radkins

What kind of oil are you guys using with E85?

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

I am using BeNol at ~1.25oz/gallon. I was using ~1.5oz/gallon when I pulled the motor apart to replace the coolant seals. Everything was very nicely coated with castor, so after putting the motor back together I backed the premix down. Also at 1.5oz I was also getting light smoke and heavy castor smell. I still get a little smoke but it is noticeably less.

My method is to guess how much fuel I will be putting in, do the math, add the oil to the tank before the fuel and if I am within about .5 gallon I don't worry about it, if I go over I'll add the appropriate amount. I also go a little strong on the oil just to be on the safe side.

Viper GTSR

Does one HAVE TO use an oil additive when running E85? Many of my friends running it in their supra's just run it straight out of the pump with nothing added. Many-many times with no problems... Is it different for rotories?

Lasse wankel

The 2 E85 turbo engines i have dynoe'd use Motul RC fully synthethic pre mix oil. Gusfd3s engine has done over 1000 km and 3 dyno runs so we will see what condition it will be in, later this Autumn.

/Lasse

enzo250

I run Maxima Castor 927

http://www.maximausa.com/products/2stroke/castor927.asp

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Only if you're not using your factory metering oil pump anymore. In which case if you're not, you'll need to premix regardless of whether or not you're using E85 or striaght dino bones.

With the MOP disabled or removed there's nothing to lubricate the apex seals against the housings, so we add it in with the fuel to provide the lubrication. Many say that the MOP isn't the best form of lube anyways since it is using engine oil to do the job, and given where its injecting, it needs to be burnt off. Premix being designed to be burnt is supposedly more effective.

I have no comment on which method is "best" but just informing you on the why's

BlowenByTwins

iTrader: (6)

E85 burns dryer than petrol (regular gas), so the premix will add that level of lubrication back into the fuel so the seals don't dry out

Rocking Rotary

iTrader: (14)

I know Red Line makes a Alcohol Fuel Lubricant. Should that be used with E85 or would regular 2cycle premix still work mixed a little richer?

zinx

iTrader: (3)

Something to also note, the OMP is designed to mix in the correct amount for gas. Since ethanol require much more fuel, it would make sense that you need more oil as well. I wouldn't rely on the OMP if you are running E85. Pre-mixing is simple and easy.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

So does this have to be an alky specific premix?

Where do you get your locally? What brands are there?

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

Yes you need to get premix that is compatible with alcohol fuels, the 2 stroke stuff at the gas station won't cut it. I have been ordering mine from Klotz lubricants, but if the racing castor oils that you get at the motorcycle shop will do just fine.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Would one ounce per gallon be too little?

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

cool, I'll see if local dirt bike/etc shops have castor versions close to me

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

I don't know. I get the feeling that there should be more than what would normally go into gasoline, but not as much as a 100% alcohol mix. I don't have much experience with this stuff yet so I'll play it safe until time tells me different.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

it makes sense in my head but I would think that you could reduce the mix a little.

You need X amount of premix in the chamber to lubricate.
E85 is injecting X amount of fuel which is generally 30% more than gas.

So, if you used gas premix numbers(1 ounce per gallon) but with e85. You would be injecting 130% needed to lube the chamber. I would think you'd be able to scale the premix down atleast 20% and possibly still be safe.

as a very brief example.
Gasoline ==Chamber needs 70 parts gas and 30 parts 2 stroke to lube and combust.

E85 == Chamber needs 91 parts fuel to 21 parts 2 stroke.
Because the E85 requires more fuel, your going to get the same amount of lube even though your at a lower mix level.

All in my head though. Could be totally off since I don't know how well the premix will work against the washing effects of alky.

prove me wrong if I'm just a rambling idiot.

zinx

iTrader: (3)

that does make sense, i was just thinking a bit differently and i think this is mostly uncharted water so we're just brainstorming here.

Does a motor require x amount of oil or does a motor require a certain ration of fuel:oil?

I am thinking that because ethanol is "dryer" than gas, it would need more premix. It needs premix for non-rotary motors so i would think rotary would needs quite a bit more. Also, that extra fuel would wash the fuel out more. More oil would burn off than lubricate, so you'd want to mix the same as ratio.

I think the only way to really answer this test is to put some miles on an E85 motor, tear it down and get some results.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

^exactly. It can go either way with just speculation. Until we get some one to break a motor down with each style we won't know.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

well, considering I've nevered pre-mixed my RX7's. Even in my old 603whp FD, I never put oil into the gas and it didn't have the omp either. This went on for what, 6 years? Too lazy I guess.

I wonder what the inside of the motor looked like? It ran it's *** off though

Gohan3rdrift

iTrader: (11)

Where is your old FD?
I was gonna ask that guy about it but I never found the ebay auction....
Does anybody know where it's at now?

I want to be "that guy" to ask those questions.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

well, the guys name was "Clayton" and he lived in moorhead, NC.

not sure what happened or if he sold it since the ebay auction

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

It's all about the lubricity of the fuel/oil mixture, not the quantity of oil being injected into the motor. The stock OMP delivered a certain amount of oil for gasoline being ingested, that is why there is a larger delivery at fuel throttle than idle.

Most of the time people running methanol in their piston dragsters will be premixing at about 1/2 oz per gallon (partly for corrosion party for upper cylinder lubrication), I have heard that the norm for a rotary running methanol is on the order of 2oz per gallon (I have no first hand experience so hear say is all I have) So given those two statments and the fact that ethanol, especially E85, is less corrosive than methanol and has a slightly more desirable lubrication quatlities it seams like 1.25-1.5oz range is ideal.

Rocking Rotary

iTrader: (14)

What klotz lub are you running? 2 stroke oil or fuel system lube?

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

I use Uplon for the meth system and Benol for the E85.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

moremazda, you're running E85 and Meth too? you not running a intercooler?

moremazda

iTrader: (4)

^^^Yes. No, I have an intercooler as well. I want this thing to hold together for a very long time (knock on wood, a very big piece of wood)