haydenw

Running 4 x id2000 injectors and having blocking issues, first time we had problems we were running e98 and after 1 dyno session and 1 week later sitting there it was no good, pulled them out and cleaned and they came back good. So upgraded fuel filters switched to e85 then had no probs for quite a while , car sat for 2 months now the injectors are blocked bad this time , 1 injector wont even open. We running castrol r30 premix and there is a lot of crystal residue in the fuel rail and lines . I have seen the same residue in methanol drag cars if they have been sitting a while.
Anyone else having problems? I think if it was used more often you dont have a chance of the crystal residue builup.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I start my car at least once a week, even in the Winter.
Did you check your gas tank? That might be where the problem lies?

haydenw

Thanks for the suggestion but i dont think so because when the car was running it was fine , no change of tune was needed but as soon as the car sits a while something is happining to the fuel.
Could it maybe be a chemical reaction to the premix? Or a chemical reaction to the alloy? Ive seen a few places saying you have to hard anodise fuel rails but what for i dont know. Ive seen e98 take the lining off rubber/braided lines causing like a tar like substance
What ever it is its crystallizing and you can rub it in your fingers and it crumbles away.

Ive seen a thread on Ausrotary about the same problems

AusRotary.com • View topic - e85 problems - injectors blocking up

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Check your gas tank. I bet there is sediment at the bottom of it.

mikey13b

I was going to mention that thread on Ausrotary as well. It's so annoying when threads just die and no solution has been given...

BurntOrangeT2

iTrader: (30)

Might find some answers here.

Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

given the end result from blocked or partially blocked injectors this is an important thread.

the Paul Yaw article should be required reading, thanks for the link BurntOrange.

i have already experienced what water can do to an injector. my prior AI setup used EV14 injectors and sat for a month w a combo of water/meth. after experiencing some unexpected knock readings at 14 psi i dug into the system and found one of the AI injectors entirely plugged and the other almost shut down.

given injectors need to operate at an almost insane precision the consequences of that precision being modified by water can be catastrophic.

i ran my AI thru injectors a couple of years ago and it did work. at that time the injectant was 100% meth. i can only conclude when i switched to 25% water 75% meth that the addition of the water did me in.

while it is no doubt possible to successfully deal w the issue by running the engine periodically another solution, while more expensive, might be worth consideration... the FFS.

many of us run 'dual purpose" FDs. street and track. gasoline makes the most sense for street. E85 for track.

not only does the FFS enable this setup but it also provides the answer to the always varying ethanol content as well as solving the alcohol rust problem.

while exploiting the FFS setup to its fullest requires a gas and E85 map the investment should pay a handsome return since it delivers a trifecta:

1. run the proper fuel for the application (street/track)

2. auto-adapt to E85, E80, E70, E60 E.... (really important)

3. allows easy purging of the water from the fuel system by a switch to gas

viewed long term the FFS setup, an ECU that can manage it, and some additional gas/E85 tuning might be a very positive investment.

howard

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Run it on gasoline.

Here's something you might find interesting. GM (well, Saab which is now defunct) had a turbo port injected E85 engine program in Europe. They found nasty injector buildup after sustained use of E85, especially in a lot of low-load driving. In that case it turns out that it wasn't rust. It was an additive called PIB from the gasoline portion of the fuel that was causing the deposits.

They tried special E85 blends ordered from a lab, but found that it was not feasible to get a blend which didn't somehow contain the PIB additive. Somewhat counter-intuitively, running it on gasoline occasionally would clear up the blockage quickly.

haydenw

Interesting really ! I was aware the fuel is hygroscopic but didnt really think of the small amount of rust that would cause an effect but it all makes sense.

Has anyone heard issues with the piston boys and E85?

Here in NZ ethanol is only really available via drum. I am considering putting a FF sensor in and tuning for both petrol and e85 which hopefully wiill help with the issue. We have a very humid environment which obviously isn't going to help.

WLD 07

Curious if you found the problem causing the blocked injectors with E85 ?

Zenki FC3S

In the article paul yaw wrote, he explains how the ethanol isnt corrosive, but that its affinity to water causes the pintle and ball of the injector to rust, due to the iron content of those components

haydenw

No not yet.
The car is off the road and still has the motor out. One of the injectors were so blocked that it wont even open. It has to be from corrosion/water.

PDF

How about switching to 98 and water injection?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

I have run e99 in a few cars with id 2000 and some of the cars sit untouched for 3 months at a time and start up straight away.

Are you running filters in the injectors? This seems to be crucial with these injectors.
Are you running good filters on the post fuel pump supply? we run 2 10 micron filters in series.

Neutron

iTrader: (10)

I believe the ID2000 come with a 7 micron filter from the factory? That would definitely clog all the time of you were running a fuel filter that has a higher micro rating then that. I was told to alway runa fuel filter that is lower then the internal filter on the injector. I'm using the bigger Fuel Labs 6 micron E85 compatible fuel filter and have not had a problem. My car has been down for upgrades 3 times, each over 3 months, with no problems since I've had the fuel filter installed.

haydenw

Done it then switched to ethanol

haydenw

Yip running filters in the injectors, running 1 40 micron and 1 10 micron in series.
The residue/crystals that was left in the fuel rail and injector filter baskets were that of what is like if methanol is left to sit and not drained. It has to be water as ive tested the injectors on a flow bench and the spray pattern on a couple of them are quite bad compared to new and 1 doesnt open at all. Ive tried back flushing,ultrasonic bath and none of the injectors improved at all.
I will try the 2 8 micron fuel lab filters and clean out fuel tank and all lines etc , will also be installing a flex fuel sensor so i can run a mix of petrol as well to help flush the lines when the car is about to sit for a while.

haydenw

I will give them a go thanks.