Railgun

For ease of installation, I left it as is as I didn't want to rewire the whole thing at the time. There's no reason it needs to be taken out. In time I will.

Glass man, I'm pushing 90s.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Looked as good as new. Replaced them anyway.
My wideband sensor took a dump tho. E85 must be hard on them?

Railgun

How old was the sensor?

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I guess it's about 4 or 5 years old.

d0 Luck

Ran E85 with no E85 conversion on my MR2 Spyder with a tuned PFC (for 91 octane) with a 2ZZ swap. Definitely a noticeable difference.

Most of the bulk of the conversion really is just swapping rubber fuel lines with SS lines.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondering why more rotary owners don't convert to E85.
It is the perfect fuel for our cars.
Combine it with the newer apex seals and a knock box and a good ECU, and you will have a rock solid rotary that is almost 100% detonation proof.
I am VERY impressed with it.

Railgun

Availability for one and there is a pretty decent cost to get the fuel system up to snuff.

Fortunately, most of my fuel system was already done. I just changed my pump setup and my rails. But, Chicagoland still doesn't have it very wide spread. And even companies that do offer it don't at all their locations, which can be quite frustrating at times.

Now that I'm over here in the UK, it's even less available, if not completely unavailable. There seems to be no cost benefit either.

bewtew

iTrader: (7)

i can't wait to tune my car on e85.. I've heard nothing but good stories!

just startn

iTrader: (33)

-You have to plan your trips by gas stations.
-There has been many horror threads/stickies (im on 9 other forums) about e85 than i like.
-It uses twice as much gas to go anywere
-If your travling far, you might not make it the next gas station
-Injector sizing may be a issue for some people
-Someone might not want to change all there lines
-You can make alot of HP on 93oct.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Show me one of these horror storys. I belong to several also and have not read one.
I wouldnt use it for a daily driver. Only for racing.
Injector sizing is no issue.
I didnt change my lines?
I can make way more HP on e85 than you can on 93 octane.
You are uneduacted. I can tell by your response.

Ball joint

iTrader: (6)

-The user is giving examples given that it's frequently driven.
-Injector sizing is an issue as you usually have to have larger injectors to accommodate the necessary flow.
-Alcohol is highly corrosive to rubber and many people do have to change their lines when making the switch

Ball joint

iTrader: (6)

Sorry for making two posts but I just wanted to elaborate on something.

Depending on where you live E85 may not necessarily be 85% alcohol. I live in northern Ohio and soon as temperatures get colder the amount of alcohol in E85 is adjusted. Racers that run it where I come from have to frequently test the E85 to make sure that the alcohol levels are correct. Last time it was tested in April it was only 70% alcohol and 30% gasoline. If your car is highly tuned this could cause a problem.

just startn is giving examples given that the car is going to see a fair amount of street driving. His examples are correct and you can make plenty of power on 93octane with auxiliary injection.

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean that you have the right to insult them. If someone is not as knowledgeable as you on a topic then you should point out where their information is incorrect to help educate them. Part of what this forum is all about is to provide access to information on these cars/engines and senseless name calling will never help in educating the community.

just startn

iTrader: (33)

Not going to argue but will state a few things. If you cannot make over 500hp SAFE on OCT. then you should not be in in the drivers seat of anything other than a geo. Saying YOU didnt do this and YOU didnt do that means nothing. Some one else might HAVE to change some things in order to SWITCH over to E85. If you would like to join many other forums to get a little more educated i will gladly give you a handful of links. Your not the only person running E85 ya know.

Theres threads on the EVO forums, Subaru forums, DSM forums, local forums, Z forums.... I dont get how you NEVER heard/read had any bad experience...
http://www.z31performance.com/forum/...hp?f=6&t=22077

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I will post some FACTS here.
E85 is not as coorsive as you are claiming it to be. They haven't used RUBBER in fuel lines for decades and the fuel lines in all rotarys will accomodate it without any ill effects. That is FACT. Many people may change their lines, but they don't have to. That is FACT.
It does change in percentages, but it is very easy to test and adjust fuel accordingly. Some newer ECU's do it on the fly for you.
If you drive a NA or just use your car for a daily driver and are not trying to get the best performance out of it, E85 doesn't make any sense. You do have to increase the amount of fuel and it is an expensive endevour.
I have been around rotarys for years and gone through several engines always pushing them to the edge. With E85, becasue of the it's nature, I can comfortably give it as much boost as the injectors will handle and be assured it won't detonate.
FACT is, E85 does make more power than gas. I have read several accounts on this very forum of people doing nothing else than running E85 and gaining astonishing amounts of HP. If you can make 500 HP on gas, you can make 600 on E85 and be much safer in doing so. That my friend is FACT.
FACT is, for every horror story you can come up with on E85, I can produce 100 success storys.
I am not here telling everybody about the benefits of E85 to hurt them! I am telling them because I have realized the results and I want to spread the knowledge! I actually want to help!
Auxilary injection gives you protection, but also adds another point of failure. Been there done that.
I hope I didn't hurt anybodys feelers with this post?

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Sorry for making 2 posts, but I want to figure something out.
Seems like everytime I try posting the benefits of E85, people come out of the woodwork, treating it like it's the anti-christ or something?
Usually by people that have had zero experience with it and are just stating some propoganda that they have read on the internet. Kind of a weird phenomenom.
Conversly, the people who have used it and realize it's benefits, don't say anything!
Reminds me of the Republicans vs. the Democrats.

just startn

iTrader: (33)

you always get bent out of shape and try to prove "facts" and basically put down anyone thats not running it b/c you think its magic juice. I personally know at very least 30 ppl that are running it and everything is fine. I know 2 people that switched to it and it didnt pan out so well. you see them odds that i personally experienced? You still havn't gave the answer to "what am i supposed to do with a 570hp e85 street car, that actually drives to the track, and actually drives states away and actually is a real car and not a trailer/track only queen"? You keep questioning "why don't more people switch to it" why dont you drive behind me with a gas tanker and i will gladly switch to it no problem. My best friend just switched to it...he likes it but just tried to drive 1 hour away and it was hell. Car makes 626whp. When you actually drive your car, maybe that will answer some of your questions. I try to give you some ideas as to why people dont but you get bent out of shape every time. MY experience is: May 22 3:36pm. (slick compacts forum) Miguel: im running e85 i guess. I heard you switch back to pump. ME:"muah, uses **** ton of gas, i dont feel like driving to oberlin every day just to get gas. I can make the same HP im trying to achieve on pump and just as safe. Miguel: Yea sucks oberlin is the closest place almost 30min away. Im going to try it out for a little bit.

bewtew

iTrader: (7)

i know a few ppl that run e85 on their rotarys and they love it. the only reason why i didnt switch a long time a go is because where i used to live the nearest gas station was 25 miles away. i moved and now the nearest gas station is 5 miles away and a bunch of gas stations carry it. i can't imaging driving 30 mins to get gas.. that would suck!

Railgun

I've driven more than an hour away too and it was fine. What was hell about it?

Ok, so I don't know where Oberlin is in relation to you, but I'm guessing it's not convenient. However, I think you're shooting yourself in the foot here.

I'm assuming that you're not getting too lofty in your HP goals. Based on your statement, I have to ask, why did you switch in the first place? It's pretty common knowledge that E85 requires much more injector than normal fuel, so this couldn't have come as a surprise.

I also agree that most if not all fuel components have been manufactured in such a way that worrying about alcohol usage is irrelevant. It's been that way since the late 80s.

As mentioned in other threads (perhaps even this one) it's not for everyone based solely on availability. However, if you are in an area where it is available, there's nothing wrong with making it a daily driver. It's not like you create this 600+HP machine and are limited to driving it on weekends. My car has been a weekend/fair weather driver and track day car for 7+ years. It makes sense for me to do it. Yes, long trips can be called into question, but in my case, it was the first one I had done and didn't have its mileage set yet.

It's what you make of it. To say that E85 isn't worth it though...well...its potential I think outweighs its drawbacks.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

I can't agree more. Living in central IA, theirs a E85 pumps all over the place. It's very readily available here.

just startn, you've moved from complaining to eroding gas lines, to needing bigger injectors, to availability. And your friend is retarded for making a hour long trip with the car set on a high boost setting. No one drives their car at full boost on the street. They made high and low boost settings on boost controllers for a reason.

For what it costs, E85 is magic juice to rotaries. Who cares if it uses two times more, it costs half of what 87 does and is MUCH safer for the motor.

I plan on installing a Walbro in my 84 GTI and running E85 in it as a DD fuel with no other changes because its so common here. I HIGHLY doubt i'll run into issues, but if I do, ill report them here.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I drive my car almost every day.
My fuel mileage actually increased when I converted to E85. This wasn't because of the E85 tho. It was because of the injectors. I was able to fine tune them to the point my consumption was reduced compared to gas.
My car is pumping out over 600 RWHP now, and it is doing it much safer than using gas.
I test E85 every time I get it and it is always at least 90% ethanol. Usually 93%.
It is MAGIC JUICE to say the least.
I am VERY happy with it and would recommend it to everybody that has the resources to do so.

just startn

iTrader: (33)

Had to drive 45min out of his way to get back home just to get to the gas station.


QUOTE=Railgun;10635859]It's what you make of it. To say that E85 isn't worth it though...well...its potential I think outweighs its drawbacks.[/QUOTE] I NEVER said its not worth it. If i had a track only car i would run it.

just startn

iTrader: (33)

Low boost? is there a such thing .

just startn

iTrader: (33)

Look it's plain and simple. E85 is not for everyone. I dont understand why you don't understand....the ******* nearest gas station is 30min away!!! It may be good for people that have a gas station on every corner. Don't ask "i wonder why everyone don't run it" use common scence. There should be no arguing about it. there should be no bickering, but were on rx7club and some people have one track minds. Put a damn E85 Pump at my house and i will GLADLY PROUDLY, run it... Im sure my current city isn't the only city in the world without E85. I can count off the top of my head 6 cars that I , ME, built that have over 600hp and on pump gas and has been on the same engine for 1,2,3 years. I see nothing wrong with that but of course you will.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Man! What a hot head.....
Of course I know it isnt for everyone and even if you live in close peroximity to a E85 pump, it still might not be for you. Like I said, it is expensive to convert it over, but if you wanna go fast, you have to pay. I don't care if what kind of fuel you run, it cost $$$$ to go fast.
I initially got interested in E85 about 5 years ago when a pysicist friend of mine converted his 3 rotor to it. I wondered why he chose E85 and he began explaining the cooling properities and the availabilty of it to me. I have a pump 4 miles away.
I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND WHY MORE PEOPLE DONT USE IT! Don't freak out over that statement. It's really OK if you disagree.
All I go by is truth and arithmatic. The facts do support it's a perfect fuel for the rotary.
The key to high power fuels is the specific energy that is available during combustion. This is not something that should be confused with the heating or calorific value (the heat generated by burning a test sample). For instance normal gasoline has a typical heating value of about 43 whereas for ethanol the figure is only around 27.1. Taken at face value ethanol is therefore obviously a very poor fuel so there must be other reasons why it can produce more power than gasoline from an engine. The answer is that the specific energy, not the heat value, determines the potential for a fuel to generate power. If more fuel can be burnt effectively with a given amount of air then more power will result, but this should not be taken as meaning that just adding more fuel necessarily always means more power. The stoichiometric (chemically correct) air/fuel (A/F) ratio for gasoline is approximately 14.7:1 but best power is achieved at richer A/F ratios around 12.7:1. This is partly because of the charge cooling effect of the extra fuel and also because the presence of slight excess fuel means all the air in the charge will be burnt. Further enrichment beyond this point will cause power to fall. With ethanol the stoichiometric A/F ratio is 9.0:1, therefore it is possible to burn more fuel and the specific energy of the charge will increase accordingly. Maximum power is obtainable at the very rich A/F ratio of around 6:1 so the usable specific energy (12.7 / 6 * 27.1 = 57.4) is much higher than gasoline, although of course fuel consumption will be dramatically increased. Ethanol has an octane rating in excess of 110 RON permitting use of higher compression ratios or higher boost pressures.

Another property of a fuel is it's specific heat of vaporization or how much heat it will take to vaporize a given amount of fuel. For gasoline it is 140 and for ethanol it is 361. The amount of heat removed for ethanol is (12.7 / 6 * 361 / 140 = 5.4) times better than gasoline. To put a temperature value to these numbers, gasoline will lower the intake charge temperature by 50F while ethanol will lower the intake charge temperature by 270F.

Also there is a guy on this forum that swears by E85 as much as I do. His name is Crispeed. Some of you might have heard of him?

Railgun

Just to play devil's advocate, it's not really a statement that's subject to disagreement. Nor is it really difficult to understand why. It's pretty simple...

1) Availability. We know it's not overly wide spread. Ovbiously that would cause some issues.

2) Potential conversion costs. More than likely those that would convert would need to enlarge their injectors and/or pump.

3) Effort. There are many that may be running moderate HP and don't need it, so why do it?