Going to make my own WI kit
05-20-09, 02:18 AM
#76
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Another update, I'm now running a greddy 4 bar map sensor that uses the stock connector found here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/greddy-4-bar-map-sensor-stock-connector-838957/
I'm running dual stock fuel pumps to keep my fuel supply up for the higher boost pressure I'm running found here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/my-dual-stock-fuel-pump-setup-839645/
I added a cold air setup for the turbo using 4" aluminum drier ducting, I relocated my air atomizing from the filter to the first turn in the cold intake coming from the turbo.
I'm boosting 20 psi currently, with high 10's to 11.0 afr's, lead timing around 7 and 500 cc/min of water. knock is under 30 at all times under boost, usually closer to 20. I'll probably increase the boost a few more psi. That's all for now!
I'm running dual stock fuel pumps to keep my fuel supply up for the higher boost pressure I'm running found here: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/my-dual-stock-fuel-pump-setup-839645/
I added a cold air setup for the turbo using 4" aluminum drier ducting, I relocated my air atomizing from the filter to the first turn in the cold intake coming from the turbo.
I'm boosting 20 psi currently, with high 10's to 11.0 afr's, lead timing around 7 and 500 cc/min of water. knock is under 30 at all times under boost, usually closer to 20. I'll probably increase the boost a few more psi. That's all for now!
05-20-09, 06:47 AM
#78
05-20-09, 11:12 AM
#79
I'm running greddy race plug 10's all around. I haven't looked at the plugs, but i'm not getting any misfire. The b9egv's that i ran up to 15 psi were too hot and didn't last long. The 10's should be good based on what others have been running. The greddy plugs really improved the way the car runs. And at 116 a set they better.
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Total cost for the water injection is under $150. The bigger tank will run somewhere between 20 and 30, I'm waiting to do my battery relocation and will put the tank somewhere around where the battery is now. I also plan to make my intercooler pipe come straight out rather then the 2 turns it has now. I'll have to see how it all works out.
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The 4 bar map sensor I already had from a boost controller that stopped working, but costs around $120 new, the dual pumps cost under $50 dollars to do. Course these things have nothing to do with the water injection just with the higher boost.
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I will also add that i raised the turn on point from 3 or so psi to around 8 and its going through much less water.
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Total cost for the water injection is under $150. The bigger tank will run somewhere between 20 and 30, I'm waiting to do my battery relocation and will put the tank somewhere around where the battery is now. I also plan to make my intercooler pipe come straight out rather then the 2 turns it has now. I'll have to see how it all works out.
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The 4 bar map sensor I already had from a boost controller that stopped working, but costs around $120 new, the dual pumps cost under $50 dollars to do. Course these things have nothing to do with the water injection just with the higher boost.
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I will also add that i raised the turn on point from 3 or so psi to around 8 and its going through much less water.
06-14-09, 11:33 PM
#82
I really like this setup but the only thing that i would want is my tank in my trunk area. I wonder how long it would take for the tank to get full pressure with a line running that far. I wonder how much pressure drop would occur and if it would hold a somewhat constant pressure
06-15-09, 01:06 AM
#83
I wouldn't think the pressure drop would be enough to worry about. You could always test it by putting a gauge on it. I had a 5psi pressure drop when I had the T right on the tank, which I changed around to get more flow. A drop in pressure from 20 to 15psi on a system that flows 500cc @ 20 psi would flow 375cc @ 15psi. I could have drilled the nozzle out more to make up for it, but then it wouldn't atomize as well.
The diameter of the lines aren't very big so the response even mounted in the trunk should be enough. Obviously It would be more delayed then having the lines close, but it should still get the job done. The water will start flowing as soon as the pressure reaches the tank so it's a good idea to have the water solenoid close to the nozzle this will minimize any dribbles and optimize response on that end.
The diameter of the lines aren't very big so the response even mounted in the trunk should be enough. Obviously It would be more delayed then having the lines close, but it should still get the job done. The water will start flowing as soon as the pressure reaches the tank so it's a good idea to have the water solenoid close to the nozzle this will minimize any dribbles and optimize response on that end.
06-15-09, 01:07 AM
#84
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I really like this setup but the only thing that i would want is my tank in my trunk area. I wonder how long it would take for the tank to get full pressure with a line running that far. I wonder how much pressure drop would occur and if it would hold a somewhat constant pressure
Would allow you to keep a very small tank up front, meaning less air in the "system". You could even have it set like that so that your front tank is always above 60% (just an example) thus again, keeping less out out of the system needing to be pressurized.
06-16-09, 10:26 PM
#85
What size pre-turbo should be used? The kit I bought came with one 500 cc/min injector. I have 99 spec twins up to 17psi on pump and 17+ on Q16. My main goal is cooling the intake charge and add an additional safety net to my setup. I'm thinking of doing dual injectors (1) pre-turbo and (1) pre-throttle body. Maybe 50cc/min pre-turbo and stepping down from the 500cc/min to a 380cc/min for the pre-throttlebody. What do you think?
06-16-09, 11:01 PM
#86
50 cc is tiny. I would use at least 200cc up front but It depends on your power goals.
You're planning to run 50/50 correct? Or are you going to run 50/50 on one and then water on the preturbo? Also what size pump do you have 150 psi 250psi? Are you planning to switch to mechanical setup like mine?
You have to have good atomization for it to be safe on the compressor blades. All this will factor in on what size you run. Personally I'm running straight water at 500cc preturbo and have no knock on 20 psi with pump fuel. I have a small intercooler and charge temps stay down. If I were running 50/50 I would probably run about 700cc total for a similar setup. But if your ignition system is stock it might be too much for it.
I read somewhere that a 50/50 mix reduces knock even more then water alone, but scientifically it doesn't make sensor to me because water absorbs much more heat then alcohol. I like the simplicity of water alone, I don't have to change my tune and if it fails for any reason the fuel level stays consistent which buys more time. It's free and it works. Alcohol would allow the mixture to burn easier on an ignition system that's crappy this means more of it could be run, it also cools the intake charge more.
You're planning to run 50/50 correct? Or are you going to run 50/50 on one and then water on the preturbo? Also what size pump do you have 150 psi 250psi? Are you planning to switch to mechanical setup like mine?
You have to have good atomization for it to be safe on the compressor blades. All this will factor in on what size you run. Personally I'm running straight water at 500cc preturbo and have no knock on 20 psi with pump fuel. I have a small intercooler and charge temps stay down. If I were running 50/50 I would probably run about 700cc total for a similar setup. But if your ignition system is stock it might be too much for it.
I read somewhere that a 50/50 mix reduces knock even more then water alone, but scientifically it doesn't make sensor to me because water absorbs much more heat then alcohol. I like the simplicity of water alone, I don't have to change my tune and if it fails for any reason the fuel level stays consistent which buys more time. It's free and it works. Alcohol would allow the mixture to burn easier on an ignition system that's crappy this means more of it could be run, it also cools the intake charge more.
06-18-09, 04:02 PM
#87
50/50 both nozzles, 150 psi pump, stock ignition with all 9's, HKS twinpower, medium size SMIC... car dyno'd 382 whp/350 ftq on q16 spiking at 21 psi with AIT 60c+. My ultimate goal is 400, but would like any aditional safety net that won't hinder the current performance. I thought I could maybe squeeze that extra 18 with a cooler intake charge, but maybe I'm way off on that thinking...
06-18-09, 09:16 PM
#88
Is there a reason you want a tank in the rear? If it is so you can hold more water, just have two tanks, on in the front and one in there rear with a check valve between them. When your front tank gets low, press a button, or flip a switch turning a small pump, something cheap and small like a windshield sparyer pump would even work, and refill the front. You could even have it automated, when a low level indicator light turns on, it flips a relay that turns the pump on for a set time. Just keep your 5 gallon water tank full in the back and never have to put fluid in the front again. Just an idea. Would allow you to keep a very small tank up front, meaning less air in the "system". You could even have it set like that so that your front tank is always above 60% (just an example) thus again, keeping less out out of the system needing to be pressurized.
Would allow you to keep a very small tank up front, meaning less air in the "system". You could even have it set like that so that your front tank is always above 60% (just an example) thus again, keeping less out out of the system needing to be pressurized.
06-19-09, 07:41 AM
#89
50/50 both nozzles, 150 psi pump, stock ignition with all 9's, HKS twinpower, medium size SMIC... car dyno'd 382 whp/350 ftq on q16 spiking at 21 psi with AIT 60c+. My ultimate goal is 400, but would like any aditional safety net that won't hinder the current performance. I thought I could maybe squeeze that extra 18 with a cooler intake charge, but maybe I'm way off on that thinking...
You could make the extra power with a cooler intake charge, you would have to lower it between 40 and 50*F. Preturbo injection is supposed to have the effect of shifting the compressor map, so the turbo size is effectively increased which would help you out as well. I don't have any experience with pump type AI systems, but as long as it atomizes thoroughly it won't damage the compressor blades I think a 200cc nozzle would be safe with a 150psi nozzle, and just keep the 500 cc. Personally if it was my setup I would go with all mechanical pumpless injection and run one 700 cc nozzle preturbo for 50/50 mix. Water alone would decrease the intake temps as well, especially if you're close to maxing out the turbo.
06-19-09, 11:03 AM
#91
You will either need 2 preturbo nozzles or an air box with the nozzle mounted so that both turbo's can draw in the water. If they are sequential then the air box would be better. I would like to see someone run twins with a preturbo setup, i think it would work well.
06-19-09, 07:13 PM
#93
If you wanted to run something like that without the post nozzle, then I would run larger injectors. Especially with 50/50.
For water alone I would run 2 200 cc nozzles. For 50/50 I would run 2 300 cc nozzles. If you kept the large post nozzle I would run 2 100 cc nozzles.
And yes make the secondary nozzle come on when the turbo comes on. You wouldn't want to spray into a turbo that doesn't have any airflow.
A single nozzle located in an air box would work too cause then each turbo would draw water in as airflow is increased.
For water alone I would run 2 200 cc nozzles. For 50/50 I would run 2 300 cc nozzles. If you kept the large post nozzle I would run 2 100 cc nozzles.
And yes make the secondary nozzle come on when the turbo comes on. You wouldn't want to spray into a turbo that doesn't have any airflow.
A single nozzle located in an air box would work too cause then each turbo would draw water in as airflow is increased.
06-20-09, 12:56 AM
#95
Na the air pushes it on through. I run 500 cc through mine. Another guy on here runs over 1000 cc straight water preturbo. The only issues you might have is if your ignition system is weak the added water can make it harder to burn. The alcohol will help this though. I'm not experienced with 50/50 you might be able to get by with less, you can always experiment a little bit. I wouldn't go less then 2 200cc nozzles though, anything between 400-700 cc total should work well.
I would just forget the post nozzle and go complete preturbo. I think the results will be much better going from this location.
I would just forget the post nozzle and go complete preturbo. I think the results will be much better going from this location.
10-01-09, 05:00 PM
#99
What's your turbo rated at lbs/min? I'm thinking of building a kit like yours over the winter so I'm trying to decide if I should drill the hole larger or run two of the 380cc nozzles. I know that CFM won't equate to the size injector you want to run but I just want to get a rough idea...
10-03-09, 08:58 PM
#100
My turbo flows a max of around 79 lbs/min. I'm not sure how much It's flowing at 23 psi. Unless you're running 2 turbos I would stick with one nozzle and size it accordingly. It's simpler and makes testing the system easier. Plus adding more nozzles would reduce the pressure at each nozzle. Another option is to go with a nozzle thats even larger then needed, and add some kind of valve to adjust the water flow.
Here's the diagram I posted in another thread as a small update.
Here's the diagram I posted in another thread as a small update.