative cooling of rocket engines. Peroxide was used very successfully as an oxidizer for early World-War-II era German rockets, and for the low-cost British launchers, Black Knight and Black Arrow.
So of course the next question is where can i get a reasonable concentration (not 2-3%) H2O2?
EDIT: From H2O2.com "Specializing in Hydrogen Peroxide for Environmental and Industrial Applications"
Incineration - Provides supplemental oxygen to improve combustion efficiencies and lower operating temperatures.
Heat of vaporization & thermal conductivity (by concentration)
Last edited by NissanConvert; 02-22-07 at 06:17 AM.
02-22-07, 05:09 PM
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from what i understand 30% and higher is where you start running into problems. at or about that concentration it starts becoming caustic & a danger to mucus membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) higher than 70% it becomes a self starting oxidizer. 80% (+) concentration H2O2 + catalyst + kerosene= rocket engine.
I just want something better than plain old water. So 30%. From what i understand (hopefully accurate) it will fracture at approximately 40C ~ 104F.... probably not. so- any chemists wanna help me out?
I just want something better than plain old water. So 30%. From what i understand (hopefully accurate) it will fracture at approximately 40C ~ 104F.... probably not. so- any chemists wanna help me out?
02-23-07, 07:53 AM
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H2O2 is unstable.......if you tune with a fresh solution, i think your lambda will keep going downwards the longer it is in the injection system bottle as it continues to dissociate to water/oxygen...?
02-23-07, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowCar2
H2O2 is unstable.......if you tune with a fresh solution, i think your lambda will keep going downwards the longer it is in the injection system bottle as it continues to dissociate to water/oxygen...?
I'm half tempted to get a small engine and find out if this is even plausible.
I need a garage.
02-23-07, 05:59 PM
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theres a way to decompose h2o2 w/o using heat.....use a catalyst
contact lens cleaners have this platinum based catalyst to aid decomposition. Put this catalyst pieces after the solenoid valve before the nozzle, the evolution of O2 gas will help propel the water, semi decomposed and oxygen into the intake tract.
contact lens cleaners have this platinum based catalyst to aid decomposition. Put this catalyst pieces after the solenoid valve before the nozzle, the evolution of O2 gas will help propel the water, semi decomposed and oxygen into the intake tract.
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02-23-07, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowCar2
theres a way to decompose h2o2 w/o using heat.....use a catalyst
contact lens cleaners have this platinum based catalyst to aid decomposition. Put this catalyst pieces after the solenoid valve before the nozzle, the evolution of O2 gas will help propel the water, semi decomposed and oxygen into the intake tract.
contact lens cleaners have this platinum based catalyst to aid decomposition. Put this catalyst pieces after the solenoid valve before the nozzle, the evolution of O2 gas will help propel the water, semi decomposed and oxygen into the intake tract.
wiki:
The propellant is pumped into a reaction chamber where a catalyst (usually a silver or platinum screen) triggers decomposition, and the hot (>600 °C) oxygen/steam produced is used directly for thrust.
Hydrogen peroxide always decomposes (disproportionates) exothermically into water and oxygen gas spontaneously:
2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2
Hydrogen peroxide always decomposes (disproportionates) exothermically into water and oxygen gas spontaneously:
2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2
02-23-07, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowCar2
wow...didnt know it will go so violent!!
02-23-07, 09:27 PM
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02-24-07, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NissanConvert
Admittedly that is HTP (high test peroxide) usually 70% or higher concentration but i'd like to take every precaution.
02-24-07, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hazw8st
Although H2O2 is a great alternative, methanol injection is a better bet. It is much easier to get your hands on methanol than Peroxide. Look at my username.....
I want to try something different, and this for it's oxidizing properties as well as the water. TBH- i'm not even to the proof of concept stage.
What does your username have to do with anything?
02-24-07, 08:06 AM
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I race those little nitro powdered cars and in the roar rule book we are not allowed to add hydrogen peroxide to the fuel. What effects does it produce on a rotary, was thinking of trying it in my nitro car but dont want to blow up a $200 engine lol
02-24-07, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by turbo10th
I race those little nitro powdered cars and in the roar rule book we are not allowed to add hydrogen peroxide to the fuel. What effects does it produce on a rotary, was thinking of trying it in my nitro car but dont want to blow up a $200 engine lol
wiki:
The rate of decomposition is dependent on the temperature and concentration of the peroxide, as well as the pH and the presence of impurities and stabilizers.
[QUOTE]The liberation of oxygen and energy in the decomposition has dangerous side effects. Spilling high concentration peroxide on a flammable substance can cause an immediate fire, which is further fueled by the oxygen released by the decomposing hydrogen peroxide.[QUOTE]
This is what I want- but under my terms. I'm looking at buying a small 4 cycle engine to thrash somewhere along the line.
02-24-07, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by turbo10th
I race those little nitro powdered cars and in the roar rule book we are not allowed to add hydrogen peroxide to the fuel.
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