AEM Here is my dyno tuned map and some tech notes
06-06-05, 04:51 PM
#1
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Here is my dyno tuned map and some tech notes
Disclaimer: This is a calibration file based on a specific configuration. Use at your own risk. Read my setup VERY carefully and make the necessary changes before applying the calibration.
Mods:
850/1600 injectors, Denso fuel pump (Supra), Idle fuel pressure =45 psi, Apex-i RX6B turbo kit, large FMIC, high flow cat, Greddy PE catback, stock engine internals (no porting), HKS twin power ign amp, Blitz SBC-id boost controller (12, 15, and 18 psi), stock fuel control system (still using the fuel resistor).
Sensors:
AEM wideband O2, 3.5 bar MAP sensor, all others are stock.
Correctors:
Barometric fuel correction is turned on, Intake air temp correction is on, coolant correction is on, O2 feed back is not yet. Injector staging is calibrated to output equal pri and sec duty above 4700 rpm. Ignition difference map is calibrated to 15 deg split at idle up to 5 deg split at higher rpms.
Note:
The dyno numbers are not SAE corrected (they should be higher due to the relative humidity and AIT).
Idle 12.8-13.4 A/F, cruising 13.5 A/F
12psi -- 312 WHP 266.4 Torque, 11.5 A/F
15psi -- 338 WHP 302 Torque, 11.2 A/F
18psi -- 373 WHP 345 Torque, 11.2 A/F
Mods:
850/1600 injectors, Denso fuel pump (Supra), Idle fuel pressure =45 psi, Apex-i RX6B turbo kit, large FMIC, high flow cat, Greddy PE catback, stock engine internals (no porting), HKS twin power ign amp, Blitz SBC-id boost controller (12, 15, and 18 psi), stock fuel control system (still using the fuel resistor).
Sensors:
AEM wideband O2, 3.5 bar MAP sensor, all others are stock.
Correctors:
Barometric fuel correction is turned on, Intake air temp correction is on, coolant correction is on, O2 feed back is not yet. Injector staging is calibrated to output equal pri and sec duty above 4700 rpm. Ignition difference map is calibrated to 15 deg split at idle up to 5 deg split at higher rpms.
Note:
The dyno numbers are not SAE corrected (they should be higher due to the relative humidity and AIT).
Idle 12.8-13.4 A/F, cruising 13.5 A/F
12psi -- 312 WHP 266.4 Torque, 11.5 A/F
15psi -- 338 WHP 302 Torque, 11.2 A/F
18psi -- 373 WHP 345 Torque, 11.2 A/F
06-27-05, 07:21 AM
#2
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Several things that I see with your map:
- fuel cut is BEFORE the ignition cut - engine will lean out, and it will blow up in a matter of weeks, if you hit the rev limiter constantly
- you might want to set your fuel pump prime to 2 sec or whatever, it starts better
You might try boost comping the map so your afrs will be flat and consistenst at all boost levels.
It looks really good otherwise.
- fuel cut is BEFORE the ignition cut - engine will lean out, and it will blow up in a matter of weeks, if you hit the rev limiter constantly
- you might want to set your fuel pump prime to 2 sec or whatever, it starts better
You might try boost comping the map so your afrs will be flat and consistenst at all boost levels.
It looks really good otherwise.
Originally Posted by Trexthe3rd
Disclaimer: This is a calibration file based on a specific configuration. Use at your own risk. Read my setup VERY carefully and make the necessary changes before applying the calibration.
Mods:
850/1600 injectors, Denso fuel pump (Supra), Idle fuel pressure =45 psi, Apex-i RX6B turbo kit, large FMIC, high flow cat, Greddy PE catback, stock engine internals (no porting), HKS twin power ign amp, Blitz SBC-id boost controller (12, 15, and 18 psi), stock fuel control system (still using the fuel resistor).
Sensors:
AEM wideband O2, 3.5 bar MAP sensor, all others are stock.
Correctors:
Barometric fuel correction is turned on, Intake air temp correction is on, coolant correction is on, O2 feed back is not yet. Injector staging is calibrated to output equal pri and sec duty above 4700 rpm. Ignition difference map is calibrated to 15 deg split at idle up to 5 deg split at higher rpms.
Note:
The dyno numbers are not SAE corrected (they should be higher due to the relative humidity and AIT).
Idle 12.8-13.4 A/F, cruising 13.5 A/F
12psi -- 312 WHP 266.4 Torque, 11.5 A/F
15psi -- 338 WHP 302 Torque, 11.2 A/F
18psi -- 373 WHP 345 Torque, 11.2 A/F
Mods:
850/1600 injectors, Denso fuel pump (Supra), Idle fuel pressure =45 psi, Apex-i RX6B turbo kit, large FMIC, high flow cat, Greddy PE catback, stock engine internals (no porting), HKS twin power ign amp, Blitz SBC-id boost controller (12, 15, and 18 psi), stock fuel control system (still using the fuel resistor).
Sensors:
AEM wideband O2, 3.5 bar MAP sensor, all others are stock.
Correctors:
Barometric fuel correction is turned on, Intake air temp correction is on, coolant correction is on, O2 feed back is not yet. Injector staging is calibrated to output equal pri and sec duty above 4700 rpm. Ignition difference map is calibrated to 15 deg split at idle up to 5 deg split at higher rpms.
Note:
The dyno numbers are not SAE corrected (they should be higher due to the relative humidity and AIT).
Idle 12.8-13.4 A/F, cruising 13.5 A/F
12psi -- 312 WHP 266.4 Torque, 11.5 A/F
15psi -- 338 WHP 302 Torque, 11.2 A/F
18psi -- 373 WHP 345 Torque, 11.2 A/F
10-08-05, 01:06 PM
#3
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Might want to check out those Staged Injector settings... you've got the staged flow primary ratio at -67%, meaning they're bigger than the secondaires. The correct value would be 53.1% for your injectors. Don't change it, though, unless you're prepared to retune your fuel map. You're really not using the secondaries to their potential with those settings.
10-11-05, 11:03 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Hyperite
Might want to check out those Staged Injector settings... you've got the staged flow primary ratio at -67%, meaning they're bigger than the secondaires. The correct value would be 53.1% for your injectors. Don't change it, though, unless you're prepared to retune your fuel map. You're really not using the secondaries to their potential with those settings.
850cc*2 + 1600cc*2 = 4900cc total flow
3200cc/4900cc = 65.3% (ratio of secondary to primary total flow)
As my log file indicates, my injector duty cycle is split 50/50 at high rpms, which is exactly what I want.
10-12-05, 04:59 AM
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onefastrx7, you are wrong about fuel cut. it is working better if you have fuel cut before ignition cut, overwise you will have backfires in the exhaust. check how AEM is managing rev limiters. with fuel cut option aem just disables injectors one by one unless rpm stops growing. It is not decreases fuel but completly shuts off injectors. No fuel = no problem.
Trexthe3rd, injector split should correspond air split. secondary ports are twice bigger than primary on most rotary engines, thus the best ratio is 60/40 at WOT. overwise you will have poor air/fuel mix and your o2 sensor will show incorrect and unstable data.
this is a disadvantage of the AEM that they have just boost/rpm staged injection map and no throttle dependance. stock rx7 throttle body opens secondary ports with some offset in relation to primary and it is completly closed at zero and low throttle conditions.
Trexthe3rd, injector split should correspond air split. secondary ports are twice bigger than primary on most rotary engines, thus the best ratio is 60/40 at WOT. overwise you will have poor air/fuel mix and your o2 sensor will show incorrect and unstable data.
this is a disadvantage of the AEM that they have just boost/rpm staged injection map and no throttle dependance. stock rx7 throttle body opens secondary ports with some offset in relation to primary and it is completly closed at zero and low throttle conditions.
Last edited by 20bfd3s; 10-12-05 at 05:04 AM.
10-12-05, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Trexthe3rd
Actually if the fuel diff map function is checked then the stage ration isn't used at all. As for the ratios in the map, I have 0% for low rpm idle and cruising (using only the primaries), at wot the ratio increases to 65.2%.
850cc*2 + 1600cc*2 = 4900cc total flow
3200cc/4900cc = 65.3% (ratio of secondary to primary total flow)
As my log file indicates, my injector duty cycle is split 50/50 at high rpms, which is exactly what I want.
850cc*2 + 1600cc*2 = 4900cc total flow
3200cc/4900cc = 65.3% (ratio of secondary to primary total flow)
As my log file indicates, my injector duty cycle is split 50/50 at high rpms, which is exactly what I want.
Originally Posted by AEM Manual
Staged Flow Ratio
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
= 850*2 / 1600*2
= .53125
And it is used ESPECIALLY with the diff map. Change the value and go for a drive if you don't believe me.
10-15-05, 10:57 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Hyperite
ratio = Primary*qty / Seconday*qty
= 850*2 / 1600*2
= .53125
And it is used ESPECIALLY with the diff map. Change the value and go for a drive if you don't believe me.
= 850*2 / 1600*2
= .53125
And it is used ESPECIALLY with the diff map. Change the value and go for a drive if you don't believe me.
Here is the excerpt from the AEM user's manual on Staged Ratio calculation:
So for our example 4 cylinder with 240cc primaries, we plan to add two 720cc staged
(units do not matter). The equation is as follows:
Staged Flow Ratio = (4*240)/(2*720)*100 - 100 = -33.33
For my car:
Staged Flow Ratio = (2*850)/(2*1600)*100-100 = -46.875
I used -46.90 in my calibration
And here is the excerpt from the AEM user's manual on Staged Injector Fuel Diff Map:
The "Fuel Difference Map" allows you to specify what percentage of fuel should be delivered via the staged injectors. The number entered into this map is the percentage of total fuel that will be delivered through the staged injectors.
Staged injectors = Secondary injectors, where as the Main Injectors = Primary injectors. So my original calculation is absolutely correct:
850cc*2 + 1600cc*2 = 4900cc total flow
3200cc/4900cc = 65.3% (ratio of secondary to total flow)
If the setup is correct, the primary and secondary injector duty cycle should be equal at WOT. Here is a log file plot of my car on a typical run.
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...hmentid=136381
Please feel free to show us a plot of your injector (pri and sec) duty cycle and prove me wrong.
Last edited by Trexthe3rd; 10-15-05 at 11:03 PM.
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10-16-05, 07:54 PM
#8
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I never had issue with the fuel difference map, I agree with the calculation of that. It was the staged flow ratio calculation that I'm trying to wrap my mind around.
Ok let's figure this out together as I'm questioning AEM's ability to write a user manual right now. What I quoted before was from the user manual, but seems there's a lot of variance in what they say:
OK, the last formula (help file formula) doesn't really make sense because dividing the number of injectors by flow rate, and comparing the ratio of primary to secondary would give a heavier bias to the type of injectors with the largest number (ie- 4 primary, 2 secondary of equal sizes would yield a ratio of 100%. Which is nonsense, and goes above 100% when the secondary injectors are larger). But just for fun, here's the calculation (using stock numbers for every case
Staged Flow Ratio = ((2/550)/(2/850)*100)-100 = 54.5454
-------------------------
The description fields with examples of secondaries that flow 3x as much as primaries = 33% makes sense, and the formula to give such results would be:
Staged Flow Ratio = (#_pri * flow_pri) / (#_sec * flow_sec) * 100
example = (2 * 100) / (2 * 300) * 100 = 33.3333
stock = (2 * 550) / (2 * 850) * 100 = 64.7059
This is the formula that would yield 100% flow ratio with equal sized and number injectors as well:
(2 * 100) / (2 * 100) * 100 = 100
--------------------------
The manual forumla doesn't make enough sense because it allows for negative numbers even though it says "secondaries must flow more than primaries" and "equal injectors would be 100%"
Staged Flow Ratio = ((number of primary injectors x primary flow rate) / (number of secondary injectors x secondary flow rate) x 100) - 100
stock = (2 * 550) / (2 * 850) * 100 - 100 = -35.2941
equal sized and numberd = ( 2 * 100)/(2*100)*100-100=0
----------------------------
Now it specifies that this field is the ratio of total primary flow to total secondary flow, which yields the multiplying without subtracting 100 formula.
And an aside about fuel difference map so we're on the same page about that is that the stock number should be (2*850) / (2*550 + 2*850) * 100 = 60.7143
Ok let's figure this out together as I'm questioning AEM's ability to write a user manual right now. What I quoted before was from the user manual, but seems there's a lot of variance in what they say:
Originally Posted by AEMPro User Guide V2.0.pdf
Staged Flow Ratio
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
Originally Posted by AEMPro User Guide V2.0.pdf
The flow rate difference between the primary and staged injectors is necessary to accurately distribute the required fuel between the two different delivery systems. It represents the percent of primary injection time needed to flow an equivalent amount of fuel from the secondary injectors and is entered in the Staged Flow Ratio option. Staged Flow Ratio = ((number of primary injectors x primary flow rate) / (number of secondary injectors x secondary flow rate) x 100) - 100 Remember, this is not simply the flow ratio between the 2 different injectors, it factors in the number of injectors as well. This number can range from -100 to +100.
Originally Posted by AEMPro 3.18R29 Help
Staged Flow Ratio
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
Units: %
Description: Multiplier for staged injection. This tells the EMS the flow rate difference between the secondary injectors versus the primary injectors. If you have the same number & same size of secondary injectors as your primaries, this value is 100%. If you have secondary injectors that flow 3 times the primaries, the value is 33%. If you have 4 times secondaries, but only 2 (on a 4 cyl), the value should be 50%. Remember to account for the total primary flow rate (flow x number of injectors) and the total secondary flow rate (flow x number of injectors). This value must always be 100% or less, i.e. the secondaries must flow as much or more than the primaries.
Originally Posted by AEMPro 3.18R29 Help
The flow rate difference between the primary and staged injectors is necessary to accurately distribute the required fuel between the two different delivery systems. It represents the percent of primary injection time needed to flow an equivalent amount of fuel from the secondary injectors and is entered in the Staged Flow Ratio option.
Staged Flow Ratio = ((number of primary injectors / primary flow rate) / (number of secondary injectors / secondary flow rate) x 100) - 100
Remember, this is not simply the flow ratio between the 2 different injectors, it factors in the number of injectors as well. This number can range from -100 to +100.
Staged Flow Ratio = ((number of primary injectors / primary flow rate) / (number of secondary injectors / secondary flow rate) x 100) - 100
Remember, this is not simply the flow ratio between the 2 different injectors, it factors in the number of injectors as well. This number can range from -100 to +100.
Staged Flow Ratio = ((2/550)/(2/850)*100)-100 = 54.5454
-------------------------
The description fields with examples of secondaries that flow 3x as much as primaries = 33% makes sense, and the formula to give such results would be:
Staged Flow Ratio = (#_pri * flow_pri) / (#_sec * flow_sec) * 100
example = (2 * 100) / (2 * 300) * 100 = 33.3333
stock = (2 * 550) / (2 * 850) * 100 = 64.7059
This is the formula that would yield 100% flow ratio with equal sized and number injectors as well:
(2 * 100) / (2 * 100) * 100 = 100
--------------------------
The manual forumla doesn't make enough sense because it allows for negative numbers even though it says "secondaries must flow more than primaries" and "equal injectors would be 100%"
Staged Flow Ratio = ((number of primary injectors x primary flow rate) / (number of secondary injectors x secondary flow rate) x 100) - 100
stock = (2 * 550) / (2 * 850) * 100 - 100 = -35.2941
equal sized and numberd = ( 2 * 100)/(2*100)*100-100=0
----------------------------
Now it specifies that this field is the ratio of total primary flow to total secondary flow, which yields the multiplying without subtracting 100 formula.
And an aside about fuel difference map so we're on the same page about that is that the stock number should be (2*850) / (2*550 + 2*850) * 100 = 60.7143
10-16-05, 10:29 PM
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Note to readers, we agreed upon the calculation:
Staged ratio: (# of Primary injectors * flow of one primary injector) / (# of Secondary injectors * flow of one secondary injector) * 100 - 100
On a stock car, this value is -35.2941
Also agreed upon was that the AEM manual is misleading, poorly written, and has many typos/misprints.
Staged ratio: (# of Primary injectors * flow of one primary injector) / (# of Secondary injectors * flow of one secondary injector) * 100 - 100
On a stock car, this value is -35.2941
Also agreed upon was that the AEM manual is misleading, poorly written, and has many typos/misprints.
10-21-05, 04:50 PM
#12
I'm one of those ppl who upgrade something, and while im upgrading that i my as well do this. Then i have a whole pile of parts. And the AEM was one of them.
But it is going in real soon, as soon as i install the dual fuel pumps and FC1000, then tuning here i come.
Who tuned yours?
But it is going in real soon, as soon as i install the dual fuel pumps and FC1000, then tuning here i come.
Who tuned yours?
10-23-05, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 20bfd3s
onefastrx7, you are wrong about fuel cut. it is working better if you have fuel cut before ignition cut, overwise you will have backfires in the exhaust. check how AEM is managing rev limiters. with fuel cut option aem just disables injectors one by one unless rpm stops growing. It is not decreases fuel but completly shuts off injectors. No fuel = no problem.
Trexthe3rd, injector split should correspond air split. secondary ports are twice bigger than primary on most rotary engines, thus the best ratio is 60/40 at WOT. overwise you will have poor air/fuel mix and your o2 sensor will show incorrect and unstable data.
this is a disadvantage of the AEM that they have just boost/rpm staged injection map and no throttle dependance. stock rx7 throttle body opens secondary ports with some offset in relation to primary and it is completly closed at zero and low throttle conditions.
Trexthe3rd, injector split should correspond air split. secondary ports are twice bigger than primary on most rotary engines, thus the best ratio is 60/40 at WOT. overwise you will have poor air/fuel mix and your o2 sensor will show incorrect and unstable data.
this is a disadvantage of the AEM that they have just boost/rpm staged injection map and no throttle dependance. stock rx7 throttle body opens secondary ports with some offset in relation to primary and it is completly closed at zero and low throttle conditions.
I like to set the first to be a soft ign cut, and then a hard fuel cut, like 200rpms later. If you do not believe me, do a datalog with hittind the revlimiter repeatedly, and look at your afrs.
10-27-05, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by onefastrx7
I have seen many engines blown up because the fuel cut was first, and it was leaning out the cyl at redline and full boost. Escpecially drift cars.
I like to set the first to be a soft ign cut, and then a hard fuel cut, like 200rpms later. If you do not believe me, do a datalog with hittind the revlimiter repeatedly, and look at your afrs.
I like to set the first to be a soft ign cut, and then a hard fuel cut, like 200rpms later. If you do not believe me, do a datalog with hittind the revlimiter repeatedly, and look at your afrs.
o2 sensor measures quantity of o2, so more fresh air -> leaner mix.
its same for ignition cut.
i tuned my cars in this way and never had a problem.
but if something is configured wrong like injector phasing and advance map then there might be a problem.
this is no question that ignition cut is more reliable.
i just dont like that backfire and prefer to setup everything precisely...
Last edited by 20bfd3s; 10-27-05 at 03:33 PM.
05-15-11, 10:05 AM
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Why are you still using V1.11? There are a lot of good updated tables in v1.19.
I noticed you can change your Microbit/sec number about 15uSec. It may not be a big difference but every little bit helps. you should really get rid of the baro com and switch to the boost comp method. you can get your microbit/sec numbers in to the 40's. I have a calculator for converting fuel maps. its not quick but it only take about 10-15 min.
I'm surprised your crank injector time table is as low as it is. you might have an easier starting if you try numbers in the 80's. it may be because you have crank inject all on. which you shouldn't. secondaries don't get air flow till about 30-35%.
Your rev limiter won't work if you retard rev limit number is as high as it is. That is a hysteresis number. it needs to be set lower then your lowest rev limit number. also, your rev limiter wont work if you don't have the wizard turned on. which it doesn't look like you do.
EB Turbo
I noticed you can change your Microbit/sec number about 15uSec. It may not be a big difference but every little bit helps. you should really get rid of the baro com and switch to the boost comp method. you can get your microbit/sec numbers in to the 40's. I have a calculator for converting fuel maps. its not quick but it only take about 10-15 min.
I'm surprised your crank injector time table is as low as it is. you might have an easier starting if you try numbers in the 80's. it may be because you have crank inject all on. which you shouldn't. secondaries don't get air flow till about 30-35%.
Your rev limiter won't work if you retard rev limit number is as high as it is. That is a hysteresis number. it needs to be set lower then your lowest rev limit number. also, your rev limiter wont work if you don't have the wizard turned on. which it doesn't look like you do.
EB Turbo
06-07-11, 01:34 AM
#18
is far a rev limiter goes it always better to ignition cut if you can.
as far as the staged injection goes it really don't matter if you have the max primary duty % set say you set it at 60% so when they his 60% of their flow they will no longer flow any more so then the secondary s pick it up and flow more. so in reality if you have the safe guards that aem offers turned on and tuned and your not running your injectors above 90% duty who really cares what the staged injection percentages are at.
V 1.19 has many updates. to this day i dont understand why people dont update the firmware and software THATS WHY THEY PUT IT OUT THERE.
ALSO aem offers great BASE maps that cuts all the tuning and messing around down to a minimum.
as far as the staged injection goes it really don't matter if you have the max primary duty % set say you set it at 60% so when they his 60% of their flow they will no longer flow any more so then the secondary s pick it up and flow more. so in reality if you have the safe guards that aem offers turned on and tuned and your not running your injectors above 90% duty who really cares what the staged injection percentages are at.
V 1.19 has many updates. to this day i dont understand why people dont update the firmware and software THATS WHY THEY PUT IT OUT THERE.
ALSO aem offers great BASE maps that cuts all the tuning and messing around down to a minimum.
06-30-11, 11:30 PM
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excellent information thank you, which modification should i make to this map if I'm using the same fuel system and ignition (except that I'm using the dual walbro fuel pump) but I'm using a Garrett gt42 turbo) and i really don't want to blow my engine i just want to run 10psi? thank you
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