Alternative Fuels Discussion and Tech on using alternatives such as E85 or Hydrogen or other fuels and/or supplements to Gasoline in Rotary Engines

What about e85 and ethanol

Old 05-24-08, 10:25 PM
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What about e85 and ethanol

Ok im in houston and we have 10-15% in the gas any ways how harmful is that to a rotary? How awful would it be to swap it over, or the ability to swap over to e85.
I know about the btu ect ect. What is involved. or should i stick to paying $4.25 for 93
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Old 05-25-08, 12:43 AM
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we know nothing about your car. tell us this first, then we can help.
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Old 05-25-08, 01:14 AM
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Put regular in it.
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Old 05-25-08, 02:15 AM
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yeah just use regular and you won't be saving money if you switch over to e85 so there is no point in converting your car unless your doing it for the earth
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Old 05-25-08, 02:35 AM
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these cars are tuned to run on standard unleaded, you gain nothing from 93
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Old 05-25-08, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by turboIIrotary View Post
yeah just use regular and you won't be saving money if you switch over to e85 so there is no point in converting your car unless your doing it for the earth
IMO Ethanol is not helping the earth at all. In many cars E10 will cause you to use more gas over the course of a year because of reduced fuel economy than if you used 100% gas.

Corn based Ethanol is causing increased food costs and the amount of energy to make Ethanol from corn is about the same or more than the energy it creates when burned.

The only reason it is viable is because of subsadies. Eliminate those and then see if Ethanol is still used.

Unless you have a Turbo, run 87 octane.
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Old 05-25-08, 06:10 PM
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Gas has a greater energy density then ethanol, therefore you must use more ethanol to get the same energy output.

Our cars weren't setup for E85, so the minimum parts needed to convert are:
Replace all rubber lines with neoprene - alcohol corrodes rubber
Replace fuel pump with pump compatible with alcohol - alcohol is conductive so the fuel pump can't be cooled by the fuel
Fuel Filter compatible with alcohol
Programmable fuel computer + possibly larger injectors - E85's stoichiometric ratio is 9.7:1, whereas gasoline is 14.7:1
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Old 05-25-08, 06:18 PM
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I don't know about driving up the cost of corn... I just bought 5 ears of sweet corn for a buck at walmart. REALLY GOOD CORN.

On another note, doesn't increasing the etho-content of the gas allow the ability to increase the boost? or is that an old-wives tale?
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Old 05-25-08, 07:39 PM
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Ethanol in gas is more of a filler than anything when its only 10%.

When I was in europe, they did a demonstration on the same engine with a direct comparison of high octane gas to E100 (100% Ethanol) and there was about a 200HP difference in power - this of course being a higher end engine.

The speaker said it wasnt an entirely viable source of fuel because of the cost, which is significantly more than Gas. World Hunger is also a huge factor.
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Old 05-25-08, 09:38 PM
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It is possible to buy it straight from a enthanol producing plant. A few years ago I was able to get a deal on it. A bit over $60 a barrel but that was just because I buddy of mine was helping close down a plant that was using it and could get me 1000 gal of the stuff if I wanted it.. But it may be possible to get straight ethanol for cheap if you buy in bulk and know where to look. Haven't checked the prices lately though.
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Old 05-25-08, 10:18 PM
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You only see an ethanol advantage in your standard motor because it has a higher knock resistance. You can run all the way up to 19:1 compression with it because its something like 160 octane like most grain alcohols.
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Old 05-26-08, 12:07 AM
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ok i can run 87 see i keep hearing this but it doesn't make sense don't i want 93 for detonation resistance ?

oh my car is a 87 non turbo forgot to mention that b4 >.< i just saw that down the street thiere was a diffrence of almost a dollar in the e85 and the 93 so i was curious
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Old 05-26-08, 12:17 AM
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The N/A rotary engine is not prone to early detonation like the turbo is. If you are running an N/A use 87 octane. Thats what it was designed to run on. Running Ethanol in an N/A is fairly useless but in turbo applications it has its advantages. Plus if you know a place to get it cheap and tune it right you can get Ok gas millage out of it (still not as good as running regular pump gas).
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Old 05-26-08, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by psa1sonic View Post
ok i can run 87 see i keep hearing this but it doesn't make sense don't i want 93 for detonation resistance ?
You are exactly right. However, 93 octane only offers detonation resistance for the extra price. Never mind that your engine has absolutely no use for detonation resistance, the owner's manual specifies 87 octane, the FTC says high octane fuel is a scam, and tens of thousands of cars just like yours have driven just fine for over 20 years without detonating, the point is to protect your investment no matter what the cost, right?

Well, what about viral resistance and earthquake resistance? That's right, your high octane fuel can't protect against these nasty conditions! Have you heard about the thousands of deaths from the AIDS and Ebola viruses? How about all those people in China who just died because of earthquakes? Don't let your car be a victim! Fortunately, I am the forum's largest vendor for Evil Aviation fuel with RTFM. Our chemists have developed the RTFM additive to not only keep your engine safe from the AIDS, Ebola, and many other killer viruses, but it also stabilizes the fuel so that the hydrogen atoms do not fall off of the carbon atoms during an earthquake!

I offer my Evil Aviation high octane fuel with RTFM to RX-7 owners at the low price of $20/gallon in bulk 55-gal drums, or $24/gallon in economy-sized 5-gallon containers. Remember, the point is to "protect" your engine no matter what the cost, so buy it now before your engine gets damaged by those inferior fuels!
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Old 05-26-08, 01:50 AM
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lol.
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Old 05-26-08, 02:01 AM
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shameless aviator.
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Old 05-26-08, 02:16 AM
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Oh i defs need that in my car right now.. i mean the midwest.. think of all the things that could happen.. hurricanes.. tsunami's.. alien robots..

I'll take a couple gallons.
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Old 05-26-08, 03:37 AM
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I am the forum's largest vendor for Evil Aviation fuel with RTFM

Gotta love that Evil Aviator!

From past readings about octane and ethanol:
Use regular gas and stay away from ethanol.
Knock was more of a issue than pre-detonation using higher octane gas.
I'm using regular 87 octane and mix one ounce of two stroke oil per gallon of gas.
My stock oil pump still works (maybe, never tested it)
and the machine runs happy.

Thanks troops and verterns.

Happy Memorial Day
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Old 05-26-08, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedsterama View Post
Knock was more of a issue than pre-detonation using higher octane gas.

Knock and Pre-ignition are the same thing.
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Old 05-26-08, 10:55 AM
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Lots of guys who run conventional motors run lead which also lubricates the cylinders I wonder what effect it would have on a rx7?
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Old 05-26-08, 11:43 AM
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^, I thought that was just really old cars. I mean, older than our cars anyways.
My dad's 240 Z needed a lead additive to lubricate the valves. The lead used to be provided by gasoline back in the 70's, then they switched to unleaded gasoline, requiring an additive.
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Old 05-26-08, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator View Post
You are exactly right. However, 93 octane only offers detonation resistance for the extra price. Never mind that your engine has absolutely no use for detonation resistance, the owner's manual specifies 87 octane, the FTC says high octane fuel is a scam, and tens of thousands of cars just like yours have driven just fine for over 20 years without detonating, the point is to protect your investment no matter what the cost, right?

Well, what about viral resistance and earthquake resistance? That's right, your high octane fuel can't protect against these nasty conditions! Have you heard about the thousands of deaths from the AIDS and Ebola viruses? How about all those people in China who just died because of earthquakes? Don't let your car be a victim! Fortunately, I am the forum's largest vendor for Evil Aviation fuel with RTFM. Our chemists have developed the RTFM additive to not only keep your engine safe from the AIDS, Ebola, and many other killer viruses, but it also stabilizes the fuel so that the hydrogen atoms do not fall off of the carbon atoms during an earthquake!

I offer my Evil Aviation high octane fuel with RTFM to RX-7 owners at the low price of $20/gallon in bulk 55-gal drums, or $24/gallon in economy-sized 5-gallon containers. Remember, the point is to "protect" your engine no matter what the cost, so buy it now before your engine gets damaged by those inferior fuels!
ok i like u can i lick you?
hehe yes i know the rtfm says i have read it it is gosple but i just keep reading prone to detonation prone to detonation i figured ok maby i should put higher quality fuel in
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Old 05-27-08, 07:10 AM
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Look in the single turbo forum, there are guys making serious power on E85. But they are running at LEAST 4 1680cc injectors...
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Old 06-12-08, 07:23 PM
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So wait, running E85 on N/A engines is useless? Like I'm curious. I've seen something on TV like 3 weeks ago where two SAABs were racing. One using Ethanol and the other using normal gas. I mean yeah it was a piston car, but there is no real conversion to be done? I also saw something called the "Hydrostar" if any of you have heard of it. How would that work in the car?
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Old 06-13-08, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by |2UNkazeFC View Post
So wait, running E85 on N/A engines is useless? Like I'm curious. I've seen something on TV like 3 weeks ago where two Saab's were racing. One using Ethanol and the other using normal gas. I mean yeah it was a piston car, but there is no real conversion to be done? I also saw something called the "Hydro-star" if any of you have heard of it. How would that work in the car?
^
There are modifications of the current fuel and ignition system required.
Alcohol destroys rubber, for example. So the entire fuel system would need new lines. And since the rate at which gasoline and alcohol explode are different you would need to change the spark timing. Maybe not, I don't truly know.
Any further information could be found on google or something; specifics, etc.


I personally think its pointless, but thats just because I don't believe that ethanol is going to fuel our future
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