AEM AEM-EMS + RX-7 TT = Dead Horse ????????
06-28-06, 03:55 PM
#27
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Another eXPLODED mOTOR
I guess I am at a loss as to why the EMS unit would be the reason for "Another Exploded Motor"
I am not throwing stones,I just want to discuss your statment.
Are you insinuating the EMS is somehow faulty in the way it applies the maps you or your tuner create?
Or the EMS does something wrong all by itself that causes the motor to Explode?
In my past expirence with Computers and EMS units of any kind they only do what you program or told them to do,
If you program an improper A/F ratio than the lean mixture generated more heat than the components were designed to withstand and you warp or melt some metal and the fat lady begins her song.
I guess I never would have blamed the EMS for my inability to correctly tune an engine. just like it's not my computers fault I can't spell. It's also not AEM's fault the tuner told your EMS to provide a lean mixture under some obscure load situation.
In reality tuning a map is generally creating an Air/ fuel ratio for each and every step in the RPM range that will produce the horspower / torque ratio without overheating the engine. This is generally a tedious task to do correctly and takes time to figure out each step and test it for a few different senarios like temp and barametric denisity fluxuations and create the happy medium.
Yes AEM made a few understandable blunders like following the factory wiring diagram and creating a base map that was not universal to all FD's. however they have created a product that has more potential in the hands of a talented tuner than most any other product in the price range.
If you want better techno then go MOTEC and row your own boat.
I am not throwing stones,I just want to discuss your statment.
Are you insinuating the EMS is somehow faulty in the way it applies the maps you or your tuner create?
Or the EMS does something wrong all by itself that causes the motor to Explode?
In my past expirence with Computers and EMS units of any kind they only do what you program or told them to do,
If you program an improper A/F ratio than the lean mixture generated more heat than the components were designed to withstand and you warp or melt some metal and the fat lady begins her song.
I guess I never would have blamed the EMS for my inability to correctly tune an engine. just like it's not my computers fault I can't spell. It's also not AEM's fault the tuner told your EMS to provide a lean mixture under some obscure load situation.
In reality tuning a map is generally creating an Air/ fuel ratio for each and every step in the RPM range that will produce the horspower / torque ratio without overheating the engine. This is generally a tedious task to do correctly and takes time to figure out each step and test it for a few different senarios like temp and barametric denisity fluxuations and create the happy medium.
Yes AEM made a few understandable blunders like following the factory wiring diagram and creating a base map that was not universal to all FD's. however they have created a product that has more potential in the hands of a talented tuner than most any other product in the price range.
If you want better techno then go MOTEC and row your own boat.
06-29-06, 08:24 AM
#28
I think i know a thing or two about tuning...
AEM was nicknamed "another exploded motor" many years ago before they even built ecu's.
AEM was one of the very few to have a chassis dyno in CALI years ago. John was a weber specialist. Many people went their for tuning and that name was given sportly after by a few locals.
It's funny how the name still carry's on now with their EMS.
Ideally yes an ECU should do only what you tell it to do. It's when you tell it to do something and it's not doing it and decides to do other things then it's obvious somethings wrong... AEM has made more then a few blunders...
AEM was nicknamed "another exploded motor" many years ago before they even built ecu's.
AEM was one of the very few to have a chassis dyno in CALI years ago. John was a weber specialist. Many people went their for tuning and that name was given sportly after by a few locals.
It's funny how the name still carry's on now with their EMS.
Ideally yes an ECU should do only what you tell it to do. It's when you tell it to do something and it's not doing it and decides to do other things then it's obvious somethings wrong... AEM has made more then a few blunders...
06-29-06, 02:00 PM
#29
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Don't misunderstand me I am not questioning anyones abilities or intelligence in this exchange.
I am asking if there are real documented issues with the AEM 18-3000 EMS unit going astray and causing damage or if it was just a friendly jab at AEM.
I have lots of money invested in my motor as well as my AEM equiptment and I am trying to sort out fact from fiction.
Most of the discussions I have seen have been around getting the unit to start the car and obtain a reasonable street tune. The guys with the highly modded motors seem to be able to get these things sorted out and working so it would stand to reason it should work with a mildly modded street trim motor also.
I am trying to figure out how much of the "trouble" is due to users not being able to get a grip on all the facets of tuning AEM has presented in EMS and what are actual hardware shortcomings we must watch out for in using the EMS.
Let's assume the latest base map is only suppost to get the car started and let it idle and from there on it's up to me to create the base map over using the my car and my locations atmospheric parameters.
I want to know if I assume the above do I have to look out for the AEM unit doing something totally weird all on it's own from a design flaw or a component failure or just my ability to make use of the adjustments I can now make?
I am asking if there are real documented issues with the AEM 18-3000 EMS unit going astray and causing damage or if it was just a friendly jab at AEM.
I have lots of money invested in my motor as well as my AEM equiptment and I am trying to sort out fact from fiction.
Most of the discussions I have seen have been around getting the unit to start the car and obtain a reasonable street tune. The guys with the highly modded motors seem to be able to get these things sorted out and working so it would stand to reason it should work with a mildly modded street trim motor also.
I am trying to figure out how much of the "trouble" is due to users not being able to get a grip on all the facets of tuning AEM has presented in EMS and what are actual hardware shortcomings we must watch out for in using the EMS.
Let's assume the latest base map is only suppost to get the car started and let it idle and from there on it's up to me to create the base map over using the my car and my locations atmospheric parameters.
I want to know if I assume the above do I have to look out for the AEM unit doing something totally weird all on it's own from a design flaw or a component failure or just my ability to make use of the adjustments I can now make?
07-07-06, 04:38 PM
#30
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Here are my two cents.
I have had the AEM EMS and UEGO since Tri-Point first started working with them. I blew one motor with their tuning on the AEM but I think it was due to Tri-Point's inexperience with such a sophisticated EMS.
I recall that when Steve Kan tuned my car in October of 2005 he remarked how aggressive Tri-Point had gotten with the timing among other things.
Since then I returned to Tri-Point to have my Cooling Mist WI set up installed. Reggie (Tri-Point's main mechanic) was sent to AEM for at least a week long seminar on the finer points of tuning with the AEM EMS.
Upon his return and with their new Dynapack dyno, Tri-Point seems to have it figured out very well. My car is running like a dream at ~13-14psi with 10.8 AFR's at WOT making ~335RWHP.
I love my set up and would refer anyone in or near LA with an AEM EMS to Tri-Point for all their tuning needs.
I have had the AEM EMS and UEGO since Tri-Point first started working with them. I blew one motor with their tuning on the AEM but I think it was due to Tri-Point's inexperience with such a sophisticated EMS.
I recall that when Steve Kan tuned my car in October of 2005 he remarked how aggressive Tri-Point had gotten with the timing among other things.
Since then I returned to Tri-Point to have my Cooling Mist WI set up installed. Reggie (Tri-Point's main mechanic) was sent to AEM for at least a week long seminar on the finer points of tuning with the AEM EMS.
Upon his return and with their new Dynapack dyno, Tri-Point seems to have it figured out very well. My car is running like a dream at ~13-14psi with 10.8 AFR's at WOT making ~335RWHP.
I love my set up and would refer anyone in or near LA with an AEM EMS to Tri-Point for all their tuning needs.
Last edited by stevemack; 07-07-06 at 04:43 PM.
10-15-06, 03:18 PM
#31
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My friend had an EMS unit in his car. It ran great but took him several attempts. The guy that dyno tuned his car almost had it right, he then got his mechanic to fill in the missing parameters and it ran like a champ.
11-01-06, 02:19 PM
#32
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Another thumbs-up for AEM here!
The EMS is quite complex and highly adaptable, the software is very easy to use and navigate...WHEN you know what you're doing. The startup calibrations probably wont, but all the sensor and timing setups are there...if you cant work out how much fuel and ignition you need to start an engine, you probably shouldnt be trying to start it should you.
Mine's run in now, power tuning after the next oil change...
starts first time every time, runs nice and smooth, NO HESITATION AT ALL when you fire the 1680cc secondaries, awesome injector control (idles smooth at 950 rpm at a .9lambda on 1000cc primaries)
you just gotta put the right numbers in the right squares and understand what you want to do before you go looking for the parameter to do it (it WILL be there on the AEM) and the definable knock control is the ultimate!
The EMS is quite complex and highly adaptable, the software is very easy to use and navigate...WHEN you know what you're doing. The startup calibrations probably wont, but all the sensor and timing setups are there...if you cant work out how much fuel and ignition you need to start an engine, you probably shouldnt be trying to start it should you.
Mine's run in now, power tuning after the next oil change...
starts first time every time, runs nice and smooth, NO HESITATION AT ALL when you fire the 1680cc secondaries, awesome injector control (idles smooth at 950 rpm at a .9lambda on 1000cc primaries)
you just gotta put the right numbers in the right squares and understand what you want to do before you go looking for the parameter to do it (it WILL be there on the AEM) and the definable knock control is the ultimate!
11-01-06, 08:23 PM
#33
Rotary Enthusiast
I have been running the AEM EMS with AEM widband for 2 years now. Here is my 2 cents, I spent 2 weeks reading the entire user's manual and the FI basics manual before I started configuring the EMS. It's like programming a vcr, just because a person doesn't have the aptitude to do it, it doesn't mean the vcr can't be programmed. I actually wrote the TPS fix procedure AEM is using on their forum.
Granted there is always the chance of buying a lemon, that's true for everything. God forbid I have heard of a brand new Honda being broken down within a week of purchase. If the AEM is indeed a piece of junk there wouldn't be anyone with stories of success at all, would there?
So here is the summary:
Benefits Drawbacks
AEM Flexibility Complexity
Features 2 many choices
Nice GUI Lack of support
Built in logging Lack of basemaps (this is simply due to the number of users)
PFC Robust Not flexible
Easy setup Not enough features
Time tested "OLD" technology
Support lacking expandability
Hope this helps.
Granted there is always the chance of buying a lemon, that's true for everything. God forbid I have heard of a brand new Honda being broken down within a week of purchase. If the AEM is indeed a piece of junk there wouldn't be anyone with stories of success at all, would there?
So here is the summary:
Benefits Drawbacks
AEM Flexibility Complexity
Features 2 many choices
Nice GUI Lack of support
Built in logging Lack of basemaps (this is simply due to the number of users)
PFC Robust Not flexible
Easy setup Not enough features
Time tested "OLD" technology
Support lacking expandability
Hope this helps.
11-28-06, 04:25 PM
#34
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I've owned both. The AEM unit in my car currently is about to hit the dyno. I'll post the results when I'm done. Only things I'm not overly keen on about it so far is the complexity of the drop downs. When will tuners learn to make menus that work more intuitively? The freaking OMP is beyond complex to find. My engine did go bang when we first put it together (that was from something not controlled by the ECU) but it seems to be doing fine so far this time.
04-19-11, 02:36 PM
#37
I've been helping ledgebmx on this forum with the AEM recently. It's running fine with the latest firmware. We have been setting up the advanced features like boost control and methanol control (using the nitrous control capability). You just have to make sure you understand the user's guide well.
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