E85 Fuel System Setup Guidance - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

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E85 Fuel System Setup Guidance

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Old 04-06-18, 04:16 AM
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E85 Fuel System Setup Guidance

Hey Guys,

I am just about to start the configure/install of a complete new fuel system in my FC3S with E85. I have installed a RON91 before enough for 1000hp, but need 30% more, plus trying to use the right hose lines without rusting out lines etc etc.

I will be going x2 Walbro 460L pumps in the hanger, a turbosmart 2000hp -8 AN reg, (this alone good enough supply for 1500hp) and more than likely Bosch 2200cc injectors all round x4

Now here is where I am getting stuck, and really just looking for the A. The best way, and B. The cheapest way without cheaping out on parts.
So my plan was to run x3 -8 AN E85 braided lines to just from the tank to just before the diff, with x2 inline fuel filters, then going into x3 -8 AN Aluminum lines to the front of the car then splitting off, with one line feeding primary injectors, and the second feeding the secondary. Now with the return I was looking at coming of the fuel rails (billet rails) (towards front of the car) and using a -8 AN TEE meeting the feeds to going back to the return reg, with the return just below the fuel pressure reg, was to have a E85 content sensor (not flex) just to monitor.

With my plans above there is so many fittings I need to think about. Fittings going from hardline to braided line, from braided back to hardline and when putting the fittings down on paper it adds up alot FAST!

My second thought was, joining the two feeds INSIDE the tank to a -10 AN fitting from the hanger, into fuel filter, into x1 - 10AN feed, and x1 -8 AN return, so that would be x2 hardlines to the front, then using 1 single -10 AN splitter into x2 -8 AN into braided lines, then doing the return the same. I guess the typing this I think I already know the answer too.. But just wanted to get some inside to what others are running out there, and how they have setup their fuel system. I know a few guys are running more than 4 silly injectors, but would like to see guys running x4 - but still would like your opinion and experience to what has worked and what hasn't.

Below is how my old system was setup... (i didn't build it like this) was in the car when i brought it.. But would this work still???? Cheers...


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Old 04-12-18, 06:03 PM
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This setup and goals are ridiculous for a Rotary Engine. You're not even in the ballpark if those power figures are your goals.

What's the usage of the vehicle? If it's ONLY for 1/4mi passes, that's something else (we can run hot and hard with incredibly high fuel pressure).


What Will Flow 1000whp on a Rotary w/ e85:
  • 2x Injector Dynamics ID1700x Primary Injectors
  • 2x 650lb/hr Billet Atomizer Injectors
  • Weldon A2047 Fuel Pressure Regulator
  • Weldon 34706 Mechanical Fuel Pump
  • @90psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 2505cc/min from IDs and 2x 6825cc/min from Atomizers = 18660cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
  • @60psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 2040cc/min from IDs and 2x 4725cc/min from Atomizers = 13530cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
  • @43.5psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 1725cc/min from IDs and 2x 2888cc/min from Atomizers = 9226cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
So simply put, you can run 43.5psi to 60psi on the street without fuel overheating issues. An inline cooler would be a SMART decision for anything e85.
IF you are only drag racing, run the base pressure higher and get more out of everything.

1000whp on e85 with a Rotary Engine. Bring a firehose...
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Old 04-14-18, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
This setup and goals are ridiculous for a Rotary Engine. You're not even in the ballpark if those power figures are your goals.

What's the usage of the vehicle? If it's ONLY for 1/4mi passes, that's something else (we can run hot and hard with incredibly high fuel pressure).


What Will Flow 1000whp on a Rotary w/ e85:
  • 2x Injector Dynamics ID1700x Primary Injectors
  • 2x 650lb/hr Billet Atomizer Injectors
  • Weldon A2047 Fuel Pressure Regulator
  • Weldon 34706 Mechanical Fuel Pump
  • @90psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 2505cc/min from IDs and 2x 6825cc/min from Atomizers = 18660cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
  • @60psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 2040cc/min from IDs and 2x 4725cc/min from Atomizers = 13530cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
  • @43.5psi Nominal Pressure you're left with 2x 1725cc/min from IDs and 2x 2888cc/min from Atomizers = 9226cc/min @ 100% DC on all 4 injectors.
So simply put, you can run 43.5psi to 60psi on the street without fuel overheating issues. An inline cooler would be a SMART decision for anything e85.
IF you are only drag racing, run the base pressure higher and get more out of everything.

1000whp on e85 with a Rotary Engine. Bring a firehose...

This is interesting. When you say not even in the ball park, do you mean it's way too much?

It's really interesting as my old setup for pump fuel was what you mentioned above... (more or less).

It is a street setup, but will be used for a single lap attack and what you guys call it (Autocross), and drag. More or less a all round car.

I don't want to run anymore than max 80% DC at any one time... inline fuel cooler?? :S
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Old 04-14-18, 08:53 PM
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Your previous setup is a pipette vs. the necessary fire hose. It's incredibly undersized.

There's absolutely no way you were near 1000whp in a STREET car application with what you mentioned. That would work just fine on a twin turbo charged v8, but not a Rotary Engine with half the injection time, tiny displacement, and higher BSFC. Throw e85 in the mix and your setup is good for about 550whp on 4x Bosch EV14 2200cc injectors at moderately high pressures (60+psi) until they corrode and fail. They're not built for e85.
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Old 04-15-18, 09:59 AM
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SIEMENS 2433CC Injectors it is then?
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Old 04-15-18, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by YLD 78U View Post
SIEMENS 2433CC Injectors it is then?
No. Did you not read anything I wrote? That won't work very well
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Old 04-15-18, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot View Post
No. Did you not read anything I wrote? That won't work very well
Sorry mate, you have me a little lost. Are you saying there isn't enough fuel pump?

There is plenty of 13bt here in AUS running 600hp on this type of setup...
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Old 04-15-18, 06:25 PM
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Wait I think I understand kinda.
So for 1000hp fuel system you need 18660cc/min of injectors? (total) x4 2200cc injectors @5 bar 73psi, will flow total of 11460cc ? right track? So 7200cc too short to fill that gap?

Just never heard of those other brands before..

well as for the Bosch 2200, they are E85 compatible.

Bosch Fuel Injector 2200cc Short Length (CNG)

Specifications:
  • Nominal Flow Rate: 2200cc / min @ 300 kpa / 3 Bar
  • Nominal Flow Rate: 2550cc / min @ 400 kpa / 4 Bar
  • Nominal Flow Rate: 2865cc / min @ 500 kpa / 5 Bar
  • Connector: Denso
  • Length: 38mm O-Ring - O-Ring
  • Impedance: 9.1 Ohms
  • Compatible Fuels: CNG, Petrol, Alcohol, Methanol, E85
  • Unacceptable Fuels: LPG Gas, Petrol containing MTBE, specifically VP Q16 and VP Import or other MTBE oxygenated fuels
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Old 04-16-18, 10:38 PM
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Compatible, yes, but they will degrade within 5-10yrs unlike the motorsports grade ID1700x with custom internals designed for alcohol fuels.

Yea, I'm saying there's no possible way your fuel system is capable of 1000whp on a Rotary Engine. Billet Atomizers are drag racing injectors. They work well.
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